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idhrendur posted:I would love to hear more. Though I'm a sucker for bug reports and an avid reader of theDailyWTF, so... This is before Christmas patch and in MP. But if you would embark your troops onto your ships using the button to do it in port, they would enter sort of a quantum state where they existed but still did not and you would not be able to interact with them and in essence that population was just gone from you. What happen was that the army would become a new army because of reasons but the host and the client would disagree what their ID was so when your client would send "Alright can you please let me do this with Army 26913?" and the host would respond "Nope because Army 26913 doesn't exist" More of a technical issue, I would need to dig into the game to refresh my memory on wonky gameplay though. Also a thing I am curious on, so many people are vocal about saying Victoria is the best game, but it doesn't have that large of a player base right? So is this sort of a 1984 situation where if asked most people will lie and say they read it? e: Don't mean specifically here but like all of Reddit, Forum, etc. The community as a large. Just a random thought that occurred to me that there might be a social pressure within the community around this just like there is with "Have you read influential book X?" Groogy fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 08:23
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Groogy posted:Also a thing I am curious on, so many people are vocal about saying Victoria is the best game, but it doesn't have that large of a player base right? So is this sort of a 1984 situation where if asked most people will lie and say they read it? I think people are so strongly attached to Victoria because it gives you a lot of things other games don't even attempt to do. EU4 is a board game, CK2 is an RPG-board game, HoI4 is a wargame, but V2 is a lot harder to pin down and describe. It also probably has the strongest simulation element of any of your games so it's sweet nectar for that crowd. Also probably the one game where the endgame feels radically different from the beginning. I think there's a genuine interest and demand for the things Victoria does and the other games don't. Maybe it's more of a niche, or it gets overhyped sometimes, but there's something real there.
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Jul 3, 2019 08:48
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Groogy posted:Also a thing I am curious on, so many people are vocal about saying Victoria is the best game, but it doesn't have that large of a player base right? So is this sort of a 1984 situation where if asked most people will lie and say they read it? i don't think many people are booting up v2 regularly anymore, but it was certainly pretty popular here after heart of darkness came out. couldn't say about how well it was received on reddit or the official forums. at this point i've played enough v2 that the jank overwhelms my enjoyment of the rest of it but i definitely enjoyed it off and on for years by the standards of pre-ck2 paradox games i don't think it has had an especially small number of players, either. probably more than ck1.
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Jul 3, 2019 08:54
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Victoria is a simulation of the Marxist-Leninist critique of imperialist capitalism, mixed with the power fantasy of being one of a few “advanced” nations that are carving up the rest of the planet. There are two other games that do this, Imperialism I and Imperialism II, and both are amazing. Partly it’s because the game fundamentally changes from beginning to end: playing through WW1 is a totally different type of game to growing your empire and deciding on Jomini or Clausewitz and building a few railroads. Very few games make the end-game play so differently from the early game, with such different concerns, and it’s awesome. Contrast with Imperator, which I enjoy a lot, but in which you’re doing the same thing for the same reasons in the endgame as at the start. It kind of inadvertently also fixes the problem with strategy games of micromanagement as you get bigger. I kind of wish Stellaris did this but it’s probably impossible while it’s being flexible enough for all different kinds of sci-fi universes.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:00
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RabidWeasel posted:Please tell me more about the latter because I haven't played CK2 for years...
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Jul 3, 2019 13:18
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The Vicky series has entered “no longer made or supported” territory and a vocal few people and disproportionate amount on this forum can not accept that. They made a second Rome game rather than touch Vicky 3. It’s not going to happen.
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Jul 3, 2019 14:10
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:The Vicky series has entered “no longer made or supported” territory and a vocal few people and disproportionate amount on this forum can not accept that. 
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Jul 3, 2019 14:15
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i don't think victoria 2 even managed to be a better game than victoria 1:r
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Jul 3, 2019 14:19
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Rynoto posted:Animal world ck2 is the BestThingEver and should be the default for everyone.  Needs more animals, though, and not just land animals. I want squid and crabs, drat it! Or more mythical creatures too, like unicorns and owlbears. gently caress yeah owlbears.
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Jul 3, 2019 14:20
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Prav posted:i don't think victoria 2 even managed to be a better game than victoria 1:r Vic 1 had its pros but the crisis system really added something to the gameplay.
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Jul 3, 2019 14:24
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Some of the fictional religions in the animal world it makes are  Such as these Polar Bears in India I found once, though I'm sure its been assigned to different things. 
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Jul 3, 2019 15:14
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the best part about the random world is that the generated religions are metal as hell more often than not
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Jul 3, 2019 15:15
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But not unbelievable: it must be remembered that Catholic Christianity makes ritual cannibalism one of its central religious rites.
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Jul 3, 2019 17:45
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Red Bones posted:Thinking of what realistically Paradox might release next instead of V3, I think a fantasy game would be interesting design-wise. I'd really like a fantasy game, and this is what I'm pulling for. Soup du Jour posted:1776-1836 This is what I'd like for a V3. It would be interesting to have a set of pre-built events for a American Revolution that failed. Maybe lots of rebels moving west into Louisiana/Mexico and trying to carve out free states ala Texas, with the 13 colonies being more likely to stagnate a bit? But, then again, I'd like HoI to be less of a wargame and span 1901-2001.  Agean90 posted:the best part about the random world is that the generated religions are metal as hell more often than not Is it just me or does nearly every random world religion get the ability to raid, which seems like it would be a huge pain in the rear end, as the age of raiding would never end even hypothetically? YF-23 posted:I think people are so strongly attached to Victoria because it gives you a lot of things other games don't even attempt to do. EU4 is a board game, CK2 is an RPG-board game, HoI4 is a wargame, but V2 is a lot harder to pin down and describe. It also probably has the strongest simulation element of any of your games so it's sweet nectar for that crowd. Also probably the one game where the endgame feels radically different from the beginning. This is one thing I do like about V2, and a big disappointment to me about Europa Universalis. Except for the fact that you can conquer territory more efficiently, late game EUIV feels an awful lot like early game EUIV and it' shouldn't. I'd really like to see a big EUIV expansion with big content and systems focused nearly entirely on the last 100 years or so of the game. There should be more to look forward to and be challenged by in the late game then just cleaning up your borders.
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Jul 3, 2019 20:38
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Chalks posted:It seems like a joke but this is actually in the base game now
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Jul 3, 2019 21:42
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Groogy posted:Also a thing I am curious on, so many people are vocal about saying Victoria is the best game, but it doesn't have that large of a player base right? So is this sort of a 1984 situation where if asked most people will lie and say they read it? I think it's just selection bias. People who identify as Paradox fans like Victoria 2 and that's what this thread is full of. Normal people who just like video games will probably only have played Stellaris and maybe a bit of HoI4/CK2/EU4 and likely wouldn't seek out broad "Paradox Grand Strategy" communities because they play lots of other games too. It's kind of like, most people have probably read/seen Hamlet/Romeo & Juliet. But if people are posting on a dedicated Shakespeare forum they have definitely read every play and also all the sonnets and probably have very strong opinions on Titus Andronicus.
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Jul 4, 2019 07:06
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Prav posted:i don't think victoria 2 even managed to be a better game than victoria 1:r Star posted:Vic 1 had its pros but the crisis system really added something to the gameplay. I've played a stupid amount of Vicky 2 and I've seen crises work as intended maaaaybe three times ever. Groogy posted:Also a thing I am curious on, so many people are vocal about saying Victoria is the best game, but it doesn't have that large of a player base right? So is this sort of a 1984 situation where if asked most people will lie and say they read it? People who played Vicky really really liked it, or hated it. If they hated it, they'll never mention it. If they really really liked it, chances are they're the most vocal on Paradox community stuff (Reddit, here, etc.). Just selection bias. That being said, I have no idea how a new Victoria would do in post-CK2 numbers. It's not really a game with popular appeal.
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Jul 4, 2019 08:11
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Beamed posted:I've played a stupid amount of Vicky 2 and I've seen crises work as intended maaaaybe three times ever. They fixed it with the last patch. Now crises don't just fizzle out if no one backs the defender, it's an auto-success instead.
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Jul 4, 2019 08:14
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:They fixed it with the last patch. Now crises don't just fizzle out if no one backs the defender, it's an auto-success instead. The Wiz+Groogs one? Maybe I should go do some more playthroughs, I only ever played with mods since it came out.
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Jul 4, 2019 08:16
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Beamed posted:The Wiz+Groogs one? Maybe I should go do some more playthroughs, I only ever played with mods since it came out. Yep that one.
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Jul 4, 2019 08:18
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The fact that Victoria attempts to simulate class/demographics and has those as its primary unit is absolutely revolutionary and key to its appeal. Like, we all love playing as a unitary nation running around painting the map, but there's something really fascinating about transforming your society at the level of its people, and as janky as the economic and political engine and sim is, it's super satisfying and totally unlike any other game. You can't just show off your empire with a map, you have to show its demographics too. Of course, it does have that appeal for the rascist nutjobs who wanna simulate ethnic cleansing, but I did find it fun to see where my demographics ended up. Imagining a world where California was 40% Dixie and 60% french or whatever and the long term implications of that was pretty fun. Not to mention what insane alt-hist scenarios you'd ever get if you did an EU4 -> Vicky simulator (which would be basically impossible without heavy user intervention).
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Jul 4, 2019 08:20
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The Cheshire Cat posted:very strong opinions on Titus Andronicus. Yes, that guy was a dick. (I know you mean the play)
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Jul 4, 2019 08:22
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is there any way to fix the UI on big monitors? I tried replaying V2 and it's just impossible
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Jul 4, 2019 08:34
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Goa Tse-tung posted:is there any way to fix the UI on big monitors? I tried replaying V2 and it's just impossible No I added Windowed Fullscreen in the Christmas patch but adding 4k support would be impossible to get to work.
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Jul 4, 2019 08:39
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So I decided to go to steamcharts* for a comparison and Not the worst for a 9 year old game that hasn't had support in years. Also lol I:R. *Steamcharts isn't the most reliable source but is the best available to us so. As a general comparison it shouldn't be too bad.
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Jul 4, 2019 09:03
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Meh I wouldn't trust charts when it comes to V2.
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Jul 4, 2019 09:15
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Paradox took a hard turn away from the simulationist bits of Vicky 2 with EU4 and HOI4 and those games are all the better for it. I think there's a really good space for a Paradox game that follows a 100 year trajectory of - phase 1) European rush for resources to fuel the industrial revolution, phase 2) Winners and losers of this race form factions depending on what they think they need to get to change the pecking order, phase 3) Crisis and world war. There can be all kinds of other things there, but the game needs to be visibly centred around that core idea.
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Jul 4, 2019 09:40
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Alchenar posted:Paradox took a hard turn away from the simulationist bits of Vicky 2 with EU4 and HOI4 and those games are all the better for it. I would love this. It’s not so much Vicky 3 specifically, it’s that it is an interesting period that would be fun to see modelled again.
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Jul 4, 2019 09:57
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E: double post
Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 09:58
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vicky2 being a mess perfectly simulates the utter mess that is the global economy
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Jul 4, 2019 14:52
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I'd prefer V3 being kept more simulationist, you guys already have all the other series
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Jul 4, 2019 15:02
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Imperator: Rome being too board-gamey pissed people off so bad that they're frantically scrambling to take out the entire mana system that Johan previously said is an integral pillar of all paradox games going forwards and will never ever change, but yeah sure doubling down on that approach (particularly in the most simulationist franchise with especially loud fans) is definitely gonna go fine. Meanwhile Stellaris getting more complex and adding simulationist elements like the population/economy overhaul has been the best thing that's ever happened to the game. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 15:23
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Crazycryodude posted:Imperator: Rome Excuse me? I missed all the Imperator: Rome stuff (not gonna buy it unless they add in a CK2 importer)- what's this all about then?
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Jul 4, 2019 15:50
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CommissarMega posted:Excuse me? I missed all the Imperator: Rome stuff (not gonna buy it unless they add in a CK2 importer)- what's this all about then? the super duper short version is that Rome has EU4's mana system, ie the civic points you spend and accumulate overtime, for basically all of it's interactions. To do pretty much anything you need to spend some of your "mana" power, with certain types being overused and some barely touched. And there's no real way to influence how you get it, so it's just an arbitrary turn timer of sorts.
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Jul 4, 2019 15:54
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Ricky is hard to go back to because of the interface and it's incredibly janky, but I still think it's my favorite paradox game. There's just so much crazy stuff you can do. Getting 100 million people in Uruguay, buying San Francisco from Mexico as Krakow and building a Jewish state in California, Unifying Italy in 1840, annexing China as the US and shutting down all the RGOs for massive immigration, unifying Africa as Traansval, invading Egypt and then selling it to the Ottomans to buy your country back as Greece or Serbia. Ricky with a better UI and more events is my dream game. I never could get into Vicky 2 for some reason. The fact that you can't manipulate POPs directly made it feel like I'm just sitting there watching and can't really affect anything.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:22
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Gamerofthegame posted:the super duper short version is that Rome has EU4's mana system, ie the civic points you spend and accumulate overtime, for basically all of it's interactions. To do pretty much anything you need to spend some of your "mana" power, with certain types being overused and some barely touched. And there's no real way to influence how you get it, so it's just an arbitrary turn timer of sorts. GEEZ that sounds tedious  And to think I was going to pick it up in a sale or something. It seems I'll just have to wait for a Stellaris-style revamp then.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:53
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The EU4 mana system is good and fine. I:R's mana is far inferior. Military Mana: you can basically ignore this and then once every few years you unlock a tradition with it. Does it even have another use? Civic Mana: you use this for almost everything, to such a degree that it becomes frankly ridiculous Religious Mana: you use this for occasionally clicking the Stability button, activating an omen every couple years, and (completely optionally it seems) converting pops to your religion Oratory Mana: I honestly don't know what this does off the top of my head and I'm not going to load the game just to find out. That I don't know what its used for immediately is a sign that maybe it's bad. Mana as a concept is absolutely 100% fine. I find the implementation of mana in I:R to just be extremely spotty and wildly unbalanced.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:57
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Ricky is hard to go back to because of the interface and it's incredibly janky, but I still think it's my favorite paradox game. There's just so much crazy stuff you can do. Getting 100 million people in Uruguay, buying San Francisco from Mexico as Krakow and building a Jewish state in California, Unifying Italy in 1840, annexing China as the US and shutting down all the RGOs for massive immigration, unifying Africa as Traansval, invading Egypt and then selling it to the Ottomans to buy your country back as Greece or Serbia. Ricky with a better UI and more events is my dream game. I never could get into Vicky 2 for some reason. The fact that you can't manipulate POPs directly made it feel like I'm just sitting there watching and can't really affect anything. I do agree that Vicky 2 does feel kind of "hands off" although I don't think directly manipulating POPs would be the way to go with it either. Vicky 2 has a perfectly good national focus system that really gets underused within the game itself (you encourage clergy in each state until you hit the 2% needed for max research output and then basically ignore it for the rest of the game) which would be a good way to handle this kind of thing.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:59
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Drone posted:The EU4 mana system is good and fine. I:R's mana is far inferior. good news is, they're literally scrapping all of this as we speak. There's a beta patch available that does away with most of that, if I understood it correctly 
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Jul 4, 2019 17:08
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Alchenar posted:Paradox took a hard turn away from the simulationist bits of Vicky 2 with EU4 and HOI4 and those games are all the better for it. The Cheshire Cat posted:I do agree that Vicky 2 does feel kind of "hands off" although I don't think directly manipulating POPs would be the way to go with it either. Vicky 2 has a perfectly good national focus system that really gets underused within the game itself (you encourage clergy in each state until you hit the 2% needed for max research output and then basically ignore it for the rest of the game) which would be a good way to handle this kind of thing. - In a freedom-loving republic it's propagandizing not just internally but also externally - boosting the desire to emigrate across the board and making the country a magnet for these immigrants, and the province a target for internal migration. Immigrants have their consciousness and militancy suppressed, because they're living the dream. - In a hardcore autocracy, there'd be little to convince people to move to the country, so you mostly just get the internal migration boost, though perhaps what immigrants you do receive would be far more likely to go to the chosen province (because your state is telling them very pointedly that that is where they're supposed to go). It'd serve a purpose in both, be more useful in the type of countries that benefited the most historically, and it'd allow a less railroady experience. Want to go full [Country] Dream? Use every focus on Encourage Immigration and see the immigrants roll in. No need to focus on craftsmen if you just steal some from other countries. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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