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Stellaris is also doing a summer beta so maybe Paradox just wants feedback to build up during the break
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Jul 4, 2019 14:03
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ilitarist posted:Let's not be too harsh on the people. Paradox is successful in large part because of people goodwill. They sell you a game that you know has hundreds of dollars worth DLC and they want you to trust them that it's not pay to play. Their games have subpar graphics and hostile UI, documentation, and tutorials - and you have to trust them that after 20 hours of getting into it and maybe watching some letsplays you'll have some fun. Even devoted fans say that their games require a lot of patches to work properly and still have a lot of bugs years after continuous support. Agreed but still, a ton of people are vocally complaining that there's no game at all in Imperator and it's only an empty shell to be filled with DLC. And I completely disagree with that. There is a game in Imperator, and it was there from 1.0 ; it was just not the game people wanted, and they're bashing it for that which is completely insane to me. It's like I buy Forza Horizon 4 and get shocked that it's missing racetracks and Formula 1 cars... it's just... not that kind of game, and everyone who looked up any info on it, knows it. IT was very, very clear that this game would have been 75% EU4 meets 25% CK2, and imo that's exactly what we got, so I'm pretty confused by the reactions. I mean I can see how people say that 75% CK2 and 25% EU4 would have been better, I might even agree on that, but it's just not what it is, and not what was advertised ... Of course I do recognize the game has flaws, and if they went in "radio silence" without telling anything about their plans I'd be very much worried believe me, but they've been even more open than they usually are, admitted their fuckups and are actively trying to make the game better... and still, even in this very thread, there's people bashing the game even harder than before. That makes me pretty confused since it seems to me, that they're doing their best and the situation will be quickly remedied (quickly in terms of game development, you can't uproot and remake one game over 2 months ... it will take 1 year or so and a couple DLC to get there IMO)
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Jul 4, 2019 14:05
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Well as I've said previously it's a first big Paradox game they published that is similar to their previous popular game. Unless CK3 will be a full version of CK2 with better UI and cadet branches added on top - you'll have the same reaction, maybe even bigger and more hostile. Or maybe it'll be fine if it's completely different so comparing CK3 to CK2 would look like comparing Strellaris to CK2.
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Jul 4, 2019 14:24
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People are complaining about Imperator because unlike CK2 or Stellaris or EU4 it's real boring. Hope this helps.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:39
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Chomp8645 posted:People are complaining about Imperator because unlike CK2 or Stellaris or EU4 it's real boring. Hope this helps. Different strokes for different folks, I guess ... I find Stellaris pretty boring, much more than Imperator, even with both in their current state 
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Jul 4, 2019 16:46
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imperator is an empty shell and wildly unfun because of that. there's not enough dlc you could shovel into that hole to fill it. and the lead dev comes across as a total prick... which is the only marginally entertaining thing about this release.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:48
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I don't think I will ever understand what the essential quality is that makes EU4 not an "empty shell" but Imperator is, but then I generally hate the concept of "flavour" as applied to Paradox games because it seems to mean "your favourite region / religion gets a button to click every 10 years which gives you disproportionately large bonuses"
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Jul 4, 2019 17:45
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What's your stance on EU4's random world? e: also re: the sudden beta, I don't think it's necessarily that concerning. Since they're doing an overhaul of something that's practically a fundamental system, getting more feedback in its earlier stages can only be a good thing, and doing that when they're all away for a month sounds like a fine time for it. Koramei fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 17:52
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Johan posted:This time we are trying something different out, to let you guys participate in the phase from alpha until release. What does this mean? So, wonky AI and placeholder art coming to your system today! This could be fun, who knows what silly bugs there are to be exploited 
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Jul 4, 2019 18:26
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RabidWeasel posted:I generally hate the concept of "flavour" as applied to Paradox games because it seems to mean "your favourite region / religion gets a button to click every 10 years which gives you disproportionately large bonuses"
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Jul 4, 2019 18:44
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RabidWeasel posted:I don't think I will ever understand what the essential quality is that makes EU4 not an "empty shell" but Imperator is, but then I generally hate the concept of "flavour" as applied to Paradox games because it seems to mean "your favourite region / religion gets a button to click every 10 years which gives you disproportionately large bonuses" It means different things that change the way you play depending on which nation you select. Picking between countries like Venice, Ottomans, Portugal, whoever in the HRE or Russia gives you a lot of difference in how you play the game. It's not about the mechanics of clicking a button every 10 years, but how that combined with the different events, governments, military, religious, alliances, expansion, trade and colonisation situation changes your experience and creates exciting stories. In Imperator you have Tribal or Mediterranean major power as the only meaningful differences and they rapidly conflate into the exact same experience by the time you hit regional power. Fellblade fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 18:44
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Koramei posted:What's your stance on EU4's random world? Generally poor because it messes up the interesting asymmetries in the map setup, but the concept is solid.
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Jul 4, 2019 18:48
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I said it earlier in the thread but there is no two experiences in Imperator as different as Portugal and Austria in EU4
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Jul 4, 2019 18:49
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AnEdgelord posted:I said it earlier in the thread but there is no two experiences in Imperator as different as Portugal and Austria in EU4 Per Paradox, this was a design goal.
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Jul 4, 2019 18:58
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TorakFade posted:Different strokes for different folks, I guess ... I find Stellaris pretty boring, much more than Imperator, even with both in their current state Different strokes for different folks sure, but when you're saying the reaction is undeserved then that certainly doesn't seem like YOU actually agree with different strokes for different folks?
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Jul 4, 2019 19:01
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I don't play colonisers or historical majors in EU4 which gives you an end experience pretty similar to what Imperator offers only Imperator has a way better map and more interesting unit balance. I do tend to forget that there's this whole part of the game which I just don't interact with and that my experience is very atypical.
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Jul 4, 2019 19:01
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reignonyourparade posted:Different strokes for different folks sure, but when you're saying the reaction is undeserved then that certainly doesn't seem like YOU actually agree with different strokes for different folks? Finding the game boring is one thing and that's perfectly legitimate, I don't want everybody to like the game unconditionally, but for example jfood posted:imperator is an empty shell and wildly unfun because of that. there's not enough dlc you could shovel into that hole to fill it. well I find that a bit harsh because there is a game there, you can argue it's not a very good game, and it can and must be improved - but still, some crazy weirdos are enjoying it  I'm playing 1.2 beta and I have to say, now I feel limited by the new mana, political influence but there's a ton more things happening, and some of the choices had pretty real consequences and were not that clear-cut, juggling loyalty, tyranny and other stuff feels impactful now. I think it works better, but I've just been playing an hour or so.
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Jul 4, 2019 19:32
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Tbh pompey is pretty fun and solid right now. Makes sense to beta cicero early, given it changes everything and will inevitably require a ton of rebalancing and they only have like two months, one of which is vacation time Imperator is already better than stellaris as an actual strategy game imo
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Jul 4, 2019 20:22
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Fuligin posted:Imperator is already better than stellaris as an actual strategy game imo Most strategy games are.
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Jul 4, 2019 20:46
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Chomp8645 posted:People are complaining about Imperator because unlike CK2 or Stellaris or EU4 it's real boring. Hope this helps. CK2 is insanely boring unless you are into role play or insane min maxing
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Jul 4, 2019 22:15
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Strange. Imperator isn't starting or downloading when I try a reinstall om the Xbox game pass app.
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Jul 4, 2019 22:27
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Fuligin posted:Tbh pompey is pretty fun and solid right now. Makes sense to beta cicero early, given it changes everything and will inevitably require a ton of rebalancing and they only have like two months, one of which is vacation time why do they only have two months?
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Jul 4, 2019 22:29
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Senor Dog posted:why do they only have two months? I think sometime in september was planned for cicero in the roadmap. I may be misremembering
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Jul 4, 2019 22:34
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Senor Dog posted:why do they only have two months? I think they indicated on their timeline that it would be a September release. Obviously that could be pushed back and it’s almost three months technically. As someone who is on the beta branch of all games at all times this is great, though. I hope they do this more often.
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Jul 4, 2019 22:35
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Senor Dog posted:why do they only have two months? Because that's when [i]they[i] arrive.
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Jul 4, 2019 22:39
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CharlestheHammer posted:CK2 is insanely boring unless you are into role play or insane min maxing Weirdly I'm too much of a min maxer for the former but not quite enough for the latter
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Jul 4, 2019 22:47
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CK2 can definitely work as a dollhouse kinda like the Sims where you're filling in the gaps with your imagination. I usually have some kind of meta story in my head while playing even if it's not always conscious, like imagining a historian telling the story of what's happening in the game from some point in the future.
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Jul 4, 2019 23:18
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Randallteal posted:CK2 can definitely work as a dollhouse kinda like the Sims where you're filling in the gaps with your imagination. I usually have some kind of meta story in my head while playing even if it's not always conscious, like imagining a historian telling the story of what's happening in the game from some point in the future. Yeah that’s what i mean by roleplaying, as far as an actual game goes it’s kind of a mess and not very good. But the role play poo poo is also what makes it unique so I can’t blame anyone for liking it for that
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Jul 4, 2019 23:26
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ilitarist posted:Let's not be too harsh on the people. Paradox is successful in large part because of people goodwill. They sell you a game that you know has hundreds of dollars worth DLC and they want you to trust them that it's not pay to play. Their games have subpar graphics and hostile UI, documentation, and tutorials - and you have to trust them that after 20 hours of getting into it and maybe watching some letsplays you'll have some fun. Even devoted fans say that their games require a lot of patches to work properly and still have a lot of bugs years after continuous support. I don't think it's just Paradox. It's just that the market is oversaturated with half-finished games and the customers are slowly losing patience. The business model where you generate a lot of hype around the game, sell it when you have some runnable code (and sometimes even before that, because of Kickstarter) and slowly work on it while using players as unpaid QA is unsustainable in the long term. You can invest only in so many never delivered Kickstarters, unplayable Early Access games and early betas rushed out, before you realize that if you wait a year, you can have a much better game that also costs less. I don't understand the logic of charging a full amount of money for an unfinished product and putting a finished one later in the bargain bin.
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Jul 4, 2019 23:35
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Randallteal posted:CK2 can definitely work as a dollhouse kinda like the Sims where you're filling in the gaps with your imagination. I usually have some kind of meta story in my head while playing even if it's not always conscious, like imagining a historian telling the story of what's happening in the game from some point in the future. Yeah, I never manage to do that. When I play EU4 - I'm there, I am the state. When I get the prize it's because I've outplayed someone at the great chessboard. When I succeed in CK2 it's because some of my enemies have chocked on a pretzel and other had a sudden ambitious rebelous vassal,and I happen to strike a lucky event healing me from depression. My character becoming a devious poet does not affect my strategy, and I don't care if my character is a pious dude because I don't know the game enough to get a Saint out of that. I know the game enough to go from OPM to a strongest empire in the world and it don't seem to be enough to actually enjoy the game. My wife doesn't care much about efficiency, plays it like a dollhouse and seem to have a much better time with it.
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Jul 5, 2019 07:31
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Gantolandon posted:I don't understand the logic of charging a full amount of money for an unfinished product and putting a finished one later in the bargain bin. It's not about logic. It's about us not being able to reliably pass the zephyr test.
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Jul 5, 2019 07:33
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RabidWeasel posted:I don't think I will ever understand what the essential quality is that makes EU4 not an "empty shell" but Imperator is, but then I generally hate the concept of "flavour" as applied to Paradox games because it seems to mean "your favourite region / religion gets a button to click every 10 years which gives you disproportionately large bonuses" poo poo like mission trees, national ideas and gameplay styles that favour some nations more than others is flavour, not just random events. Imperator has none of this, there are a handful of government types and even they play in an extremely similar way with basically no direction beside eating everyone nearby.
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Jul 5, 2019 08:26
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https://twitter.com/producerjohan/status/1147168534134497280?s=19 So how is the 1.2 beta shaping up? Reddit seems uncharacteristically positive for once.
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Jul 5, 2019 16:58
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/producerjohan/status/1147168534134497280?s=19 First impression is really good to be honest. There are some small bugs, but nothing game breaking.
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Jul 5, 2019 17:09
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I'm currently making the entire population of south Italy swarm into my glorious capital city 
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Jul 6, 2019 13:53
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Note there are also 1.2 mods already. Icon fix is a must, I think. There are also bugfixes.
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Jul 6, 2019 14:06
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Playing this version had generated 8 Gb on my system disk and ate almost all free space there. Huh. Maybe I shouldn't have those bugfixing mods?..
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Jul 6, 2019 14:18
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Haven't played in a while and decided to give it another go this weekend, got into my head to get a Gadir game going. After 6 restarts I finally get it off the ground without Carthage murdering my tiny rear end and in fact had almost catched up! Started a war against 3 smaller iberian tribes(later joined by a forth) and the largest war in that campaign started! It took a while but we where juuuust about to tip the scales into our favor, when the game decided to remind me that volcanoes exists in spain by blowing one off in the middle of my empire An emergency peace deal later and it's time for a break before I start to untangle the mess that is my economy now!
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Jul 7, 2019 16:14
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One thing I like about this game is that I get the feeling I'mreally improving in playstyle and that I can see multiple things in which I can still improve, like when to interact with characters in other countries and how to set up my armies. It seems to me the optimal play in imperator rome is more difficult than in EU IV, i.e. there are much more things you can do to get ahead. Last game I tried going for the "conquer everything Alexander did" as Thrace and failed, but after doing it I have the impression my failure has a lot to do with me not using all tricks at my disposal and suboptimal target selection/strategy. By the way, does anyone have a good link to an explanation of the strength and weaknesses of the different army types? In particular I'm wondering when to use steppe horses.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:25
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Steppe horses are amazing and you should use them basically all the time unless you have lots of bonuses to HI from your military traditions, though you will want some way of dealing with light cav.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:33
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