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And the weekend patch is out. Looks like it is dynamic temp for the water sieve after all.
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Jul 6, 2019 00:42
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I did discover what was crashing my game. Apparently if I destroy/deconstruct a pipe with a liquid/gas in it the game will crash pretty consistently. Beware of that I guess. Emptying it beforehand makes it not crash though so there's that.
Cowman fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 00:58
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Smiling Demon posted:And the weekend patch is out. Looks like it is dynamic temp for the water sieve after all.
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Jul 6, 2019 01:19
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I don’t have a problem conceptually with minimum output heat / heat addition, if it’s intended to model a minimum temperature for some process to occur. But the game needs to make it incredibly obvious to new players that feeding 25C polluted water into a water sieve is going to cook your base, otherwise it’s too hard to understand. At least the game needs an explicit warning in the sieve description (or a tutorial element), and really I think a warning light on the siege if it’s artificially heating input water wouldn’t go too far astray.
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Jul 6, 2019 01:39
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Smiling Demon posted:And the weekend patch is out. Looks like it is dynamic temp for the water sieve after all. I honestly don't know if this is a good design or not. As people said, the whole point of 40c water is specifically so you can't endlessly loop cool water over and over. Yeah, the sieve did end up being used as a minor steam turbine to delete heat, but it also functioned correctly: Cleaning your water, but leaving you with a result that is to hot to use in most cases. Does this mean electrolyzers are variable output now too? So is the right response to forget about cooling air completely, and just feed it cool water in the first place?
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Jul 6, 2019 02:34
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User0015 posted:I honestly don't know if this is a good design or not. As people said, the whole point of 40c water is specifically so you can't endlessly loop cool water over and over. Yeah, the sieve did end up being used as a minor steam turbine to delete heat, but it also functioned correctly: Cleaning your water, but leaving you with a result that is to hot to use in most cases. Not sure about electrolyzers, I haven't played the patch yet but the stated goal was " to ensure that their output temperatures and temperature behaviors are consistent with the design and theme goals of each building, and generally consistent with the rest of the system."
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Jul 6, 2019 03:53
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Away all Goats posted:Anyone have any experience running this on laptops? How well does it run compared to say, Rimworld or Factorio? It's happy as a clam on my Macbook Pro, so...
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Jul 6, 2019 04:18
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User0015 posted:I honestly don't know if this is a good design or not. As people said, the whole point of 40c water is specifically so you can't endlessly loop cool water over and over. Yeah, the sieve did end up being used as a minor steam turbine to delete heat, but it also functioned correctly: Cleaning your water, but leaving you with a result that is to hot to use in most cases. I'm going 100% off what "feels" right, but adding like 10 degrees to the water every time it sieves just feels right to me. Static, arbitrary output has always felt janky no matter what direction. Just adding 10 degrees fits in with every other, "this is a solution, but it causes this other problem" design decision I've seen so far. Especially with wheeze consuming fertilizer now.
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Jul 6, 2019 04:45
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input_temp + x is best solution. The 'closed water loop' example is defeated by this as well. It should make intuitive sense. Having weird heat deletion and addition is weird.
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Jul 6, 2019 05:38
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What closed loop are you guys talking about? What's wrong with input temp == output temp?
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Jul 6, 2019 06:20
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Sillybones posted:input_temp + x is best solution. The 'closed water loop' example is defeated by this as well.
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Jul 6, 2019 06:38
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Self-cleaning bathrooms don't really produce enough extra water from toilets to actually generate that much heat. They might be a bit warmer than other rooms around them but if the rest of your base is a reasonable temperature you'll be fine as long as you don't put temperature sensitive farms net to them.
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Jul 6, 2019 09:26
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nrook posted:I don’t have a problem conceptually with minimum output heat / heat addition, if it’s intended to model a minimum temperature for some process to occur. But the game needs to make it incredibly obvious to new players that feeding 25C polluted water into a water sieve is going to cook your base, otherwise it’s too hard to understand. At least the game needs an explicit warning in the sieve description (or a tutorial element), and really I think a warning light on the siege if it’s artificially heating input water wouldn’t go too far astray.
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Jul 6, 2019 09:42
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bird food bathtub posted:I'm going 100% off what "feels" right, but adding like 10 degrees to the water every time it sieves just feels right to me. Static, arbitrary output has always felt janky no matter what direction. Just adding 10 degrees fits in with every other, "this is a solution, but it causes this other problem" design decision I've seen so far. Yeah I can see that. Another thing I saw mentioned is that it trivialized the rime map due to heat creation. So I guess it'll be fine either way. I'm still partial too electrolyzers outputting hot gasses, because I like solving the hot air problem. I guess it depends on if they keep this change to just sieves or include it for electrolyzers or change them to current temp + x. The final point I'll say is that when you cap the output, it's easier to handle because you can't do things like dump hot p water into it and cause a scalding steam explosion like you can with a metal refinery, which is it's own problem and something I definitely never accidentally do. But that gives a different 'feeling' to the refinery, almost like it's dangerous to use so be careful. Now you can send chilled p water into a sieve and get out ice in the most comical ice maker ever.
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Jul 6, 2019 15:04
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Alkydere posted:Self-cleaning bathrooms don't really produce enough extra water from toilets to actually generate that much heat. They might be a bit warmer than other rooms around them but if the rest of your base is a reasonable temperature you'll be fine as long as you don't put temperature sensitive farms net to them.
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Jul 6, 2019 18:02
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:I didn’t mean the bathroom itself, but the water that’s piped through it. If you add heat every “cycle”, eventually it’s going to get so hot it breaks the pipes. Or so I’d think. And that's what I'm talking about. Yes the water is hot but it's not THAT hot and more importantly it's not that much water compared to the 200Kg wall tiles you've surrounded the room with. The bathroom and the sieve room will likely be a few C hotter than the surrounding area over 100 cycles (especially if you use an airlock door to trap the heat in the sieve room). If you've got enough cooling in other ways dealing with the heat is gonna be minor compared to just about any sort of non-renewable power system.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:49
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Question from a newbie - this is my first game, so I know full well that everything is inefficient -  How do I get rid of that water, short of destroying the floor and rebuilding?
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Jul 6, 2019 21:30
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You can tell them to mop it up. They'll put it in bottles which you can empty into a bottle emptier. It needs to be less than a certain amount. I don't remember how much but if it's no longer running, you're almost certainly ok.
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Jul 6, 2019 21:35
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Adenoid Dan posted:You can tell them to mop it up. They'll put it in bottles which you can empty into a bottle emptier. Perfect, thank you! fake edit: STOP MAKING MESSES IN THE COLONY'S WATER SUPPLY
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Jul 6, 2019 21:43
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StrixNebulosa posted:fake edit: STOP MAKING MESSES IN THE COLONY'S WATER SUPPLY It's a rite of passage. Happy first game!
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Jul 6, 2019 21:58
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Adenoid Dan posted:It's a rite of passage. Happy first game! ughhhh To-do - make two reservoirs that filter polluted water into water, somehow - find a source of sand - find more metal so I can get a water pump so we can get some showers running - expand food supply
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Jul 6, 2019 22:08
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Adenoid Dan posted:It's a rite of passage. Happy first game! The next one (arguably) is HOW DID YOU ALL GET FOOD POISONING!
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Jul 6, 2019 23:23
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Hello Sailor posted:The next one (arguably) is HOW DID YOU ALL GET FOOD POISONING! They all started with food poisoning, I swear to god. The literal second we swapped from rations to our own asteroid-grown ground up bars, everyone got food poisoning, followed by slime lung. Everyone in my colony is constantly sick, oh well.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:40
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I have ~400 hours in the game and besides a couple food poisoning cases early on when I was still figuring out the optimal base setup, I haven't had a dupe get sick since. StrixNebulosa, when setting up the dupe bathrooms, you want to have an equal number of wash basins as outhouses and ensure that the dupes only have one way out of the latrine, past the wash basins. The image below is my 31 cycle Rime base. I started with 2 wash basins and 2 outhouses, then deconstructed an outhouse (making sure the dirt inside had no germs), and built the 3+3.  StrixNebulosa posted:They all started with food poisoning, I swear to god. The literal second we swapped from rations to our own asteroid-grown ground up bars, everyone got food poisoning, followed by slime lung. Everyone in my colony is constantly sick, oh well. You also want to ensure there is nothing inside the bathroom that they can pick up (food, etc). You have enough time on the first cycle to dig the natural floor out and the next two tiles down then build a constructed floor. I just leave the polluted dirt and water where the dupes drop it and put deodorizers at the entrance. If you absolutely need to, you can manually control the dupes to walk over a wash basin after using the outhouse, if they look like they're trying to grab something before doing so.
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Jul 7, 2019 00:25
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Also if/when you have an area free to use as a kitchen, give it a single entrance and have dupes wash their hands on the way in for an extra layer of protection.
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Jul 7, 2019 05:00
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Do dupes get food poisoning from eating raw food that’s grown in a farm tile? I mostly ignore food poisoning, but in the last few months it seems they only get it early in the game, when they’re picking stuff up off the ground.
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Jul 7, 2019 05:06
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*Food* from the farm tile, no. Farm tiles will cause the of transfer germs to the duplicant just from carrying bottled polluted water full of germs to them, I would only use hydroponic tiles if you want to try this. For me the most common source is food that originates from the bathroom itself, like muckroot I dig out after I decide where the bathroom will be. I once even had a pacu that somehow flopped its way into the bathroom and die be the source of food poisoning after some dupe thought that after using the toilet eating the dead pacu on the floor was a great idea. If duplicants interact with a building covered with food poisoning they get food poisoning on them. This can be relevant if you use food poisoned water in either the super computer or metal refinery as these buildings strangely transfer the germs from the input fluid to the exterior. Hydroponic tiles as far as I know do not.
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Jul 7, 2019 06:46
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Food poisoning only occurs if the food or the duplicant eating it has food poisoning germs on them, the more germs the higher the chance. However there are some unexpected ways that they can get germs on them. If there are germs on a duplicant, a building or an input material then germs will be transferred to the other two as well as any output when the building gets used. The only exception is plants, germy fertiliser doesn't result in germy crops (but as Smiling Demon says can result in germy dupes which can result in germy crops.) Putting an item into a container/taking one out counts as using a building so check your ration box for germs if someone gets sick.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:30
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Two sources of food poisoning other than food: the water cooler and the espresso machine. If the water in either of those has food poisoning, dupes drinking from them will be exposed. This is probably not what happened to you, but if you have a water cooler check the water in it.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:35
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Smiling Demon posted:Two sources of food poisoning other than food: the water cooler and the espresso machine. If the water in either of those has food poisoning, dupes drinking from them will be exposed. This is probably not what happened to you, but if you have a water cooler check the water in it. I still feel the fricking espresso machine should be sterilizing the water. I suppose the outside could be contaminated when it's filled.
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Jul 7, 2019 16:48
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Dire Lemming posted:Also if/when you have an area free to use as a kitchen, give it a single entrance and have dupes wash their hands on the way in for an extra layer of protection.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:49
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Is the new content fun right now, or should I wait a month or two to start playing with it?
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Jul 8, 2019 13:30
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It's fabulous. The new Verdant biome in particular is way fun. Furthermore, learning a new path through the early turns is great; instead of toilets/electricity+oxygen/research/farming you have to figure out what you really should be doing. Apart from toilets. Always toilets. Haven't tried the tougher biomes.
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Jul 8, 2019 16:14
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Arboria is a neat start, but you need to break out of the starting biome in order to access algae OR rust/salt for early oxygen. Burning wood for power is not a great solution, even with a smart battery and logic conditions set. Access to coal also requires breaking through the Granite layer around the starting area, and it is pretty limited. Early Hatch ranching is probably indicated as a result.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:22
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LonsomeSon posted:Arboria is a neat start, but you need to break out of the starting biome in order to access algae OR rust/salt for early oxygen. I've been using oxyfern, but I suppose it depends on your definition of early? I am not many cycles in.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:26
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I've been using oxyfern, but I suppose it depends on your definition of early? I am not many cycles in. Oxyfern requires too much water when domesticated, something the forest biome is short on. When wild you will never get enough oxyfern to support your duplicants, I think you need ~40 ferns to support 3. The forest start gives nice benefits (arbor acorns, oxyfern, aluminum) but is definitely harder to get off the ground in my experience. I haven't tried forest starts other than arboria yet though.
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Jul 8, 2019 23:24
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Smiling Demon posted:Oxyfern requires too much water when domesticated, something the forest biome is short on. When wild you will never get enough oxyfern to support your duplicants, I think you need ~40 ferns to support 3. Which biomes are you enjoying?
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Jul 8, 2019 23:28
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I'm also curious to hear people's takes on which of the map types are most fun to play on. Maps completely lacking something like gold seems annoying, since you have to deal with all of your machinery overheating at lower temperatures. I don't restart as much as some people so I'm afraid of picking a bad map and having sub-optimal fun 
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Jul 9, 2019 00:11
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Latest asteroid I've been playing is the badlands (metal rich - subsurface oceans - geodes). Badlands and metal rich together mean you are absolutely swimming in metals. Refined iron (not iron ore) is common in the badlands meaning I haven't even built a rock granulator yet, let alone my standard metal refinery. The starting biome in the badlands is much larger than in most, making up for a lack of water. The subsurface ocean gives me a decent supply of salt water, the cold biomes a supply of ice. I got decent geysers for when these run out. I'm short gold, algae, slime, and thimble reed seeds. I got a little bit of gold amalgam from a geode, but otherwise nothing. I can do without too much algae (the caustic biome and the starting biome have some). Slime isn't necessary. I will need to get my reed fiber from dreckos. Originally I was lining my halls with iron instead of the standard gold... but I actually changed that to lead. I have plenty of copper which would be better from a decor standpoint, but as per above, haven't even built a rock granulator. One thing I have to check, but think is true, is that the map is significantly larger in the badlands. It could be the massive quantities of rock creating an optical illusion, but it seems too big for that. There is an absurd amount of granite on the map. I want to ranch stone hatches, but need to either crush some fossils or excavate a tide pool biome to get the sedimentary rock to start as I have not lucked out on the 2% chance to get a stone hatchling egg. This is actually probably one of the easiest asteroids. *as for the no-gold issue, I'll get steel soon enough which is better than gold amalgam for that purpose. Gold is nice for the decor, but it isn't hard to do without. Gold is needed for oxylite, but you can technically do without (or ranch dense pufts). The one place you can not substitute anything for gold is in making supercoolant, but that is incredibly lategame. The same applies to tungsten in making thermium if you have none of that on your map. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 00:45
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I've been using oxyfern, but I suppose it depends on your definition of early? I am not many cycles in. Oxyfern for sure doesn't gently caress around, once you get it planted and irrigated, but I guess by early I mean initial machinery.
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Jul 9, 2019 00:52
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