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DropsySufferer posted:What I didn't understand about that episode was why Carmela was so resistant to military school. Was it because she didn't want her son to leave her? Personally I think the school might have been good for AJ to have had some discipline and direction in his life. Granted I've never met anyone who went to military school so I'm not sure if those schools are good for curing spoiled, and bad kids or if it is brainwashing? She is an Italian(-American) mother? Tony's mom was an exception that makes the rule. Well Christopher's mom was no prize either.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:45
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https://twitter.com/lin_manuel/status/1146433097371738112?s=21
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Jul 3, 2019 16:01
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Martian Manfucker posted:Is this show worth watching if you've never seen it and the only thing you know about it, really, is that the final scene ends in a weird way with a cut to black? I don't know if this thread cares about first time viewer impressions, but as a follow-up to this, I just finished season 1 and I'm liking it a lot. Tony and his crew/family are like big kids, and I mean that in the worst way possible. Big kids with power and weapons are terrifying and as much as I've laughed at the show(it's really funny sometimes; Tony giving his doctor neighbour that box of sand to freak him out, Christopher's "script") it's scared me as well. They're all pieces of poo poo on this show, but in a really tragic way, and it's great. I regret writing it off as Goodfellows but on TV ages ago. The one character I can't stand, though, and it's probably because of my own emotional poo poo, is Tony's mother. The crocodile tears, the manipulation. I think Tony describes her as a black cloud of poison at one point and that's the perfect description for someone like that. Like a ten tonne weight always on your chest, it's unbearable. As someone who was diagnosed with BPD I wouldn't characterize myself as an emotionless sociopath, though, that scene with Melfi kinda peeved me off. They're all pretty despicable people, but I want to see where they end up. Martian Manfucker fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 16:38
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I always like the bits where Olivia slips up and starts to enjoy herself and has to reel herself back in, proving that you genuinely have to work at being that nasty.
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Jul 3, 2019 20:27
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Martian Manfucker posted:They're all pieces of poo poo on this show, but in a really tragic way, and it's great. I regret writing it off as Goodfellows but on TV ages ago. Even if you did think that was what it was why would you write it off for that reason? Goodfellas is one of the greatest films of all time. If there were a TV show like that I'd be watching all the time. That said I'm glad that the Sopranos is a very different piece of art than Goodfellas.
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Jul 3, 2019 20:54
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Martian Manfucker posted:I don't know if this thread cares about first time viewer impressions, but as a follow-up to this, I just finished season 1 and I'm liking it a lot. Tony and his crew/family are like big kids, and I mean that in the worst way possible. Big kids with power and weapons are terrifying and as much as I've laughed at the show(it's really funny sometimes; Tony giving his doctor neighbour that box of sand to freak him out, Christopher's "script") it's scared me as well. Keep watching
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Jul 3, 2019 22:26
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Martian Manfucker posted:I don't know if this thread cares about first time viewer impressions, but as a follow-up to this, I just finished season 1 and I'm liking it a lot. Tony and his crew/family are like big kids, and I mean that in the worst way possible. Big kids with power and weapons are terrifying and as much as I've laughed at the show(it's really funny sometimes; Tony giving his doctor neighbour that box of sand to freak him out, Christopher's "script") it's scared me as well. His mom is extremely awful and toxic and that's the point. If that bothers you to the point where you don't want to watch, then its probably not the show for you, because its just gonna be a lot of uncomfortable moments. But... if you're thinking you're supposed to like her you definitely are NOT. She is not a good person. And her role in the show diminishes over time to focus on the mob stuff so if that one thing was bothering you alone then keep going. But if you can't handle watching a show about bad people, don't watch Sopranos. They're all bad people. Martian Manfucker posted:As someone who was diagnosed with BPD I wouldn't characterize myself as an emotionless sociopath, though, that scene with Melfi kinda peeved me off. .......what? What does this even mean? If you're interpreting it as "she has BPD and she's awful so that means they're saying all people with BPD are awful" that does not follow. That's not true.
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Jul 3, 2019 23:41
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Zaphod42 posted:His mom is extremely awful and toxic and that's the point. If that bothers you to the point where you don't want to watch, then its probably not the show for you, because its just gonna be a lot of uncomfortable moments. You're reading a lot into what I said. All I said was that her character is the one I had the strongest reaction to, and tried to explain why. I realize that you're not supposed to like her, or any of the characters on this show, really. None of that was meant to come across like I was hating on the show. I'm liking it a lot...
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Jul 4, 2019 00:39
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Martian Manfucker posted:You're reading a lot into what I said. All I said was that her character is the one I had the strongest reaction to, and tried to explain why. I realize that you're not supposed to like her, or any of the characters on this show, really. None of that was meant to come across like I was hating on the show. I'm liking it a lot... I didn't think you were hating on the show, but I thought you were saying you didn't like those things, that aspect of it. I kinda thought you were saying that's why you hadn't seen the show before; but I kinda totally misread that. Sorry.
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Jul 4, 2019 02:05
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I can understand the need to have a character you like to get you through a show. It’s a problem I had with sopranos season 3 and on. There wasn’t really much of an overal plot and not really liking any of the cast made it hard to get invested in their melodrama.
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Jul 4, 2019 02:07
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Dawgstar posted:I always like the bits where Olivia slips up and starts to enjoy herself and has to reel herself back in, proving that you genuinely have to work at being that nasty. The scene that always stands out to me is when Tony brings Livia a particular piece of baking he knows she likes, and you see the immediate pleasure/yearning on her face as she reaches automatically for them.... and then she FORCES herself to physically stop, sneer and grunt that she doesn't like them. Then spends the entire rest of the scene while she and Tony are talking sneaking looks over at them because she wants them so badly but she's denying herself simply to deny Tony the chance to think he did something she liked.
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Jul 4, 2019 04:35
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Dawgstar posted:Not really. Real life mobsters liking The Sopranos' actors and the show itself is a tradition that's gone back as far as there were mob movies. "Crazy Joe" Gallo idolized Richard Widmark in 'Kiss of Death' and then it's well known that the Mafia were influenced by The Godfather. And it's pretty easy to see why. Any time you take a profession - even a violent, amoral one - and give the 'workers' characters like them who are both magnetic and charismatic with sharp dialogue doing interesting things they're going to react positively. too bad John Oliver never actually made the Infrastructure movie he made a trailer for 
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Jul 4, 2019 21:36
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You’re a bigger man than some. And we can be grateful that nobody was incinerated to death...
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Jul 5, 2019 00:38
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Jerusalem posted:The scene that always stands out to me is when Tony brings Livia a particular piece of baking he knows she likes, and you see the immediate pleasure/yearning on her face as she reaches automatically for them.... and then she FORCES herself to physically stop, sneer and grunt that she doesn't like them. Then spends the entire rest of the scene while she and Tony are talking sneaking looks over at them because she wants them so badly but she's denying herself simply to deny Tony the chance to think he did something she liked. The macaroons! That's one of my favourite Livia scenes too. "ugh, they'a too sweet" *bats hand at air dismissively and shuffles off* Then when he goes to take them away before he leaves she can't stop herself "... leave some out for the idiots" 
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Jul 5, 2019 01:03
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"AND BRING THA COOKIES!"
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Jul 5, 2019 01:19
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Ginette Reno posted:Also the whole waiter and Paulie/Chris thing is something the show likes to do a lot which is pit mobsters against normal people and then have those confrontations escalate into something terrible. There are normal people who would do just what Chris did there and fail to properly tip, but most normal people would just have a little back and forth argument with the waiter and then leave after a few choice words. But for Chris and Paulie, that situation escalates into a dead waiter instead. Anyways, under every clip where a mobster hurts / kills a random civilian for getting in his way in some minor manner, there are a LOT of comments along the lines of "they had it coming". I don't believe most of those are just being glib / trolling. Hurting or killing people who annoyed you in some way is a daily fantasy for any number of people. And while there's a lot of media where retribution comes due to messing with the wrong person, the idea of "hey, you're messing with too many people in general, tone down the violence as a matter of general quantity" is apparently not very cinematically engaging?
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Jul 5, 2019 11:29
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Xander77 posted:Anyways, under every clip where a mobster hurts / kills a random civilian for getting in his way in some minor manner, there are a LOT of comments along the lines of "they had it coming". I don't believe most of those are just being glib / trolling. Hurting or killing people who annoyed you in some way is a daily fantasy for any number of people. You're always going to get people who don't get that Tony Soprano, or Walter White or whatever Rick from Rick and Morty's last name is are actually bad/broken/pitiable figures because they get too caught up in the surface power fantasy. I think to The Sopranos credit David Chase never attempts to show Tony and company as something to imitate but some people still ain't gonna get that.
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Jul 5, 2019 14:19
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I don’t even get the power fantasy aspect for Tony. He never really does anything that impressive and half the mob plots are his subordinates undermining him. Unless your power fantasy is just being a suburban dad in which case you do you
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Jul 5, 2019 14:21
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t even get the power fantasy aspect for Tony. He never really does anything that impressive and half the mob plots are his subordinates undermining him. I think that Tony scratches a particular itch for the viewer because his anger has repercussions. Most people get angry at things and it's just an impotent rage, fuming at the idiot who cut you off or the guy who screwed you over. Imagining yourself as Tony Soprano means imagining that your anger is something with weight and value, something for people to fear and respect instead of just ignoring you. Now, once you dive into Tony deeper you can see that his anger is still mostly impotent, and being able to vent his rage doesn't bring him the catharsis we imagine it should. But I think that the feeling of being a person who can flout society's rules and vent your anger at your enemies with purpose is a very seductive idea.
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Jul 5, 2019 14:50
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Ishamael posted:I think that Tony scratches a particular itch for the viewer because his anger has repercussions. Most people get angry at things and it's just an impotent rage, fuming at the idiot who cut you off or the guy who screwed you over. Imagining yourself as Tony Soprano means imagining that your anger is something with weight and value, something for people to fear and respect instead of just ignoring you. That’s fair and I guess Tony does end of loving every girl he meets, even if they all turn out to be basket cases.
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Jul 5, 2019 15:13
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Xander77 posted:I mostly experience the Sopranos through youtube clips and the recaps here, which is obviously the best possible way to get the show. It is, but most people wouldn't ever act on those fantasies and David Chase shows you just how empty and horrible it is if you actually do. The violence isn't glorified. But yeah a lot of people definitely miss that point unfortunately.
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Jul 5, 2019 15:39
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Ishamael posted:I think that Tony scratches a particular itch for the viewer because his anger has repercussions. Most people get angry at things and it's just an impotent rage, fuming at the idiot who cut you off or the guy who screwed you over. Imagining yourself as Tony Soprano means imagining that your anger is something with weight and value, something for people to fear and respect instead of just ignoring you. Yeah, like the time at the restaurant where he gets the guy to take his ball cap off just by looming and staring at him. We've all probably at some point wanted to be able to shut people up with a glare.
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Jul 5, 2019 16:57
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A glare, and the crucial nasal breathing growing slightly louder.
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Jul 6, 2019 00:24
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This is my cheating way of not going over the character limit! Season 4 of The Sopranos premiered to a very different world than the one season 3 aired in. The 9/11 Terrorism Attacks had an immediately obvious affect on the show, as the World Trade Towers were removed from the opening credits. But more than that, I recall in the anticipation to the season came a concern: would the show really work anymore? It's laughable now with the benefit of hindsight, but there was a concern that the show had somehow become almost "quaint" overnight. That the comparatively small-time criminals and their daily lives would no longer cut it in a world of Homeland Security, war in Afghanistan (and Iraq not too far off), shoebombers, the complete overhaul of security at airports, paranoia about Al Qaeda sleeper cells, equal parts disdain and patriotic fervor for the President etc. For my part what always stuck in my head was watching the wall-to-wall coverage of the attacks in the days that followed, and the surreal moment when a reporter bumped into Michael Imperioli on the streets of New York where the two - almost dazed by the events - could only agree that the reality of violence, terror and death was NOTHING like the fantasy artifice of television like The Sopranos. Of course in the end, the show just did what it had always done: it was really loving good. Turns out that is all anybody really needed, and though the show couldn't ignore the attacks, it incorporated them well into the world that the characters inhabited in a way that felt largely on point for THOSE characters. Particularly in the curious blend of criminality and patriotism exhibited by the Mafia, and of course the sudden shift in priorities for the FBI who before had put everything they had into organized crime and were now obessed with terrorism (another brilliant HBO show - The Wire - had some really interesting things to say about all this). Still, a part of me almost wishes AJ had gone to that Military School, just to see how Carmela would have lost her loving mind over the idea of him ending up a solider and going to the Middle East.
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Jul 6, 2019 13:07
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Season 4, Episode 1 - For All Debts Public and PrivateCarmela Soprano posted:Let me tell you something, or you can watch the loving news... everything comes to an end. Carmela reads an article from The New York Times about influence peddling in Italy, or rather that it is NOT a crime according to a High Court ruling, trying to spark AJ's interest in his studies. Whether knowingly or not, she is seemingly trying to justify Tony's own criminal behavior by making it an understood and even beloved "tradition". AJ of course is bored, barely eating is cereal and ignoring her and the stack of newspapers on the table from his social studies class at the new private school they finally managed to find for him. As World Destruction plays, Tony strolls down the driveway in his bathrobe to collects the paper. He seems as bored as AJ until he reaches the sports section and wanders back up to the house. He sees movement in the bushes by his pool and for a brief moment thinks the ducks have returned at last... but it is only a squirrel. Meanwhile, Agent Deborah Ciccerone rushes about her own home, getting back into her undercover role as "Danielle", also trying to calm her baby and share at least a brief moment with her husband, another FBI Agent (played by Will Arnett!). In the house, Carmela reminds AJ he's supposed to be writing a paper on ethnicity so why not take an interest in this? AJ is confused, the article was about Potenza and he thought they were from "Nadolidaboli"? Carmela - who mispronounces Italian words constantly - explains they're Napoletani, but her point is about Italy as a whole. Tony enters the kitchen, complaining about the bread he left for the ducks being gone. When he finds out Carmela found the pile of newspapers sitting unread in AJ's room he warns him not to screw up at this new school, giving him a slap on the head when he talks back. Despite this though, the scene is surprisingly warm and domestic. Tony is affectionate with Carmela who reciprocates, and Tony sits comfortably at the table with AJ and points out a new car in the motoring section, amused that THIS is what gets him to sit up straight and take notice. The tension and stress from the end of season 3 are gone, the family got through a tough time and, despite ongoing issues, are largely back to normality now.   A knock at the door gets Carmela quickly checking her make-up and hair, but she's disappointed when it is Christopher and not Furio who has come to pick up Tony. Tony ignores Christopher's greeting, who can only offer to Carmela that Furio isn't sick, Tony likes to change things up every so often is all. Once in the car, though, Christopher reveals with some chagrin that the reason Furio isn't driving Tony today is because he went to the racetrack instead. Tony knew, of course, and Christopher's complaint isn't that Furio went, but that he was chosen to fill in for him. When he sees Tony is pissed that he feels this way, he is quick to assure him that he is glad to be back driving for him, but he clearly isn't happy to be doing it without any kind of explanation, and Tony is certainly not going to give him one. They sit in silence for a few moments and Tony, now getting ticked off, suddenly points out that Christopher's father was like a mentor to him. Christopher has clearly heard this before and isn't impressed, but like AJ he becomes hungry for more when Tony throws out a few details he hadn't heard: like how Dickie Moltisanti hunted down a New England crew on their own territory, he was a legend. At Doctor Schreck's, Tony waits with Junior and Bobby for an exam room to be open where the FBI aren't allowed to bug them. The nurse, an older (not quite middle-aged) black woman is amused by Junior's outrageous flirting but clearly used to it, warning him not to be a bother and to get undressed while she gets Doctor Schreck. Junior is having a great time, but Tony can't help but notice a pleasant look from her towards himself as she leaves the room: clearly his elderly uncle is just being silly thinking she might be interested, but an overweight middle-aged dad? Now that's the kind of guy sexy nurses fall for all the time!   Inside, Junior's reveals the reason why he requested seeing Tony. He's bleeding out financially from his legal defense and they HAVE to change up their arrangement, a statement that doesn't please Tony. But Junior doesn't back down from Tony's clearly hostile stance, ranting about how the trial will cost him at least a million dollars even before the new Harvard intern Melvoin brought in, plus audibility and minimization experts and monthly expenses like xeroxing, he thinks they should just all have a meeting and pass the one sheet of paper around! In any case, he needs more than what Tony is giving him, but Tony is adamant that the split stays the same. Junior reminds him that he was put in place to be a lightning rod, being on trial is what has given Tony the freedom to rake in the cash and walk around in the open for the last two years. That doesn't move Tony, so he points out his medical bills, but again Tony is unmoved, claiming to have cashflow problems of his own. He won't even consider Junior's desperate last resort demand for a one-time cash injection of 50-75k. Instead he tells him to get his loansharking business in order, and Junior storms out in a rage, having gotten nothing for all his demands, then bargaining, then pleading. Dr. Schreck is outside going through X-Rays, and simply gives Tony a nod when he follows after Junior, long since numb to their trespasses. Carmela just misses Angie Bonpensiero at the supermarket, ducking down the aisle to avoid the mutual embarrassment of seeing Angie undignified fall from "grace": from mob wife to having to hand out free samples at the supermarket just to get by. "Danielle" is at Christopher and Adriana's, where the latter's little dog Cosette is yapping constantly. Adriana is complaining about Versace's dinnerware being crass when they're both surprised by Christopher's arrival, hauling a large amount of empty luggage inside the apartment. Adriana is surprised to see him first, but more interested in whether the luggage is for them to keep or not. Christopher, in no mood to talk, largely ignores them as he moves about in his room. He finally emerges, cracking a nasty joke at Danielle who excuses herself, pissing off Adriana who wants her to stay. She asks about the luggage before going though, and he reminds her that SHE was the one who was going to go, so she makes a point of dropping the luggage to the floor. As she and Adriana say their goodbyes, Adriana offers a lame explanation that he has a liquidator cousin which is how he gets this stuff. Christopher can't hold out any longer and the reason for his agitation becomes clear. He retreats back to the bedroom where he's already got his socks off and his drug kit out by the time Adriana finishes her goodbyes to Danielle and joins him. He's still on heroin, injecting it between his toes so there will be no visible signs of his drug use, utterly convinced like every junkie before him that he's got it under control and is in fact smart about how he handles things since Adriana's decision to just smoke some every now and then is, in his mind, far more likely to be addictive. He complains about his day, about Tony's attitude towards him ever since he went off the deep end regarding Jackie Jr, and how he assumes Tony brought up his father simply so he could compare Christopher to him negatively. He is starting to think he might be on the "endangered species" list, but Adriana assures him that Tony loves him and wouldn't have allowed him to be Made if he didn't trust him. Christopher agrees that he can be depended on, asking when he hasn't ever been there 100% for Tony... as he shoots up with heroin and falls into a drug induced stupor.  Tony is watching Rio Bravo, a bowl of ice-cream made up for him to enjoy as Dean Martin sings. But as he settles in, Carmela joins him on the couch and asks to talk, wanting to turn the movie off ("turn it down" Tony compromises). He can tell this isn't going to be a pleasant conversation and he's extremely wary, at first thinking she is worried about his weight and then assuming she wants to bitch about her reduced allowance. What she's worried about is him and the future of her and the kids on the off-chance that something happens to him. She invokes Pussy not by name, but by her spotting Angie in the supermarket today. This upsets Tony, who apparently no longer provides her with financial support (at some point he simply cut her off, having done "the right thing" for "long enough" for the woman whose husband he murdered) and seems to think now that Carmela is pushing for him to help her out again. Again though, that isn't Carmela's concern, she is sorry for Angie but more concerned about becoming her. Yes Tony provides for them all now, but what about if something happens to him? Telling her that she'll be provided for isn't enough for peace of mind, how will she be provided for? How will she get the money? Who doles it out? Sil? Paulie? That's terrifying, how will she know to contact them? Tony becomes upset, as he often does when somebody doesn't appreciate him doing all these things that he never actually tells them about in the first place. He's put money into overseas bank accounts to keep her taken care off in perpetuity, but he's deliberately not given her any information about this to prevent her becoming an accomplice and risking losing it all. He starts ranting about how stressful his job is and he just wanted to come home and enjoy relaxing on the couch with a movie and some ice cream... but as he bitches and complains he spots the look on her face and pulls up short: she's not in this for a fight, she's not condemning or attacking him, and now she's simply sitting and waiting for him to let off enough steam that they can continue to talk like adults. Biting back his temper, he listens as she lays out some reasonable and logical ideas: why not look into simple estate planning with her cousin? They can use some of the legitimate income he claims from Barone Sanitation to set it up, create something in writing that she is an active part of, to provide her with peace of mind in a worst-case scenario. They already do this with his "consulting fees" to file tax returns to justify the house, cars, furnishings etc, the money is there to be used for the future instead of just in the moment. They could invest in stocks or even bonds with some of the money he has sitting around currently at zero growth. Just like with Junior earlier though, he's jealously guarding his hoarded wealth, determined to keep complete control over it even if he can't use it. In the first oblique reference to 9/11 made in the episode so far, he claims he won't shift the money considering "what's going on in the world today" but Carmela won't accept that excuse. He warns her there is no money in the house (suggesting she was going to go looking for it) and then grumpily accuses her of something she never said, angrily proclaiming that he provides for his children as if she had accused him of not doing so. Finally losing her own temper, she explains again that the problem isn't whether he does, but that she doesn't know HOW he does. She makes her own oblique 9/11 reference, as she tries to shake him out of his short-term/present day thinking by telling him he only needs to turn on the news to be reminded that everything comes to an end.   As a result, Tony arrives at the Bada Bing the next morning in a foul mood. His money concerns (and his simmering rage at being questioned by Carmela) come to their fore when he spots Georgie dumping ice down the sink, and he snaps at him not to waste it. That should be the end of things, except Georgie can't help but explain himself that the melted ice dilutes the drinks which is why he was dumping it. Silvio tried to warn him to shut up but gives up when he sees the look on Tony's face, deciding to just stay back and let it play out. Tony, livid at being questioned but able to take out the aggression here that he can't on Carmela or Junior, explodes, tossing ice in Georgie's face and battering him with the bucket as he screams,"WASTE IT ALL, JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER!" then tosses the bucket across the stage before declaring,"CONSERVE!" As he leaves, once again we see this kind of violent behavior is nothing new, as the stripper who was cleaning the pole returns to her job once Tony is gone, leaving Georgie lying battered and confused on the floor. He and Silvio leave the Bing through the back door, joined by Christopher who was waiting outside for them. They head across the lot to the back of another building. Inside are the Captains of the Family, summoned for an emergency meeting: Ralph Cifaretto, Albert Barese, Ray Curto and Carlo Gervasi (who replaced Jimmy Altieri). They're laughing and having a good time till Tony walks in, stares directly at them and comes right out with it: why is there zero growth in the Family's receipts? Yes, it seems that all his talk about things being quiet/tough were understatements: barely any new money is coming in right now, and now that others are starting to question him about money he's going to take out his aggression on them. He isn't diplomatic, demanding to know straight up where is the loving money? They're supposed to be earners, they were given top-tier positions based on that and they're not delivering. So he tasks them with going out on the street and FORCING the money to come in. The Captains can only sit with heads hung low, unable to meet his eye, because as much as any of them might have broken his balls in the past or called into question decisions he made, NONE can deny that their primary function is to generate money for the Family and they have NOT been doing that. Yes that may not be entirely their fault, but that doesn't matter, they're in charge and the Boss is demanding results. Tony focuses on Albert, demanding to know what happened with "the guy at the other place", even here making a point of not getting into specifics (if Ray is recording this for the FBI, it would be short on details) which makes him angrier when Albert can only offer back a vague explanation for why things with a Councilman "petered out". Seeing that they're still not quite pushed far enough along to where he wants them, Tony takes an extremely interesting tack. Losing the rage, he puts on a look of bitter disappointment and reminds them that his Uncle (the "Boss" of the Family!) is fighting a legal case for his life and it is eating him up financially. He complains that he is the only one offering Junior financial support (after refusing Junior financial support!) because what they are kicking up is a disgrace. He reminds them that "this thing" has always been a pyramid where poo poo runs downhill and money runs up, and is disgusted that he has to come here, hat in hand, to remind them of their duty to "Junior". It's utter bullshit, and at the very least Ray must know it since he was there when they decided to make Junior their figurehead, but it isn't something that can be argued against. Tony has Silvio remind them that "our thing" is recession-proof, so he doesn't want to hear any excuses about the economy being bad. Tony dismisses them, he has nothing more to say other than that he is "depressed and ashamed" that this is what things have come to. His hypocrisy is quickly demonstrated again in the next scene. He and AJ eat at the table one morning when Carmela comes up from the garage complaining about the shelf down there being loose. Tony declares he'll look at it straight away, passing Meadow coming down the stairs, not showing much enthusiasm at Carmela's query about her registering for next semester's classes. Down in the garage, Tony goes right by the shelf to the back of his car, pulling out a bag stuffed with cash and slipping outside to the shed where he pulls up a stone tile under a mat and dumps the cash in with more plastic-wrapped stacks of bills. Technically speaking I guess he was right, there is no money IN the house anymore.   Back inside, he overhears Carmela telling AJ that Ralphie and Rosalie are coming to Sunday dinner. He's not pleased, reminding her that he told her months ago about not having them over, and she reminds HIM that she asked him about this earlier in the week and he gave a disinterested grunt in response which she took as not a no. He complains that he must have been focused on something else, as if that is Carmela's fault, but she simply replies that be that as it may, it's Rosalie's birthday and she's been down lately, so she wants to cheer her up. The dinner comes, and Rosalie seems calm though still clearly under the influence of prescription drugs even all these months after Jackie Jr's death. Ralphie of course wants to be the center of attention, sitting at the other end of the table from Tony, loudly asking AJ if he ever told him about his Harley. AJ is fascinated of course, as is his schoolfriend Matt, who proudly tells Ralph he wouldn't have been able to outrace his dad's car. Ralph means no offense (he never does) but insists his dad's Boxster is just a Porsche with panties, which causes Janice - sitting across from Rosalie - to bellow with laughter and affectionately slap Ralphie on the arm. He happily regales them all with a story of the time he outraced a doctor in a Turbo Carrera, but he's mostly only got eyes for Janice as he speaks, something that Rosalie - even in her drug-induced state - can't help but notice. As Ralphie explains to the half-Jewish Matt that he won't be offended by Ralphie referring to the doctor as having a "big Jew grin", Carmela warns AJ to stay away from his friend's bike and Tony through a big fake smile makes it clear to Ralphie to stop showboating as he leaps up to demonstrate to Janice the high handlebars his bike had. Ralphie excuses himself to the bathroom and Carmela and Mary get up to clear the places, Janice helpfully asking if they want assistance while staying planted firmly in her chair AND pouring herself a glass of wine. Meanwhile Hugh tries to talk happily about the Vincent Black Shadow that was popular in his youth, only to be undercut as always by Mary who reminds him about how some hoods who rode those bikes beat him up just after he got out of the Navy. Janice of all people actually gives Hugh a bit of dignity back by asking if he saw any action in World War II, and Tony listens with great interest as Hugh talks a little bit about his experience. The doorbell rings and Adriana walks in with "Danielle", horrified that she's interrupted their dinner as she'd only come around to borrow the samovar for her cousin's baby shower. Tony is gracious and more than happy to include them at the table and Carmela warmly agrees, but they beg off, though Adriana does introduce Danielle (who can't believe her lucky stars to be face-to-face with Tony) who compliments Carmela on the house while Tony's eyes are all over her, he also clearly likes what he sees. Upstairs, Ralphie's bathroom break is actually an excuse to make up some lines of the coke he claimed to have kicked, and he gets irritated when there's a knock on the door and Janice refuses to go away. Finally he lets her in and she makes a beeline for the coke, she was convinced that was what he was coming up here for and she wants some. She snorts a line and he follows suit, noting that he's worried about Rosalie's medication not working. While Rosalie in dazed slow-motion downstairs shows Danielle the loggia, Tony can't help but notice the absence of both his sister and Ralphie. Upstairs, Janice strokes Ralphie's back and, after token resistance, he turns and pulls her tight to him, crotch pressing against her and making her moan in pleasure.... remember when Ralphie told Tony that coke makes him do stupid things?   Later in the week, Tony goes to the Wild Bird Center where he buys cracked corn for the ducks in spite of the season being all wrong. Paying the clerk to take it to his car, he heads next door to Italianissimo where he meets with Assemblyman Zellman for a coffee and finally gets some good financial news. The legislature has voted to refund the special Newark Development District along Frelinghuysen Avenue. That vote has guaranteed the construction of a hotel with a galleria mall on the first floor, in order to get ahead of the demographic shift from Hoboken and Down Neck: it's gentrification which means money, which means the property down there is going to become EXTREMELY valuable. Tony considers this, remembering that his father had a piece of a garbage transfer station in lower Manhattan in the 70s but didn't capitalize on advice to buy up surrounding properties which eventually became Tribeca. This is Tony's chance to make big (and legitimate) money in a way his father failed, and Zellman admits he's already heavily borrowing cash himself to make purchases through a shell company. But Tony? He's a private citizen, he can buy whatever he wants provided he has the money. In spite of Tony's protests to Carmela and the Captains, he certainly does have the ability to put cash into things when he wants to, and he's already got an idea how to kill two birds with one stone. One again he meets with Junior at Doctor Schreck's practice, Junior again flirting with the nurse, going so far as to ask her to go to Atlantic City with him in a couple of months when his "busy" time is over. He's disappointed to hear today is her last day but lets her go with a smile, and she passes by Tony once again offering him a look he interprets as flirtatious, which helps his ego a great deal. Junior has requested this meeting with Tony not to ask for money, but to inform him how he is looking to put his own ship in order. Murf Lupo has been running his operations but Junior is worried he's become too old. So he'd decided to put Bobby in charge instead, an idea Tony approves of, though Junior makes it clear he is TELLING Tony, not asking him. Tony lets that pass, it is his crew after all, but since Bobby doesn't know he suggests bringing him in to give him the good news. Shortly after, Schreck walks up to the exam room at HIS practice and sees the three inside talking. They cast him a dirty look for intruding on his own clinic and shut the door in his face. Back at home, Tony uses cracked corn to hide the money he was keeping in the shed. The ducks that symbolized his family and the pure, sweet innocence he longed for them to keep has now turned into another device for him to mask his crime and to continue to hide things from that same family. He puts the bags into the storage container and padlocks it shut, turning with satisfaction only to be surprised by Carmela walking by to cut some tomatoes. She notes that it's odd to get bird feed this late in the season, and he replies with something too stupid to be a deliberate lie, he must surely believe it: for Canadian ducks, New Jersey is south! At the Captains meeting, one person was prominent by their absence: Paulie Gualtieri. The reason why is shown now, he's in prison! In Ohio! Cutting off another prisoner off before he can get to the phone, then puts in a collect call to... Johnny Sack? After their brief encounter outside Vesuvio's after Jackie Jr's funeral, Johnny Sack has cultivated the relationship further. He gets the basics of Paulie's imprisonment from him: he was visiting an old associate in Ohio and they were pulled over in Steubenville for no left blinker. A gun found inside the car connected to an outstanding murder, and Paulie is in prison until the prosecutor can prove his case (or not) or somebody else admits to the murder. He's pissed that Tony will only talk to him through middlemen, while Johnny isn't only willing to talk to him one-on-one, but actually went out of his way to get Paulie's nephew Little Paulie Germani to pass on his well-wishes and desire to talk. He thanks Johnny for asking if he can do anything to help but just having his support is all he needs. He warns another prisoner not to switch from Jerry Springer on the TV and says goodbye to Johnny, who hangs up satisfied that he's continued to develop an asset high up in Tony's organization.   That night, Carmela is busying cooking the tomatoes that Tony seemed so enthused about earlier when he calls to tell her (not apologize, simply tell her) that he has to work late tonight. She's not happy and of course he turns this around on her by reminding her that she is concerned about their finances but this type of thing is how he makes his money. He makes a kiss and she reciprocates at least, but after he hangs up she's clearly irritated as she shuts off the stove. Tony's "business" is to celebrate the inevitable influx of cash from this latest Esplanade decision, the potential for money from the properties they'll be buying up is gigantic enough that even Carmine Lupertazzi is in attendance, along with Christopher, Ralphie and Johnny. Now that they're flush again it's back to celebrating in excess, and of course everybody is happy and loves each other very much again now that money is lubricating everything. They're cheered even more when Furio arrives at their hotel room with a group of stewardesses from Icelandic Air, who have been convinced to come party with the rich dudes who are more than happy to ply them with expensive alcohol and drugs. Carmine, all business, asks if there is any more Esplanade information he needs and, since there is not, is done with the meeting and eager to head home, with no interest in the women. He asks after Junior and tells Tony to pass on his well-wishes (Tony appreciates that and knows Junior will too, just like Paulie deeply appreciates having been told Carmine said the same about him), but he does have one parting shot to make. Johnny told him he attended a cookout at Tony's, and Carmine makes a comment that apparently a real life Mafia associate made to David Chase himself,"A Don doesn't wear shorts." This puts Tony off a little, feeling like he's just been insulted in some way, but he puts that behind him as Carmine and Johnny leave, turning his attention to the women. Later that evening, with alcohol and money thrown around in excess, two of the women make out on the bed while Tony watches and smokes a cigar. They keep casting looks his way, making sure he is watching but also seeing how far they have to go: they're not quite on the same level of discomfort as the two Asian strippers who put on a lesbian show after Christopher was Made, but this is still two attractive young women who are putting on a display for a fat middle-aged guy who mistakes his money and power for raw sexual chemistry. In the bathroom, Christopher prepares a heroin-laced cigarette to share with another of the stewardesses, but after taking a drag he's surprised by a sudden knock on the door by Tony, who demands that they leave. He quickly flushes the cigarette and gets dressed, joining Tony who gives no response when he asks what is going on. They leave the hotel room, a naked Ralphie passed out on the couch, Furio nowhere to be seen. As they drive, Christopher is feeling paranoia from both the drugs as well as Tony's demeanor, not helped by a vehicle clearly following close behind them that Tony seems uninterested in despite his usual precautions. Tony asks if he learned anything, reminding him he just attended a sit-down with two Bosses, the implication being that he should have been picking up on what was said and unsaid (that shorts line especially), the power dynamics etc. Christopher instead complains that it is obvious that Tony has a big problem with him, and Tony doesn't dispute that, just sternly giving him directions on where to go. At Junior's, Murf tries to sneak out but Junior isn't asleep and forces him to stay. Murf takes a call, his reactions making Junior more concerned, especially when he hangs up and takes a moment to stroke his chin before unhelpfully offering that it was Melvoin on the phone. So what? What did he have to say? Almost as an afterthought, Murf explains that he shouldn't use Doctor Schreck's practice to talk anymore, the FBI had an undercover Agent in there for months! Junior lets this sink in and then collapses back on the couch as he replays every meeting he had there in his head, everything he said, everybody he met with, and realizes that he just might be hosed. Tony has Christopher pull up across the road from a bar, and Christopher's paranoia deepens when he realizes the car that was following them was being driven by Bobby. Tony gestures across the road to the bar, and then tells Christopher something that momentarily sobers him right the gently caress up: the person who killed his father is in there. At first he laughs, but when Tony doesn't his face falls and he turns to look back, disbelief and rage at war as Tony lays it all out for him. Barry Haydu - a Detective Lieutenant in the Clifton Police Force - killed his father at the behest of Jilly Rufalo to get out of a gambling debt. Jilly had a grudge against Dickie for tracking him down and gouging his eye out after Jilly stabbed Dickie's former cellmate to death. All of this information fills in gaps in Christopher's knowledge, the few things he's ever been able to find out in spite of people's reluctance to speak about it to him. He'd always been told a cop killed Dickie outside his house carrying a crib for baby Christopher, over something to do with somebody's eye. Tony agrees to all of this, but admits it wasn't a crib but some TV trays... but it could have easily been a crib! The point is that Dickie was loyal, and Haydu has only lived this long because he retained use as a Police Detective the mob had dirt on. But he retired today, his usefulness is at an end... and now Christopher can do with this information what he wishes. He passes him a sheet of paper with Haydu's address on it, wishes him good luck, then gets out of the car and joins Bobby, the two driving away and leaving Christopher to consider his next move.   Later Haydu returns to his home - bought with cash - for the start of a whole new phase in his life... and gets knocked out by an intruder. He wakes groggily to find himself handcuffed to the stairs, a clearly high Christopher sitting on the couch watching Magnum P.I. Christopher, pretending to just be a junkie who was looking to rob him and is pissed there was nothing WORTH robbing, points out his gun and badge but dismisses Haydu's attempts to use his police status to intimidate him, saying he also found the engraved gold watch saying he was now retired. He looks around the mostly empty house and says his wife must have got it all in the divorce, looking at the sole photo of Haydu's daughter on the mantel and pressing his gun idly against it. Haydu tries to reason with him, if he'll untie him and hand over his gun then he'll do everything in his power to help him, and Christopher nods and says they'll come back to that... but first he wants to talk about Dickie Moltisanti. Haydu's reaction speaks volumes regardless of his reply. Bobby and Tony stop at a diner for a meal, Tony trying to eat healthy but unable to take his eyes off of Bobby's much tastier looking meal, until finally he orders a steak to go with his own eggs and tomatoes. They discuss Bobby's promotion, but he's unfazed by the extra responsibility, fully confident in his ability to deliver and even feeling it is somewhat overdue. Tony is a little surprised by his confidence but doesn't question it, and asks after his family given his father's death the previous year. Bobby admits it has been rough on his mother and Tony asks about her age, and while it is difficult to get into his head I think he is angling to Bobby to reciprocate and ask him how HE is doing following the death of his mother, even if only so he can insist he is doing fine. In any case, Bobby says his mother really went downhill after the World Trade Center, and then undoes a lot of the good work he'd done impressing Tony by suddenly declaring that Quasimodo predicted all of this. A rather hilarious scene follows as they have an "argument" over Nostradamus and Notre Dame, with Bobby saying it's curious how you have a hunchback of Notre Dame, but also a halfback and a quarterback! Yeah sure one is a cathedral and the others are a college, but even so! Haydu continues to try to talk Christopher out of killing him, insisting he knows nothing about any of this and that he's either got faulty information or somebody is playing him. Christopher, sweaty and getting increasingly aggressive as the drugs mix with his heightened emotional state, is already incorporating new information into the narrative in his head: now he "remembers" that Dickie was bringing home a TV tray specifically to give to his son to eat food while watching television, only for this rear end in a top hat Haydu to kill him. Haydu continues to protest his innocence, warning Christopher he is being set up... and can't believe it when Christopher considers this for a moment and then retorts that it doesn't matter if he is. Either way, the person who told him wants Haydu dead, and that's all that matters. Ignoring Haydu's attempts to bribe him with his boat (the only asset he has outside the house) he switches his gun for Haydu's and cranks up the volume on the television, checking the door is locked, and Haydu realizes it is over. Taking Christopher's brief absence as his only chance, he tears the post out of the stairwell he is cuffed to and scrambles in terror to hide behind the couch. He shouts,"I'M SORRY! I'M SORRY!" before Christopher shoots him in the head twice with his own gun, then wipes it clean and places it in his hand to make it look like a suicide brought about by retirement. He goes through Haydu's wallet which has only a single $20 bill in it. He comes to a disgusted realization, that the man who killed his legendary father was a complete loser, and he leaves with none of the closure he might have hoped for. Did Haydu actually kill Dickie? I'd say he probably did, based on the difference in how he talked/acted the moment Dickie was brought up. Him begging,"I'M SORRY!" before he died would seem to indicate the same too but that could easily be explained away by his desperation to live. But his initial reaction to Dickie's name felt trained, like he'd learned by rote over the years to answer in a particular way, much like Tony's own pat,"Waste management consultant" response whenever asked what he does for a living. But Christopher's final point to Haydu is the more important one: it doesn't matter. Whether Haydu killed Dickie is irrelevant, what is relevant is that Christopher was told he did and it was made clear Haydu was meant to die. Christopher did his job there, and if he hadn't then somebody else would have... at least this way he could feel good about it.   Carmela sits in bed watching television where she sees a story about an armed robbery of an armored car in which one of the robbers was killed, and is believed to have ties to organized crime. Only able to think about Tony and her earlier statement that "everything ends", she buries her head in her hands. Tony and Bobby come up through the basement of Junior's house, bumping into Murf who wandered down when he heard their voices. He belatedly offers them two rather crucial bits of information: Bobby's wife Karen is there making Junior a meal now, and she's there because Junior had a rough night due to some bad information... which he proceeds not to give them until Tony prompts him, and is shocked when he learned of the Undercover Agent. They rush up the stairs, where Junior is pissed off that his house has become "loving Grand Central Station!" then mumbles an apology to Karen when Bobby points out his kids are there. Bobby's son is pleased to see his dad and want to talk, but Bobby tells him to hold off for a moment while his son just wants to goggle over the fact that Junior doesn't even have cable! Murf, who has been so difficult to get information out of, freely offers that Junior thought he might be suffering a heart attack but then passed gas and was fine! Tony whispers to Junior that he heard what happened and while it is bad, it isn't something they can't get over. Karen, sensing business talk is coming, says that she'll take the kids home now and they all bid her a fond farewell, Junior thanking her for being so helpful. Once they're gone, they turn back to business, Junior saying it must have been the nurse ("that piece of tail") who did it. Tony hadn't considered this, and thinks back to his own brief encounters with her when he was so sure she was flirting with him. He acknowledges she could have reported the meetings themselves but not anything actually said in them, and Junior points out that he better hope not since he was involved in every single one. Tony, mad at himself, takes it out on Junior, blaming him for falling for "that flirty poo poo" without acknowledging that he fell for it just as hard. He dismisses Murf and Bobby both, and because he simply can't help himself he does the same thing that Junior did to him when he was off-balance by the reveal of his Uncle Ercole. He has decided, out of the kindness of his heart, to change his mind and help him out with his legal expenses. He has "remembered" that Junior owns an empty garage on Frelinghuysen Avenue that he hasn't been able to sell... Tony will "take it off his hands" for 100k so he can pay his experts for their testimony. Junior asks what he is going to do with it and Tony complains that he's trying to help him out, he doesn't even know what he'll do with it (flip it for an enormous profit, of course!). Junior agrees, saying at this point what does it matter, and this does genuinely concern Tony. Junior is still kicking himself though, a young "cooze" smiled at him and "birds started chirping", his instincts failed him. Tony tries to make light of it, calling him The Amazing Kreskin and insisting he eat the food Karen made him to make him feel better. But Junior can't let go of it, questioning what he said to her, remembering he asked her to go to Atlantic City with him, horrified at the thought of having to sit across from her at the trial. Finally he offers his depressing summation of who he is,"An old man that's going to trial... not much else to say about me."  Tony goes to therapy, the first in a little while due to Melfi's recent vacation. He admits to feeling depressed despite things being good, especially with Carmela. But he started pushing him about the future of her and the children if anything ever happened to him, pushing him to buy bonds or do something. Melfi notes that in the current climate many people are concerned for their futures, and Tony cuts her off to tell her something he would never admit to Carmela: he knows she was right, that every single thing she told him was completely on the money. So why never admit that? Because that opens the door to her pushing a little further, to asking more about where the money is, how much, how is it being spent or saved or laundered etc. He insists yet again that she and the kids' futures are secured, but the larger point is that she's still right to be worried, and it bothers him because he's been thinking the exact same thing from a slightly different tangent, snapped into focus by what just happened to Junior. There are two ways that things end for high profile guys like Tony: jail or death. Even with "all this terrorism poo poo" the Government still has massive resources targeting organized crime, but as he points this out she cuts him off to make a point he has never even once considered his entire life: why not just... give it up? Just... stop. He already said Carmela and the kids' futures were secured, he owns his house and more luxury items than he knows what to do with. Why not just not be a mobster anymore? But no, he never considered that for a moment, instead he focused on the third way, something rarely seen but sometimes pulled off.... to rely on family. Not through their love and support, but through their unshakeable loyalty in business. He cites another mobster who stayed in charge and out of jail, living the good life in Florida till he was 81 years old, because he only ever gave orders through his son. This surprises her given what he's said about AJ, and he laughs at that idea. He explains his plan to her and she is confused, he's basically just told her that he plans to do the same thing that Uncle Junior did with him, and that sure as hell didn't work out well. Tony is amused at the comparison, after all at 42 he is already far more successful than his Uncle ever was in his entire life... and the most obvious and shallow example he can offer is the difference between their houses. Rather than confront him on this, she simply asks the other obvious question: why is he telling her this? He takes a moment and then finally admits that he doesn't know... maybe it's because he trusts her? So what was his plan? It was to rely on a guy who has gotten his act together, who Tony has carefully been nurturing a closer relationship with the last few months, making their bond inseparable: Christopher. Yes, the angry glares, the sullen silences, the forcing him to drive him around like an errand boy again... Tony has thought of all of these as bonding sessions, of strengthening their relationship. Giving him Haydu was supposed to cement that bond forever, and he's now completely convinced that Christopher is firmly in his pocket. He is apparently completely unaware of Christopher's ongoing drug use, of the growing resentment of feeling like he is under his uncle's thumb. Melfi nailed it immediately and Tony discounted her valid criticism without a second thought: he is simply largely repeating the same cycle he went through with Junior, while thinking he has found some genius new method to defeat the Government. There's a reason most guys in his position end up dead or in jail, and you can be sure that almost all of them thought they'd found some clever workaround nobody else has ever thought of. The man in question sits in his mother's kitchen, smoking a cigarette and looking at the photographs on the refrigerator, surrounded by a number of AA slogans/stickers designed to remind her of her ongoing battle to maintain sobriety. Played here for the first time by Marianne Leone Cooper who would play her for the rest of the series, she wanders into the kitchen and is given a fright to see her son sitting there with a picture of Dickie on the table. Christopher has been pondering the father he only knows through pictures. He asks after his sister Connie's boy, shocked when he realizes the photo of a fat kid on the fridge is her son. His mother agrees, 8 years old and already with a weight problem, somehow having decided that the fact he was never baptized is the reason why. He gives her a hug, saying he was hoping she'd make him a fluffernutter, and she grins until she realizes he got close so he could smell her breath for alcohol. Pissed off, she tells him he's smelling mouthwash, then notices the picture of Dickie on the table. He asks if she misses him and, still pissed off, she asks if he means whenever Dickie was in prison, or since he's been dead. She points out she never saddled Christopher with a stepfather by remarrying, but her anger fades as he doesn't rise to the bait or get angry, just sits and looks between the picture and the floor.   Feeling mildly guilty, she goes to the fridge but then remembers she hasn't kept peanut butter in the house since he moved out, and asks if he wants French Toast instead. He declines, deciding it is time to go home, and gives her a hug and kiss, joking that she needs to watch out she doesn't start drinking again or he'll give her a shot in the head. Her sarcastic reply indicates she's far more aware than Tony is that he's back on drugs, but she doesn't push it further. As he goes, she makes her way to the table and briefly looks at the photo of her dead husband, then places it face down on the table, unable to look further either out of sorrow or anger. As she drinks her tea, unnoticed behind her Christopher removes the $20 he took from Haydu's corpse and sticks it to her fridge door. The camera closes in on the money as the credits roll over it and World Destruction plays one more time, one of only two instances where the credits don't play over a black screen. This is Christopher's perhaps futile gesture, one last attempt at the closure he didn't feel when he killed the man who supposedly killed his father. That emptiness, that inability to fill the void inside of him, will throw all Tony Soprano's carefully laid plans out of whack, and spiral out ever further to affect many others over the course of this season and those that follow, in some cases fatally. Season 4: For All Debts Public and Private | No Show | Christopher | The Weight | Pie-O-My | Everybody Hurts | Watching Too Much Television | Mergers and Acquisitions | Whoever Did This | The Strong, Silent Type | Calling All Cars | Eloise | Whitecaps Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2019 13:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtW0e-JW8Cc This is a really good video S4E1 is really, really good. I love opening and ending the episode on World Destruction. Again, I love how the show's editing can reveal such clear double-facedness on the characters. Tony talks to Junior and tells him that things are fine and they are how they are, and he dares not give Junior any more money, and then turns around and berates the poo poo out of his captains for not kicking up enough to Junior like he deserves. HE isn't gonna fix things, but THEY should. Yeah, chain of command, but still. Similarly, Paulie calling up Johnny Sack and ratting about the joke on his wife right away. And clearly looking for something in return.
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Jul 7, 2019 02:02
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I just wanted to say Jerusalem, thanks so much for doing these! I'm rewatching each episode after reading your summaries but I'm still back on s3e2. I seriously have no idea how many times I've watched this show in its entirety, but reading your recaps and the other comments before each one is giving me a lot of new things to think about. Salud!
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Jul 7, 2019 02:07
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While I'm not as conflicted on what the series finale means as I used to be, Tony has to be thinking that even if he made way more money than Junior ever did Junior's current situation is probably his most likely future .
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Jul 7, 2019 18:21
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Finished The Sopranos Sessions and it was...OK. I guess the recaps I'm reading here spoiled me because that was my least favorite part of the book and it constituted the bulk of it. The 7 part interview with Chase was much better. The recaps seemed too fast and prone to selectively focusing on whatever the writer felt was worth mentioning rather than going beat by beat. They skip a ton of relevant stuff. Also confirmed that the nurse was the undercover in Junior's doctor's office but...why did the FBI pull her out so suddenly? I remember getting an odd vibe from her the first time I watched it and she shows up in court later but I still can't figure out why she spent so little time there. I love how Chris shifts the story from his old man toting a crib to a TV tray in order to maintain the narrative and make his father more sympathetic by saying his dad was "carrying a tray so that I could watch TV" or something like that.
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Jul 7, 2019 19:37
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Dawgstar posted:While I'm not as conflicted on what the series finale means as I used to be, Tony has to be thinking that even if he made way more money than Junior ever did Junior's current situation is probably his most likely future . I think the big difference between Tony and his uncle is that Tony has a wife and kids while Junior never married and has no heirs. Tony's a selfish prick, but he's also very protective and loving towards both his children. One of the things I like about the show is how it focuses on the fallout on the family when a mobster dies. Dickie's death influences Christopher from beyond the grave. We see the entitlement of Jackie Jr who always saw himself following in his fathers footsteps. We see what happens to lil Vito after his dad gets it. The very first episode, Tony's talking about how he feels like he came in at the end, because he had to fill his fathers shoes and saw the shifting of the generational guard. The show's very much about legacies and the good/damage they cause. One way or another, Tony's fate is already sealed, as is the legacy he left for his children.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:24
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BiggerBoat posted:Also confirmed that the nurse was the undercover in Junior's doctor's office but...why did the FBI pull her out so suddenly? I remember getting an odd vibe from her the first time I watched it and she shows up in court later but I still can't figure out why she spent so little time there. To be fair, they do say she had been there for months, it only feels short to us because we only see Junior's last two visits. Season 3 ends in January of 2001 and season 4 picks up at some point after 9/11 so there's a fairly extensive period of time gap there. I do find it interesting how they acknowledge that stretch of time in some places but kind of act in others like it has only been a couple months or so since the end of season 3. I wonder how much was written before the attacks and how much got rewritten/reworked during the production? MrMojok posted:Salud! Thanks! And of course I can't hear that without thinking of this beautiful scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SJtCGkDJMU
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Jul 8, 2019 06:29
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Zaphod42 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtW0e-JW8Cc Tony railing to his Captains is my favorite mob scene in the show. Great performance by both Tony and Gandolfini. "...the BOSS of this family..." 
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Jul 8, 2019 09:09
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Great write up. When tony can tell Chris is all hosed up and uses him being more triggered by the sombrero to his advantage “Is that him?? With the sombrero on???”  “Kinda hard to tell from here... yeah, probably!” 
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Jul 8, 2019 17:06
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crazy eyes mustafa posted:Great write up. When tony can tell Chris is all hosed up and uses him being more triggered by the sombrero to his advantage You get the same thing from how his dad actually died, which I thought was SUCH a realistic thing. Chris "and he got shot on the front lawn, carrying a baby carriage for me?" Tony ".... yeah. I mean..... no..... no, it wasn't a baby carriage. It was some TV trays....... but..... coulda..... coulda just as easily been a baby carriage yeah" The way the story grew over the years, the way Chris' heard it told it was romanticized, the memory had been altered; that's so human. Chris himself wasn't really there to see it or remember it, so he just had to go off what people told him. And Tony knows better so he corrects him, but then he also thinks better of it and realizes he can use this to egg him on that much more.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:21
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Zaphod42 posted:You get the same thing from how his dad actually died, which I thought was SUCH a realistic thing. I guess maybe its good Chris has a daughter later, because that would just set up this cycle happening again in 20 years.
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Jul 8, 2019 22:41
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Zaphod42 posted:
And then moments later when he has the cop at gunpoint he says "You shot him while he was carrying some TV trays so I could watch TV!" He instantly recontexualizes the new information so that the image of his father isn't completely shattered. When he finally does see his father for what he really was it is Tony who seems to have difficulties processing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9COLaIu0YU
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Jul 9, 2019 09:02
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The repudiation of his father is also a repudiation of Tony, and Dickie was to Tony as Tony is to Chris, so it’s a double punch in the gut for T. His mentor is being taken down and so is his mentorship. It’s a great indicator of how far their relationship has deteriorated- Chris just has no love for Tony at that point but won’t say it, but Tony is acutely aware.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:09
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Considering the Sopranos prequel movie is supposed to heavily feature Christopher's father Dickie, we may actually get a definitive answer on how much Tony was bullshitting him about his father's killer. I definitely got strong vibes that Tony wasn't being honest with him the last time I watched, though I didn't pick up on the cop's reaction to Dickie's name in the same way Jerusalem did so maybe I need to rewatch.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:17
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The Ninth Layer posted:Considering the Sopranos prequel movie is supposed to heavily feature Christopher's father Dickie, we may actually get a definitive answer on how much Tony was bullshitting him about his father's killer. I definitely got strong vibes that Tony wasn't being honest with him the last time I watched, though I didn't pick up on the cop's reaction to Dickie's name in the same way Jerusalem did so maybe I need to rewatch. Like good lies, I think parts of it were true. Dickie was shot carrying TV trays into the house and the cop had outlived his usefulness, but these were very possibly unrelated otherwise.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:51
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For me it's just the timing always seemed super convenient for Tony. He needed a guy to act as the go-between, needed a bone to throw to Christopher to make him loyal, and it just so happens "Dickie's killer" becomes a safe target.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:57
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