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K8.0 posted:I'd absolutely call that huge. 5% average gaming performance delta for likely well under 5% total cost increase is an incredibly good deal. You can almost never hit, never mind exceed 1:1 performance gains spending money on PCs. There's no way I'd build a new Zen2 system (other than maybe a 3600) and not buy 3600/3733 based on that. It is odd that Witcher 3 doesn't show any scaling because traditionally it's been one of the games with the most extreme memory bandwidth scaling, but the picture as a whole is good. Certainly worth it to avoid 2400, which they chose as there baseline, but not many rational people were going to buy 2400 anyway, since 3000/3200 have been essentially the same price for a while now. However, in the last week I've seen multiple posts from people who preemptively bought >= 3600 RAM for pretty insane markups. My recollection is something like $175 for 16GB which is almost triple the price for what looks to be a 1-2% cost difference and a pretty big waste of money in my book.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:06
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Probably people outside the US. In the US, you can easily get 32GB for that much. There is a price difference, and while it doesn't look good when you're JUST comparing the cost of the RAM to the performance delta (it might be 20% more expensive), it's in fact the total cost of the system (or at least the CPU/motherboard/ram subsystem) vs total performance of it that matters, and there ram is clearly an amazing deal. For example, the gaming performance difference between a 3700X and a 3900X is (and will remain) far smaller, but it costs many, many times more than upgrading the RAM.
K8.0 fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 20:12
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Man based on that GN review, the biggest problem for the 3700X/3800X is that the 3600 exists. Beats the 2700X in nearly every game, ties or is close to the 8700K, and is gonna be nearly identical to the 3700X/3800X. 3600 + sub $100 B450 board + 3200 ram seems like the go-to value gaming combo right now. There are rumors that the 9600k is going to get a cut to $200, which would make things interesting as it def would be faster in games across the board, but 6/6 seems like a potential limiter these days if you plan on keeping it a long time.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:14
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K8.0 posted:Still want to see benchmarks that are actually meaningful for the 3700X+ vs Intel (where no one in their right mind building a new system is going to settle for 3200mhz ram). This is a reductive statement. I’m going to settle for 3200mhz ram on a 3700X because I’ve bought the system piecemeal; selling my old Intel parts before their value tanks and building eventual 3000 parts with a cheap Micro Center 1600 while I wait.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:21
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K8.0 posted:I'd absolutely call that huge. 5% average gaming performance delta for likely well under 5% total cost increase is an incredibly good deal. You can almost never hit, never mind exceed 1:1 performance gains spending money on PCs. There's no way I'd build a new Zen2 system (other than maybe a 3600) and not buy 3600/3733 based on that. It is odd that Witcher 3 doesn't show any scaling because traditionally it's been one of the games with the most extreme memory bandwidth scaling, but the picture as a whole is good. It's only 5% if you didn't bother to enable xmp or forget to plug in a second stick. I'd guess 3200CL16 is 1-1.5% behind 3600CL16 at a fraction of the price.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:38
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Cygni posted:3600 + sub $100 B450 board + 3200 ram seems like the go-to value gaming combo right now. There are rumors that the 9600k is going to get a cut to $200, which would make things interesting as it def would be faster in games across the board, but 6/6 seems like a potential limiter these days if you plan on keeping it a long time.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:40
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Khorne posted:If you get micron rev.e sticks, like 3000 C15, they'll overclock to 3600 C16 and cost peanuts ($30-$35 per 8gb stick, $60-$70 for 16gb). That's what most goons and reddit nerds have been advocating buying. For bigtime nerds, for sure. For recommending to average users, anything beyond "turn the XMP on" is probably a bridge too far. Hell, turn XMP on is probably too far. I was digging through some benchmark databases and straight up like 90% of users were running their high tier memory kits at JEDEC. Not even exaggerating.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:45
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Sininu posted:Uuh, would picking a good B450 mobo for 3700X and 3200Mhz memory be a decent idea now that we have all this info? Take this with a grain of salt, but from what we have seen, there should be absolutely no issues, assuming the board has been flashed for 3000. Though, depending on what you are doing, the 3600 might actually be a better choice for gaming as you get mostly the same performance for much less cost.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:46
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Cygni posted:For bigtime nerds, for sure. For recommending to average users, anything beyond "turn the XMP on" is probably a bridge too far. Hell, turn XMP on is probably too far. I was digging through some benchmark databases and straight up like 90% of users were running their high tier memory kits at JEDEC. Not even exaggerating. Can confirm I only learned about "turn the XMP on" a week or so ago, before then I'd have gone 'huh?' even regarding that.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:50
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Sininu posted:Uuh, would picking a good B450 mobo for 3700X and 3200Mhz memory be a decent idea now that we have all this info? Sure, if -you run at stock clocks and whatever they call AMD Boost 3.0 now -the mainboard Bios can be updated through an USB stick, without a CPU present (3000 series and old Bios would likely not boot) some vendors offer to do this update at their shop DDR4-3200 CL16 is mass market Ram now. No reason to go any slower. DDR4-3600 CL17 is a small step up for 2x8GB. For 3600 2x16 you'll need to drop to CL 18 or even 19 to not break the bank, at that point you might aswell stay with 3200 CL16 The stock 3700X looks to be the perfect allround CPU with no more gaming weakness, and no gambling on 6 cores being enough for the next 5 years. sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 21:06
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/me slowly raises hand I’m one of the dumbasses that went and bought 3600 C16 B.Die ram before reviews came out. $200 for 2x8 sticks  I figured I’d rather be safe than sorry. Now that I’ve seen the reviews I’ll just return it for 2x16 sticks at 3200 unless other reviews / findings come out that change my mind.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:06
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xgalaxy posted:/me slowly raises hand Historically, there hasn't been a cost-effective reason to go bleeding edge on memory. Yes, it's more important with Zen CPU's, especially when compared to Intel, but the differences in performance are more or less negligible for average users.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:10
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Made the ram mistake as well but I guess I'll just put it into this 1700 system because that b-die might actually work above 2666 unlike this current 3200 kit that refuses to cooperate with zen1, meanwhile it seems zen 2 should gladly take this problem ram and run it with no big issues.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:13
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General caution that while newly made 4XX boards should support Zen2 out of the box, it will take a while for them to enter distribution channels and they'll intermingle with older boards for a while, making ordering ones online potentially hazardous. When Zen+ came out microcenter had tons of B350 open box boards as only the ones with the "Zen2000 ready" stickers had been flashed and they were identical besides said sticker.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:22
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What’s the consensus on trying to overclock a 3600 on a Tomahawk b450? As long as I have a good fan will it remain stable?
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Jul 7, 2019 21:29
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Dramicus posted:Historically, there hasn't been a cost-effective reason to go bleeding edge on memory. Yes, it's more important with Zen CPU's, especially when compared to Intel, but the differences in performance are more or less negligible for average users. This is folk wisdom that’s not really correct, it’s been worthwhile since the ddr3 days. 2133 performed a lot better than 1600 and especially 1333.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:32
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Paul MaudDib posted:This is folk wisdom that’s not really correct, it’s been worthwhile since the ddr3 days. 2133 performed a lot better than 1600 and especially 1333. Worthwhile is really subjective when you factor in price vs performance. Especially when most of the gains are completely unnoticeable if you are on a 60hz monitor.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:35
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Assuming I want to drop in either a 3700x or 3900x into my ASUS CH7 mobo to replace a 2700x, do I need to upgrade my memory from this 3200 14cl Samsung b-die for max performance? https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/0RN-001W-004X1
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Jul 7, 2019 21:54
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It's b die, it's likely to overclock well.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:58
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eames posted:der8auer video up early it seems Thats disappointing when the 9900k can hit 5.0 ghz on all cores. Still, the price is worth it unless you game on a high refresh rate monitor. But if you're gaming on a high refresh rate monitor the premium of a 9900k doesn't seem that far fetched. edit: Not a knock on AMD, I just wanted a 12 core @ 5.0 Ghz. Rabid Snake fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 22:03
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:It's b die, it's likely to overclock well. What should I be shooting for? 3600 is the sweet spot no?
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Jul 7, 2019 22:08
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Bonobos posted:What should I be shooting for? 3600 is the sweet spot no? They'll be a lot of ryzen users with b die 3200 posting results soon. I'll be aiming for 3600, hopefully early x570 bioses won't be borked.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:12
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I'm changing my opinion on some of the stuff I posted. I'm probably keeping my mugen 5 rev b. The der8auer video was great. Now I'm even more on the fence when it comes to 3700x vs 3900x. Bonobos posted:Assuming I want to drop in either a 3700x or 3900x into my ASUS CH7 mobo to replace a 2700x, do I need to upgrade my memory from this 3200 14cl Samsung b-die for max performance? Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 22:14
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Yeah, that low latency 3200 is roughly on par with 3600 with loose timings: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/3.html
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Jul 7, 2019 22:18
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Does it seem weird that there wasn't a need to launch with 5 processors. I feel like 4 tops, more likely 3 would have been better.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:26
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As a small form factor user, I feel #blessed, as the 3600 and 3700X are my only options
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Jul 7, 2019 22:29
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I didn't pay attention to first Ryzen launch but did clock rates improve over time due to binning/refining? Is there hope of 4.5ghz all core 3900X if I just wait it out a few months?
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Jul 7, 2019 22:34
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Wonder when silicon lottery will post oc results?
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Jul 7, 2019 22:44
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pootiebigwang posted:What’s the consensus on trying to overclock a 3600 on a Tomahawk b450? As long as I have a good fan will it remain stable? The consensus is to not overclock a zen3000 at all. It's not worth the trouble nor the increased heat output.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:55
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Pretty much. Hardware Unboxed fried his 3900X from which he thinks was LLC related. You're probably better off using PBO.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:01
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Zotix posted:Does it seem weird that there wasn't a need to launch with 5 processors. I feel like 4 tops, more likely 3 would have been better. The entire computer part industry is built around having an upgrade at every $10-20 increase. The extra chips just fill in the gaps for people who want to spend more.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:04
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Wonder when silicon lottery will post oc results? Khorne fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 23:15
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Khorne posted:There are huge thermal issues, even delidded on a custom loop. There's not really any OC potential right now outside of LN2 and maybe chillers. has anyone run the numbers on undervolting? It is a new process after all, maybe AMD is being overly conservative with the voltages.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:20
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Harik posted:has anyone run the numbers on undervolting? It is a new process after all, maybe AMD is being overly conservative with the voltages.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:24
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Anyone preordered / queued up at B&H? Newegg has the Asus WS X570 In stock so I snagged that at least.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:46
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movax posted:Anyone preordered / queued up at B&H? I have no clue about x570 boards, how did you decide on that one?
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Jul 7, 2019 23:49
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Has anyone spotted some benchmarks regarding single PC gaming/streaming setups? I am wondering if the 3900x performs well if you dedicate 4 cores to streaming or if there are any inter-chiplet shenanigans that could tank performance regarding the remaining 8 cores.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:50
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I haven't bought my mobo yet, just the 3900x. Is like to hear about what mobos people went with as well.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:59
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mcbexx posted:Has anyone spotted some benchmarks regarding single PC gaming/streaming setups? I am wondering if the 3900x performs well if you dedicate 4 cores to streaming or if there are any inter-chiplet shenanigans that could tank performance regarding the remaining 8 cores. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZAqV6yo2vo&t=629s Note: Reviewer mentioned in a comment that this particular test was done on the veryfast preset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLwbhxckfqc&t=231s
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Jul 8, 2019 00:04
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mcbexx posted:Has anyone spotted some benchmarks regarding single PC gaming/streaming setups? I am wondering if the 3900x performs well if you dedicate 4 cores to streaming or if there are any inter-chiplet shenanigans that could tank performance regarding the remaining 8 cores.
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Jul 8, 2019 00:06
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