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People including fan made doom levels as part of the core design of doom seems weird. Like, sure maybe you like their design better and new doom could move more in that direction, but when your example of "old doom was balls to the wall action" is a fan made level I don't think that really counts for the point you're making.
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Jul 7, 2019 06:13
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ninjewtsu posted:People including fan made doom levels as part of the core design of doom seems weird. Like, sure maybe you like their design better and new doom could move more in that direction, but when your example of "old doom was balls to the wall action" is a fan made level I don't think that really counts for the point you're making. Yeah it's utterly insane. Just like posting TAS runs of the original levels is, or otherwise showing people with a few decades of play experience.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:18
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ninjewtsu posted:People including fan made doom levels as part of the core design of doom seems weird. Like, sure maybe you like their design better and new doom could move more in that direction, but when your example of "old doom was balls to the wall action" is a fan made level I don't think that really counts for the point you're making. Its not that black and white though. Jesus, I regret bringing up modern WADs.  Even doom 2, if you watch anybody play it you're always moving.I'm not asking the game to change direction. Doom 4 was perfect with berserker packs. How many times do I have to say that before you stop mis-understanding. To be clear (for the ump-teenth time): 1. Doom 4 is a good game 2. If you like glory kills that's cool and valid 3. I wish game control was never taken away, like when you have berserker packs. Please accept this as a difference of preference and stop telling me I'm wrong. Many times this thread has agreed that if you could interrupt the cutscenes by punching someone or hitting a computer and then move on, that'd be a cool addition. People can watch the cutscenes if they want, but especially when replaying the game, it'd be nice to be able to just keep on trucking without having control taken away. We can agree on that, isn't this similar? Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 07:28
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toasterwarrior posted:I mentioned this to someone before but it's important to remember that glory kills are ultimately a way to restore ammo and health, which I touched on earlier. Ideally, when you get better at the game, you should be doing less glory kills (unless you're running a rune setup that rides off proccing them) because you're not getting hit as much and you're making your shots count in terms of accuracy, and maybe even avoiding overkilling. Saying its intentionally slow to make you vulnerable on purpose like healing in dark souls is a different take than anybody's really expressed, but I'm not sure that's actually the case. Its definitely a major factor on the hardest difficulty but otherwise its pretty irrelevant. And like everybody keeps saying, "well you just get the rune that makes them faster" but like.. nobody questions why you should have to do that, and the mere concept that maybe pushing that even further and making them even faster would be even cooler is somehow heresy against the name of doom? gently caress me I should go play serious sam instead?  Just so reductive.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:30
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I've been calling it zaphod42
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Jul 7, 2019 07:41
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maybe zaphod43 would have faster glory kills
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Jul 7, 2019 07:49
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just shoot the dude a couple more times geez
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Jul 7, 2019 07:50
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Zaphod42 posted:Only if you completely ignore context but goons sure do love doing that Playing Doom 1 and 2 vanilla on modern hardware with mouselook and WASD still aren't really "nonstop action" by any stretch of the word, especially if you're not a huge Doom fanatic who has been marinating in the franchise forever. The levels simply aren't designed that way, unless you're so practiced at them that you go through them literally without thinking because you've memorized the layout and enemy placement, which a lot of people *can*, but that's not how they're designed any more than a Mario or Megaman game is designed around speedrunning. Doom monsters are slow and fire slow projectiles in part to give the player plenty of time to breathe and consider how to deal with encounters rather than demand constant breakneck gameplay; it's totally viable for a less skilled player to simply peace out of a fight situation if they're feeling overwhelmed in most Doom levels and the enemy design will allow them to. Slaughter WADs are about as far removed from normal Doom gameplay as Kaizo Mario is from Mario, so I don't really count them as part of the essence of Doom(despite personally enjoying them). I don't really distinguish between waiting for a glory kill to play out and waiting for the reload on an SSG; they both take roughly the same amount of time to execute, and both have risks involved that the player makes a decision to undertake(see Civvie's Doom 2 vid for an example of a 20 year Doom vet making the wrong decision regarding using the SSG and dying to the reload when he teleports into an imp trap that he forgot about). Also you're extremely defensive on the internet about me talking about me making a comparison that I felt was apt, because your statement(Doom is nonstop action) is a very common one that I disagree with, just like how "Sonic is about going fast" is a very common one that I also disagree with. I didn't call you stupid.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:51
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It's zaphod, he is the Old Faithful of meltdowns.
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Jul 7, 2019 08:03
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here i am, going hey maybe this mechanic is very similar in nature to one in another game which was ponderous and risk-taking by design, instead i get blown off because it's not relevant or whatever the gently caress well, i learned my lesson re: engaging with zaphod44 in good faith
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Jul 7, 2019 08:17
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Glory cums in HDoom loving when
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Jul 7, 2019 10:09
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I played Doom as a kid and thought it was creepy as hell. It was a horror game to me
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Jul 7, 2019 10:22
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It really was to me too, I remember being scared shitless of going into the dark watery corridors with the flying skulls as a six year-old on map05
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Jul 7, 2019 10:26
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Switching to software rendering in GZDoom did a lot for me realize how Doom was actually legit gritty and spooky back in the day, and hell, still does now.
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Jul 7, 2019 12:27
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do4m is really about killing whats in front of you while classic fpses are more about pacing yourself and managing your health/ammo with pickups. you can not like glory kills but theyre an integral part of the game
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Jul 7, 2019 12:30
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Zzulu posted:I played Doom as a kid and thought it was creepy as hell. It was a horror game to me This was roughly my experience playing marathon as well. Was that just how that older style of fps rolled?
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Jul 7, 2019 12:31
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It was always kind of creepy to me, then I got to Halls of the Damned and that music...and I was just scared. 10-year-old me didn’t want to deal with that, and then hearing the Cyberdemon roar and thump from across the map a few levels later always got me tensed up too.
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Jul 7, 2019 14:04
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things that are scary when you're 10 may or may not be as scary as they seem
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Jul 7, 2019 14:21
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Doom 1's OST is a good indicator that the tone of the game was actually intended to be a fusion of "gently caress YEAH RIP AND TEAR" and "oh god i'm alone in the dark and i'm going to die", rather than that being a happy accident. Compare E1M1(At Doom's Gate) with E1M8(Sign of Evil), for example. At Doom's Gate is one of the most famously pumped up, rear end kicking, run-around-and-kill-everything themes ever written for a video game, whereas Sign of Evil is slow, plodding, oppressive, and sad in tone; you're all alone and surrounded by ghosts and literal hell demons and you're going to die and there's no hope. Another good example is E1M4(Kitchen Ace), which is another incredibly pumped up asskicking song, which is immediately followed by E1M5(Suspense), which is downright sinister. Kanos fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 16:00
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E1m8’s soundtrack is somehow both painful and depressing, despite only being a MIDI soundtrack. “You will die here, alone and in pain” is the level theme, and it shows in that soundtrack too. https://youtu.be/_jyYtV7ZL90
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Jul 7, 2019 16:06
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toasterwarrior posted:here i am, going hey maybe this mechanic is very similar in nature to one in another game which was ponderous and risk-taking by design, instead i get blown off because it's not relevant or whatever the gently caress In what world did you get blown off but I didn't? I've learned my lesson about engaging this thread in good faith, this is an echo chamber and even if you say "your way is valid, isn't my opinion valid?" you're still told to gently caress off. Apparently discussing game design is a meltdown. Once again, the only thing allowed to post in this thread is "doom good". May as well just close the thread until Eternal comes out.
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Jul 7, 2019 17:01
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Chill dude, just rip n tear till it's done, man. Doom good, shotguns good, demons bad!
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Jul 7, 2019 17:07
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doom good
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Jul 7, 2019 17:08
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christ you're more fragile than a cacodemon versus a chaingun
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Jul 7, 2019 17:18
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Hwurmp posted:doom good qft
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Jul 7, 2019 17:23
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Hwurmp posted:doom good 
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Jul 7, 2019 20:58
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boop moob
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Jul 7, 2019 21:03
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I’ve started referring Doom Eternal as Retard 5.
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Jul 7, 2019 21:30
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They call me Doom Doom
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Jul 7, 2019 21:40
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I wish to note that Enter the Gungeon has a pretty good rendition of a mini BFG, in the form of the synergy between 2 weapons, the mass shotgun and the mine cutter, the mine cutter giving the mass shotgun the player originating tracers on reloading. It's pretty fun.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:07
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New speedrun record for 2016, 28 minutes 56 seconds. Note, they use lots of wall clipping but I guess that's fair game since it's in the game. It's pretty impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJdNdRx9CA Edit: he launches himself like a rocket with a kinda tricky glitch where you crouch and aim at things just right. Obviously glitching thru doors and geometry with glory kills is the other main thing, and launching himself with the gauss cannon. He beats a boss by rocket jumping onto his head and double jumping over a wall lol Donovan Trip fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 23:38
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The real icon of sin is a bunch of people discussing if gory kills good in the year 2203 while playing WOOD: Infinity 3
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Jul 8, 2019 00:08
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Speedrunning has always seemed intensely lame to me. It's a bunch of guys using bugs and scripts to get past the game faster? ok? that's... impressive? (it's not, it's just weird)
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Jul 8, 2019 00:10
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Collapsing Farts posted:Speedrunning has always seemed intensely lame to me. It's a bunch of guys using bugs and scripts to get past the game faster? ok? that's... impressive? (it's not, it's just weird) Salty cuz ur slow huh.
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Jul 8, 2019 00:17
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Collapsing Farts posted:Speedrunning has always seemed intensely lame to me. It's a bunch of guys using bugs and scripts to get past the game faster? ok? that's... impressive? (it's not, it's just weird) Its a competition. Yeah, its arbitrary, but so is "who can put the ball through the hoop the most". As long as you can come up with a set of clear rules, and you have lots of people competing, seems fun to me. Definitely different types of runs appeal to different people, sure. I like watching speedruns evolve for a game over time in a game with lots of sequence breaking like Dark Souls. Also just seeing someone play the game to an extreme level of perfection is pretty impressive. Plus doing it in public like in SGDQ with an audience... there's good energy there. Especially stuff like SGDQ which raises literally millions of dollars for charity, like, it may not be your cup of tea for entertainment but you gotta recognize that's gamers using their free time as a force for good and not evil, right? Some games are more entertaining to watch than others for sure though, and too much glitching does make the whole thing seem kinda inscrutable. The old quake done quick videos were really impressive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpiNDxssUL0
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Jul 8, 2019 00:18
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Hwurmp posted:boop moob poob woop
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Jul 8, 2019 00:45
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Collapsing Farts posted:Speedrunning has always seemed intensely lame to me. It's a bunch of guys using bugs and scripts to get past the game faster? ok? that's... impressive? (it's not, it's just weird) Speedrunning has many sub-categories! The one above uses glitches but there are also 100% runs, glitchless runs (stuff like wall clipping isn't allowed), or any% for just getting through the game as fast as possible with glitches. There's a myriad of ways and each are impressive in their own way. You may find one that calls out to you! Check out this record for 100% in Doom 2016, it's 2 1/2 hours but does have the runner gathering all runes and upgrades during their run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVKGstMFFFc
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Jul 8, 2019 01:00
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Collapsing Farts posted:Speedrunning has always seemed intensely lame to me. It's a bunch of guys using bugs and scripts to get past the game faster? ok? that's... impressive? (it's not, it's just weird) Speedrunning (especially TAS) got a lot easier for me to understand when I started thinking of it as a completely separate activity from actually playing the game. It's an impressive feat that takes a lot of skill, but it has very little to do with the actual game itself the way most people interact with it. Kind of like those cake baking shows on Food network; they're not trying to bake actual good cakes, they're basically making sculptures in a loosely cake-based format.
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Jul 8, 2019 01:18
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Collapsing Farts posted:Speedrunning has always seemed intensely lame to me. It's a bunch of guys using bugs and scripts to get past the game faster? ok? that's... impressive? (it's not, it's just weird) There's like a zillion categories of speedrun for almost any vaguely popular game. There's "beat the game as fast as possible by exploiting every bug and glitch", there's "beat the game as fast as possible with no bugs and glitches", there's "beat the game as fast as possible with as few/many items as possible", and so on and so forth. Pretty much all of them require a pretty intense level of skill, concentration, repetition, and knowledge to get any good at; even bug/glitch exploitation usually requires a lot of knowledge and practice to consistently apply in a way that helps you instead of fucks you over. Classic Doom itself has some form of speedrunning baked into its very DNA. If you've ever played through a Doom 1 or 2 level and tried to hit or beat the par time, you're functionally speedrunning.
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Jul 8, 2019 01:32
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I really like glitchless speed runs where it’s some dude who is really good at the game, and it resembles the game I played. I’m not a fan of heavily glitched runs where some dude is barely playing the same game at all.
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Jul 8, 2019 01:36
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