|
Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Ah yes, the hand and the face, the two easiest parts of the human body to draw. If you're caught drawing one incorrectly they blacklist you from the industry, they're just that easy to do. One of my biggest pet peeves is people who (seem to) have really limited experience of visual art making these goofy, sweeping critiques like, "the anatomy here is Wrong, I know because I read a blog post about Rob Liefeld once".
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 11:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:57 |
|
|
Cup Runneth Over posted:Also no animation artist would ever be caught dead drawing something the wrong si-- Steven Universe also has terrible consistency, what's your point? People get paid for doing a bad job in basically every industry, that doesn't make it right.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 14:48
|
|
|
Halloween Fingers posted:The bizarre meltdowns people have over everything to do with SFP are a little weird to me. It was a good webcomic that became a pretty bad one, big deal. it's hardly on the level of CAD or dominic deegan or whatever. Like DD, it's kind of interesting to look at the half-baked or poorly-executed ideas and talk about why they didn't work, but the art did degrade pretty bad. I'd agree with Rand that it's more than likely because the artist stopped prioritizing the comic though, and I don't blame her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 15:20
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Steven Universe also has terrible consistency, what's your point? People get paid for doing a bad job in basically every industry, that doesn't make it right. It's fine, actually. There's more to art than perfect draftsmanship. A relatively loose style can allow a cartoon to be expressive and fun in a way that perfectly sculpted Marvel house style cannot. Which is fitting for a show that isn't especially concerned with nitty gritty details of worldbuilding, but rather broad emotional stories and jokes like Steven Universe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 15:34
|
|
|
the only thing that matters in art is if it looks dope. that steven universe poo poo don't look dope.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 15:35
|
|
|
Most of Rob Liefeld's style was very purposeful for the time. A massive excess of lines to convey the same sense of overwrought seriousness and drama that comics of the 90s were all about, and at times it feels a little parodic of Bill Sienkiewicz's more elaborate and abstract style. Ridiculously huge muscles were also an industry-wide fad, I guess with the idea that if these heroes are extraordinary, they must be volumetrically greater as well. Warped perspective from trying extra hard to do more and more dynamic poses and positions, which winds up with everyone in a weird squat. Floppy diamond feet because feet aren't muscular and carry no dramatic weight. It's very dated, but people were all over that dumb poo poo at the time. There is no one "correct" style or way of drawing, Kate Beaton had a neat comic about showing her portfolio to somebody as a kid and getting told it was garbage, and you can see how maybe her art style would put off a traditionalist, but the looseness can really convey silliness or a feeling, and when she feels the need, she can tighten up into more photorealistic portraits. At times it even can feel like the style evokes medieval art. But just because there are many different styles that can be successful doesn't mean you can't criticize a style. The feelings that Liefeld's style were meant to evoke are dumb. Ostertag's style feels kinda clumsy and sloppy, and doesn't seem like it's versatile enough to convey what she tries to do. It feels better in the early comic because the sketchiness fits with a plain black and white look, but even then characters tended to devolve into weird abstract shapes at important moments. I don't think she ever shows a proficiency at dealing with inanimate objects, either because she can't, or she is totally uninterested in trying to draw details like props or backgrounds. And Steven Universe's art style is inconsistent but it makes up for it by being adorable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 15:38
|
|
|
Steven Universe is in fact dope. Also, I feel like judging animation purely on stills is going to miss a lot of what makes it work; SU's style is relatively simple for static art but pretty great in motion, especially since the 'off model' stuff is almost universally used for effect. Although I did recently discover The Amazing World of Gumball which on a purely technical visual level is remarkable and goes really hard on elaborate visual gags, so some cartoons focus on that kind of thing. I still prefer SU but it's because of the writing more than the animation. Ostertag's art in SFP is mostly notable because the direction her style evolved was wildly out of sync with the comic's intended tone, and made some supposedly intense emotional beats fail to land. Also, she would defend her kinda disinterested art choices on twitter, like claiming that elaborate backgrounds distracted from the story and that's why some limp dialogue (not her department) occurred in a pastel gradient void (definitely her department). It's mostly a question of a deep stylistic mismatch, but also the creators refused to accept any degree of criticism up to and including some really weird stuff. Like deleting critical comments for using the phrase 'hamhanded' because they thought it was bodyshaming, which isn't even the etymology of the term.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
Lol imagine caring this much about whether the characters are on-model in Stephen Universe, and as if that degrades the quality and appeal of the show in the slightest Why are people even talking about this? Or SFP, which has been discussed to death in its own thread? Yeah, it was bad, but the artist is decent enough, she just clearly stopped caring. Imagine if some of the people in This thread saw OK KO, they'd have a heart attack...! Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:28
|
|
|
c a l a r t s
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:30
|
|
|
I mean, I think off-model stuff is fine but it's worth thinking about where and why visual consistency is valuable, you know?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:48
|
|
|
I thank god three times a day for modern animation style trends because it means we won't have to revisit the eye-searing horror of the Klasky Csupo aesthestic
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:55
|
|
|
I'm the guy who thinks it's a sex crime to discuss webcomics art or webcomics makers in the webcomics thread. this is a medium of perverts and rapists and none of you are without sin.Nuns with Guns posted:I thank god three times a day for modern animation style trends because it means we won't have to revisit the eye-searing horror of the Klasky Csupo aesthestic in retrospect Klaskycsupo is a pretty obvious archdemon name A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:27
|
|
|
Part of the style bible of Steven Universe is that the characters have no consistent heights, just a vague relativistic height. The show mostly sticks to this, although sometimes like, Lapis is taller than Pearl and sometimes vice versa. But like, the look of the show is designed around "on model" being a pretty flexible idea, especially with regards to scale, so it all works. I actually remember when Adventure Time was first debuting, people were really a lot more rigid about how Good Cartoons Are On Model, and some animation nerds were really snobby about how Finn's body and head shape changed dramatically depending on the nature of the scene or who was boarding that episode. Even in the thread here, some people were really turned off by the first episode boarded by Jesse Moynihan, who has a really idiosyncratic, alt comix-y style and transferred that directly onto Jake. That flexibility, of course, turned out to be a huge part of the show's visual appeal and potential to cover a wide range of moods and themes, and those people were missing that sometimes deviation from traditional methods is artistically generative and rewarding!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:43
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:Wait, you can get a job in Disney animation by drawing like this? The compositions are strong, the colors are pleasant if a bit muddled, the character designs are generally appealing... Not really seeing an issue here? Yeah you can nitpick some things but overall her work seems decent. Plus not every job in animation requires perfect attention to detail (storyboarding for example). 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
Complaining about a few odd art decisions when Dominic Deegan has a sequel and it looks exactly the same after 10 years.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:46
|
|
|
SFP has plenty of things to actually hate for legitimate reasons without having to tilt at windmills about the art.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 19:20
|
|
|
I have no dog in the fight regarding SFP but I find it odd that people focus on the tiny cup as something that's off. It's a demitasse presumably and those things are tiny if you're getting a double shot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 21:03
|
|
|
Vanderdeath posted:I have no dog in the fight regarding SFP but I find it odd that people focus on the tiny cup as something that's off. It's a demitasse presumably and those things are tiny if you're getting a double shot. it more than halves in size between those two panels
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 21:13
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:I thank god three times a day for modern animation style trends because it means we won't have to revisit the eye-searing horror of the Klasky Csupo aesthestic I regret to inform you that there is no god and you will have to sooner than you think
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 21:23
|
|
|
Any time Ostertag had to draw someone doing anything with their hands things went to hell very quickly but presumably that's not what Disney's got her doing and they're keeping her too busy to churn out more SFP so god bless the lot of 'emTwoPair posted:I regret to inform you that there is no god and you will have to sooner than you think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P4Xcl2njCU
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 21:38
|
|
|
Your comic art can get pretty shaky when it's 3 am, you've had a hard day at work and you are trying to make a schedule. Some minor anatomy dodginess that to see, you have to zoom in enough that you can see the pixels, is hardly an art sin. I've done far worse. Ostertag's art is pretty good and I own one of her books. If your argument was that the black and white panel you posted is better ... that is an interesting opinion. Fangz fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 22:11
|
|
|
Vanderdeath posted:I have no dog in the fight regarding SFP but I find it odd that people focus on the tiny cup as something that's off. It's a demitasse presumably and those things are tiny if you're getting a double shot. I know espresso cups are tiny but it starts small and gets smaller until it's like a milliliter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 22:18
|
|
|
Let's talk about something else. I think it's safe to say we now understand exactly why Not Drunk Enough is a trans comic, which confused me when Tess Stone first described it that way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 23:13
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Let's talk about something else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 01:04
|
|
|
i love to hate sfp but am baffled that people choose ostertag as the focus of their rage when the comic was always about abysmal writing almost-saved by pleasant artwork that it didn't deserve. why does she somehow get the blame for a terrible comic where the terribleness was 99% someone else's fault? oh wait that's right, she's a woman
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
Huh. Tess Stone came back? I hope stuff works out better for him.
YggiDee fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jul 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
YggiDee posted:Huh. Tessa Stone came back? I hope stuff works out better for her. Tess is trans, and from what I can tell he's doing and feeling a lot better now. Also, Not Drunk Enough updates really slowly, but it's a solid read.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 01:46
|
|
|
Welp, shows how much attention I've been paying. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 01:52
|
|
|
I think he only came out publicly like a couple months ago, but when he did I was like "oh, that makes so much sense!"
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 01:57
|
|
|
Rotten Red Rod posted:Lol imagine caring this much about whether the characters are on-model in Stephen Universe, and as if that degrades the quality and appeal of the show in the slightest I don't think you could have missed the point harder
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 02:18
|
|
|
SardonicTyrant posted:I don't keep up. What happened? Our hero, because being chased by monsters wasn't bad enough, has now been turned into a monster-man with a giant tooth-cranium and is afraid to look at himself in the mirror.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 02:34
|
|
|
nankeen posted:i love to hate sfp but am baffled that people choose ostertag as the focus of their rage when the comic was always about abysmal writing almost-saved by pleasant artwork that it didn't deserve. why does she somehow get the blame for a terrible comic where the terribleness was 99% someone else's fault? ostertag's only notable sin is when she reacted rather....poorly when people told her that allison bending the lolbertarian over the table and calling him sweetheart was super loving rapey.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 04:10
|
|
|
nankeen posted:i love to hate sfp but am baffled that people choose ostertag as the focus of their rage when the comic was always about abysmal writing almost-saved by pleasant artwork that it didn't deserve. why does she somehow get the blame for a terrible comic where the terribleness was 99% someone else's fault?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 04:17
|
|
|
I feel like someone wished on a monkey's paw for no QC talk and this whole stupid derail is the cruel twist.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
I'll take this moment to voice my longing for Kill Six Billion Demons updates while waiting excitedly for the awesome mecha tabletop rpg Abbadon is finishing. It's left me in a strange emotional bind. (I'm fine waiting for the updates, I guess)
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 04:58
|
|
|
nankeen posted:i love to hate sfp but am baffled that people choose ostertag as the focus of their rage when the comic was always about abysmal writing almost-saved by pleasant artwork that it didn't deserve. why does she somehow get the blame for a terrible comic where the terribleness was 99% someone else's fault? she gets the blame because no one remembers who the other person even is they were such a public non-entity, to the point where I remember people in the thread being surprised there was a second person even involved. like some random "nice guy" being the one writing absolutely explains a poo poo-ton about what went wrong there, so I kinda assume he intentionally let her be the public face to try and avoid that criticism. and arguably it wasn't "almost-saved by pleasant artwork" given that she pretty clearly (and correctly) thought it was unsaveable and was putting in absolute minimum effort towards the end (see: the whole thing where she drew and inked a rape metaphor apparently without ever consciously processing that was what was happening?)
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 05:08
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:I'll take this moment to voice my longing for Kill Six Billion Demons updates while waiting excitedly for the awesome mecha tabletop rpg Abbadon is finishing. It's left me in a strange emotional bind. This break isn't for Lancer stuff, the dude's literally on his honeymoon. But I can sympathize, never have I been so excited for a tournament arc 
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 05:11
|
|
|
Don't make me get out the emergency webcomics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Don't make me get out the emergency webcomics. no do it, i'm jonesing bad
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 05:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:57 |
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Don't make me get out the emergency webcomics. force them to read flaky pastry e: actually on further review i'll repost one of the actually good webcomics from the webcomic thread    
A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jul 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2019 05:43
|
|