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Mike N Eich posted:I'm not sure you can infer the ending more than the broadest strokes. Everything from Season 5 on was so drastically different. We know for sure Stannis wont sacrifice Shireen at Winterfell, so what happens with that storyline? Does he die there? Does he win and defeat the Boltons? Does that mean there is no Battle of the Bastards in the books? Who the gently caress knows? Stannis is obviously the elephant in the room, in that he's a beloved character mistreated by the show and I really want him to win. He's great, but he's not an endgame player - dude has "fated to die in Act 2" written all over him, he's not an endgame character, love him or not. I really want him to win his battle and I'm so on his side but grrm world doesn't work that way.
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Jun 28, 2019 20:09
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Oh of course what we get will be extremely different - you're talking about the events of the show, not just where it ended. I think the broad strokes of the ending are unchanged, and I appreciate that, because I can at least fill in those blanks myself. I think, at the end of the unbooks, bran is king, dany is killed by now-exiled jon, arya leaves for another land. the golden company fights to defend kings landing, via cersei or aegon or both of them married or whatever the hell. They probably do fight the zombies at winterfell and arya probably kills their leader. Yeah totally, there's no way Stannis can "win" and they've been pretty heavyhanded that he's not gonna acquiesce to any other ruler "He'll break before he bends." I could see him being roasted by a Dany dragon or something at the end. There may be a very tiny chance that he'd be a kind of guy to take the black and be the next Lord Commander or something, but I doubt that happens. I *do* however think he'll be given much better due than the show did, he's gonna go out in a much more sympathetic and meaningful manner.
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Jun 28, 2019 20:19
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Cersei sending Bronn to kill Jaime and Tyrion. What did that even add to the plot besides creating a hairline fracture in the credibility of the Jaime/Cersei reunion? Did they just figure that Bronn was worth x amounts of views if he was in the final season?
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Jun 28, 2019 20:48
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Mike N Eich posted:Yeah totally, there's no way Stannis can "win" and they've been pretty heavyhanded that he's not gonna acquiesce to any other ruler "He'll break before he bends." I always figured Stannis would end up sacrificing himself to Rhllor as part of the last ditch efforts against the Others.
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Jun 28, 2019 21:12
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Katt posted:Cersei sending Bronn to kill Jaime and Tyrion. What did that even add to the plot besides creating a hairline fracture in the credibility of the Jaime/Cersei reunion? They're just bad writers, he tested well, and they didn't give a gently caress. There's no conspiracy or anything interesting to what they did.
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Jun 28, 2019 21:20
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I've been saying to friends that the last season felt like a Wikipedia plot summary of a story, and not the story itself.
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Jun 28, 2019 22:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Oh of course what we get will be extremely different - you're talking about the events of the show, not just where it ended. I think the broad strokes of the ending are unchanged, and I appreciate that, because I can at least fill in those blanks myself. I think, at the end of the unbooks, bran is king, dany is killed by now-exiled jon, arya leaves for another land. the golden company fights to defend kings landing, via cersei or aegon or both of them married or whatever the hell. They probably do fight the zombies at winterfell and arya probably kills their leader. arya killing night's king is the one major plot point from the last 2 seasons that i don't think comes from gurm's bullet points in any way. for reasons beyond there not being a night king or any other identifiable leader among the Others in the books (yet) benioff and weiss have certainly been talking about it like it was their own cool idea i think in the Quantum Uncertainty Books, arya will spend a lot more time in the riverlands, and probably will have the denouement of her storyline (something with stoneheart??) there. Which would be fitting, imho, since that's where most of her defining events took place. In that case, she might not even make it back to the winterfell until after the crisis with the Others has been resolved. i think if the Others do get some singular leader or figurehead in the books, it'll be someone with actual personality, probably of human origins (maybe euron, or even a stannis driven to derangement by suffering several additional betrayals) PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 28, 2019 23:34
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All signs point to Queen Selyse burning Shireen, maybe in despair after hearing the fake news that Stannis died at Winterfell, and with Melisandre having no other source of royal blood left. As for Stannis, I always figured he would be shown to be the false Azor Ahai when the Others finally make their move, realizing it wasn't him, showing a bitter smile and just fighting on untl death because it's still his duty as a breathing person. Arya is a big question mark. She's been removed from anything of import for so long, in her assassin guild too expensive for anyone to ever hire, that even GRRM has to contrive reasons for her to be even tangential to the goings-on. See, here she's crossing paths with Sanwell and Dareon in Braavos, and it doesn't matter. See, now she's met one of the Mountain's Men while working as a mummer (in one of the worst-written, most fanfic-grade chapters I've seen from an actual author ever) and she also killed him! The story keeps hinting that she has a deeper bond with her family and life that keeps her from becoming 'no one', so heading home and then going "Ehh poo poo, it's not working, better sail to the West indies and spread smallpox I guess" would be even more laughable. I also see no real way for the unbooks to have Cersei rule with even a shred of efficacy. The whole "Welp, I firebombed the vatican with the Pope and two of the realm's most beloved figures inside it and everyone is cool with it" thing was already a stretch in the series, but in the books it'd likely make even the red keep cooks try to aim for the title of Queenslayer.
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Jun 29, 2019 01:24
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Well I don't think the sept will/would be so conclusive, or happen so early. It's bizarre to imagine the books dropping king's landing politics as a subplot - it was in all 5 books to some degree and I think the show authors didn't know where to go with it. I think she'll burn the sept but it won't conveniently kill every character in that plotline to leave room for more ramsey torture porn. Certainly I imagined her literally pulling an Aerys would be a turning point for Jaime, but they didn't do that in a show. (It's still compatible with him going back to her, but to not affect him at all, the man who destroyed his name to prevent that sort of thing.)
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Jun 29, 2019 01:32
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I'd bet the bit with Brienne salvaging a dead Jaime's name came from GRRM as well.
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Jun 29, 2019 02:27
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I like the speculation that the sept burning and Tommen dive are the same, but are followed by a Faegon attack and no one is willing to fight for her. It would also be poetic if she nearly died somehow and Qyburn “saved” her.
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Jun 29, 2019 07:07
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Well I don't think the sept will/would be so conclusive, or happen so early. It's bizarre to imagine the books dropping king's landing politics as a subplot - it was in all 5 books to some degree and I think the show authors didn't know where to go with it. I think she'll burn the sept but it won't conveniently kill every character in that plotline to leave room for more ramsey torture porn. Certainly I imagined her literally pulling an Aerys would be a turning point for Jaime, but they didn't do that in a show. (It's still compatible with him going back to her, but to not affect him at all, the man who destroyed his name to prevent that sort of thing.) I can't say it's the number one dumbest line because bad pussy is a thing but Jaime saying that he didn't care about any of the people in King's Landing was easily the second most idiotic line in the entire show.
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Jun 29, 2019 17:59
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PupsOfWar posted:arya killing night's king is the one major plot point from the last 2 seasons that i don't think comes from gurm's bullet points in any way. for reasons beyond there not being a night king or any other identifiable leader among the Others in the books (yet) In the books here is a mention of some great other but yeah I don’t see its defeat being the same cascading destruction of ice vampires like the show had. Hopefully when Sanderson or someone else finish the books, Jon heading north with the wildlings is more a ‘gonna go keep/make peace with the remain others’ kind of ending since the show just wanted an easy out.
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Jun 30, 2019 17:01
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mastajake posted:I like the speculation that the sept burning and Tommen dive are the same, but are followed by a Faegon attack and no one is willing to fight for her. It would also be poetic if she nearly died somehow and Qyburn “saved” her. Lady Redheart versus Lady Stoneheart bowl.
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Jun 30, 2019 23:24
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Ginette Reno posted:I can't say it's the number one dumbest line because bad pussy is a thing but Jaime saying that he didn't care about any of the people in King's Landing was easily the second most idiotic line in the entire show. I feel like it’s really telling that while the media started really paying attention to the audience backlash against season 8 starting with Danny’s heel turn in episode 5, the real backlash started with episode 4, which is actually a much worse rated episode, and I think most of that can be laid at the feet of Jaime’s reversal. It’s such a complete and total gently caress you to the audience. As a story beat, it’s psychotic. Yes, people make bad decisions in real life. Yes, self-destructive people usually do fall back into self destructive behavior. You can make all the arguments on paper you want for why Jaime could end up slinking back Cersei. It doesn’t wash, and the reason it doesn’t wash is that we’ve been following this one-handed rear end in a top hat’s journey towards redemption for more than two decades now, and you can’t end a journey like that on a pissant whimper.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:37
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I feel like it’s really telling that while the media started really paying attention to the audience backlash against season 8 starting with Danny’s heel turn in episode 5, the real backlash started with episode 4, which is actually a much worse rated episode, and I think most of that can be laid at the feet of Jaime’s reversal. It’s such a complete and total gently caress you to the audience. As a story beat, it’s psychotic. So apparently your expectations... were subverted.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:27
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I fully expect Cersei to be the one to win at the end of the books because nobody good in the books has a happy ending. This is how it needs to end.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:53
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I finished reading Dunk and Egg and I don't care if the fat gently caress ever finishes asoiaf. Just write more Dunk and Egg. I feel like 150~ pages short stories are poo poo grrm can actually get done.
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Jul 3, 2019 15:31
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Now imagine if he just wrote 15 of those but with the mainline book characters he would be done already.
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Jul 3, 2019 20:08
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KidDynamite posted:I finished reading Dunk and Egg and I don't care if the fat gently caress ever finishes asoiaf. Just write more Dunk and Egg. I feel like 150~ pages short stories are poo poo grrm can actually get done. He can only work on things if there are zero expectations, and at the same time he is somehow thumbing his nose at authority. I know people like this. His muse is a temperamental 13 year old girl, wants you to know you are NOT her real mother.
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Jul 3, 2019 20:36
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kcroy posted:He can only work on things if there are zero expectations, and at the same time he is somehow thumbing his nose at authority. I know people like this. His muse is a temperamental maiden of three and ten with auburn hair, wants you to know you are NOT her real mother. 
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Jul 3, 2019 23:05
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KidDynamite posted:I feel like 150~ pages short stories are poo poo grrm can actually get done. The fact that he hasn't finished another D&E story is evidence to the contrary 
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Jul 3, 2019 23:46
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yeah i didn't realize the last one came out in 2010. I thought it was all in 2015 with the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms collection. I'm reading Fire and Blood and it's pretty mediocre. Is there anything particularly cool in here or should I move on from the Westeros kick I've been on?
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Jul 4, 2019 00:20
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KidDynamite posted:yeah i didn't realize the last one came out in 2010. I thought it was all in 2015 with the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms collection. I'm reading Fire and Blood and it's pretty mediocre. Is there anything particularly cool in here or should I move on from the Westeros kick I've been on? w/r/t fire and blood there's some cool unsettling horror stings in the background (of the type gurm normally does well), and some of the historical figures are sketched out well given the amount of space they get, but overall it's...not something you should expect to read like a novel i do think gurm likes to mirror or experiment with themes from the main series in these side books, so if you're someone that's super deep into theorycrafting it's maybe worth it overall, optional ephemera for the gurm completionist only Kylaer posted:The fact that he hasn't finished another D&E story is evidence to the contrary what if the true dark secret of gurm is not that he is a lazy shithead and probable pervert but, rather, that he is a 1950s sci-fi robot with sparks shooting out of his ears as he thinks "can't finish dunk and egg because it spoils ASOIAF...can't finish fire and blood because it spoils dunk and egg...can't finish ASOIAF because it spoils my unreleased novel from the early 1980s...error error error" in this scenario, "edit some more wild cards" is equivalent of booting in safe mode
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Jul 4, 2019 03:34
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PupsOfWar posted:gurm completionist
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Jul 4, 2019 10:09
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He can't finish a book but he can finish a pizza
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Jul 4, 2019 17:49
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Josuke Higashikata posted:He can't finish a book but he can finish a pizza 
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Jul 5, 2019 03:44
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Evil Fluffy posted:He can only work on things if there are zero expectations, and at the same time he is somehow thumbing his nose at authority. I know people like this. His muse is a temperamental maiden of three and ten with auburn hair, wants you to know you are NOT her real mother. excellent
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Jul 6, 2019 07:51
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I'm telling you, guys, his oldass Wordstar machine finally kicked it.
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Jul 6, 2019 11:43
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KidDynamite posted:yeah i didn't realize the last one came out in 2010. I thought it was all in 2015 with the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms collection. I'm reading Fire and Blood and it's pretty mediocre. Is there anything particularly cool in here or should I move on from the Westeros kick I've been on? Septon Barth owns
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Jul 6, 2019 12:15
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esperterra posted:I'm telling you, guys, his oldass Wordstar machine finally kicked it. IIRC when the HBO money started kicking in he hired someone to set up a brand new modern system with Wordstar. But maybe his newass Wordstar machine has kicked it.
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Jul 6, 2019 13:12
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maybe he was dictating everything to ty franck all along and that's why there hasn't been a new ASOIAF or a new Dunk & Egg since leviathan wakes came out gurm hasn't bothered lining up a replacement typist etc
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Jul 6, 2019 13:58
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TIL that George visited the Paris catacombs in 2015. He wanted to give an interview there and share some of his historical knowledge with fans and journalists. Most of the catacombs are closed to the public and it's illegal to wander there so a reputed guide led the group down one of the illegal passageways. Only problem is that GRRM could not use the planned entrance because he was too fat to fit through. They ended up negotiating with the police to open a staircase that's normally barred from public access to let him in. He had to carry a red cushion with him all the way through. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20vxk3
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Jul 7, 2019 16:45
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Lord Too-Fat-To-Cross-A-Door
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Jul 8, 2019 02:24
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Calaveron posted:Lord Too-Fat-To-Cross-A-Door To be fair to The Mountain, the illegal entrances often involve more ladders than doors so i'm guessing his guide simply didn't account for GRRM's girth.
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Jul 8, 2019 10:07
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:To be fair to The Mountain, the illegal entrances often involve more ladders than doors so i'm guessing his guide simply didn't account for GRRM's girth. His girrmth, if you will.
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Jul 8, 2019 16:33
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:TIL that George visited the Paris catacombs in 2015. He wanted to give an interview there and share some of his historical knowledge with fans and journalists. Most of the catacombs are closed to the public and it's illegal to wander there so a reputed guide led the group down one of the illegal passageways. Only problem is that GRRM could not use the planned entrance because he was too fat to fit through. They ended up negotiating with the police to open a staircase that's normally barred from public access to let him in. He had to carry a red cushion with him all the way through. boycotting TWOW unless there's a scene where wyman manderly can't fit through the winterfell crypts
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Jul 8, 2019 16:37
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I had forgotten how obnoxious the chapter titles were in adwd
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Jul 8, 2019 22:49
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Calaveron posted:I had forgotten how obnoxious the chapter titles were in adwd No way, Theon slowing working his way from 'Reek' to 'Theon' in chapter titles was some of the best work GRRM has done
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Jul 9, 2019 00:02
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A Typical Goon posted:No way, Theon slowing working his way from 'Reek' to 'Theon' in chapter titles was some of the best work GRRM has done But then Asha's and Damphair were like, ugh shut up and get on with it
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Jul 9, 2019 00:03
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