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tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
I miss lifedrain patch so much, might need to start another replay.

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BigHandsVince
Mar 30, 2007
Mamma Mia, my hands are huge!

Djeser posted:

On the other hand, there's plenty of NPC invasions so have fun with those!

Dark Souls is basically an adventure game anyway so you're not wrong there. Also, some folks (like me) like to invade and then deliberately not fight the player, or even do things like 1) invade 2) drop a Seed of a Tree of Giants 3) lie down while the other player picks it up and uses it and 4) non consensual co-op

All these are cool and make the game more interesting, I just don't understand the invading then ganking someone who can't/won't fight back.

I fought through No Man's Wharf last night, it was the coolest area so far, a lot of interesting parts to it. Is there any way to repair a weapon during a level, without bonfiring and bringing everyone back? There's a lot of enemies in the wharf and my sword is at risk by the time I get to the boss.

BigHandsVince fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 29, 2019

One Hundred Monkeys
Aug 7, 2010

BigHandsVince posted:

All these are cool and make the game more interesting, I just don't understand the invading then ganking someone who can't/won't fight back.

I fought through No Man's Wharf last night, it was the coolest area so far, a lot of interesting parts to it. Is there any way to repair a weapon during a level, without bonfiring and bringing everyone back? There's a lot of enemies in the wharf and my sword is at risk by the time I get to the boss.

There's a consumable item that restores weapon durability, but it's probably not something you want to be using every time you try a boss. Consider picking up a backup weapon so you have something to switch between, or just looking into a weapon with high base durability. For the wharf in particular, you can unlock a level shortcut that lets you go almost straight from the bonfire to the boss arena. Later on you can find a set of rings that reduce the speed of weapon degradation.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
There's a billion cool and interesting weapons in DS2 and you get enough material to upgrade, like, 10 of them before you have to farm. Experiment!

BigHandsVince
Mar 30, 2007
Mamma Mia, my hands are huge!

Ok, so I shouldn't worry about upgrading a few different things to try out? I've been hoarding the titanite because I wasn't sure of the rarity, so that's helpful if it's quite abundant.

I've unlocked the metal door behind the merchant, doesn't seem hugely quicker though.

One Hundred Monkeys
Aug 7, 2010

BigHandsVince posted:

Ok, so I shouldn't worry about upgrading a few different things to try out? I've been hoarding the titanite because I wasn't sure of the rarity, so that's helpful if it's quite abundant.

I've unlocked the metal door behind the merchant, doesn't seem hugely quicker though.

There's a better shortcut. You know the bit at the end, with the rickety pier before the ghost ship? There's a big plank you can kick down that will act as a bridge to the very beginning of the level.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


BigHandsVince posted:

All these are cool and make the game more interesting, I just don't understand the invading then ganking someone who can't/won't fight back.

People invade for any number of reasons. Some invade just to be dicks and kill you. Some want to engage in honourable combat. Others want to just sort of mess around and have fun. It's also entirely possible that you got invaded by a player that's as new to the game as you and who didn't know what the gently caress they were doing, so they just attacked you because you are the target and they are supposed to kill you and hey if you don't have any weapons on that just makes it easier.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Look Sir Droids posted:

It’s unlikely you’ll get invaded after Heides and Forest, with one possible exception (a bridge over lava), until very late game and maybe the DLC.

The DLC areas aren't super active for invaders, not as much as Drangleic Castle at least. The one exception would be in the Grand Cathedral in Eleum Loyce because people summon for that fight a lot.

BigHandsVince posted:

All these are cool and make the game more interesting, I just don't understand the invading then ganking someone who can't/won't fight back.

Some people invade to kill you because they get satisfaction out of knowing they made you retrace a smidgen of your steps, or pick on newbies because they suck and couldn't hack it in the PVP arenas. Taking off your weapons might also have been interpreted by the invader as a "just kill me quickly" indicator. It's hard to say for sure though.

You can take invaders as an excuse to practice fighting on slightly smarter enemies, or jump off a nearby ledge if you don't feel like dealing with them. You could also find a quiet spot and use the Chameleon spell to see how long it takes for the invader to figure out where you are. If you're blending in well, a lot of them will get annoyed after a few minutes and leave on their own.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

BigHandsVince posted:

I fought through No Man's Wharf last night, it was the coolest area so far, a lot of interesting parts to it. Is there any way to repair a weapon during a level, without bonfiring and bringing everyone back? There's a lot of enemies in the wharf and my sword is at risk by the time I get to the boss.

This used to be a great time to use the Small White Soapstone. You got to help guide people through the area and get your humanity restored plus souls plus a full repair job. I'd imagine multiplayer these days would not be a thing.

Samopsa
Nov 9, 2009

Krijgt geen speciaal kerstdiner!
Multiplayer is mostly dead yeah, only the starting areas and pvp hotspots have some activity.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
You can still get a decent bit of action each run if you make a habit of putting your sign down at every bonfire you go to

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

If you want PVP, I still can't think of a better place than the Lava Bridge tbh. To this day, it's still stupid easy to find people to fight.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Whalley posted:

If you want PVP, I still can't think of a better place than the Lava Bridge tbh. To this day, it's still stupid easy to find people to fight.

I saw mostly dragon signs there last time through. Not sure if I got invaded except by choice there.

Soul Reaver
Mar 8, 2009

in retrospect the old redtext was a little over the top, I think I was in a bad mood that day. it appears you've learned your lesson about slagging our gods and masters at beamdog but I'm still going to leave this av up because i think its funny

god bless

Nuns with Guns posted:

The DLC areas aren't super active for invaders, not as much as Drangleic Castle at least. The one exception would be in the Grand Cathedral in Eleum Loyce because people summon for that fight a lot.


Some people invade to kill you because they get satisfaction out of knowing they made you retrace a smidgen of your steps, or pick on newbies because they suck and couldn't hack it in the PVP arenas. Taking off your weapons might also have been interpreted by the invader as a "just kill me quickly" indicator. It's hard to say for sure though.

You can take invaders as an excuse to practice fighting on slightly smarter enemies, or jump off a nearby ledge if you don't feel like dealing with them. You could also find a quiet spot and use the Chameleon spell to see how long it takes for the invader to figure out where you are. If you're blending in well, a lot of them will get annoyed after a few minutes and leave on their own.

Also:
If you manage to go through a boss fog gate, the invader will be banished.

If that's not an option, and you're pretty sure you're going to get murdered in PvP, one thing you can do is to run somewhere close to the last bonfire you used. While you can't use it, if you do die in the fight, your dropped souls will be nearby after you respawn.
With very little to lose on your part, now's a good time to put up a fight and get some PvP practice in, even if you don't win.

Lastly, if you decide to fight seriously, don't let the invader exploit the environment against you. Don't engage them with hostile monsters nearby (unless you plan to use a Seed of the Tree of Giants), otherwise you're just making it harder for yourself, and try to fight in spaces that suit your loadout (eg, don't use a big swingy weapon in a narrow corridor against someone with a spear)

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Soul Reaver posted:

Lastly, if you decide to fight seriously, don't let the invader exploit the environment against you. Don't engage them with hostile monsters nearby (unless you plan to use a Seed of the Tree of Giants), otherwise you're just making it harder for yourself, and try to fight in spaces that suit your loadout (eg, don't use a big swingy weapon in a narrow corridor against someone with a spear)

Related to this: the Seed of a Tree of Giants is amazing, and it's always delightful to punish an invader who refuses to stop squatting in the nearest cluster of enemies.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Finally finished the game. Fume Knight was probably the toughest boss for me. Now it's on to Dark Souls 3!

Harriet Carker
Jun 2, 2009

Gort posted:

Finally finished the game. Fume Knight was probably the toughest boss for me. Now it's on to Dark Souls 3!

Congrats! As someone who recently did the same, DS3 takes some adjustment but it’s totally worth sticking through. It’s really great!

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Nuns with Guns posted:

Related to this: the Seed of a Tree of Giants is amazing, and it's always delightful to punish an invader who refuses to stop squatting in the nearest cluster of enemies.

Also I discovered by accident that if you grab the seed by Armorer Denis and then die, there's a small chance it'll respawn. So it's a little boring, but if you really wanted to you could continually respawn at the bonfire by the tree, sprint to the tree and grab the seed (if it's there) and then run off the cliff, wash rinse repeat. I got about 10 seeds like this before I finally decided to kill Denis.

OutofSight
May 4, 2017

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

Also I discovered by accident that if you grab the seed by Armorer Denis and then die, there's a small chance it'll respawn. So it's a little boring, but if you really wanted to you could continually respawn at the bonfire by the tree, sprint to the tree and grab the seed (if it's there) and then run off the cliff, wash rinse repeat. I got about 10 seeds like this before I finally decided to kill Denis.

darksouls2.wikidot posted:

Seed of Giants

Has roughly a 25% chance of spawning every time the player is invaded by a Red Phantom: both real players and NPCs.

I prefer triggering Aslatiel of Mirrah's invasion in Aldia's Keep. Dude just leaves when you reach the security door to the corrdor with the experiments. Rest at the bonfire and enter again for his next try. Over and over again....

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
Every time I boot the game up again I like to start a playthrough focused on a new and exotic weapon type. Last playthrough was crossbows, the one before that was powerstanced axes (I never messed with powerstancing much before that) and the one before that was focused on using items as a main damage source. Now I'm focusing on lances and I can't believe I slept on them for this long. The moveset is very limited, but with the stamina cost and huge windup/cooldown animations it still winds up being pretty tactical gameplay.

I'm also committing to a low agility fatroll with a greatshield, so I don't exactly have a panic button if I whiff an attack. It's very tense stuff and I find myself playing much more cautiously, but it's still a lot less safe than your typical sword+board setup since every heavy attack or light combo will leave me with next to no stamina and open to attacks during the cooldown animation if I can't stagger the enemy. The shield poke is my only truly safe move and I've been using it pretty liberally even though I almost never used it with spears. I'm looking forward to trying out the chariot lance quite a bit.

E-Tank
Aug 4, 2011
So, having played through DS3. . .I came back to DS2 and is it just me or is it easier?

like I breezed through the Pursuer Knight during his first appearance. Enemies that drove me loving insane the first time I played, I've killed casually. Things take more damage and I seem more tanky. Either I've gotten better, or things have gotten nerfed. Or maybe I'm just no longer playing the game holding a shield up 90% of the time?

I missed power stancing in DS3, I somewhat understand why they changed dual weapons the way they did, but it still feels better when you get into that proper stance. That said FP is so much better than spell uses per slot. Holy poo poo.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

tweet my meat posted:

Every time I boot the game up again I like to start a playthrough focused on a new and exotic weapon type. Last playthrough was crossbows, the one before that was powerstanced axes (I never messed with powerstancing much before that) and the one before that was focused on using items as a main damage source. Now I'm focusing on lances and I can't believe I slept on them for this long. The moveset is very limited, but with the stamina cost and huge windup/cooldown animations it still winds up being pretty tactical gameplay.

I'm also committing to a low agility fatroll with a greatshield, so I don't exactly have a panic button if I whiff an attack. It's very tense stuff and I find myself playing much more cautiously, but it's still a lot less safe than your typical sword+board setup since every heavy attack or light combo will leave me with next to no stamina and open to attacks during the cooldown animation if I can't stagger the enemy. The shield poke is my only truly safe move and I've been using it pretty liberally even though I almost never used it with spears. I'm looking forward to trying out the chariot lance quite a bit.

powerstance lances :unsmigghh:

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Flippity floo! I charge at you!

https://i.imgur.com/eQ2wyym.mp4

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Digirat posted:

Flippity floo! I charge at you!

https://i.imgur.com/eQ2wyym.mp4

That's a very jojo move right there

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

E-Tank posted:

So, having played through DS3. . .I came back to DS2 and is it just me or is it easier?

like I breezed through the Pursuer Knight during his first appearance. Enemies that drove me loving insane the first time I played, I've killed casually. Things take more damage and I seem more tanky. Either I've gotten better, or things have gotten nerfed. Or maybe I'm just no longer playing the game holding a shield up 90% of the time?

I missed power stancing in DS3, I somewhat understand why they changed dual weapons the way they did, but it still feels better when you get into that proper stance. That said FP is so much better than spell uses per slot. Holy poo poo.
DS2's a relatively easy game compared to the rest of the Souls franchise if you're not using a shield. That's why only one of the starting classes actually has a shield - to teach you to not rely on one, and it's why you need to wait a while into the game before getting a 100% block shield.

Rubellavator
Aug 16, 2007

Anti shield talk is the talk of scrubs

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

Rubellavator posted:

Anti shield talk is the talk of scrubs
Shields are fine, but not if they engender passivity

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
hahaha


Bloodborne said that

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Shields are good but around the DLCs a lot of things cost way too much stamina to block with less than a greatshield and some attacks just magically pretend you aren’t blocking and hit you even if you have a shield up with no indication that they’ll do this (hello shulva dragon boss). so you really want to be comfortable playing without one, because sometimes you’ll have to. Pay the agility tax up to 99 at least.

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

Digirat posted:

Pay the agility tax up to 99 at least.
I'm still torn on if I like this or not. Like, in DS2 you get levels a lot faster - but you've gotta spend levels to get AGI up to 99 or 110, depending on your preference. It's both good and bad.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Whalley posted:

I'm still torn on if I like this or not. Like, in DS2 you get levels a lot faster - but you've gotta spend levels to get AGI up to 99 or 110, depending on your preference. It's both good and bad.

It's bad because you pretty much are compelled to prioritize it in the early game. You don't get much real benefit from gradually bumping AGI up throughout the game. You have to go all-in early. I'm not waiting until Undead Crypts to DS1 roll.

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

Do you need the DS1 roll that much? You can pretty easily shift your focus from rolling through attacks to actually, you know, rolling away from them and not getting hit despite lacking invincibility frames. There are some times you definitely want to have a better roll, like tough boss fights, but guess what? By then you'll actually have the agility to spare!

timn
Mar 16, 2010
Learning to roll away from attacks + the really long distances you can roll at even moderate levels of encumbrance is the answer. You don't even have to raise agility at all in the game if you really don't want to, but DS2 expects you to adapt your playstyle to compensate.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

I find iframing through things considerably more reliable than trusting dark souls 2’s famously good hitboxes

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

timn posted:

Learning to roll away from attacks + the really long distances you can roll at even moderate levels of encumbrance is the answer. You don't even have to raise agility at all in the game if you really don't want to, but DS2 expects you to adapt your playstyle to compensate.

:thunk: Away from?

timn
Mar 16, 2010
Yeah, as it turns out when you have all of 3 iframes but you can roll 20ft in one go, it's way easier to roll out of the way of the hitbox completely and then roll back in to attack.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

You can just calmly walk around most attacks once you get the patterns down, at least the ones that don't involve the enemy tracking you til after the attack finishes.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
The big secret to shields is that 100% physical block is massively overrated and you can defend just fine without it at 80%+ as long as you have decent stability.

The twin dragon greatshield is available as soon as you get to majula, has high stability, has incredibly low weight for a greatshield, has solid physical defense and a decent spread of elemental defenses, and has a low strength requirement. I usually wind up using it clear through the dlc and endgame because in addition to being a very strong shield, it's also one of the cooler looking shields.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
Also, fast or even mid rolling is just as much of a crutch as a shield. I've been having more fun than ever on a fatroll build where I have to commit to blocking and managing stamina instead of just having a get out of jail free card when things look hairy.

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Rubellavator
Aug 16, 2007

Sometimes your best punish comes from blocking an attack, sometimes it comes from rolling, and sometimes it just comes from calmly walking to the right position.

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