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necrobobsledder posted:The problem is that wealthier gamers probably will see those i9-9900k benchmarks or the mediocre O/C figures and go with Intel anyway. Price really isn’t as important as raw performance in that segment and it probably won’t matter.... unless those gamers are also content creators or software engineers that do lots of other things with their machines that can make use of those cores. Gaming is a secondary need for me but I do like the lower power usage because it means less heat to worry about cooling and therefore less need for fans and noise.
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Jul 9, 2019 04:49
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Ihmemies posted:Old motherboards had multiple copper heatsinks, connected by heatpipes. Time to start manufacturing them again? At least the mobo prices should cover the expense.. I mean, how primitive a heatsink are we talking here? 1.6mm endmill making equally-tall and equally-thick fins in a chunk of copper? 'Cuz I'll loving fab that poo poo myself if it means I don't have to deal with a fan.
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Jul 9, 2019 04:50
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I mean, how primitive a heatsink are we talking here? 1.6mm endmill making equally-tall and equally-thick fins in a chunk of copper? 'Cuz I'll loving fab that poo poo myself if it means I don't have to deal with a fan. poo poo, tell my how to measure and I’ll pay you to make me one
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Jul 9, 2019 04:59
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Question, does anyone have the IPC figures for Zen+ and Ivy Bridge? Curious to see how that changed for me.
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Jul 9, 2019 05:54
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iospace posted:Question, does anyone have the IPC figures for Zen+ and Ivy Bridge? Curious to see how that changed for me. I don't have numbers right now, but iir, Zen was rougly Haswell, Zen+ roughly Broadwell, give or take, but I could be a touch off
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Jul 9, 2019 09:26
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Ihmemies posted:Old motherboards had multiple copper heatsinks, connected by heatpipes. Time to start manufacturing them again? At least the mobo prices should cover the expense.. This was the motherboard I used with my Phenom 2 quad core  If they made a similar board for X570 with a solid VRM I'd buy it in an instant
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Jul 9, 2019 10:14
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3peat posted:This was the motherboard I used with my Phenom 2 quad core You and me both. I don't want a single penny put on gaudy shrouds and rgb leds. Just finned heatsinks with heatpipes
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Jul 9, 2019 11:45
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Due to a weirdness in pricing + an Asus motherboard 20% rebate when bought with a Ryzen 3000 CPU, I ended up buying the 3600 for now - it's still an upgrade from my 3770K, and will tide me over until 3950X comes out in September  Since I last upgraded my PC (except for the GPU) in 2012, I had a fairly high budget - which I spent on SSDs and silent cooling  My plan for the 3600 eventually is to upgrade my NAS from a Turion II N54L - is there a 450/470 motherboard with a decent amount of SATA ports and CPU-less BIOS upgrade?
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Jul 9, 2019 12:36
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iospace posted:Question, does anyone have the IPC figures for Zen+ and Ivy Bridge? Curious to see how that changed for me. Generally, if you have good RAM then zen1 is about equal to an ivy bridge CPU in games. My 3770k system that scores in the top 1% of 3770k systems gets ~3%-5% more fps than zen1 and maybe 10%-12% more in some latency sensitive AAA titles. In the heavily multithreaded newer titles zen1 will win due to raw core count. Minimum frames are especially bad on the 3770k in heavily multithreaded titles. And while the 3770k does quite well single core, despite being a 4c/8t CPU it starts slouching on 4c workloads when compared to zen1. Zen+ beats my ivy bridge CPU all around but not by a whole lot in 1-4 core tasks (~8%-12%). In anything more than that zen+ leaves it in the dust. Zen2 smokes it by 30% or something ridiculous despite being ~400-600MHz slower. I'm having trouble finding ipc numbers, but zen2 beats the 9900k on ipc. Intel's 10nm should beat zen2 on ipc (zen2 went wide, ice lake went REALLY wide), but they aren't really having a desktop release of that due to it having worse clocks than zen2 and way worse yields making it no better than the latest 14nm desktop parts. For IPC, here's a cinebench plot:  Zen+ has ~19% better IPC in that particular task. It's more complicated than that due to how latency comes into play in other tasks. IPC isn't consistent across operations, memory access patterns, core usage patterns, etc. If zen2 were on that plot at 3.0 then it would probably have ~141 single threaded score minimum. Khorne fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 12:54
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I highly doubt those IPC numbers take into account Spectre/meltdown mitigations or the effects of the new schedule patch and BIOS on zen+.
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Jul 9, 2019 13:15
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Khorne's found numbers probably also do not take into account Spectre/meltdown mitigations or the effects of the new schedule patch and BIOS on zen+. They don't take spectre/meltdown/whatever is getting patched this week into account. That's true. Limiting your processor to 3GHz isn't realistic either, and I didn't check what RAM speeds the reviewer who did that used. Finding IPC numbers is a pain. Khorne fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 13:16
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Khorne posted:Zen1 and Zen+ have better IPC but can't hit the same clocks. Relative performance will depend a lot on task, RAM speed, and what clock speeds you were running each at. Alright, thanks for the info!
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Jul 9, 2019 13:18
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Where should I be looking to find the best x470 motherboards for a Ryzen 3700x? Ideally compatible out of the box or with little effort (assuming this is via USB update). The x570 seems like overkill for the needs I'm shopping for.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:16
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You're pretty much stuck with finding someone to loan you a cpu to flash the new bios if you want x470.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:23
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gepgepgep posted:Where should I be looking to find the best x470 motherboards for a Ryzen 3700x? Ideally compatible out of the box or with little effort (assuming this is via USB update). Basically monitor BIOS discussions on Reddit, especially (even) /r/AMD. Considering that two reviewers fried their CPU, might just wait it out a little be and see what it looks like when the dust settles.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:24
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Beverly Cleavage posted:You're pretty much stuck with finding someone to loan you a cpu to flash the new bios if you want x470. No, there are a ton of boards that support flashing firmware from a USB stick without a processor. Look for "USB BIOS Flashback" or some similar phrasing.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:36
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Fair point. I tend to stick to itx boards (focus of my upcoming build), of which I don't think any support that solution.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:41
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If you don't mind waiting a bit, you'll be able to get pre-flashed b450/x470 boards at some point.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:24
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Arzachel posted:If you don't mind waiting a bit, you'll be able to get pre-flashed b450/x470 boards at some point. I was starting to wonder about that. I figured worst case I could find someone selling their chip on CL locally and yoink it for a few to do a flash if it really came to it.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:36
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If you have any local pc shops, they will probably flash it for you for a fee.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:47
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The microcenter I went to on launch day had a whole bunch of b450 boards with "AMD RYZEN 3000 READY" stickers on the boxes. The one I picked was indeed on a bios that supported the newest lineup.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:53
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I was just an rear end in a top hat when I needed flash my Z370 for 9th gen and ordered an i3 from Walmart then returned it.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:09
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So the only reason intel now beats amd in (low resolution) games is clock speed? If amd could do at least 4,7GHz instead of 4,2-4,3, they would be even?
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Jul 9, 2019 18:19
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Ihmemies posted:So the only reason intel now beats amd in (low resolution) games is clock speed? If amd could do at least 4,7GHz instead of 4,2-4,3, they would be even? heavily simplified, but yes when it comes to average FPS. EDIT: disregard what I typed here earlier, because to address the second half of your post...I don't think that's quite how it'd work as the poster below me notes. AMD's main reason for doing this well is that they practically doubled the number of MIPS (Millions Instructions Per Second) of their CPUs this time around...so a higher clockspeed (which has proven to be p hard for them anyway) likely wouldn't be quite what would close the gap. Doesn't change the fact that, unless you're at the top of competitive gaming, you're not likely to see a noticeable difference between 100 or 110 FPS anyway. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 18:22
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Ihmemies posted:So the only reason intel now beats amd in (low resolution) games is clock speed? If amd could do at least 4,7GHz instead of 4,2-4,3, they would be even?
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Jul 9, 2019 18:31
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Llamadeus posted:No, Intel's architecture still has an advantage in (at least some) games. Hardware Unboxed did a couple of games with the 9900K vs the 3700X at equal frequencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDVUdpcKZMA&t=1278s That result seems strange to me, not that the 9900k is faster but that the 3700X and 2700X have essentially zero to little difference between them despite the increased IPC. Would be interesting to check clock for clock results in more than two games.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:36
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:No, there are a ton of boards that support flashing firmware from a USB stick without a processor. Look for "USB BIOS Flashback" or some similar phrasing. Unfortunately, it's only MSi's mid/top-end ATX/mATX B450 boards and the very-top-end ASUS X470 Crosshair VII and MSI X470 M7. If you're spending $250-300 on an X470 you'd probably be better served by a similarly-priced X570 anyway! Speaking of which, the MSi X570 Gaming Plus and MSi X570-A Pro look decently well-situated at $160. You get two M.2 slots (one of which is PCIe 4.0 x4), 8 USB ports on the back (2x 2.0, 4x 3.1 Gen 1, and 2x Gen 2 including a type-C), an ALC1220 audio codec, and VRM on par with the ASUS Prime X470 Pro or MSi B450 Pro Carbon AC. So far as I can tell, the two boards are exactly the same expect for aesthetics.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:44
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B-Mac posted:That result seems strange to me, not that the 9900k is faster but that the 3700X and 2700X have essentially zero to little difference between them despite the increased IPC. Would be interesting to check clock for clock results in more than two games. There is a small difference, considering overclocking a 3600 raises its heat more, for next to no gain, and that 3700X's Precision Boost does better in that regard with its better cooler...and that even without it 3700X does seem to do sometimes 10FPS better with 1% lows...but yea...not a worthwhile difference really.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:45
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B-Mac posted:That result seems strange to me, not that the 9900k is faster but that the 3700X and 2700X have essentially zero to little difference between them despite the increased IPC. Would be interesting to check clock for clock results in more than two games.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:45
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I have no idea if anyone posted it yet, but De8auer has done a great video on X570 power consumption: https://youtu.be/qk3PD-4zPN0 He also compares X470. tl;dr: It uses more power than X470, around double under full load (~4W vs 9W~). No excuse whatsoever for the lovely little fans that he could find - a basic little chipset heatsink kept it cool enough.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:13
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Thread here: https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1125840275346198529 
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Jul 9, 2019 19:23
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The selection of X470 motherboards was extremely limited, and manufacturers overcompensated a hell of a lot with X570, so the vast segmentation will probably make it easier to find something that isn't "just get Crosshair VII Hero Wi-fi". Especially if you want something that's not ATX.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:23
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I don't actually get X570 as a platform unless they're committing to AM4 for a really long time. I can't see how PCIE4 is relevant on the desktop, especially if it doubles the tdp of the chipset.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:24
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that's ridiculous but please let's not start a thing about systemd in here, I'm terrified that sperglords are gonna come out of the woodwork for a slapfight about it
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Jul 9, 2019 19:25
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HalloKitty posted:that he could find - a basic little chipset heatsink kept it cool enough. Not flashy enough. I'm having a similar problem finding a case. So much garbage available.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:34
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Craptacular! posted:They held off announcing the 3900X at Computex so they could debut it at E3. They really want (wealthy) gamers quickly ramping up to running quadruple the cores that they’re used to. You’re thinking of the 3950X. The 3900X was announced at Computex along with the 3700X and 3800X.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:44
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't actually get X570 as a platform unless they're committing to AM4 for a really long time. I can't see how PCIE4 is relevant on the desktop, especially if it doubles the tdp of the chipset. Pretty much the only use I can think of is running your GPU is 4.0 x8 mode to free up PCIe lanes for other applications. Of course that requires having PCIe 4.0 GPUs. And other applications.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:49
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We haven't heard anything about B550 yet? What's the expected time launch time? End of the year?
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Jul 9, 2019 20:02
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OhFunny posted:We haven't heard anything about B550 yet? Rumors state either end of the year or early next year.
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Jul 9, 2019 20:10
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Probably, but there's nothing official yet except that it's coming. B450 was a bit over three months after X470, so that's probably a minimum window. E: It's also not confirmed to have PCIe 4.0 support, which might actually be a plus. It's not confirmed that it won't either, but ASMedia has talked about it's PCIe 3.0 support which at least suggests that it won't do 4.0. Stickman fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 20:11
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