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"Now class, sometimes you need to take the bit character you're writing fanfict--er, a short story about and really shoehorn them into the main narrative of the franchise, like I did when I made a random droid become the second death star. And before anyone asks, yes, this is going to be on the final."
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Jul 8, 2019 11:33
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Maybe he thought it was one of the “House” prequels and was talking about Kevin Anderson? “House Corrino - The triumphant conclusion - 3.6/5 Stars” heh This is a good thread btw. I’ve been rereading the original since I got the folio society edition for Christmas, which was an embarrassingly good gift tbh. Dude got a Darth Vader Christmas jumper in return. 
Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 19:54
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I was bored today thinking about the Dune map. Arrakis seems to be ridiculously tiny, about the size of the moon, according to the distances in the map. The only way for it to make sense would be if the supposed 60º line was actually more than 80º (equivalent to northern Greenland). If Arrakis is actually the size of the moon (60º line being correct), then it would have to be almost 6 times more dense than the moon for it to have a gravity similar to earth. Yes, yes, I know Frank wasn't a cartographer, but he supposedly paid one to make his map, so  e: this is based on his notes saying the distance from Arrakeen to Carthag is about 200km
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Jul 10, 2019 00:19
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Temaukel posted:If Arrakis is actually the size of the moon (60º line being correct), then it would have to be almost 6 times more dense than the moon for it to have a gravity similar to earth. Thicc Dune
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Jul 10, 2019 00:23
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What I'm saying is, how do we know snorting Moon dust won't give us longer life?
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Jul 10, 2019 00:27
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kiimo posted:What I'm saying is, how do we know snorting Moon dust won't give us longer life? Ask Cave Johnson.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:37
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Temaukel posted:I was bored today thinking about the Dune map. Arrakis seems to be ridiculously tiny, about the size of the moon, according to the distances in the map. The only way for it to make sense would be if the supposed 60º line was actually more than 80º (equivalent to northern Greenland). If Arrakis is actually the size of the moon (60º line being correct), then it would have to be almost 6 times more dense than the moon for it to have a gravity similar to earth. Something something space-folding
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Jul 10, 2019 01:39
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kiimo posted:What I'm saying is, how do we know snorting Moon dust won't give us longer life? NASA says Moon dust is super dangerous to humans because it is so fine that it just collects in the lungs and can't be expelled.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:05
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muscles like this! posted:NASA says Moon dust is super dangerous to humans because it is so fine that it just collects in the lungs and can't be expelled. Sounds like propaganda from an organization that wants to establish a monopoly on moon-dust extraction. 
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Jul 10, 2019 02:18
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So let me get this straight, literal ubermensch Miles Teg kills every single pussy witch he comes across but gets wiped out creating a distraction so the anti-pussy mage who some how suddenly remembers every single one of his past reincarnations of his self can rot for the rest of his life in a no-globe? edit: And Duncan is now a pussy ubermensch of his own? Pimblor fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 02:38
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muscles like this! posted:NASA says Moon dust is super dangerous to humans because it is so fine that it just collects in the lungs and can't be expelled. It’s like the Truthsayer drug. It’s poison.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:47
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Temaukel posted:I was bored today thinking about the Dune map. Arrakis seems to be ridiculously tiny, about the size of the moon, according to the distances in the map. The only way for it to make sense would be if the supposed 60º line was actually more than 80º (equivalent to northern Greenland). If Arrakis is actually the size of the moon (60º line being correct), then it would have to be almost 6 times more dense than the moon for it to have a gravity similar to earth.  I've always read this map as being the livable part of Dune, nearest the polar cap.
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Jul 10, 2019 06:23
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Yeah, all the "inhabited" places on Arrakis are up in the northern polar area, probably due to a mix of the polar ice being a reliable source of water and the rocks making the sandworms less of a constant loving menace. Part of why the Fremen are badly underestimated is that their lifestyle can work elsewhere on Arrakis, and they also sell the Guild enough spice to a. keep satellites out of the sky and b. keep themselves in pundi rice and portyguls.
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Jul 10, 2019 06:52
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THE BAR posted:
Tag urself, I'm Pasty Mesa The demography of Dune is really interesting. How many people are supposed to live on each planet? Are there any planets controlled by multiple factions? Is an unintended/intended side effect of the Butlerian jihad to keep tech levels and hence population numbers low enough that an entire planet can be controlled by one group? If Carthag (always want to put an "e" on the end of that stupid name) to Arakeen is 200km, then that inhabited area is about twice the size of Afghanistan. Good luck controlling that even with a superpower's army on hand.......
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Jul 10, 2019 07:12
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Pimblor posted:So let me get this straight, literal ubermensch Miles Teg kills every single pussy witch he comes across but gets wiped out creating a distraction so the anti-pussy mage who some how suddenly remembers every single one of his past reincarnations of his self can rot for the rest of his life in a no-globe? Quotes like this convince me I was right to stop after Messiah
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Jul 10, 2019 07:15
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They are fairly silly but I liked all the sex ninja stuff when I was 14
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Jul 10, 2019 08:02
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I blew through all the books through God Emperor as fast as I could on audible when I got them with my credits, and I'm struggling pretty hard to get through Heretics. The only thing keeping me going is people saying Chapterhouse is better.
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Jul 10, 2019 08:02
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Temaukel posted:I was bored today thinking about the Dune map. Arrakis seems to be ridiculously tiny, about the size of the moon, according to the distances in the map. The only way for it to make sense would be if the supposed 60º line was actually more than 80º (equivalent to northern Greenland). If Arrakis is actually the size of the moon (60º line being correct), then it would have to be almost 6 times more dense than the moon for it to have a gravity similar to earth. yeah that map ain't a sphere dude
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Jul 10, 2019 08:04
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Quotes like this convince me I was right to stop after Messiah pretty much. GEoD is great but more for its ideas than its narrative and characters, and it's not worth the slog that is CoD. Herbert lost his sense of pacing, romance, or tragedy after Messiah, and he was never the greatest at interpersonal stuff to begin with. Messiah is the proper coda for the Atreides.
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Jul 10, 2019 08:09
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:yeah that map ain't a sphere dude i was wondering what nasa wasnt showing us
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Jul 10, 2019 08:12
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i see what temaukel is saying, if arrakeen to carthag is 200km, then from 60 degrees north to the north pole is less than 1,500, whereas for earth that number is...over 6000?
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Jul 10, 2019 08:13
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:yeah that map ain't a sphere dude I know that. It's a conical projection of the 60º polar circle. If the distance from Arrakeen to Carthag is 200km, each of the 36 arcs of the 60º line would be around 157km, and the planet only has a radius of approximately 1800km. I apologize if I explained it in a convoluted way, English is not my first language. 
Temaukel fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 08:15
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also dune's surface gravity is .9g
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Jul 10, 2019 08:16
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Jul 10, 2019 08:22
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and they can travel from 60 north to 40 south with twenty thumpers, or "at least ten days and nights" on earth thats like going from st petersburg to cape town. e: wait, that would be just like 50km an hour? 100 degrees out of 360, times 40 thousand km, divided by 240 hours, right? i guess that's believable for an impossible super-animal Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 08:22
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Arrakis is dense, because at its core sits @duneauthor, the densest author there is
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Jul 10, 2019 08:25
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Temaukel posted:I know that. It's a conical projection of the 60º polar circle. If the distance from Arrakeen to Carthag is 200km, each of the 36 arcs of the 60º line would be around 157km, and the planet only has a radius of approximately 1800km. sorry my bad
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Jul 10, 2019 08:33
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I'm gonna flex my cartography muscle a bit. Are we positive that it's a 60 degree line? edit: looking at other Dune maps it seems so. Also the projection looks to be gnomonic, hence the weirdly long outstretched meridian lines. In this projection even the equator is impossible to be drawn.  In any case, yes Dune would be much smaller than Earth but at the same time, the map seems to be produced after at least consulting with a cartographer, but decidedly not with an astrophysicist. Anne Frank Funk fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 08:39
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Quotes like this convince me I was right to stop after Messiah "I'm not your damned breeding stud!" Duncan roared.
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Jul 10, 2019 12:06
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Doc Hawkins posted:and they can travel from 60 north to 40 south with twenty thumpers, or "at least ten days and nights" It just says 20 thumpers to the palmaries of the south. I assumed the palmaries were just a ways south and not in the actual southern hemisphere. If you're at the north pole than everything is south of you!
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Jul 10, 2019 12:51
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One factor that would also help Arrakis be bigger in practical terms is that there isn't any ocean. I don't think there was much of that even in Leto's time.
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Jul 10, 2019 12:53
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Mad Hamish posted:It just says 20 thumpers to the palmaries of the south. I assumed the palmaries were just a ways south and not in the actual southern hemisphere. If you're at the north pole than everything is south of you! You would think that palm trees couldn't grow in abundance right on the brutal equator of Arrakis, however, and would likely be as far south as the shield wall is north if not further. A tree is considered a ludicrous extravagance in Arrakeen.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:26
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The notes on the map say the palmaries lie around 40° south and are thus well off the map. So yeah I mean you’d have to accept that either Dune is significantly smaller than Earth or that worms can haul rear end at ~25mph for 12 hours before getting exhausted, but honestly that’s not much harder to believe than anything else about worms. skasion fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 13:29
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I choose to believe that the 60º line is actually 81º north, and Arrakis is just slightly smaller than Earth. I doubt that Frank wanted his planet to be so small.
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Jul 10, 2019 14:08
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Temaukel posted:I choose to believe that the 60º line is actually 81º north, and Arrakis is just slightly smaller than Earth. I doubt that Frank wanted his planet to be so small. Either that or he seriously lowballed the distance from Carthag to Arrakeen. 200km is kind of oddly close for major urban centers, especially in a resource-poor environment. Riyadh and Jeddah are like, five times further apart than that.
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Jul 10, 2019 14:33
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You'd think that the off-world colonists would set up shop at both poles, unless the Guild tells them there's no ice down there or something.BeanpolePeckerwood posted:pretty much. GEoD is great but more for its ideas than its narrative and characters, and it's not worth the slog that is CoD. Herbert lost his sense of pacing, romance, or tragedy after Messiah, and he was never the greatest at interpersonal stuff to begin with. Messiah is the proper coda for the Atreides. You say this poo poo like you haven't even read the part with the attack tigers who need to be trained to eat two kids by eating real kids who look exactly like the kids they're being trained to eat, down to wearing authentically luxurious shirts with real priceless jewels.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:37
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Do you have ANY IDEA how hard it is to condition laza tigers to attack the TWO specific targets out of ZERO other options, in the middle of the deadliest desert to ever desert? DO YOU?
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Jul 10, 2019 15:47
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The bit with the Baron and his caramel-looking globe tells us that it is known that there is a southern polar cap and that it is known that the “habitable” region is smaller near there — below 70°S only as opposed to above 60°N. However that’s still a lot of territory. Honestly rereading that stuff with the map’s scale problem in mind makes me wonder if Frank understood how latitude works.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:47
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Here, it's been retconned in the encyclopedia:quote:Arrakis has a density of 4.95 g/cm3 and an acceleration due to gravity of 864 cm/sec2. With a gravitational attraction of this magnitude, the light gases such as hydrogen and helium have all but escaped into space. Atmospheric pressure at the equator is 760 mm, about average for a planet of this diameter and mass. quote:Arrakis by comparison has a corresponding radius of only 6,128 kilometers (actually 6127.9621438 kilometers as of year 14521 for those readers interested in such details). Earth, basically
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Jul 10, 2019 15:57
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Imagine being the cartographer whose slipshod estimates of planet size for some horndog pulp writer would years later cause nerds to wring themselves into knots over the internet.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:15
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