League of Legends: This New Champion Slaps

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > League of Legends: This New Champion Slaps

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:

Im looking at for example Varus that he evaluates so highly, that I know for a fact is a pretty bad unit if you just stick him in even WITH synergy, so he must be thinking of specific item + team synergy combo that "activates" him to the point where he is placing him far above even popular powerful individual units on that list. Someone above mentioned that he fills out Glacial nicely to buff Ashe, but get this, if that's his only role on the team he wouldnt be placed at A tier, it's something else.

Varus is actually really good in a sorcerer comp because his ult can hit a whole team for huge damage and it and demon mana burn damage scales with AP (along with every other loving thing in this game). He's also central to demon comps. People been sleeping on him cause in ranger comps he's just a lovely archer with an ult that takes too much of his attack time. Use him like a demon spell caster if you want him to be good.

PSA: Double Hydra and RFC and 4 gunslinger are enough to hit the gunslinger bug on Tristana where she doesn't actually fire. So avoid 4 bows on Tristana and always avoid rageblade on Tristana. Probably a good idea for every gunslinger but who knows with attack speed differences.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 04:18

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:13

Kite Pride Worldwide: Apr 20, 2009

6 Glacial is amazing if you use a Frozen Mallet in there to cap out early and give someone the stun buff who shouldn't have it. Earlier I had Runaan's Ashe/Sej/Liss/Volibear/Braum/Mallet Vayne with Blitz supporting and it was insane. Ashe and Vayne stunlocked whatever wasn't being CC'd by the others. Spatula items can be really, really gamebreaking if you leverage them right.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 04:26

Dr. Video Games 0112: Jan 7, 2004; serious business

Phigs posted:

Varus is actually really good in a sorcerer comp because his ult can hit a whole team for huge damage and it and demon mana burn damage scales with AP (along with every other loving thing in this game). He's also central to demon comps. People been sleeping on him cause in ranger comps he's just a lovely archer with an ult that takes too much of his attack time. Use him like a demon spell caster if you want him to be good.

PSA: Double Hydra and RFC and 4 gunslinger are enough to hit the gunslinger bug on Tristana where she doesn't actually fire. So avoid 4 bows on Tristana and always avoid rageblade on Tristana. Probably a good idea for every gunslinger but who knows with attack speed differences.

Varus was just an example, my point was that like you mentioned he is a key player in demon teams, but the thing is absolutely no one is singing praise of demon synergy teams and how OP they are (maybe someone is, not that I heard.) You almost always see people going Assassin or Glacial or something like Pirate -> ?
So, I really dont think the person who wrote the tier list included him high for that reason. It could be if he is evaluating units in ideal scenarios, but thats very hard to compare without manually testing each unit against every possible counter in optimal conditions, so it's probably more of a guess. Again, just glancing at the tier list, I would assume there is some Varus combo that people know and the person who made the tier list knows that specifically makes him stronger than other options with the same/similar powered items in a well fitting team. The general point was that unit power and unit+item combos is what makes comps and synergies good not the other way around. Of course on paper everyone looks good and you can easily pick out a couple of items that would make them strong, but that is very different than beating meta teams and specific synergies or item combos consistently, which is presumably the point of evaluation in a tier list.

I used Varus as an example because I specifically used him in the method that you described when I was first trying things and even generic options like Trist and Vayne seemed to outperform him on average.

Dr. Video Games 0112 fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 05:08

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

The problem with Varus is he takes about 4 years to cast his ability.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 05:09

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:

I used Varus as an example because I specifically used him in the method that you described when I was first trying things and even generic options like Trist and Vayne seemed to outperform him on average.

Yeah I get it, just wanted to take the opportunity to explain why Varus is good.

Demons is sleeper for sure though. It hard counters CC tanks which are very meta right now and I think we'll see demons pick up in play as we go along. I've been getting blown up by demon comps more frequently in the top 4 which is why I've been wanting to force them to learn them. There's a time when everyone is getting their expensive frontlines and demons just poo poo on them. People are spending 12 gold plus rerolls on sejuanis and cho'gaths that are basically overpriced garens and warwicks against demons. They've got PBE buffs too so I expect them to maybe even be overpowered next patch.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 05:27

Kite Pride Worldwide: Apr 20, 2009

Varus is alright but indeed held back by his absurdly long cast time. His ability is at least really potent but I've lost rounds waiting for him to just get it off. He's really just best used as the missing piece for Ranger and to add Brand to said Ranger comp later, which I'd say is worth the price of admission. You can also Darkin another high-speed attacker and let them mana burn forever. At least he doesn't hold his archetype back like certain other units *cough cough*Fiora Poppy Rek'sai Gangplank Mordekaiser*cough cough*

Kite Pride Worldwide fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 05:43

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

I just went from 8th to 1st and beat a stacked 6 Glacial / 3 Rangers guy 3 times in a row to win

Used 6 Demons and Ashe+Sej, double Guinsoo and Titanic on the Ashe, Zephyr on Sej, and I would knock up the enemy Sejuani at the start of every fight, repositioning as he tried to switch it up with his own moves, but the real carry for me was Brand with Morellonomicon and Seraph's so he would ult 2-3 times a fight :feelsgood:

# ? Jul 10, 2019 06:02

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

Chris de Sperg posted:

my computer poo poo the bed so the screenshots are bad but i suspect they mostly get the point across

so i had this muted, i know you have some comms in there but it doesn't hugely matter for what i'm going to say, even if you've got a good duo it's always good to be improving what's going on in your own head

so on that note, we'll start with matchup. you're Sivir-Nami in this game vs Jinx-Lux. you should basically be setting a mental checklist, and that starts just with setting a couple questions for yourself:

1) who gets to push in this lane levels 1 and 2?
2) who wins fights in this lane at level 6?

don't worry if it's hard or you can't come to a firm conclusion, just try to at least have an idea of it - doing the exercise is more important for improvement early on than anything else. so in this case:

1) this is usually just which ADC can do more in terms of hitting the wave except for some extreme cases. so Sivir vs Jinx. should be fairly even imo, Sivir tends to be very, very good at this but Jinx has her rockets and her attack speed. so neither of you will be pushed into your tower early unless someone fucks up

2) just think of the ultimates here, and if possible, the junglers. in this case, you've got Sivir run-at-them, Nami has her tidal wave, and Zac can jump at them. neither Jinx nor Lux has crowd control on their ults, and neither of them can quickly dash without having Flash. so you're gonna win at level 6 with all else being even most likely.

you see Jinx up there before this, but when you see Jinx mid at this point, you've kinda got two choices, because you want to prevent her getting CS obviously:

a) you don't push the wave at all except to CS, and you hope that you can deny her getting XP off the three melee minions

b) you push super-fast and hope you can get it into tower before their next wave comes

i think b) is the call here, because your Q does a good amount of damage to the wave, and it's on a low enough cooldown that you can use it twice, so you probably can get it into the tower. as it is, you don't really do either (try not to attempt to CS with your Q as level-1 Sivir, just put damage down on the wave), but Nami is able to harass her off so it still works

your duo is insanely stupid here, she can't put this harass down when she's still level 1. don't even turn back to fight Lux imo, just keep moving, you don't have good single-target damage at this point (no items, not much Attack Speed on your kit, nothing like e.g. Vayne's 3-hit that helps you do more damage)

you do have to just stay in this lane but probably better to be playing on the other side of the lane. you don't give yourself room to dodge Lux if she Qs you, and you get real lucky on this kill

yes to running back when you see this, but the moment that he Ws in on you and you spend your spell shield, flash towards your tower/incoming wave so that it's going to at least require him to flash to get off his Q, i don't think you die here if you do that

good Q but

unless i'm very much mistaken, lux didn't have heal summoner in this game, so flash-autoattack-W-autoattack (W resets your autoattack timer) and lee is probably dead (and also you'll have Q). no need to protect Zac blobs, Lux has a small chance at getting him before he revives and realistically she's going to chase you if you go after Lee. you're full health, i think it's worth the risk

i'm presuming your reflexes aren't great but Sivir E does nothing if he's already tagged you with Q, once you've gone this low keep holding E and either go for the flash play (i think you took enough damage that he would just kill you the moment he reactivated anyway though) or run back so that you have a shot at getting him too deep under tower if he comes back in

you probably don't want to trade damage with Jinx 1v1 like this. she has more range than you so she'll always get the last hit, and i think she does more damage auto-attacking anyway because of the attack speed on her Q. if you're gonna harass at all, and you should be careful with that because your mana is gonna go quickly, throw Q, walk back. you could use this situation to move quickly down and hit the Lux and maybe get a kill because Nami is doing good damage here, but baby steps

i don't enormously like getting crit cloak at this point, you've got 934 gold and the lane has been insanely unstable, you'll likely have 1300 on your next back if you save most of that money now (and there's a very good chance you won't have 1300 if you don't) and a BF is going to do a lot more for you. if anything, i would get a dagger so that you can guarantee Berserker's Greaves next time you're there, since you aren't going to do poo poo until you have them anyway. (also you haven't popped potion at all in any of these fights)

your duo has to stop this poo poo, she's a level down, she's gotten hit by every Lux Q this game, and it's not going to accomplish much. wait for the wave.

finish your recall here. you have 40 mana and no attack speed, you are not going to make a difference in any fight, and Jinx/Lux will be back to lane imminently so you're going to lose a TON of tower health if youre not ready to catch them

again: also leave at this point (having pushed the wave in). you have 2200 gold and no attack speed. you do not do much damage to towers right now, you are not going to win a race against Jinx/Lux for first tower, and trying to flank them is going to mean a fight that takes so long to materialise that absolutely everybody CAN be there if they want it. and they will have items and you will not.

press R at this exact moment. i'm not sure if you can kill her through heal and shield, but she's below half health after that Nami burst, youve definitely got a chance. take your pick on which way to run towards her (i would take the long way south so Lux can't Q both of you), but close their duo down and at least force them off and probably her to recall

[
you want to take a couple of shots from dragon here because a) you almost certainly need to recall anyway but more importantly b) you can use E to block hits from dragons and get mana, which may be enough to let you clear an additional wave before you go

you need to recall here right now, your ult is up soon but probably not quite soon enough, and you will do zero damage in said fight because you still have nothing mana-wise

hit R. run back through that bush, across the ledge, to your tower, recall. it might at least keep a couple more people alive. but again, you can't be on the map at all when you've got this much of a pile of nothing

this is probably OK, but i am kinda inclined to say that i'd rather have more BF swordsand complete an early Infinity Edge at this point honestly. your summoners are down, all your damage this game has been from Qs, you probably aren't going to be able to touch towers for a while anyway since Nami is eating too many Lux Qs, and if you get hit ever then you're already dead with Lux/Lee chaining their stuff. but, judgement call

your team's fight was perhaps not the best (cant really see well enough) but i would hit R and go fully for this way earlier, around about this point. she is insanely separated from the rest of the team here and already took a shitton of damage, also you have PD, as long as you don't walk into the bush south and hence both take her full ult you're fine. worst case scenario is that you get back to your own mid tower while they're distracted and are in a better position to waveclear. (for others: Illaoi is on ~35% health and just disappeared from vision in that tiny little spot next to her tentacle, it's a little bugged i think)

don't try to set up Baron here, get them to come mid. rule of thumb is that with all else being equal, you would want tier-2 tower before really thinking about setting up for Baron. and certainly don't do it before you've got tier-1. rushing it is a bit different but you don't have the composition or numbers advantage to actually rush it.

the whole sequence at this point (where you start heading bot, decide you can't, clear the jungle instead, and your team gets rinsed in a fight after) is really wonky, let's take it in stages:

1) in an ideal situation, when Baron is possible, and you dont have Teleport, you dont want to be farming the lane that's away from the Baron anyway. but this is soloq so hey

2) i THINK that lane is naturally pushing against you anyway. if it's pushing into you, someone needs to clear it. if it's pushing away from you, nobody needs to clear it unless they can think they can put pressure on a tower or on the map situation as a result. you aren't likely to pressure the tower in this situation, and you definitely aren't going to pressure the map because again: it's away from the Baron.

3) as a guy without Teleport and with Baron in play, you need to be as ready as possible for fights. don't clear the jungle camps, just run through as safe a route as possible and get to your team so that if a fight breaks out, you can actually do something in it

there's not too much to say after the last few minutes because you're mostly following your team around at this point of the game. the one thing: Last Whisper is terrible in this situation because the enemy team has a Lee Sin jungle and a Lux support, i.e. the roles where you might get a lot of armour will probably not buy too much armour. and also Illaoi was not really a serious threat from what i saw. my rule of thumb tends to be that i want two AS and two AD items on most traditional ADCs like Sivir by 4 items anyway because it's rarely the wrong call for maximising DPS. so RFC or Shiv most likely. (and also it gives no crit chance which is unfortunate as well)

Wow! thanks chris. please don�t call my friend an idiot, he�s a really smart guy and is much better than me at this dumb game.

I didn�t realize the componennts were not equally good, what stat should I prioritize as Sivir, where does her name even come from? I had an ex wife (Fat Mike�s editor note: I couldn�t figure out where I was going with this but it might have been pretty funny, please feel free to imagine it)

I thought that I could hold E for the second half of the lee sin hadoken and leap combo, for that matter I was also having trouble in a later game with a morgana. can I shield just the first part of spells or the second activiation too?

i should be more aggressive I think I�m taking from your comments. that�s definitely a reasonable goal bc my duo partner (who is Not and idiot!) is very aggressive as you can see. pretty sure that�s why he got platinum.

thank you for the tips on items. I will remember two attack speed and two attack damage items if nobody is building armor (which. My very smart duo, Adam, pointedly brought my attention to in the game itself)

please try to be more polite to my friends in the future. thank you for watching my �Tube, and I will have another recording ready tomorrow. we kinda chilled out tonight playing team fight tactics and basically acting the fools, it was fun but unproductive for my league career. even though we lost the last game, we didn�t lose any LP for it...not sure how they ve changed it for the season but I didn�t even have to do my 10 placement games.

thanks for your patience guys. I�m pretty excitable and weird sometimes so hopefully you can stand my videos. did my commentary need to be improved, I can figure out howto increase the pickup on my microphone input, or lower the master volume. using OBM fwiw.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 07:26

Verviticus: Mar 13, 2006; I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.

your friend seemed like a cool dude but also seemed like he was goofing really badly, presumably because youre not a great player and he doesnt feel the pressure to play well. he made a shocking number of bad decisions for a plat player trying to carry a silver player

# ? Jul 10, 2019 07:45

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

Verviticus posted:

your friend seemed like a cool dude but also seemed like he was goofing really badly, presumably because youre not a great player and he doesnt feel the pressure to play well. he made a shocking number of bad decisions for a plat player trying to carry a silver player

yeah, maybe! I don�t know, we aren�t being super serious about things, because he used to get really mad at the game (egged on by me to be fair, irl he�s a really patient guy), and I�m pretty sure he got plat either last season or the one before, and hasn�t played since, so he�s not at the top of his game either. but since we started fresh last weekend we�ve been ha ing a lot of fun win or lose, so I figure it�s a good time to catch my own skills up to his.

he only made plat V also so maybe not a consistent plat gamer, just like I made gold a few seasons ago but haven�t been able to replicate it since. I�m giving you a thanks too verviticus, I�m surprised anyone wanted to review that dumb game. thank�s.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 07:56

Dely Apple: Apr 22, 2006; Sing me Spanish Techno

So, TFT gives experience now? Oh that's my first win of the day XP :coolfish:

I guess not. It'd be nice for some of us still on our way to 30 and would rather eat bees than blind queue, I guess!

Dely Apple fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 09:49

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

I don't think it gives xp? It does work for first win of the day though.

Demon forcing trip report:

That's the second time I remembered to try it. The other one was a demon elemental build that finished third. Didn't manage to find Swain to finish off demon 6 (Eve I ignore as she deserves) but obviously it was enough. Demons feel pretty drat strong. They're a little awkward to build but that might be a combination of having no tier 1 demon and me not being used to it, and Elise is maybe tier 1 next patch as she is on PBE. Aatrox is brutal, his AoE does very surprising amounts of damage. People should be playing more Aatrox. Elise doesn't do too much beyond demon burn and clog up the board with spiders but both are actually useful things. I think she might actually be... good, in a demon comp. I put 2 zekes and a PD on morgana and she just soloed assassin comps. Brand is of course good. Varus I made a sorcerer and he did some decent damage. I didn't put items on Veigar so he didn't really skew things. He mostly ulted stuff I was gonna kill anyway.

So far sorc felt stronger than elemental but not enough data to know. Rangers seems like the third logical option for demons which I haven't tried yet. Overall though demons feel pretty strong and a viable base comp like ranger or elemental or sorc to build off rather than a side thing like how I think many of us have approached the origin before. There's no tanks but honestly you don't really need tanks in this game as the tanks aren't really much beefier than just whatever after the early game. I think early game knights gave everyone the wrong impression there.

Phigs fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 10:14

Kite Pride Worldwide: Apr 20, 2009

Has there been word about making items more consistent? I've had too many games lost due to terrible item RNG. I had one particular one where I got a whopping 6 items (including draft freebies) by Raptors while I saw other fuckers with fully kitted out characters and leftovers to spare. It's bullshit that arguably the most important contributor to winning is 100% luck.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 11:20

kingcobweb: Apr 16, 2005

Phigs posted:

I don't think it gives xp? It does work for first win of the day though.

Demon forcing trip report:

That's the second time I remembered to try it. The other one was a demon elemental build that finished third. Didn't manage to find Swain to finish off demon 6 (Eve I ignore as she deserves) but obviously it was enough. Demons feel pretty drat strong. They're a little awkward to build but that might be a combination of having no tier 1 demon and me not being used to it, and Elise is maybe tier 1 next patch as she is on PBE. Aatrox is brutal, his AoE does very surprising amounts of damage. People should be playing more Aatrox. Elise doesn't do too much beyond demon burn and clog up the board with spiders but both are actually useful things. I think she might actually be... good, in a demon comp. I put 2 zekes and a PD on morgana and she just soloed assassin comps. Brand is of course good. Varus I made a sorcerer and he did some decent damage. I didn't put items on Veigar so he didn't really skew things. He mostly ulted stuff I was gonna kill anyway.

So far sorc felt stronger than elemental but not enough data to know. Rangers seems like the third logical option for demons which I haven't tried yet. Overall though demons feel pretty strong and a viable base comp like ranger or elemental or sorc to build off rather than a side thing like how I think many of us have approached the origin before. There's no tanks but honestly you don't really need tanks in this game as the tanks aren't really much beefier than just whatever after the early game. I think early game knights gave everyone the wrong impression there.

You could do 5 demon, Nidalee, Gnar, turn one of those two into a demon with Spatula. Gets you Shapeshifter with Elise -> Swain.

edit: legit Nidalee with RFC and mana burn might be insane

# ? Jul 10, 2019 11:22

A_Account: Nov 29, 2016; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

TFT is awful and I really don't understand why you're all sucking its dick. I generally place top 5 but it's basically impossible to come first with any skill, rng ruins thr game especially when it comes to items.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 12:07

Waterfall Watcher: Dec 17, 2018; How to ~~ruin~~ improve game sessions & family ties with one simple question.

-Would this be better if I used poison?

pog boyfriend posted:

this is like saying "every time you get 3 star yasuo in a full blademaster comp you win, therefore full blademaster is the best comp in TFT. full glacial is not necessary, 4 glacial is good enough for stunlocking, especially if you have a sejuani. 6 glacials means you are going to be running suboptimal units(liss is not the hottest out there, and you never want to have braum) when instead you could be trying to get elementalist synergy, or focusing on powerful units like kindred, lulu, gnar, cho, etc. going for 6 glacial has a problem where at one point you have 5 glacial, running 1 suboptimal unit and waiting for another(usually anivia) which is actually very weak and can get you knocked out of the game, and the power bonus for getting 6 glacial is really not all that much better than just putting in stronger units to round out your team.

The brand was just an example but yeah early glacial is fairly useless it's mainly just a late game sort of deal where if you do manage to find all the glacial champs you would be running basically any semi glacial comp UNTIL late game. If you can get all the champs then if you can just switch out one of them with a frost mallet for optimal builds and synergies. That 45% freeze rate compared to only 30% is worth putting on the braum and liz(temporarily).
So let me rephrase Pure Glacial is the best Late game builds(if you can also trade out one of the champs with one with frost mallet especially).

# ? Jul 10, 2019 12:13

Waterfall Watcher: Dec 17, 2018; How to ~~ruin~~ improve game sessions & family ties with one simple question.

-Would this be better if I used poison?

Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

Has there been word about making items more consistent? I've had too many games lost due to terrible item RNG. I had one particular one where I got a whopping 6 items (including draft freebies) by Raptors while I saw other fuckers with fully kitted out characters and leftovers to spare. It's bullshit that arguably the most important contributor to winning is 100% luck.

There has, it's going to be in the next patch that's been rescheduled to next week. The way it's going to work is that an item will spawn after every minion phase.

A_Account posted:

TFT is awful and I really don't understand why you're all sucking its dick. I generally place top 5 but it's basically impossible to come first with any skill, rng ruins thr game especially when it comes to items.

TFT is pretty good. What's stopping you from getting consistent top 3's is that you're likely not listening to the pulse of the game. What items does the game give you? What champions are rotating for you.? What champs the other players have that is reducing the pool of that champ for you.
Depending on the items you get at the start is going to affect your endgame like there is little reason to go flagship draven if you're not getting recursive bows through chance/rotation or if you're not getting any imperials and blademasters.
Positioning in endgame has a lot of skill involved where you can win or lose depending on where you put your guys. Positioning is where an alright team of level 2's of okay synergies can take on teams of several level 3's with great synergies and win.
I suggest waiting till the next patch comes out when the game drops a lot of the rng for the item drops.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 12:33

Sexpansion: Mar 22, 2003; DELETED

A_Account posted:

TFT is awful and I really don't understand why you're all sucking its dick. I generally place top 5 but it's basically impossible to come first with any skill, rng ruins thr game especially when it comes to items.

I regularly come in first :shrug:

# ? Jul 10, 2019 13:28

Sexpansion: Mar 22, 2003; DELETED

Phigs posted:

I don't think it gives xp? It does work for first win of the day though.

Demon forcing trip report:

That's the second time I remembered to try it. The other one was a demon elemental build that finished third. Didn't manage to find Swain to finish off demon 6 (Eve I ignore as she deserves) but obviously it was enough. Demons feel pretty drat strong. They're a little awkward to build but that might be a combination of having no tier 1 demon and me not being used to it, and Elise is maybe tier 1 next patch as she is on PBE. Aatrox is brutal, his AoE does very surprising amounts of damage. People should be playing more Aatrox. Elise doesn't do too much beyond demon burn and clog up the board with spiders but both are actually useful things. I think she might actually be... good, in a demon comp. I put 2 zekes and a PD on morgana and she just soloed assassin comps. Brand is of course good. Varus I made a sorcerer and he did some decent damage. I didn't put items on Veigar so he didn't really skew things. He mostly ulted stuff I was gonna kill anyway.

So far sorc felt stronger than elemental but not enough data to know. Rangers seems like the third logical option for demons which I haven't tried yet. Overall though demons feel pretty strong and a viable base comp like ranger or elemental or sorc to build off rather than a side thing like how I think many of us have approached the origin before. There's no tanks but honestly you don't really need tanks in this game as the tanks aren't really much beefier than just whatever after the early game. I think early game knights gave everyone the wrong impression there.

What items did you end up with?

# ? Jul 10, 2019 13:33

Dr. Video Games 0112: Jan 7, 2004; serious business

A_Account posted:

TFT is awful and I really don't understand why you're all sucking its dick. I generally place top 5 but it's basically impossible to come first with any skill, rng ruins thr game especially when it comes to items.

Kinda weird reverse experience I had was placing 1st plenty of times with just plopping in any items on got on whoever I vaguely thought could use whatever. I havent really seen anybody claiming it's some amazing game in this thread. It's definitely not a skill-centric genre.

All items just translate to more damage in one way or another, some are just broken.

Dr. Video Games 0112 fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 14:04

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

Sexpansion posted:

What items did you end up with?

Yuumi on Varus. 2 zekes and a PD on Morganna. 1 PD on Aatrox. 1 tear on Brand. I can't remember if I finished an item with the tear but I don't think so.

PDs were cause my previous demon game seemed most vulnerable to assassins.

Phigs fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 14:52

Harry Potter on Ice: Nov 4, 2006; IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED

This is amazing TFT is going to bring out a whole new round of dorks who think they arent bad but actually are really bad. I'd be higher elo if the rng wasnt so bad for me!!

# ? Jul 10, 2019 15:01

pog boyfriend: Jul 2, 2011

Dely Apple posted:

So, TFT gives experience now? Oh that's my first win of the day XP

I guess not. It'd be nice for some of us still on our way to 30 and would rather eat bees than blind queue, I guess!

what region are you in? there is a pretty active NA playerbase which can help make queueing normals much more palatable

Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:

Kinda weird reverse experience I had was placing 1st plenty of times with just plopping in any items on got on whoever I vaguely thought could use whatever. I havent really seen anybody claiming it's some amazing game in this thread. It's definitely not a skill-centric genre.

All items just translate to more damage in one way or another, some are just broken.

i could say no they dont, but you do not seem to be receptive to the idea that item choice, unit placement, board watching, strategic and tactical decision making, and team composition counterpicks constitute skill so i just think you do not seem like you understand game design much

# ? Jul 10, 2019 15:40

M. Night Skymall: Mar 22, 2012

Harry Potter on Ice posted:

This is amazing TFT is going to bring out a whole new round of dorks who think they arent bad but actually are really bad. I'd be higher elo if the rng wasnt so bad for me!!

You don't get it man, dog is just the luckiest man alive how else does he also win at hearthstone?

# ? Jul 10, 2019 15:43

Harry Potter on Ice: Nov 4, 2006; IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED

M. Night Skymall posted:

You don't get it man, dog is just the luckiest man alive how else does he also win at hearthstone?

If you really think about it.. someone has to be Really Lucky like... win all the time lucky. I'm just temporarily silver lucky

# ? Jul 10, 2019 15:48

Dr. Video Games 0112: Jan 7, 2004; serious business

pog boyfriend posted:

what region are you in? there is a pretty active NA playerbase which can help make queueing normals much more palatable

i could say no they dont, but you do not seem to be receptive to the idea that item choice, unit placement, board watching, strategic and tactical decision making, and team composition counterpicks constitute skill so i just think you do not seem like you understand game design much

Yeah, maybe I should apply to work on TFT.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:02

milkman dad: Aug 13, 2007

A_Account posted:

TFT is awful and I really don't understand why you're all sucking its dick. I generally place top 5 but it's basically impossible to come first with any skill, rng ruins thr game especially when it comes to items.

You should consider winning top 3, not top 5. You don't find it fun because you're playing it like a dice roll.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:26

Elentor: Dec 14, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A_Account posted:

TFT is awful and I really don't understand why you're all sucking its dick. I generally place top 5 but it's basically impossible to come first with any skill, rng ruins thr game especially when it comes to items.

Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:

Kinda weird reverse experience I had was placing 1st plenty of times with just plopping in any items on got on whoever I vaguely thought could use whatever. I havent really seen anybody claiming it's some amazing game in this thread. It's definitely not a skill-centric genre.

All items just translate to more damage in one way or another, some are just broken.

Just because it has RNG doesn't mean it's not a skill-centric game. That's like saying it's impossible to make a profit playing Poker because you can't control the cards that you get.

Right now the RNG in TFT is terrible and one of the worst designs I've seen in a while because it definitely looks like it's mimicking mario party or mario kart where everyone has a shot at the sun except they don't because if you know what you're doing you're gonna wreck everyone else so the end result is just punishing mediocre players from time to time instead of slingshotting them to a victory. But that doesn't mean you can't play around it when it doesn't suit you.

TFT is just a card game in disguise. You play the odds. The skill is in finding how to do that with the hand you're dealt. Sometimes you're dealt an incredibly lovely hand. To "compensate" that you can see the hand of every other player but even if you couldn't right now it's very easy to lowball into the top 3 which will likely be considered a win for MMR purposes once ranked is out.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:33

M. Night Skymall: Mar 22, 2012

Top 4 is considered a win for MMR purposes, and for obvious reasons since you've beaten 50% of the people by getting 4th. It will depend a little on the MMR of the people in the lobby. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/07/dev-ranked-teamfight-tactics/

There is a reason most of the tournaments so far are Bo3 or Bo5 with points based on placements though, a single game is going to have a lot of RNG, but if you low roll just aim for top 4 and be happy that you did well with a bad hand. The RNG doesn't bother me at all but the bugs are annoying, 9.14 can't come soon enough.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:40

Elentor: Dec 14, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

quote:

You�ll gain a lot more LP when you finish a TFT game in first place, since you�re basically beating seven other players in that game. You�ll typically gain some LP if you finish 4th or higher, and lose some LP if you finish 5th or lower, but spots in the middle will have fairly small changes for most games.

Oh yeah, then this is going to be trivial. I was joking around in disc that if top 4 is enough to gain LP then a lot of PUBG-like strategies of just hiding afk in a cliff will work. Lowballing to #3 or #4 consistently should make for an extremely safe climb.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:43

Syrinxx: Mar 28, 2002; Death is whimsical today

TFT is bad because the item rounds are worse than just RNG, they turn the game from "playing the odds" to "did you get randomly assfucked by receiving no items while other dude has 3 completed items they can put on their draven"

Underlords is definitely the superior game but maybe some QoL improvements to TFT will happen and it will be actually kind of fun at some point

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:50

Dr. Video Games 0112: Jan 7, 2004; serious business

Elentor posted:

Just because it has RNG doesn't mean it's not a skill-centric game. That's like saying it's impossible to make a profit playing Poker because you can't control the cards that you get.

Right now the RNG in TFT is terrible and one of the worst designs I've seen in a while because it definitely looks like it's mimicking mario party or mario kart where everyone has a shot at the sun except they don't because if you know what you're doing you're gonna wreck everyone else so the end result is just punishing mediocre players from time to time instead of slingshotting them to a victory. But that doesn't mean you can't play around it when it doesn't suit you.

TFT is just a card game in disguise. You play the odds. The skill is in finding how to do that with the hand you're dealt. Sometimes you're dealt an incredibly lovely hand. To "compensate" that you can see the hand of every other player but even if you couldn't right now it's very easy to lowball into the top 3 which will likely be considered a win for MMR purposes once ranked is out.

I didn't say it was not a skill-centric game because it has RNG. The RNG dominates most match ups now, as you admit, imagine what it will be like when everyone knows every match up and the best comps are set in stone.
I dont actually have any issue doing well in this game, precisely for the reason you mention, how much it borrows from card games, I think people that never played one probably struggle a lot more because it is a DRAFTING mode, it's just that the bar is set very low as far as mental work to make it fairly accessible to such players. (Playing a lot of DAC and Underlords helps a ton as well, they are really not the same game as this though, though they may appear that way at first glance.)

Dr. Video Games 0112 fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jul 10, 2019

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:56

M. Night Skymall: Mar 22, 2012

Syrinxx posted:

TFT is bad because the item rounds are worse than just RNG, they turn the game from "playing the odds" to "did you get randomly assfucked by receiving no items while other dude has 3 completed items they can put on their draven"

Underlords is definitely the superior game but maybe some QoL improvements to TFT will happen and it will be actually kind of fun at some point

They're evening out item RNG in 9.14 and adding a bunch of other QoL stuff supposedly, I think DPS meters and for sure actual stats for the champs besides health. I think Auto Chess is better than TFT, but I don't think Underlords is the best version of Auto Chess yet. The items have less RNG, yes, but they're boring and I don't like the lack of item stacking and the fact that they're transferable. Chess Rush is probably the best clone, but I guess it'll never get a PC release. Drodo/Epic's Auto Chess PC client will probably be good, and include the new synergies the other clones haven't bothered to implement yet. Underlords just depends on what they do with the actual Underlords to make it a unique game instead of an inferior copy of someone else's game.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 16:59

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Why is the Dota thread leaking so much lately.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 17:26

Addamere: Jan 3, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

im not ready for ap yasuo

# ? Jul 10, 2019 18:05

Elentor: Dec 14, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Okay so reading again on the ranked FAQ

quote:

Premade Ranked restrictions are a bit different for TFT. You can queue with up to five friends if you�re all Gold or lower. If anyone is Platinum or above, you�ll only be able to queue up as three. Check out the image below for the complete breakdown of who can queue with whom.

This is stupid for so many reasons. Let's think of a few:

* At least one person is guaranteed a win below Plat, so everyone else can throw the towels for that person.
* Body-block others in the shared draft because why not
* Leave the good item/champion in the shared draft for the person being fed. Even if you're all top 5 that's still a lot of choices for someone.

Things you can do with a duo, not even a trio:

* Have someone play econ and someone buy en mass everything they can, avail which three stars they can get you, and release you on the round of your choice at the time of your choice.
* Have someone look at what others are building and target-buy champions they might need to prevent them from climbing.

And things you can do even if your duo/trio are not feeding someone specifically:

* Instead of feeding someone, trade cards at specific moments
* Make separate builds that don't compete with each other.
* If someone has a build that can pose a hazard to you and you have a shot at winning, give up at a guaranteed #4 so that the other person can climb higher.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 18:09

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

You can't trade with other players though, and even selling something the other person wants only increases their chances of finding it by an extremely tiny amount because it's a large shared pool.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 18:23

Elentor: Dec 14, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

It's not such a tiny amount. It's large enough that finding the specific thresholds for optimizing the buying and selling of certain champions should be very easy to do in a game where each level changes the pool so much. With 5 people if everyone cannibalizes 1 star cards aggressively and you have two guaranteed 3 stars in a pool before you reach level 5 you can pretty much time it to increase the odds. The odds will always be a net positive in comparison to playing solo.

I'm busy at work right now but when I'm done here I should be able to write a simulation in 30 min or so to point out the benefits of each person and how much it increases the odds of you getting a 3 star. I think this is calculable by hand but doing the math for every case will take longer than writing a general simulation, run a few million iterations and see the results.

# ? Jul 10, 2019 18:53

kingcobweb: Apr 16, 2005

As someone who�s played competitive MTG for like 15 years, saying that TFT sucks because there�s no skill it�s just RNG is incredibly funny

# ? Jul 10, 2019 19:24

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 17:13

Sexpansion: Mar 22, 2003; DELETED

Elentor posted:

Okay so reading again on the ranked FAQ

This is stupid for so many reasons. Let's think of a few:

* At least one person is guaranteed a win below Plat, so everyone else can throw the towels for that person.
etc etc etc

I agree, I think this is really, really dumb. If you think wintrading in high elo League is bad...

# ? Jul 10, 2019 19:39

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