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CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




Agrikk posted:

They’re drawn that way because cars need tires and steering wheels.

FOR NOW

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The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Horseless carriages are serverless for the 19th century

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




The Iron Rose posted:

Horseless carriages are serverless for the 19th century

Headless apps horses

lament.cfg
Dec 28, 2006

we have such posts
to show you




Steering wheel that doesn’t fly off

https://www.facebook.com/NetflixIsAJoke/posts/575592602849022/

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

https://youtu.be/G3AfIvJBcGo


(2015. :sigh:)

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Sepist posted:

Welcome to the club. Someone told me I should be looking at kubernetes, ebpf, and cilium since a lot of my work will be cloud routing & security related.
Did you find something?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Agrikk posted:

He and I have the same haircut at least but I'm in better shape and so far have had better success keeping my marriage together.



Also: for everyone thinking about applying to a technical role at AWS (or anywhere, really), I think it goes without saying that you understand what's going on in this picture and what its strengths and its flaws are. Better yet, have built this environment. Yes, it is possible to build this environment for free on your laptop.



I definitely think it's time for a new post in the jobs thread. With all these questions about AWS, surely someone will let me give them a referral, get hired and get me my $3000 referral bonus. Right? :D

Hey, finally an upside to working at this hellhole with 25 year old software, 1-8 year old web plugins, documentation in half a dozen places, mainly poorly organized shared drives, and not nearly enough people to do escalations.

Umbreon
May 21, 2011

Agrikk posted:

You sound like you are on your way to a Cloud Support role, but your progression has some gaps.

When I’m evaluating a candidate for a role like a CSE or a TAM I am looking for well-roundedness. I want to see someone’s ability to speak to all of the tiers of an application stack (from subnetting and routing, to data tier and redundancy, to app servers and compute and scaling, to access and security).

Programming languages are handy, and Python is king around here, but I’ve gone this far without being able to code without ample help from google and w3schools.

As a CSE you’ll be taking customer cases on all sorts of issues across all 140+ services at AWS. While we don’t expect you to know all these services, we are looking for candidates who lean into not knowing stuff, are comfortable with not knowing stuff, and are curious about and are driven to learn more about the things they don’t know.

“Deals with ambiguity”
“[Hire and] develop the best”
“Learn and be curious”

Make these Amazon Leadership principles your guide to how to grow and prepare for the role because these are the standards you’ll be measured against.

the rubric at AWS is, in a nutshell, “has this candidate said anything that interests me or fascinates me or in any way makes me feel like they are better than more than half of the people I know currently in the role?”

But I am a notoriously hard grader. I won’t lower my standards for the sake of filling spots and have actually gotten a talking to about it.

By far the most fun I've had at my NOC jobs was any time I got to work with new or unfamiliar equipment and protocols and was given permission to just have at it. I love learning new stuff, especially when doing so let's me help co-workers/customers.

Would you have any recommendations on what to fill my progression gaps with for a CSE or TAM role?

Sepist
Dec 26, 2005

FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS

Gravy Boat 2k

Vulture Culture posted:

Did you find something?

I'm gonna be working for one of my clients remotely doing cloud network & security. I sent your guy a nice introductory email and he never replied

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Is this the same client that tried to cut your base salary by 40%?

Sepist
Dec 26, 2005

FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS

Gravy Boat 2k
Yea but they reverted to the original ask. They were playing hard ball

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!



DB is single point of failure, you fail.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

jaegerx posted:

DB is single point of failure, you fail.

quote:

Also: for everyone thinking about applying to a technical role at AWS (or anywhere, really), I think it goes without saying that you understand what's going on in this picture and what its strengths and its flaws are. Better yet, have built this environment. Yes, it is possible to build this environment for free on your laptop.


Trap sprung.

the database, the firewall, the load balancer and the router are all single points of failure

fordan
Mar 9, 2009

Clue: Zero

jaegerx posted:

DB is single point of failure, you fail.

Using actual DB servers vs a database SaaS on an AWS test, you fail.

(Or alternatively, not being completely "Serverless.")

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


Agrikk posted:

Trap sprung.

the database, the firewall, the load balancer and the router are all single points of failure

What are you talking about?! The DB is obviously Athena and the firewall is AWS WAF in front of an ALB.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

LochNessMonster posted:

What are you talking about?! The DB is obviously Athena and the firewall is AWS WAF in front of an ALB.

Athena isn't a DB? It's just SQL queries on S3.

now if we're architecting this on AWS use Aurora serverless or dynamoDB, or heck, just set up multi-az for RDS. Use security groups and nACLs for your firewall and WAF rules for your application, and an ALB is automatically highly available by itself.


That's the point of the graphic wrt AWS - every mainline AWS component you'd use in this architecture is tailor made to deliver high availability with a minimum of configuration necessary.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Sepist posted:

I'm gonna be working for one of my clients remotely doing cloud network & security. I sent your guy a nice introductory email and he never replied
That's super weird and not like Paul at all. Let me know next time you're considering reaching out and I'll do a proper intro

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


The Iron Rose posted:

Athena isn't a DB? It's just SQL queries on S3.

Customers will abuse the hell out of it in ways you never thought possible. :v:

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Shell tried to take away local Admin privileges for everybody in the company, including our team that does all the backend work. That decision was reversed for our team within an hour. :allears:

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

LochNessMonster posted:

Customers will abuse the hell out of it in ways you never thought possible. :v:

That's absolutely a defining characteristic of a database, so now you have me wondering :thunk:

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

LochNessMonster posted:

Customers will abuse the hell out of it in ways you never thought possible. :v:

Sure you can use it as a data platform but it's not a database by any reasonable definition. I admit to being curious for a reasonable usecase as a data layer for webservers though.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Agrikk posted:

Trap sprung.

the database, the firewall, the load balancer and the router are all single points of failure


fordan posted:

Using actual DB servers vs a database SaaS on an AWS test, you fail.

(Or alternatively, not being completely "Serverless.")

First answer gets you to senior TAM, second to Principal TAM? :v:

(Just to reiterate, I super appreciate your info here, Agrikk, and am at least a little considering applying as an SA)

Anything you can share about Professional Services? Being so hands-off the actual implementation would be my hangup.

Docjowles fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Jul 10, 2019

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Possibly getting an interview for a PowerShell dev job. I guess if they are interested it’s time to start cramming Powershell instead of AWS so I can fake it til I make it.

It would be $75K with what seems like good benefits. The commute would be long, but my new lease is up in 6 months so I could move closer, and the train goes within like half a mile of the office so I could be one of those train/bike commuting jerks.

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004

Just like Mama used to make it!
So I'm anticipating I'll need to start learning Google cloud. Azure and AWS are talked about here but how does it compare? From what I can tell, all 3 are more or less the same and are pretty easy to grasp if you already have a good background in networking, basic security, and troubleshooting.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Google cloud is surprisingly itty-bitty compared to the other two, FWIW.

TheFace
Oct 4, 2004

Fuck anyone that doesn't wanna be this beautiful

Bonzo posted:

So I'm anticipating I'll need to start learning Google cloud. Azure and AWS are talked about here but how does it compare? From what I can tell, all 3 are more or less the same and are pretty easy to grasp if you already have a good background in networking, basic security, and troubleshooting.

Is this for a specific job need or just because you want to learn "cloud"?

I only ask because not a ton of places that I've seen use Google Cloud, and if I'm not mistaken their market share is pretty low, so as a marketable skill Azure and AWS would likely be a better bet. Though I suppose if you get really good at any one of them it's really just a matter of learning the differences in offerings and skills translate well.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



How would you tell work/life balance in an interview? Work/life balance is the main complaint I’m seeing for this job I have a phone interview for tomorrow, and I have no interest in working a job that makes me do tons of overtime because I’m (actually legally qualified as) exempt.

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.

22 Eargesplitten posted:

How would you tell work/life balance in an interview? Work/life balance is the main complaint I’m seeing for this job I have a phone interview for tomorrow, and I have no interest in working a job that makes me do tons of overtime because I’m (actually legally qualified as) exempt.

"When was the last time you took an extended vacation" has usually been a good one for me. You can usually tell whether they're making up a good sounding answer on the fly or are answering honestly.

I had a list of some others that are good for this type of concern too, I'll try to dig them up.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





22 Eargesplitten posted:

How would you tell work/life balance in an interview? Work/life balance is the main complaint I’m seeing for this job I have a phone interview for tomorrow, and I have no interest in working a job that makes me do tons of overtime because I’m (actually legally qualified as) exempt.


You ask about on call schedules. Have they had many after hours incidents? What are their expectations on after hours work?

Just straight up ask what you want to know.

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004

Just like Mama used to make it!

TheFace posted:

Is this for a specific job need or just because you want to learn "cloud"?

I only ask because not a ton of places that I've seen use Google Cloud, and if I'm not mistaken their market share is pretty low, so as a marketable skill Azure and AWS would likely be a better bet. Though I suppose if you get really good at any one of them it's really just a matter of learning the differences in offerings and skills translate well.

It's for a job. I've been learning Azure and AWS but I'm seeing my company starting to partner with GC on some things so I thought I'd try it.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Yeah, I’m going to ask some simple questions but I want to make sure they can’t just lie about it and then expect me to just deal with it when they surprise me.

air-
Sep 24, 2007

Who will win the greatest battle of them all?

Piggybacking on that question, how do you navigate work/life balance when it's a company that is still in the stage where they're building out their SRE team/infrastructure and related processes? As in, I have a feeling asking about on call rotations/getting paged etc will get an answer where "it's still a work in progress" and the real question I am wondering is: how would I gauge if I'm walking into a dumpster fire?

Spring Heeled Jack
Feb 25, 2007

If you can read this you can read
Pretty good day, got a title change from good ol' 'Network Admin' to 'Cloud Security Analyst' and a 12% raise because I touch Azure now.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Spring Heeled Jack posted:

Pretty good day, got a title change from good ol' 'Network Admin' to 'Cloud Security Analyst' and a 12% raise because I touch Azure now.

Man I wish, I had to build out microsegmentation in Azure's NSGs and didn't get anything extra from it.

Navigating that nightmare deserves a decent raise. Congrats.

PancakeTransmission
May 27, 2007

You gotta improvise, Lisa: cloves, Tom Collins mix, frozen pie crust...


Plaster Town Cop

George H.W. oval office posted:

You ask about on call schedules. Have they had many after hours incidents? What are their expectations on after hours work?

Just straight up ask what you want to know.
Yeah I think this is important. Remember, the interview is for you too. Unless you want to start a job and quit in 3 weeks, ask the dealbreakers to save yourself some time.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Absolutely. I'm kind of ambivalent on this job at this point, which is why I'm not studying right now like I probably should be. I've only been at my current job a few months, I can't hop to another job and then immediately to another unless I have a reason like "they didn't pay me" or "The company is currently under indictment, I'm not at liberty to say any more."

Who knows, maybe it won't be that kind of situation, which is the only reason I'm doing the interview.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

22 Eargesplitten posted:

How would you tell work/life balance in an interview? Work/life balance is the main complaint I’m seeing for this job I have a phone interview for tomorrow, and I have no interest in working a job that makes me do tons of overtime because I’m (actually legally qualified as) exempt.

Look for wedding rings. When I interviewed for IBM Global Services many many years ago I noticed that no one was married, which had me asking about travel and other details and it was 90% travel. I backed out of the process very quickly after that.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Docjowles posted:

First answer gets you to senior TAM, second to Principal TAM? :v:

(Just to reiterate, I super appreciate your info here, Agrikk, and am at least a little considering applying as an SA)

Anything you can share about Professional Services? Being so hands-off the actual implementation would be my hangup.

We as TAMs (and SAs as well) are not allowed to touch customer code. Ever. We aren't even allowed to write code that can be used for customers. We can write "demo code" for "examples that we can give customers for further review."

This is part of the shared responsibility model that we use that protects both sides from liability (If my lovely code breaks your web site, that's bad. My lovely code is "demo code not suitable for prod environments.")

Under those rules we give code snippets all the time. But the ProServe guys have beefy E&O protections and create turnkey solutions for customers all the time. In fact, I've had customers with whom I've never interacted: They had a ProServe engagement and I ended up only dealing with AWS guys who were working the engagement on behalf of the customer. ProServe guys live on-site with customers and build stuff per customer specifications. It's a pretty neat gig if you like to travel.

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011

Spring Heeled Jack posted:

Pretty good day, got a title change from good ol' 'Network Admin' to 'Cloud Security Analyst' and a 12% raise because I touch Azure now.

So you're getting paid better to touch butts, good man :toot:

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Comradephate
Feb 28, 2009

College Slice

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Yeah, I’m going to ask some simple questions but I want to make sure they can’t just lie about it and then expect me to just deal with it when they surprise me.

They can definitely just lie to you. If you're legitimately worried that they might, does it really make sense to consider working for them?

Agrikk posted:

ProServe guys live on-site with customers and build stuff per customer specifications. It's a pretty neat gig if you like to travel.

One of my few professional regrets is that I didn't do this kind of gig and/or become a douchey :airquote: digital nomad :airquote: while I was single.

Comradephate fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Jul 11, 2019

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