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WitP2 is just WitP but now the Americans have to manage production and they've added the small arms carried by fishing boat crews so they can fire at subs. Supply is now more general and can be used by capturing forces! Unfortunately ammo for all weapons is now tracked separately and must be shipped with supply.
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Jul 8, 2019 14:41
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Finally!
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Jul 8, 2019 16:30
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Grumio posted:I misread this as WiTP2 and got my hopes up Ditto. Woodchip posted:Witp 2, now with more pilot training options! Still in. Plek posted:WitP2 is just WitP but now the Americans have to manage production and they've added the small arms carried by fishing boat crews so they can fire at subs. Supply is now more general and can be used by capturing forces! Unfortunately ammo for all weapons is now tracked separately and must be shipped with supply. Still. In.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:29
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WITP 2 also featuring tactical battles with no autoresolve for every encounter.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:40
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:WITP 2 also featuring tactical battles with no autoresolve for every encounter. bison-yes.gif
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Jul 8, 2019 18:47
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Gewehr 43 posted:Ditto. Indeed. Me too.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:03
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Sorry your transports only unloaded .30 carbine ammo, you will need to wait for the transport with the 30-06 rounds before your units can attack.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:05
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Each transport can only carry one type of ammo supplies at a time and need manual refit (takes about 12 clicks per ship getting a refit) and will loose its refit when it gets a prescripted bi-annually general refit. Food, water, morphine, bandages, scalpels and boots are now tracked as separate supplies and are dedicated to a specific division on creation. Other divisions can use these supplies, but they will get a 5% penalty to combined ops with the division they stole the supplies from. (this is only possible if they share an HQ). Bases have limited storage space for each type of supplies, but due to a bug, which will not be fixed, having any type of supply go over its limit will cause all types of supplies to decay at 6 times the originally intended rate. Landing ship, Tank cannot load tanks that are loaded with supplies due to a reference recursion error.
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Jul 8, 2019 21:10
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:WITP 2 also featuring
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Jul 8, 2019 21:21
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yessssssss give it all to me
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Jul 8, 2019 21:27
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you people are sick *fires up Battle Academy*
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Jul 8, 2019 21:45
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Each nation has a special food type for their troops in order for them to operate at peak efficiency. The Brits need tea, the Aussies vegemite, and Americans need cheeseburgers. The Japanese are able to subsist contently on rice and thus are exempt from this requirement.
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Jul 8, 2019 22:17
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WITW2, the first $99 wargame eligible for the Cacowards due to its innovative and realistic combat resolution system.
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Jul 8, 2019 22:22
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Troops need to get acclimatized to new environments before they can be relied upon to do any serious maneuvers or even preform adequately in battle. Acclimation is tracked but is hidden away in a submenu for each device symbolizing a squad of soldiers. Replacement troops also need acclimation, but have been abstracted into the pooled "wounded/out of action" tag for the various groups (this can of course lead to your game thinking you are suffering massive spikes of casualties whenever you receive batches of reinforcements, causing the politicians back home to freak out about your careless and incompetent leadership). The poorly displayed climate regions also affect decay rate of different types of foodstuff and will also affect the amount of various types of foodstuff a division will need to consume to stay at peak strength. Strength also decays if a division is not regularly put into "training/PT/lecture" mode, causing discipline and morale to decay as the troops loose their ability to tie shoelaces, make beds or fireman-carry wounded comrades through a maze of freshly dug latrines. This decay can become a permanent malus on marine divisions due to NCOs dying of anxiety attacks.
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Jul 8, 2019 22:33
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When a ship gets caught in a storm, the game downloads a suitable simulation based on the ship's location from the International Oceanic Data and Information Exchange, then feeds that and a detailed model of the ship into a fluid simulator to accurately determine which rivets/welds will fail and how this affects it's seaworthiness and buoyancy. Edit: For some strange reason, all German ships use Krupp's wildly overoptimistic calculations of the theoretical upper bound of tensile strength for all their components. Then a modder releases a Realism Pack that ups those by 20%. Asehujiko fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 23:07
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Ship positions on the map are representative of the ship’s reported position, so cloud cover or poor navigation training might cause them to be offset from their actual position.
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Jul 9, 2019 00:04
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FrozenVent posted:Ship positions on the map are representative of the ship’s reported position, so cloud cover or poor navigation training might cause them to be offset from their actual position. Ooooh i like this. Especially if you can figure out their true position through a couple of submenus that have been scattered through random places in the UI. Places like Industry planning -> current Industry -> Navy Industry -> Navy Industry Navigation equipment -> Current Navigation equipment -> relative position offset: destroyer class. and then you have to calculate it yourself from there after having referenced the weather conditions and expected weather conditions submenus located under the nearest base's enviromental intel submenu.
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Jul 9, 2019 11:43
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You have to click and drag the counters manually as though you're playing the physical version. Your cursor is simulated at all times and can accidentally knock them out of position.
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Jul 9, 2019 12:51
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:You have to click and drag the counters manually as though you're playing the physical version. Your cursor is simulated at all times and can accidentally knock them out of position. There's no menus, instead, you request information with a command line interface and a digital in-game staffer will bring it to you, but it'll take them a few hours and sometimes they'll get it wrong. And then manually update your counters as you see fit.
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Jul 9, 2019 13:42
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god im getting aroused
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Jul 9, 2019 14:08
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SerthVarnee posted:Ooooh i like this. Also, you need to route ships seasonally using admiralty weather planning charts unless you want them to be delayed in storms.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:53
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SerthVarnee posted:Ooooh i like this. I think WITP is desperately in need of (I know it would make the game take longer) at least 3 pulses a day. I have always found that the current system makes the combat wonky, particularly carrier combat. Also, the air model is great! I love it! Way more than I love the vaunted WITW model; however, by late war (around summer 1944) the model breaks and is not capable of handling massive aircraft strikes. Thus the Japanese player, for instance, can send 200 unescorted torpedo bombers against an Allied fleet covered by 800 cap fighters at the exact appropriate altitudes, and half of those torpedo bombers will get through. And of course, same goes for the ultimate American strategic bombing. I am also such a fan of the DC:B system, I think this should be added to almost every operational grog game. Especially in a game like WiTPAE where (in multiplayer) Japanese players often do wildly ahistorical things like “let’s invade the West Coast.” For that matter, so do Allied players who try and pull a Sir Robin and do ridiculous poo poo like abandon Singapore and the DEI. Things that would have been politically impossible for the Allies to do.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:51
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The two hundred planes thing hasn't been true for a long time. In a pbem Downfall+ I've put an eleven hundred plane strike onto the USN CV mass, about 800 CAP and had about forty break through to score no hits. Casualty rate was over 95%.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:25
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Saros posted:The two hundred planes thing hasn't been true for a long time. In a pbem Downfall+ I've put an eleven hundred plane strike onto the USN CV mass, about 800 CAP and had about forty break through to score no hits. Casualty rate was over 95%. Your were using which mods? Edit. Favorite gamey Japanese tactic, let’s invade and capture Los Angeles for one day, and thus completely eliminate all the American ships in the shipyards, including any reinforcement ships that would spawn there. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 18:27
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Honestly if the allied player lets you pull that off he deserves it.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:33
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Just the normal downfall stronger scenario, no mods.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:38
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Pharnakes posted:Honestly if the allied player lets you pull that off he deserves it. Maybe, but no matter what side I am playing my primary ‘joy’ from playing these games is being able to pretend I am re-fighting a war or battle, and let’s see if I could do it better than history. The whole notion that games like WiTPAE are the same as monopoly, and I just better exploit the rules so I can “win” in completely ahistorical/impossible ways is totally alien to me. I am not saying that there is a right or wrong way to play grog games, rather I am saying that I don’t want to play an opponent who is approaching a grog game as a game of checkers. Also, like I said, I just don’t get the fun in playing grog games like this. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 20:39
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Preach it, dogg.
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Jul 9, 2019 20:46
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If it doesn't simulate things well enough to make invading LA impossible, or at least incredibly difficult, is it truly a grog game? 
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Jul 9, 2019 21:39
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I checked steamcharts and people are actually playing Naval Action in numbers now so ima take a serious dip in.
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Jul 10, 2019 18:27
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We joke about the maddening complexity of WitP (all the suggestions were plausible), but it's born out of a love/appreciation for the game and its grand scale. That's not to say that there aren't lots of things to improve on! If it were up to you, what would WitP2 look like? I know there are major complaints with things like the ground combat model, but what changes would work?
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Jul 10, 2019 20:50
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Grumio posted:We joke about the maddening complexity of WitP (all the suggestions were plausible), but it's born out of a love/appreciation for the game and its grand scale. I would completely change the land combat, make each day at least 3 pulses so carrier combat is more realistic and less suicidal, I would adjust the surface combat model slightly, and I think something needs to be done to allow the Allied player to accelerate ships, but more importantly plane models. The last part because, again, from an historical perspective the Japanese getting late war fighters by the end of 1942 is ridiculous. This is doubly the case when the game mechanics preclude the Allies from actually being able to respond to the very early arrival of planes the Japanese had only barely thought up at the beginning of the war so early that basically eat the gently caress out of anything the Allied player can field in numbers until 1944.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:00
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I don't mind the air production model so much right now, since it's fiddly hard work and the Japanese need all the help they can get against a human Allied player anyways, but I agree that any WITP2 has to have a fleshed out Allied production system. And the Japanese system is weird, don't duplicate it. Maybe both sides could allocate research points or design teams in a Hearts of Iron style. Example: Jiro Hirokoshi and his Mitsubishi team don't waste time on the Jack and later Zero variants, maybe you get the A7M Sam sooner. More interesting and plausible than just skipping generations of aircraft through arbitrary "factory" points, but you'd suffer from lack of better Zeroes and Jacks. There need to be tradeoffs, basically and the whole production/research system would probably be better redesigned from the ground up with an interface that doesn't require external programs to understand what the hell you're doing.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:23
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Could be good or bad, who knows! https://store.steampowered.com/app/654890/Grand_Tactician_The_Civil_War_18611865/
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Jul 10, 2019 21:29
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WitP2: - Widescreen support - 3-D map (think google earth with hexes) to allow for a spherical map projection. Cocking all the land masses at an angle to simulate a spherical projection annoys me. - Ability to auto-stand-down squadrons if losses reach a certain threshold - Rework the pilot training program to reduce the tedium - Rework the task force assignment/mission assignment system altogether. Maybe start with the mission, then assign the ships and destination. Allow me to set pathing via clicks and drags. It takes 11 clicks to properly configure a single submarine patrol without waypoints in the current game. Bleh. - Adaptive AI instead of hard-coded scripts - 3 pulses per day (night/morning/evening) - - Working/meaningful land combat simulation - De-convolute the repair interface and its calculations - ctrl+ or shift+ clicking to select multiple items in menus - ctrl+f to search for a base, ship, unit, whatever That's all I've got right now. It's been a few months since I played it, so some of the more nuanced wounds have healed, but I'm sure there are more.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:41
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Alchenar posted:I checked steamcharts and people are actually playing Naval Action in numbers now so ima take a serious dip in. Please report how it goes. I was also surprised by the numbers and was thinking of reinstall.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:46
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Gewehr 43 posted:WitP2: - Remove industry from both sides - Institute Vic's Political Points game from DC:B - However many pulses a day you want, but a skill check requiring maximum of 2 sorties per day for naval aviation - Week long turns but run day by day My WitP concept is that the player is solely concerned with forming TF's and invasion fleets and sending them on missions. You are a strategic/operational level commander and play at that level. You don't micromanage. The game is about placing bets on where to position your forces and what missions to send them on. I say 1 week turns but they should include interrupt chances where you can lay Midway style ambushes where you wait for the enemy fleet to show up and get a chance to issue final orders to designated TF a day or two before the detected enemy arrive.
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Jul 10, 2019 22:44
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ZombieLenin posted:Maybe, but no matter what side I am playing my primary ‘joy’ from playing these games is being able to pretend I am re-fighting a war or battle, and let’s see if I could do it better than history. Has any WITP player ever actually done the LA invasion? I've only ever seen it proposed as theoretically possible, I don't think I've ever actually seen screenshots of it executed, especially against a human Allies player, and I'm not sure it's really possible. And I wouldn't really call the game out for it when it happens at best in one in a million games. Stuff like Fortress Palembang are way bigger issues from that perspective.
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Jul 10, 2019 23:31
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Washington invasions are commonplace.
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Jul 10, 2019 23:31
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Alchenar posted:- Remove industry from both sides Gary Grigsby's Pacific War is much closer to this ideal than WITP is, but the interface is even more obtuse and unwieldy and tedious.
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Jul 11, 2019 00:46
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