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Stairmaster posted:Washington invasions are commonplace. Yeah there's definitely an AAR or three somewhere on the Matrix forums where the IJN sails into the Puget Sound and leaves Seattle in flames, which is extra gimmicky because like 80% of all the American CVLs spawn there or something.
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Jul 11, 2019 02:46
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My dream for WitP2 is context-specific menus. You right click on a unit, a little menu comes up with possible orders, you select one and then the target hex(es), then maybe a little window comes up with some settings and you can just hit enter to accept. That plus some kind of operational planning, like being able to name an operation and then assign units and objectives, would be killer.
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Jul 11, 2019 04:45
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Trip report: Bought Naval Action, played for an hour and 45 mins then refunded it. Might potentially pick it up in the future if it's not like $60 AUD I love the Age of Sail, I crave a realistic age of sail game and was hoping Naval action had improved somewhat since I last tried it years ago. Granted, I've only ever experienced low level play with both this and Pirates of the burning sea. Buuuuut, I'm so sick of health bars. I desperately want an age of sail game that has a realistic damage model and flooding etc.
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Jul 11, 2019 07:08
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WITP2 chat HOW THE HELL HAVE NONE OF MENTIONED FIXING THE GROUND COMBAT. It's by far the worst thing about the game, and makes any invasion or attack pretty much pot luck. That +terrain bonus seems to count more than every other positive and negative in the game - no food, no ammo, your leaders are crying a ditch and the men haven't had a letter from home in three months - oh and your outnumbered ten to one? no problem, you have a hill, you'll hold them off for months!
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Jul 11, 2019 08:11
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Why fix it, when you can remove it entirely? When I think WITP, I think playing the Navy. Sure, ferrying troops places matters, but I just want to focus on my botes. The war botes. Some other schmuck can handle convoys.
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Jul 11, 2019 08:17
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I tried Naval action again last night. Game good, I think.1k + people online, and a really well done tutorial that skips you straight to a frigate. I'm not going to be in s first rate anytime soon, but do the tutorials and you'll have the rank for shallow pbs straight of the bat.
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Jul 11, 2019 09:58
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Abongination posted:Trip report: Naval Action does have those things, it's just hidden behind an abstraction of how solid the other ship's hull is. e: aiming for the waterline is a real skill move you can pull to cause the enemy to sink
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Jul 11, 2019 10:30
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Why fix it, when you can remove it entirely? When I think WITP, I think playing the Navy. Sure, ferrying troops places matters, but I just want to focus on my botes. The war botes. Some other schmuck can handle convoys. Yeah but the main problem is people tend to have expectations with levels of detail in simulations so you gotta have your extremely detailed tally of units that comes out to something not dissimilar to collecting odds ratios and DRM in a board game. Though unnecessary detail into bizarre gamey mechanics is very much the Grigsby MO. I'm waiting for an Empire of the Sun-esque take on the Pacific for the computer, but I think most pc designers don't have the chops for it.
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Jul 11, 2019 11:35
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Yeah the WitP designers had it right with "Well we could model the land war more, but every island campaign basically followed a similar pattern of frontal assaults until the island was cleared, and the war in China just didn't go anywhere". The Pacific War was not a war where land commanders made names for themselves except for if we are talking about Slim in Burma, which needs to be an operational game all of itself to have any hope of doing it justice.
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Jul 11, 2019 11:40
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Is it really War in the Pacific if you aren't tracking every marine's inventory? Just tracking the amount of gum each sailor is carrying isn't good enough, you have to do the ground troops.
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Jul 11, 2019 11:42
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Alchenar posted:Yeah the WitP designers had it right with "Well we could model the land war more, but every island campaign basically followed a similar pattern of frontal assaults until the island was cleared, and the war in China just didn't go anywhere". The real challenge a lot of Pacific games have with land combat is that they can't really lean on ready-made systems from the rest of wargames because they're made for large spaces with lots of hexes and that's where the fun of it comes from, in the pacific, most of the islands would be one hex- the system suffers a lot from readability issues in the theaters where you actually do move from land hex to land hex, particularly China. If you want to see the problems of trying to translate systems, even ones more willing to be gamey, SCWW2 expanded to the pacific and the land combat there is hosed, too, as the islands tend to just be two hexes. Though in that game trying to have naval units that traverse and control the map like corps really hurts it in trying to handle naval conflicts.
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Jul 11, 2019 11:46
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Just accept that the land game in the Pacific is entirely subordinate to the air game and naval games that let you move troops to where they need to go and keeping them supplied.
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Jul 11, 2019 12:40
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But if you don't control the ground war, then you risk the AI going off and doing something completely against the rest of your campaigning and you lose the war anyway. (There's a MacArthur joke to be made here, but I'll refrain.) In that sort of situation, it just becomes unfun for the gamer. The war in the Pacific was a concerted effort between naval, ground, and air forces and you can't really simulate it properly while only looking at two of the aspects.
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Jul 11, 2019 13:06
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From the perspective of "you're not supposed to have particularly fine control of the ground war, you're supposed to just throw 3:1 or better troops at anything you want to conquer, and the real meat is wrecking enemy logistics and maintaining numerical superiority", does WITP even succeed at conveying that?
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Jul 11, 2019 13:25
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Yes, if you ignore the continents.
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Jul 11, 2019 13:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:From the perspective of "you're not supposed to have particularly fine control of the ground war, you're supposed to just throw 3:1 or better troops at anything you want to conquer, and the real meat is wrecking enemy logistics and maintaining numerical superiority", does WITP even succeed at conveying that? If you are playing against a human, sure. Against the AI lol no they turned off most of the logistics requirements for it because it can't handle it.
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Jul 11, 2019 13:42
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Sounds like they should just have essentially off-map boxes for the various islands/land areas that you have to deliver troops to, and then some kind of progress on capturing each locale based on the number of troops each side has in the box. Maybe some funkiness with special troop types (i.e., like marines vs army) if you want to have a little wrinkle, but otherwise abstract the maneuver/attack portions. But lol at that happening. "Focus? in my wargame?"
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Jul 11, 2019 14:07
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Abstraction appears anathema to computer wargames. No, just because we have the computational power to do so, does not mean we have to simulate the firing of every rifle on the Eastern Front, Grigsby.
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Jul 11, 2019 14:22
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Actually, I think you'll find we do. We should be able to simulate everything a-la Ultimate Warrior
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Jul 11, 2019 14:26
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Grey Hunter posted:WITP2 chat I did.
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Jul 11, 2019 14:33
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Actually, I think you'll find we do. The "simulation" done by Deadliest Warrior was actually created by Slytherine Studios lol.
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Jul 11, 2019 14:34
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ZombieLenin posted:I did. So did I.
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Jul 11, 2019 14:55
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:The "simulation" done by Deadliest Warrior was actually created by Slytherine Studios lol. That explains a hell of a lot.
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Jul 11, 2019 16:44
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Alchenar posted:Yeah the WitP designers had it right with "Well we could model the land war more, but every island campaign basically followed a similar pattern of frontal assaults until the island was cleared, and the war in China just didn't go anywhere". I actually think when WiTP was being designed they had a lot more planned in terms of ground combat, and in particular supply tracing, road construction (let’s simulate the Burma road!), and mechanics built around HQs. At least that’s what I remember reading. In practice they ended up abandoning a bunch of it, while leaving other parts only partially implemented because, as is always the case in video games, they decided they had scope overreach (aka they wanted to publish and sell the game). And of course, this was never gotten back to. In fact, the land combat model is so hosed up that, besides some edits on positions, names, and addition of smaller construction units, the modding community has not even wanted to touch it. Incidentally, I hinted at this before, but the game economy is completely hosed. Particularly because the Japanese player is completely incentivized—and given the ability to—fast forward production of really advanced airframes, while the allied player has zero ways to respond (though some mods have tried to address this). Similarly, while I get that Japan, Germany, and Italy were at war with 2/3rds of the industrial capacity of the Earth, having infinite supply generate in basically every major North American port is kind of bullshit.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:11
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grognards horrified to discover world war 2 lacked good game design
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Jul 11, 2019 18:50
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Squad Leader is the best game nobody played
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Jul 11, 2019 19:08
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Field of Glory: Empires is out! For 40 US clams.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:42
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Clearly the best way to solve the ground war abstraction issue is to divide all hexes further into 8 smaller hexes, allowing for a multi-hex fight on every atoll.
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Jul 12, 2019 09:21
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Squiggle posted:Field of Glory: Empires is out! For 40 US clams. The battles look cool but the strategic layer looks very much like a poor mans Total war / Imperator. Any opinions?
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Jul 12, 2019 10:03
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fuf posted:The battles look cool but the strategic layer looks very much like a poor mans Total war / Imperator. Any opinions? The strategic layer is generally stronger than Total War's, but the one big weakness is the diplomacy.
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Jul 12, 2019 11:10
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fuf posted:The battles look cool but the strategic layer looks very much like a poor mans Total war / Imperator. Any opinions? Poor man's Total War/Paradox Game is what AGEOD does. Normally I'd laugh and say stay away, but they've actually ditched their old engine so I don't know the game might be alright. The only hope AGEOD have of ever producing a game worth playing is to hitch hard onto the coattails of an actually good developer, so they're on the right track at least.
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Jul 12, 2019 11:12
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Nuramor posted:Clearly the best way to solve the ground war abstraction issue is to divide all hexes further into 8 smaller hexes, allowing for a multi-hex fight on every atoll. 
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Jul 12, 2019 13:37
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it is 100% better than imperator. that game was dog poo poo
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Jul 12, 2019 13:41
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Also if you're looking for an OPM to start with, Athens is probably the easiest: Athens is a massively developed region, the objectives generally involve taking pretty good regions themselves and once you get enough greek regions to get the Greek province, it's pretty easy to build up tons of troops. Being able to get a lot of money and culture without having to do a ton of painting on the map really helps you stay high in the culture/decadence standings(this is a huge problem for barbarian tribes) and you can kinda do what you like.
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Jul 12, 2019 14:01
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dtkozl posted:it is 100% better than imperator. that game was dog poo poo I've been playing the 1.2 beta and it's good now.
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Jul 12, 2019 15:26
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Forgot to mention that it's only $30 if you already own Field of Glory 2, but you have to choose the "Master Edition" pack (which is normally Empires + FoG2) to get it.fuf posted:The battles look cool but the strategic layer looks very much like a poor mans Total war / Imperator. Any opinions? Grognard's total war, yeah. The Paradox comparison isn't really apt because this is turn based and we-go. Each turn is a year, so you can move armies through multiple provinces in a turn and wind up in multiple fights. Unless you import a battle into Field of Glory 2 to play personally, the combat is pretty Paradoxy -- dice rolls with modifiers for terrain, leader effects, and having supporting skirmisher units for your front line, and "combat width/frontage" is a factor. I think the strategic layer is a bit more complex than the Total Wars, as trading for things like copper or iron and managing trade goods seems to be more involved. The heart of the game is balancing your growing cosmopolitan culture against decadence brought on by overexpansion, lovely leaders, or things like gambling dens. Rapid expansion will gently caress up your internal politics as much as draw the hate of neighbors. It's a novel approach that I admit I still don't fully understand the workings of, but that's maybe more on me for trying to learn a grog grand strategy game while high. Imperator has personal politics, which is cool. This is much more focused on army management, building/empire planning, and careful expansion. Alchenar posted:Poor man's Total War/Paradox Game is what AGEOD does. Normally I'd laugh and say stay away, but they've actually ditched their old engine so I don't know the game might be alright. Engine seems good, actually. Surprisingly so. If I hadn't known beforehand, finding out ageod was involved would've been a genuine shock.
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Jul 12, 2019 17:13
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Imperators personal politics are an utter half baked joke though, and one of the many core reasons that the game is the mess it is.
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Jul 12, 2019 17:25
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careful what you wish for -- don't push gary too hard or you'll end up with asl integration and you'll need to pull up a geomorphic "battle map" to play through the operation every time you want to claim some atoll
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Jul 12, 2019 17:34
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I got too aggressive too fast my first game and got dogpiled from up and down the boot, so I restarted and tried to take it a little slower and babying my Culture-to-Decadence ratio just enough to keep from collapsing. I left Samnium alone long enough for them to become a pain in the rear end, but finally brought them into the fold just a few years past historical. Unfortunately Carthage swept Syracuse aside and took Bruttium before I could consolidate the south, so I've only been able to form the province of Italia Superior. But the more deliberate early pace kept all of my legions alive long enough for them to become an expert force, which made taking Samnium and Tarentum muuuch easier. My empire is stable and I'm sitting at slightly-better-than-historical borders at the moment, so I'll need to slow down for a bit and get some development going in these new regions before I try to go gently caress up what's left of the Senones and Boii. Carthage is also, surely, about to become a problem. Honestly, I'm...given that this was AGEOD, actually shocked -- this fuckin owns.
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Jul 13, 2019 15:53
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the secret is that ageod has always owned
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Jul 13, 2019 16:01
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