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Comradephate posted:They can definitely just lie to you. If you're legitimately worried that they might, does it really make sense to consider working for them? I mean that I want to make sure something will feel off if they’re lying. And as far as do I want to work for them? I don’t trust any company, but I need someone to pay me. Should I just be open and say that their Glassdoor profile has a bunch of reviews talking about excessive overtime / lack of work-life balance, and that I’m concerned about that because while I have no problem with overtime if it’s needed, I do have a problem with it if it’s because of understaffing or poorly managed deadlines? Would that only knock me out of contention if it’s a place I don’t want to work anyway or would that just make me sound like an rear end in a top hat?
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Jul 11, 2019 15:17
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digital nomad 
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Would that only knock me out of contention if it's a place I don't want to work anyway or would that just make me sound like an rear end in a top hat? The former. I expect candidates to ask me about life/work balance, because it's an important thing to understand about a job. If they get put off by you asking (politely!) about the working hours, on-call schedule, and how often people take vacation, it is probably because they expect to grind you up. If you're joining a very early stage start-up and the company lives or dies by your sweat and blood, you should reasonably expect to work a huge number of hours. In all other situations, it is reasonable of you to want to work a reasonable number of hours, I think. I would suggest asking some other questions first, though. mind-game them into thinking that the first/only thing on your mind is something besides "how much time can I spend NOT here?" (even though that's a reasonable thing to have on your mind) E: general interview tip, actually: if you can come up with a kind of odd-ball question (that you actually care about) to ask first, that will throw them out of autopilot and probably get you more interesting answers. When candidates ask me "what do you like about working here?" "what's the on-call schedule like?" "how long have you been at the company?" "what's your day like?" the answers are just rote memorization at this point, because I get asked those quesitons so frequently and the answer doesn't change much. Comradephate fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 15:26
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I'm working for a company that has a bad reputation for picking up college graduates who don't understand what work life balance is, and then pressuring them into 60 hour weeks. It was pretty concerning for me as I have kids and am not sacrificing time with them for a job. I asked everybody I spoke to about work life balance in different ways to see if I could build a bigger picture or catch them lying. The division I joined is more concerned with good work life balances, the interview answers were very straightforward, and I'm generally happy here. I worked one month of overtime so far (53ish hours a week) and when I told my boss the following month that I was cutting my hours back, he was supportive. Don't let lovely online reviews spook you from the job, but address it directly during the interview. For me, the answer of "yeah those reviews are true for some roles, but ours isn't the same because of x y z" was good enough.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:41
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Sepist posted:Yea but they reverted to the original ask. They were playing hard ball This is not how you play hard ball and I'd be wary working for a company so bad at business that they can't negotiate a salary properly. Is this company run by Donald Trump?
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Jul 11, 2019 15:51
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Comradephate posted:One of my few professional regrets is that I didn't do this kind of gig and/or become a douchey I got a job like this right after my divorce was finalized. It took me about 2 months to end up back in a long-term relationship. I think I'm just bad at being a tech bro.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:53
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KillHour posted:This is not how you play hard ball and I'd be wary working for a company so bad at business that they can't negotiate a salary properly. Is this company run by Donald Trump? The CISO who negotiated with me (and will be my direct boss) is younger than me and I'm not an old fart, he probably just sucks at it. I'm really not offended by it. They countered, I said thanks but no thanks, and they caved. It's still a great opportunity to learn kubernetes & istio and put my mark on some technology that's pretty cool, then take that somewhere else if poo poo sucks.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:57
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How do you get to be a C level and suck at that kind of thing? That's the whole point. More importantly, how do I take that guy's job?
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Jul 11, 2019 16:03
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Sepist posted:The CISO who negotiated with me (and will be my direct boss) is younger than me and I'm not an old fart, he probably just sucks at it. I'm really not offended by it. They countered, I said thanks but no thanks, and they caved. It's still a great opportunity to learn kubernetes & istio and put my mark on some technology that's pretty cool, then take that somewhere else if poo poo sucks. Someone countering by 50% is pretty extreme and would definitely make me say no even if they came back to what I requested. Something there is extremely dysfunctional and is going to lead to drama later. What you said with being ready to leave if need be is reasonable and I wish I could be that way. I would have taken it personally and stonewalled them.
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Jul 11, 2019 16:05
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It's not about taking it personally, it's about thinking "Holy poo poo this guy doesn't respect me. Why would I want him as my boss?"
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Jul 11, 2019 16:08
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They didnt offer 50% less, that 50% was relevant to my current income which they dont know that number
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Jul 11, 2019 16:12
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Hey, I'm glad you got what you asked for. Just don't be surprised when they don't stop playing "hard ball" (trying to dick you over) just because you work for them.
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Jul 11, 2019 16:15
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Agrikk posted:Look for wedding rings. When I interviewed for IBM Global Services many many years ago I noticed that no one was married, which had me asking about travel and other details and it was 90% travel. I backed out of the process very quickly after that. International Broken Marriages was the nick name I heard.
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Jul 11, 2019 17:38
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Agrikk posted:Look for wedding rings. When I interviewed for IBM Global Services many many years ago I noticed that no one was married, which had me asking about travel and other details and it was 90% travel. I backed out of the process very quickly after that. That's....a really good hint. Interesting. I'm in my first public sector job right now, and there are WAY more people married with families than any job I've had in tech before. Never consciously thought about that before!
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Jul 11, 2019 17:45
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That is a good hint. This is a phone interview (assuming they don’t just ghost me like it seems they’re doing), so that would have to wait for the in-person interview. I know there are a few Phoenix goons in here, what’s the market rate like for an ERP/SQL guy with ~3 years experience? I was contacted by a recruiter for a place that’s offering relocation and says they’re willing to go above the market rate, so they must be desperate. I’m not sure if I should be leaving the only state I’ve ever lived in when I’m getting divorced, but I’ll listen to what they have to say at least.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:31
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22 Eargesplitten posted:That is a good hint. This is a phone interview (assuming they don’t just ghost me like it seems they’re doing), so that would have to wait for the in-person interview. Nothing wrong with cutting loose bro. Wish I had the balls to do the same. Getting progressively more tired of where I'm working now. I applied for some jobs and put my CV up and I've gotten a bunch of phone calls from recruiters, but the moment I tell them I have a 2 month notice period they hang up the call. One of them pretty much laughed when I told them how much I was making at the moment 
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Jul 11, 2019 18:42
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Well, the issue is more being a 14+ hour drive from everyone I know. I’m definitely looking for a new job, the question is if the lower CoL combined with high pay would make up for it.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:51
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I know there are a few Phoenix goons in here, what’s the market rate like for an ERP/SQL guy with ~3 years experience? I was contacted by a recruiter for a place that’s offering relocation and says they’re willing to go above the market rate, so they must be desperate. It's going to vary like crazy based on the company you get in with. I'd guess 65-70k would be the lowest you'll see for an ERP admin with SQL skills, but it'll only go up from there if you get in with a company that is in more than just Phoenix (read larger business).Might be hard to get in some of the bigger (higher paying) places with only 3 years experience though. Mind you this is a guess as my skillset and job responsibilities are wildly different. There's a lot of mid size business here too that need less specialized people (more jack of all trades) and you could potentially get paid more if you have other skills outside of your specialization. Cost of living is low in Phoenix (though it is rising, bought my house for 212k 3 years ago and just had it appraised at 280k, pretty big jump in 3 years). Rent prices seem to be rising faster than actual property costs, so buying something might make sense if you can. TheFace fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 19:02
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Interesting. I’ll look into it further assuming they’re still interested even though the majority of my experience was with a non-Dynamics ERP system. If I could get 80+ with a lower CoL than CO I would definitely consider it. Even though it would probably be a year or two before I could responsibly buy a house. A couple flights back to CO every year to visit wouldn’t cut into that too badly.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:26
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22 Eargesplitten posted:If I could get 80+ with a lower CoL than CO I would definitely consider it. Even though it would probably be a year or two before I could responsibly buy a house. A couple flights back to CO every year to visit wouldn’t cut into that too badly. Flights from PHX to DEN on Southwest are crazy cheap if you catch the right deal. I've done 130 round trip and I know they run cheaper sometimes.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:03
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TheFace posted:Flights from PHX to DEN on Southwest are crazy cheap if you catch the right deal. I've done 130 round trip and I know they run cheaper sometimes.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:25
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I’m not sure if I should be leaving the only state I’ve ever lived in when I’m getting divorced, but I’ll listen to what they have to say at least. Not sure I would go with Phoenix, though.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:50
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Phoenix has been described as a city that is a monument to Man's arrogance of heat, and nobody can say they're wrong.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:55
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Phoenix isn't a bad city, but I moved away 13 years ago and I don't miss it.
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Jul 11, 2019 20:56
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I don't know what it is about security system vendors, but gently caress the entire lot of them. Johnson Controls, Siemens, loving split pine tech, gently caress off. They were putting in new badge swipes for a building that we just spent about 80k completely re-cabling in cat6 and they pull this loving bullshit.  On top of all that, they put loving zip ties around my cable bundles instead of using the velcro. Who in their right loving mind thinks this is anything CLOSE to acceptable work. I'm about lose my poo poo.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:08
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I was convinced that Extreme had shitcanned Enterasys
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Jul 11, 2019 21:10
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Thanks Ants posted:I was convinced that Extreme had shitcanned Enterasys They're in the process of it. They kept the policy bits, but they're EOL'ing pretty much everything we got now. I got a room full of x460 G2's and 690's to replace them with.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:12
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Farking Bastage posted:I don't know what it is about security system vendors, but gently caress the entire lot of them. Johnson Controls, Siemens, loving split pine tech, gently caress off. They were putting in new badge swipes for a building that we just spent about 80k completely re-cabling in cat6 and they pull this loving bullshit. I don't know whose cables are whose but I am the 12 ft patch cables connecting ports 12 inches away.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:13
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Sickening posted:I don't know whose cables are whose but I am the 12 ft patch cables connecting ports 12 inches away. My vendor did that unfortunately. since we paid them to do that part, it had been decreed unsound for me to tear them all out and re-do.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:17
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skipdogg posted:Phoenix isn't a bad city, but I moved away 13 years ago and I don't miss it.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:24
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DelphiAegis posted:Phoenix has been described as a city that is a monument to Man's arrogance of heat, and nobody can say they're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYt0SDnrBE
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Jul 11, 2019 21:27
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I used a 5 meter OM4 multimode cable to patch one end of a single mode run that was less than a meter away so I'm also an rear end in a top hat (they forgot to ship the correct patches)
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Jul 11, 2019 21:28
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Farking Bastage posted:My vendor did that unfortunately. since we paid them to do that part, it had been decreed unsound for me to tear them all out and re-do. Can't you tell the vendor "That's poo poo I'm not paying for it until you do it properly". Or did some goober sign off without looking at it or getting someone who knows what the gently caress to look at it.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:54
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Thanatosian posted:If there are no kids involved, seems like it would be a great time to move. Fur kids  More seriously my concern is that I’ve been struggling emotionally and moving to somewhere that everyone is a stranger might make me even more isolated and alienated and depressed. I had no interest in moving to AZ at all, but for the right price I might do it temporarily. I was planning on moving somewhere cheaper in about a year or so when my dad and the last couple friends I have in the area have moved, since I will only have one person and a failed marriage in the area.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:56
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Jul 11, 2019 22:00
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Don't go to Phoenix if you're having emotional issues. It's a massive city. Stay close to family or good friends you can lean on for now. No amount of money is worth being miserable and unhappy. That being said, it is big enough if you're into a certain scene it should be easy to make friends. The Metro area is so big there's something for everyone there.
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Jul 11, 2019 22:05
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Can't you tell the vendor "That's poo poo I'm not paying for it until you do it properly". Or did some goober sign off without looking at it or getting someone who knows what the gently caress to look at it. I have stopped allowing them to do patch cables going forward and I do them all myself now. I get that modular switches are a real pain in the rear end to cable manage, but come the gently caress on. The linecards are 24 ports. The 48 port panels are broken off into 6 port sections. Just bundle them in sections indexed by length FFS. Anyhoo, those K10's are being EOL'ed to were going to stacked X460G2's and I'll be making them put 2u cable managers in between each panel from now on.
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Jul 11, 2019 23:39
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Farking Bastage posted:I don't know what it is about security system vendors, but gently caress the entire lot of them. Johnson Controls, Siemens, loving split pine tech, gently caress off. They were putting in new badge swipes for a building that we just spent about 80k completely re-cabling in cat6 and they pull this loving bullshit. All of those vendors are dogshit at that stuff. I strongly, strongly prefer not to let them run their own cables and have the proper LV contractor on the job run their lines for them. They aren't just terrible at following specs, they don't understand specs. They don't understand what kind of cables to run -- I've caught them running general-rate cable where code requires plenum-rate, I've caught them running indoor-rate cable outdoors -- they don't understand how or why to punch down on a patch panel, none of it. I've had them tell me they don't have a punch set. They definitely don't have cable certifiers and aren't familiar with the concept. They won't label their cables, or if they do they will literally stick the cable through a sheet of paper and write their company's name on the paper. I think they are an industry that operated in the analog world for a long time and are being dragged kicking and screaming into the world of data cabling. Their people are either older and not familiar with standard installation practices, or were taught by those people. The only way to get around it, other than prearranging to have their cables run for them by somebody competent, is to refuse to accept the work and refuse to pay for it until it's done properly. It's best if you can get to them before they start pulling their cables, but honestly you can tell them in advance exactly what to watch out for and more than half the time they still won't do it right.
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Jul 12, 2019 00:34
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skipdogg posted:Don't go to Phoenix if you're having emotional issues. It's a massive city. Stay close to family or good friends you can lean on for now. No amount of money is worth being miserable and unhappy. Yeah, not really into any scene tbh. I’m terrible at making friends, I’ve made one lasting friend since leaving school, not including my ex-wife. Part of why I was planning on moving in a year or so is that my dad is going to be moving and the one friend still in the area will be moving. So it will literally just be my brother and my ex’s family I know in the area. Not enough to make a difference. Maybe I’ll be better off by then, who knows?
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Jul 12, 2019 01:26
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Finding a scene could be good for your mental health, too. I was in a not-dissimilar situation a couple years back (alone in a city where I knew nobody), and now I'm a little sad at the prospect of leaving to do it all over again. I had a good solid day of interviews today, and a first-round interview on Friday and Monday at two different companies. I'm ready to be done, but that just means moving begins, and I feel like I need a vacation from this unexpected, mandatory "vacation" I've been on.
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Jul 12, 2019 03:33
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Jul 12, 2019 03:43
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