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FrangibleCover posted:The mark of a true communist is not being a fan of any other kind of communist. It was interesting to learn about Marx and Bakunin both rejecting existing concepts of governance and refusing to acknowledge the need for organizational structure, kinda expecting whatever future revolution that came would be able to of its own accord get together a big huggy bunch, only for The International to constantly be at eachother's throats and split over political differences, partially from the ambiguity of their organizational structure. Really seemed to forecast how future communist groups would go. Many of the future best and most useful things to come out of leftist or labor movements wound up being weird side things that Marx wasn't much concerned with, or even ashamed of from how they functioned within already extant forms of political organization without a big flashy violent revolution or a wacky Hegelian synthesis into something entirely new and unexpected.
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Jul 12, 2019 19:51
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zoux posted:It's from 1898 so depending on what month it was released in could be post or pre-Spanish-American War. Those lads sure don't look like they preparing to oust the perfidious Spaniard though. And the one guy looks to be clipping through his horse.
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Jul 12, 2019 19:59
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Phanatic posted:And the one guy looks to be clipping through his horse. Military use of cheat codes was one of the driving forces behind the revisions of the first Geneva Convention in 1906. Didn't stop the USSR from using them to spam division after division in WWII even though it was obvious there weren't that many Russians in the whole world.
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Jul 12, 2019 20:22
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The battle scene at the end of Passchendale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUox_hQAih8
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Jul 12, 2019 20:41
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Pentagon wars. The whole movie.
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Jul 12, 2019 20:50
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Solaris 2.0 posted:What are the most accurate military scenes you have seen in film? 
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Jul 12, 2019 20:51
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loving cocksucker still sticky with gore from the comstock.
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Jul 12, 2019 20:53
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Double post because my dumb joke appears to have broke the thread. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
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Jul 12, 2019 20:54
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My military service resembled a sad pile of discarded b-roll
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Jul 12, 2019 20:56
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Hmm, most of these criticisms are mistakes, no doubt. Allying with Hitler was kind of forced upon Stalin though, he actively tried to secure alliances with Great Britain and France before he made that non-aggression pact, and that was just an attempt to buy time as he rapidly modernized the army. I've heard theories that the reason the initial Barbarossa invasion was so devastating was because the Red Army was poised to attack itself, so many army units were marshaling their forces for an attack that they were ill-fated and ill-placed to defend when the invasion occurred. If I had to guess a reason for Stalin's shocked and slow response to the initial invasion, it may be because he figured that with the Greeks courageously delaying the start-date, it was possible that Germany would have to delay the invasion another year because there wasn't enough campaigning time before winter. Of course, Hitler was planning on invading the U.K with river barges, so it's not like planning on Hitler acting rationally was a brilliant strategy. As an aside, I wouldn't call myself a Stalinist. All communists have something to add to the immortal science, and many so-called grand theories were merely intended to be one countries' plan to establish communism, and not a universal plan. If I had to guess my favourite communist, it'd probably be Thomas Sankara. I only attempt to defend Stalin as an attempt to weaken one of the most popular methods for hurting communism, and because the majority of the more recent communist leaders who were worth anything do not consider As for the purges, while it definitely could be argued that they were cast with too wide a net, it does seem like many officers were not killed, but imprisoned, and were freed to fight the Fascist invaders. As for the need for them at all, you only have to look at the history of Allende or Sankara to see what happens when you try to hard to appear magnanimous. And lastly, liberals love bringing up that Stalin argued against the Socialists in Germany, but it should never be forgotten that those Socialists betrayed the world socialist movement by enthusiastically voting in support of the first world war, and the few principled men and women who stood against that and argued for peace were executed by those same Socialists when they seized power in the heady days that ended the war. It's a matter of perspective, and I never argued that Stalin was beyond reproach. I just think he made the decisions he did with the information he had in front of him, and he was smart enough to defer to military leaders who showed skill in matters of strategy (a major difference between him and Hitler, which I should point out has had multiple people comparing them as equivalents, as if someone who practiced a genocide during a losing total war, and someone who made some mistakes in organising a relief effort against a famine are equivalent. Lastly, I have a quote from another scholar you may be quick to dismiss as a Stalinist plant, regarding the "show trials". "Some guy" posted:By the way, there are increasing signs that the Russian trials are not faked, but that there is a plot among those who look upon Stalin as a stupid reactionary who has betrayed the ideas of the revolution. Though we find it difficult to imagine this kind of internal thing, those who know Russia best are all more or less of the same opinion. I was firmly convinced to begin with that it was a case of a dictator's despotic acts, based on lies and deception, but this was a delusion.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:05
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Solaris 2.0 posted:
lol @ the romantic, triumphant music as the slaver army forms up in this clip, and then the menacing, Imperial March-like music when the Union army starts bombarding them with artillery
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Jul 12, 2019 21:07
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brugroffil posted:lol @ the romantic, triumphant music as the slaver army forms up in this clip, and then the menacing, Imperial March-like music when the Union army starts bombarding them with artillery Yea...like I said the movie has serious pro-confederacy issues. I still enjoy the Pickets charge sequence tho.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:09
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ignoring all the other poo poo in AC's post, Stalin did not defer to the military in matters of strategy until relatively late in the war.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:10
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ignoring all the other poo poo in AC's post, Stalin did not defer to the military in matters of strategy until relatively late in the war. 43 is when he started to wise up.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:15
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Intellectually, I remembered that this show existed, but it had somehow fused in my brain with Coach so that, Mandela effect style, I cannot reconcile that Craig T Nelson is not in this image
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Jul 12, 2019 21:16
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Also the whole "Icebreaker" theory of a Soviet attack has been pretty thoroughly debunked. That said I do recall reading somewhere that official Soviet doctrine at the time called for an immediate counterattack onto polish soil. Can someone who knows more than me about Red army doctrine comment?
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Jul 12, 2019 21:21
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Epicurius posted:5. Not being incredibly brutal to minority ethnicities thereby making hate your government and tempting them towards collaboration. I had to read that last point twice before I said "oh, Marxists" and then move on Mostly for HEYGUNS but anybody else feel free to comment: was Pappataci fever a big deal for your dudes
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Jul 12, 2019 21:21
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Yea...like I said the movie has serious pro-confederacy issues. that scene is cool as poo poo because a bunch of secesh get hosed up those guys are way too fat though
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Jul 12, 2019 21:22
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Cyrano4747 posted:loving cocksucker still sticky with gore from the comstock. I GET THE REFRENCE
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Jul 12, 2019 21:23
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Yea...like I said the movie has serious pro-confederacy issues. Some of the dudes in the clip look like they're carrying bedrolls and other assorted items. Would that be common for soldiers marching into a direct assault like that? Ammo, powder, maybe a canteen, sure, but it seemed like they were decked out with everything they had.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:28
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Cyrano4747 posted:Pentagon wars. This but Down Periscope.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:30
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Ardent Communist posted:the immortal science No
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Jul 12, 2019 21:36
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Was the currency redecimalized or replaced with a New Ruble at some point? The first Soviet Ruble was a direct continuation of the Imperial Ruble already in use at the revolution, just from 1919 or so it had different names on it. The second Soviet Ruble was only in use from January 1, 1922 to December 31, 1922. On January 1st, it replaced the existing ruble at a rate of 1:10,000. The third Soviet Ruble was in use from January 1, 1923 to March 6, 1924, replacing the second at 1:100. The fourth Soviet Ruble was in use from March 7, 1924 – 1947, replacing the third at 1:50,000. So between the revolution and Stalin's last major change to the ruble before the war, approximately 5,010,000 rubles in pre-war money became worth 1 ruble in the new money that would last past WWII. Of course, the ruble was already in pretty bad shape by the early stages of WWI, so that's not quite as dramatic as it first looks, and it was intentional that the notional value of the ruble at the 4th soviet redenomination was quite high - it was intended to be put against a much larger value of gold for international trade than the ruble had been for quite some time. This mid-1919 Saturday Evening Post article has some writing on the situation of the ruble in early 1919, page 38 of the issue if the link's hosed up as Google Books links often are: https://books.google.com/books?id=-...%201918&f=false fishmech fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 21:37
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The Immortal Science of Winging It Oh gently caress Oh gently caress What Now
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Jul 12, 2019 21:37
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Ferrosol posted:Also the whole "Icebreaker" theory of a Soviet attack has been pretty thoroughly debunked. That said I do recall reading somewhere that official Soviet doctrine at the time called for an immediate counterattack onto polish soil. Can someone who knows more than me about Red army doctrine comment? Soviet/Russian military doctrine has always taught that defence starts at the border and goes forward, that it is always preferable to fight on enemy territory than home territory. It's a huge conceptual break with the West that's driving a lot of tension in Europe today - for Russia a border with NATO represents the possibility of having to fight on home soil and thus represents a critical national security failure. That's why Ukraine cannot ever be allowed to join NATO. And from that particular perspective the analysis is correct - a NATO that bordered Russia along the Baltics, Ukraine and say, Georgia would have so much freedom of manoeuvre that a defence of Russia would be untenable. It was absolutely Soviet intent to fight Germany on Polish rather than Russian soil - that's why they were there in the first place! In the immediate sense the Soviets knew that they needed to establish an echeloned defence and that's what they spent all of 1941 trying to develop. But it was always in mind that as soon as the Red Army could go on the offensive it should (that's why Stalin kept insisting on pushing that button). What happened was that the collapse of the Soviet first Echelon was so utterly disastrous that STAVKA was never able to take back the initiative and just spent the rest of the year trying to get back on balance.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:37
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Ardent Communist posted:
I know exactly who said it, Albert Einstein, a physicist who never went to the USSR, and advocated a democratic form of government where people were free to choose their own leader and spoke out strongly against cults of personality and specifically against autocracies. Said in the 1930's, an era where many people were misinformed and wrong about the nature not only of Stalins show trials but of the entire form of government of the USSR. Who would go on to change their mind when the true nature of it became apparent. Appealing to the view of someone who had less knowledge than we do now of the realities of what went on in the USSR, and whose claim to fame has absolutely nothing to do with the subject he is discussing, to try and lend credence to your bizarre defence of Stalins show trials is a novel turn even for you and does you and your argument absolutely no credit whatsoever.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:40
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And that professor? Albert Einstein. You're a literal chain email my dude. (not you polaykov you're a great poster)
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Jul 12, 2019 21:44
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*Chronosphere sounds* Who the gently caress is Hitler? *Einstein smiles and taps nose*
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Jul 12, 2019 21:49
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fishmech posted:The first Soviet Ruble was a direct continuation of the Imperial Ruble already in use at the revolution, just from 1919 or so it had different names on it. dude, thanks, this is really interesting. stuff like this is why this thread, and goons, are cool
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Jul 12, 2019 21:53
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Polyakov posted:I know exactly who said it, Albert Einstein, a physicist who never went to the USSR, and advocated a democratic form of government where people were free to choose their own leader and spoke out strongly against cults of personality and specifically against autocracies. In fairness, it's basically impossible for Ardent Communist to appeal to the view of someone who has less knowledge than him now
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Jul 12, 2019 21:58
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Solaris 2.0 posted:So I'm going to CineD this thread a little. One of the most accurate naval films I've seen is the Battle of the River Plate, which follows as closely as possible to the real battle. Of the four British ships that took part in the battle, two were still around to 'play' themselves in the film (the other two ships also engaged a cruiser of the same class as Graf Spee in the Battle of the Barents Sea). The use of real ships let the filmmakers show the procedures very accurately, and they worked with survivors of the battle to make sure that it was well-portrayed too.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:22
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On the other side what are the LEAST accurate military scenes in cinemar (non-stylized, so like no 300).
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Jul 12, 2019 22:25
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Solaris 2.0 posted:What are the most accurate military scenes you have seen in film? edit: i think there are some good scenes in the good borgia tv show, not the bad one HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 22:39
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zoux posted:On the other side what are the LEAST accurate military scenes in cinemar (non-stylized, so like no 300). The 1965 movie Battle of the Bulge was so bad that Eisenhower famously held a post-retirement press conference to denounce it.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:39
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Nebakenezzer posted:I had to read that last point twice before I said "oh, Marxists" and then move on
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Jul 12, 2019 22:42
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Cessna posted:The 1965 movie Battle of the Bulge was so bad that Eisenhower famously held a post-retirement press conference to denounce it. I remember watching that movie when I was like 12 even I was thinking “wait why are they suddenly fighting in the desert?”  Also the Battle of Ramelle from Saving Private Ryan always bothers me. Why the gently caress are you sending assault guns into an urban combat zone!?
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Jul 12, 2019 22:45
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zoux posted:On the other side what are the LEAST accurate military scenes in cinemar (non-stylized, so like no 300). HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 22:46
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I remember watching that movie when I was like 12 even I was thinking “wait why are they suddenly fighting in the desert?” And wheeling around a 20mm autocannon for some reason.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:59
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Agean90 posted:Wtf is up with belgium The difference between Belgium and France is too small to be meaningful. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:How do you explain Bulgaria, Romania, and most of former Yugoslavia under that theory? Not to mention the huge contrast between Czechia and Slovakia? 12.5 and 10.1 per 10,000 is still way too small a difference to mean anything. Unless you meant Austria and Hungary? Suicide is one of those things that are difficult to compare internationally especially across cultural boundaries - in some countries there are officially zero suicides, because a member of the family committing suicide stigmatizes the whole family. Or for a different example, in some places you can get lynched for gently caressing the wrong person and the authorities will turn a blind eye to it, so even homicide statistics are not always trustworthy across borders. And if we think of police violence I think it's obvious that different countries have different standards. And finally I might mention domestic violence where high occurence usually means that the government has put more money into hiring people to help victims of domestic violence and as a result also to produce statistics of it. None of these are one-dimensional things that you can draw a chart of and say, "see, people from xxx culture/country/ideology are bound to do this, while people with yyy will do that. From the same blog post, idk but this might be a more comparable statistic. Assuming that all governments collect suicide statistics equally for both sexes (which is not a given), a twice as high male to female suicide ratio as is typical tells us... something. Maybe that Albania is the most equal country in Europe!  But this too has to be taken with a grain of salt, you'd have to carefully analyze the source data with cultural knowledge to know what it means.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:06
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HEY GUNS posted:ride with the devil was all right I am going to assume for my mental health we agree on which is the good one.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:10
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