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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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VH4Ever posted:OK. Anti-labor...acknowledging that volunteering to campaigns has literally been a thing as long as campaigns have existed. Right. Boy, you better not check who is and who isn't drawing a salary from within the ranks of Bernie's army, you might not like what you find based on what people ITT seem to think is going on! You're just now figuring this out?
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Jul 12, 2019 22:31
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Incidentally, according to the article, some other campaigns offer similar positions, but they're either paid or guarantee academic credit. Only Warren and Biden offer it as an unpaid position with no academic credits earned. Bernie doesn't offer it at all. All of his internship positions are paid. E: To be clear, unpaid internships that offer academic credit are also bad. Just not as bad.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:31
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I just had an overwhelming need to remake the "A Man, A Plan, A canal, Panama" into an a Warren slogan deriding her plan for everything but I suck at palindromes. SOMEONE DO SOMETHING
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Jul 12, 2019 22:32
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Ogmius815 posted:I wonder if Bernie pays everyone who performs work for his campaign if he doesn’t that’s Bad and Bernie should pay them all , give them decent healthcare and union benefits as we would expect from every other candidate . But Bernie , being a progressive and not a shambling republican zombie like Warren , has actual principles
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Jul 12, 2019 22:33
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I just had an overwhelming need to remake the "A Man, A Plan, A canal, Panama" into an a Warren slogan deriding her plan for everything but I suck at palindromes. SOMEONE DO SOMETHING Yeah plans sure are bad.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:35
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Ardennes posted:The obvious issue is that the February Revolution had already happened, and the reason why the workers and soldiers threw their lot with the Bolsheviks was because of the general failures of both Lvov and Kerensky to both affect any real change or stop the war. Also, the right SRs actually who got a majority really couldn't capitalize on their support in the countryside in a large part because they were a largely decentralized one issue party that (clearly) wasn't prepared to actually run the country (there is a reason why they got lost in the mix later). It wasn't because of "Russian culture" but ultimately what choices were available, and the rise of the Bolsheviks was the result of the general failures of their opposition to affect any real course of action. I think you're presenting the Bolsheviks as too passive an actor here. Menshiviks had a functioning majority-government in Georgia until the Bolsheviks kicked them out. The Bolsheviks also began dispersing and closing down "opposition" newspapers in 1918. They weren't really interested in a collaborative or multi-party left government. The Bolsheviks did an excellent job of seizing power and holding on to it through propaganda, policy, planning and violence (and set a good lesson for any revolutionary today)... but again, given that the peasants and their various parties composed about 80-90% of the population, their political/cultural will was hardly being represented. i.e. I don't believe the RKP(b)'s success at taking and holding power is necessarily a one-to-one reflection of their execution of a "popular will" in a largely agrarian state that had rejected them during the elections. Ardennes posted:Eh, no, it was the result of the inability of Russia or the Soviet Union to compete on the same level as other economies, moreover, the Great Depression actually did tremendously affect the Soviet Union. It is a complete myth that it didn't. Also, Comecon was also more complicated than just "limiting the Western influence." I've reduced the functioning of the COMECON down a bit (it was more of an attempt to coerce Eastern Bloc states into replicating a limited Law of Comparative Advantage scenario), but ultimately its goal was to foster internal trade to reduce reliance on foreign goods imports (which always came at the cost of very limited supplies of Western currency), and in some cases to supply the USSR with the kinds of advanced industrial and commercial goods that it had struggled to make on its own. The Great Depression may have severely affected export grain prices, but to argue that it had the same kind of negative impact on the USSR as it did on the US or Weimar Germany would be inaccurate, I think. In any case, I didn't deny that the USSR failed to compete with other economies, merely that the idea that the USSR failed because of external "economic sabotage" is not really historically accurate. Although that kind of analysis can potentially apply to pre-1961 East Germany and Cuba. Ardennes posted:Wasn't the "collaboration" a couple of isolation incidences involving strikes? Moreover, the SDP refused to work with the KPD in either case, but the Center Party was happy to work directly with the NSDAP. The SPD was dumb as poo poo (or liberal as poo poo, take your pick), but so was the KPD. Besides the strikes, members of the KPD contributed to the Nazi Beobachter newspaper, spread anti-SPD Nazi propaganda and fought the Eiserne Front/Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold in the streets. Ironically, the Rotfrontkämpferbund (KPD's militias) and the Eiserne Front collaborated in the streets against the Nazis more often than their respective leaders did in Parliament. Ardennes posted:No Russians are "not destinated to dictatorship" but "I am more Russian than thou thus I am right" is similarly tiresome. I only whipped out this "I was born in Leningrad" poo poo as a response to the "I'm part Russian, stop this faux-outrage" accusation. Normally, I discuss the merits of history without ever bringing it up - because most of my experiences in the USSR are unrelated to general Soviet history or modern social conditions and standpoint theory doesn't apply here. ________________ Last post on this topic in this thread, lest I derail any more.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:36
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Ogmius815 posted:Yeah plans sure are bad. 
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Jul 12, 2019 22:37
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Condiv posted:first, it's not just me saying it's anti-labor, it's the campaign workers guild too: I'm not happy about it either, but some of the performative wokeness in this thread about it, when it was the general way things operated since forever, is a bit much. Can't we simply acknowledge that if you're "campaign staff" you should probably be paid something and move on? Bernie having a unionized campaign staff is something objectively good and worth highlighting, but Warren not having one isn't any worse that the other 18 candidates who don't either so I'm not sure why she's being singled out here (or in the article), that's all. I guess if we used that info to start an effort on social media and by phone calls and letters to push her to transform her staff as Bernie did it would make a positive difference but it seems like people ITT think passionately making GBS threads on her for it helps those people or something. It doesn't.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:39
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Her's final plan... Fisher!
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Jul 12, 2019 22:42
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The CPB is completely toothless and people should stop bringing it up as a reason why Warren is any good. She was literally pushed out of it. The spinelessness of it all.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:43
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Hmm maybe because literally all the other candidates are non starters (Klobuchar) or liberals who’s default status is terrible. Warren is trying to show her “progressive” bonafides but the Reaganism is deeply embedded in her, and it’s embarrassing .
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Jul 12, 2019 22:43
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VH4Ever posted:I'm not happy about it either, but some of the performative wokeness in this thread about it, when it was the general way things operated since forever, is a bit much. Can't we simply acknowledge that if you're "campaign staff" you should probably be paid something and move on? Bernie having a unionized campaign staff is something objectively good and worth highlighting, but Warren not having one isn't any worse that the other 18 candidates who don't either so I'm not sure why she's being singled out here (or in the article), that's all. I guess if we used that info to start an effort on social media and by phone calls and letters to push her to transform her staff as Bernie did it would make a positive difference but it seems like people ITT think passionately making GBS threads on her for it helps those people or something. It doesn't. Well, she's being singled out in the article because it's something that only she and Biden are doing. Again, at minimum everyone else who does this gives academic credit, and even that isn't good enough. Warren and Biden are the only ones offering unpaid internship options that don't even do that much. It's not really performative wokeness so much as it's being consistent. If you truly believe that all core campaign staff should be paid, you should be calling her out on this too.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:45
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VH4Ever posted:I'm not happy about it either, but some of the performative wokeness in this thread about it, when it was the general way things operated since forever, is a bit much. Can't we simply acknowledge that if you're "campaign staff" you should probably be paid something and move on? Bernie having a unionized campaign staff is something objectively good and worth highlighting, but Warren not having one isn't any worse that the other 18 candidates who don't either so I'm not sure why she's being singled out here (or in the article), that's all. I guess if we used that info to start an effort on social media and by phone calls and letters to push her to transform her staff as Bernie did it would make a positive difference but it seems like people ITT think passionately making GBS threads on her for it helps those people or something. It doesn't. The other 18 candidates aren’t supposedly pro-labor vh4ever. This kind of stuff is supposed to be what differentiates her from those 18 lovely candidates. In fact she intentionally gave that impression with policies like giving workers representation on company boards. That she’s not walking the walk when it comes to her campaign should be called out, and she should be pressured to do better.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:45
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Condiv posted:The other 18 candidates aren’t supposedly pro-labor vh4ever. This kind of stuff is supposed to be what differentiates her from those 18 lovely candidates. In fact she intentionally gave that impression with policies like giving workers representation on company boards. That she’s not walking the walk when it comes to her campaign should be called out, and she should be pressured to do better. So OK, THIS I agree with. Yes. Let's do that.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:47
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Holy poo poo https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/1149784848703340544
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Jul 12, 2019 22:49
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Ogmius815 posted:So it seems like having a paid and unpaid program is probably the right solution then. Good thing that’s what Warren does!
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Jul 12, 2019 22:53
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Jul 12, 2019 22:56
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That article is atrocious and lol that his top concerns are Pete butt might do molly and get wild instead of you know , that he’s an amoral fascist psychopath troop . Liberals priorities are so hosed up
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Jul 12, 2019 22:57
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Jul 12, 2019 22:59
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https://twitter.com/TVHilton/status/1149789534114050048 https://twitter.com/TVHilton/status/1149788492202774528
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Jul 12, 2019 23:23
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There will be access to op-ed pages
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Jul 12, 2019 23:31
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The devil tips his hat to thee.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:32
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That's kinda gross and really homophobic as gently caress
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Jul 12, 2019 23:34
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EdithUpwards posted:The devil tips his hat to thee. Pelosi getting in bed with Fox News and Trump today. Good day for her.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:37
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VH4Ever posted:the performative wokeness in this thread about it, when it was the general way things operated since forever the succ creed
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Jul 12, 2019 23:39
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Ranter posted:Gravel's crew just texted me they need 1400 more new donors to qualify. According to their site, as of right now they have 4 days to get 112 more unique donors.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:44
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King of Solomon posted:Getting Gravel into the debates IS productive Also the Gravel campaign (insomuch as it exists) has already used donor money to make an anti-Biden ad and release it in Iowa, so the money is apparently being directly used for good things other than getting him on stage.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:54
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-kamala-harris-come-pelosi-s-defense-after-aoc-criticism-n1029336
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Jul 12, 2019 23:55
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EdithUpwards posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-kamala-harris-come-pelosi-s-defense-after-aoc-criticism-n1029336 lol 
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Jul 12, 2019 23:59
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There is nothing as clarifying about someone as their hatred for AOC.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:03
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We now know the subject of Pelosi and Trump's closed door negotiations, deporting Ilhan Omar.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:07
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theblackw0lf posted:The Warren fellowship program sounds similar to the Obama fellowship program that was done during 2012. Ogmius815 posted:Those positions either would not exist at all, or there would be way fewer. Having both paid and unpaid programs allows you to maximize participation while not limiting participation to those who can afford not to be paid for a while. This is basically a fancy version of the "if there wasn't a minimum wage we could hire more people" argument conservatives make. The argument of "people could be working who weren't" is still the same. Do you think the minimum wage should disappear as long as people making higher wages still exist? VH4Ever posted:There you go again, trying to bring clarity to a thread that just sits on its haunches all the time, preparing to strike and annihilate any candidate that doesn't conform 99.99999999% to every single item on their own personal manifesto and declare them cancelled for all time. Go away with your nuance, logic, reasoning and facts. We're having a DISCUSSION in here. I get that you guys like Warren and feel this instinctive urge to immediately parse her actions through a lens that paints them as good, but there's no excuse for this stuff. Unpaid work is not okay. It is not magically okay just because paid interns also exist. Willie Tomg posted:Honestly I'd be 100% cool with a hypothetical Williamson administration that didn't try to gently caress around with the CDC and NIH, even if her equally hypothetical nomination would be a total poo poo show with most of America not having been inured as I was with a hippified upbringing to the Crystals and Woo Aesthetic. I wouldn't, because I'm pretty sure she'd just end up doing things in the same way as usual. She's made comments on issues like Israel/Palestine that make me think, if actually in power, that she'd just listen to the advisors/etc.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:08
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Ytlaya posted:This is basically a fancy version of the "if there wasn't a minimum wage we could hire more people" argument conservatives make. The argument of "people could be working who weren't" is still the same. Do you think the minimum wage should disappear as long as people making higher wages still exist?
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Jul 13, 2019 00:18
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:More than that, unpaid internships like this are basically a separate track for recruiting the next generation of networked insider assholes. I don't like it. I hope she shitcans it as a thing. I hope Biden does too but I know he won't.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:22
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EdithUpwards posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-kamala-harris-come-pelosi-s-defense-after-aoc-criticism-n1029336 I really wish I could take back my vote for Harris for Senate in 2016.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:22
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 https://twitter.com/MikeGravel/status/1149813259349966849?s=09 https://twitter.com/MikeGravel/status/1149822541063569408?s=09 This is not a drill
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Jul 13, 2019 00:28
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Ytlaya posted:This is basically a fancy version of the "if there wasn't a minimum wage we could hire more people" argument conservatives make. The argument of "people could be working who weren't" is still the same. Do you think the minimum wage should disappear as long as people making higher wages still exist? No because heads of corporations hoard profit for self-enrichment, which is one reason why minimum wage laws exist. I highly doubt the Warren campaign has enough money to pay for all the people they would want in their fellowship program. Again, if you make it all paid, you limit participation. Also campaigns use the fellowship to also see who who would be the best paid organizers, in part by seeing how much of an effort they put in and their success in that effort. Were you able to build up a neighborhood team? How successful were you in growing that team, plugging people into roles, getting people to make vol recruitment calls? How many one on one meetings with vols did you have? All of these questions are pretty important for a campaign to see to determine who the campaign should then hire to field. If you make all that paid you are limiting how many people can participate in such a program. That's just a fact. Let's say you want 3,000 people in your fellowship program, each putting in 30 hours into the program each week. You pay a $15 living wage for those hours. So that's $450 a week for each person, or roughly $1,800 per fellow per month. $1,800 x $3,000 = $5,400,000 per month So you would have to be raising 5.4 mill a month JUST to cover your fellowship program. That doesn't involve all your other expenses. theblackw0lf fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 00:33
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theblackw0lf posted:No because heads of corporations hoard profit for self-enrichment, which is one reason why minimum wage laws exist. So why not call them volunteers? It seems a little deceptive to not call them that. Obviously it's not just Warren that does this, but given that she's supposed to be a different kind of candidate, maybe she should.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:40
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Yeah, we either get Bernie to the top quick, or this poo poo's gonna go some place nobody wins.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:40
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theblackw0lf posted:I highly doubt the Warren campaign has enough money to pay for all the people they want in their fellowship program. Or you find money elsewhere. Remember this is separate and distinct from the volunteers that campaigns have, this is just a way to have an internship and not pay them while claiming to pay your interns. Regular volunteers don't have minimum hours commitments, and other employee-like obligations that these "fellows" do.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:43
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