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evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Look Sir Droids posted:

Acosta is the rare Trump official that besmirched himself before his Trump tenure. I'm sure he's been a trash Labor Secretary for workers, but that's not going to be the worst thing about his career in his Wikipedia entry.

I don't think Trump would have fired him because deep down Trump is a coward about firing people. He only fired Sessions because he thought he had to to save his own rear end. That's not a consideration for Labor Secretary. He just wouldn't care and he'd shun Acosta. I take it Acosta figured if he's going to be shunned and ignored, might as well leave.

Acosta has actually been one of the least-objectionable Trump officials on policy grounds, largely because he appears to be tremendously lazy and not interested in going to the effort of rolling back regulations.

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gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

evilweasel posted:

Acosta has actually been one of the least-objectionable Trump officials on policy grounds, largely because he appears to be tremendously lazy and not interested in going to the effort of rolling back regulations.
Number 1 least objectionable is maybe Perry?

Lote
Aug 5, 2001

Place your bets
Yeah probably. Because he realizes he has actual responsibilities like guarding nuclear weapons in a kleptocracy. Thought it was gonna be all oil and gas too. :lol:

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Lote posted:

Yeah probably. Because he realizes he has actual responsibilities like guarding nuclear weapons in a kleptocracy. Thought it was gonna be all oil and gas too. :lol:
Not bad for a guy who couldn't manage anything better than a C in a class called "Meats"

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

gvibes posted:

Number 1 least objectionable is maybe Perry?

Yeah, probs. But I think he incentivized coal and natural gas with some reg changes. He's dumb, not much of an ideologue, and Trump doesn't care enough for Dept of Energy to do much damage.

I guess Elaine Chao is okay at Transportation and Vet's Affairs isn't any worse than it's been for decades?


Who are the worst? Barr, Ben Carson, Pompeo? Whoever is at Interior is pretty bad and so is Wilbur Ross, but he's pretty old and effortless. Mnuchin is a worse person than any actual policies he's achieved.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Perry sold nuclear poo poo to Saudis, though.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Look Sir Droids posted:

Yeah, probs. But I think he incentivized coal and natural gas with some reg changes. He's dumb, not much of an ideologue, and Trump doesn't care enough for Dept of Energy to do much damage.

I guess Elaine Chao is okay at Transportation and Vet's Affairs isn't any worse than it's been for decades?


Who are the worst? Barr, Ben Carson, Pompeo? Whoever is at Interior is pretty bad and so is Wilbur Ross, but he's pretty old and effortless. Mnuchin is a worse person than any actual policies he's achieved.

Barr is far and away the worst.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

evilweasel posted:

Barr is far and away the worst.

Yeah, I'm just going for who are the most notably bad. Barr is definitely the worst because he's competently corrosive. All the others are just clowns.

Another in the plus column, Dan Coats is not a bad DNI.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

wilbur is funny because he's so old and senile that the same supreme court that believed donald loving trump when he said the muslim ban, version four or whatever, was a completely new program not based on the idea of banning muslims, took a look at wilbur's lies and went "ok no, this, this is too far"

Lote
Aug 5, 2001

Place your bets

Look Sir Droids posted:

Yeah, I'm just going for who are the most notably bad. Barr is definitely the worst because he's competently corrosive. All the others are just clowns.

Another in the plus column, Dan Coats is not a bad DNI.

Are you mentioning him because Trump is trying to push him out right now? Cause if you didn’t know about that :lol:

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
Highly recommending "Vietnam: An Epic Tragedy" by Max Hastings.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Lote posted:

Are you mentioning him because Trump is trying to push him out right now? Cause if you didn’t know about that :lol:

Yeah, I knew. Seems Trump doesn't like him because Coats is too honest. So I assume that means he's not bad.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Pook Good Mook posted:

Acosta resigned.

Good, obviously. But anyone else got the sense that he was looking for a way out and took it? It's not like the Labor Secretary of all people would survive scrutiny over a prior lawyer decision. Like, this is small beans compared to straight-up embezzlement that the other cabinet secretaries are practicing.

He either wanted to leave and find his excuse, or he knows this Epstein story is going to get worse before it gets better (it's probably the latter).

They're playing survivor with cabinet secretaries and the other ones voted him off the island.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

evilweasel posted:

Barr is far and away the worst.

De Vos

Toona the Cat
Jun 9, 2004

The Greatest

Her bullshit on Title IX definitely makes her a leading candidate

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
Word is there were people in the white house pissed at acosta for blowing off/ dragging his heels on some proposed domestic projects...trying to remember the source.

Ah here it is

https://twitter.com/Reddy/status/1149695259712077824

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

gvibes posted:

Not bad for a guy who couldn't manage anything better than a C in a class called "Meats"

He actually got a D in "Meats" lmao

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Beefeater1980 posted:

Save that for later. One day we will need it.

I was reading through some of the advice from litigators in this thread and it surprised me how little abuse of process people described. I started my career at an English firm called Herbert Smith (now HSF after acquiring some Aussie firm, and apparently still the top English firm for disputes) whose informal motto was, according to people I met after leaving the firm, “never knowingly polite”.

The belief that process was there to be abused was deeply held by many of the people who were then partners, and while I loathed my mandatory 6 months in litigation (and to be fair was equally loathed by my supervisor), I actually rather enjoyed the intellectual exercise of bending the process as far as it would go.* Weirdly this bled into the corporate practice that I ended up in, making the firm’s ambitious associates hyper aggressive in a way that ensured most never got close to partnership.

*Also writing scrupulously polite letters implying that opposing counsel might very well be the worst, laziest, most incompetent individuals ever to practise. That was a lot of fun.

Imagine working for a banks doing foreclosure who just violate everything constantly. one firm solved this by falsifying affidavits and got a slap on the wrist for it after half of their own attorneys reported the practice to the state bar but business proceeded as usual

My favorite "process" issue was when our office got into the habit of giving the judge and attorneys one court date and the defendants a different one. That went over real well when a judge realized what was going on and the attorneys had no idea it was happening

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

mastershakeman posted:

My favorite "process" issue was when our office got into the habit of giving the judge and attorneys one court date and the defendants a different one. That went over real well when a judge realized what was going on and the attorneys had no idea it was happening

In family law I used to set temporary orders hearings a few days after the default hearing. Pro se would never file an answer (assuming they could just show up to the hearing). I’d default them and then cancel the hearing.

Never once had a judge complain.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene
Holy poo poo sentencing is miserable I'm never doing that without a full mitigation write up again

Tokelau All Star
Feb 23, 2008

THE TAXES! THE FINGER THING MEANS THE TAXES!

Kawasaki Nun posted:

Holy poo poo sentencing is miserable I'm never doing that without a full mitigation write up again

What happened?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
I mean unless he got a plea agreement ripped to shreds after your client changes their plea to no contest, he probably just got the standard sentencing for a minority client with a prior ie the book thrown at him.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Kawasaki Nun posted:

Holy poo poo sentencing is miserable I'm never doing that without a full mitigation write up again

practicing criminal defense without losing your mind is all about redefining what it means to win

did you get thrown in jail for contempt? no? then you killed it, my man, wtg

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
did you get thrown in jail for contempt? yes? then way to fight for your client, my man, wtg

It's all about perspective really.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.
no client deserves that level of commitment, I'm a hooker not a crusader

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
then way to stand up for yourself, my hooker, wtg

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost
Lol

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!






mastershakeman posted:

Imagine working for a banks doing foreclosure who just violate everything constantly. one firm solved this by falsifying affidavits and got a slap on the wrist for it after half of their own attorneys reported the practice to the state bar but business proceeded as usual

My favorite "process" issue was when our office got into the habit of giving the judge and attorneys one court date and the defendants a different one. That went over real well when a judge realized what was going on and the attorneys had no idea it was happening

That sounds like it’s across the line. What I’m describing is more like aggressive but plausible interpretations of the rules: asking for long extensions for filings as a matter of course; trying to force replies over weekends and keep the psychological pressure up; disclosing reams and reams of meaningless documents - the ordinary course ways of making the litigation process bitter, slow and miserable for everyone involved.

Writing arsey letters really was fun tho.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Beefeater1980 posted:

That sounds like it’s across the line. What I’m describing is more like aggressive but plausible interpretations of the rules: asking for long extensions for filings as a matter of course; trying to force replies over weekends and keep the psychological pressure up; disclosing reams and reams of meaningless documents - the ordinary course ways of making the litigation process bitter, slow and miserable for everyone involved.

Writing arsey letters really was fun tho.

That all happens in American litigation as well. In Texas (and prob other states) you can still produce documents “for inspection” and make the other side come to your office and photocopy the stuff they want. Guaranteed to piss the other side off but I’ve seen it happen this year

Sab0921
Aug 2, 2004

This for my justices slingin' thangs, rib breakin' kings / Truck, necklace, robe, gavel and things / For the solicitors seein' them dissents spin and grin / That robe with the lace trim that win.

EwokEntourage posted:

That all happens in American litigation as well. In Texas (and prob other states) you can still produce documents “for inspection” and make the other side come to your office and photocopy the stuff they want. Guaranteed to piss the other side off but I’ve seen it happen this year

Honestly - being any kind of litigator sounds like a miserable existence. It's all just petty passive aggressive fights and threats of sanction that a judge who hates you has to deal with

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Sab0921 posted:

Honestly - being any kind of litigator sounds like a miserable existence. It's all just petty passive aggressive fights and threats of sanction that a judge who hates you has to deal with

why are you a lawyer if petty passive aggressive fights sounds unpleasant to you, that's the fun part

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene

Tokelau All Star posted:

What happened?

Just baby's first sentencing but that poo poo is hosed and the DA played a couple little games. End of the day I'm gonna tell my clients that under no circumstances should we concede poo poo without a trial unless we are getting some serious benefits. I want to know to the day what my client will get or else it's trial time baby :yoshi:

Sab0921 posted:

Honestly - being any kind of litigator sounds like a miserable existence. It's all just petty passive aggressive fights and threats of sanction that a judge who hates you has to deal with

lol Sab is shook and needs to call an adult to litigate.

Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 14, 2019

Sab0921
Aug 2, 2004

This for my justices slingin' thangs, rib breakin' kings / Truck, necklace, robe, gavel and things / For the solicitors seein' them dissents spin and grin / That robe with the lace trim that win.

evilweasel posted:

why are you a lawyer if petty passive aggressive fights sounds unpleasant to you, that's the fun part

As my admissions essay stated, I became a lawyer to help people and through my firm's commitment to pro bono I.....

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
Law Megathread: redefining what it means to win

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

evilweasel posted:

why are you a lawyer if petty passive aggressive fights sounds unpleasant to you, that's the fun part

Is trial passive aggressive or just aggressive?

I sort of think it is both.

Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

Discendo Vox posted:

Law Megathread: redefining what it means to win

Law Megathread: I'm a hooker not a crusader

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Kawasaki Nun posted:

Just baby's first sentencing but that poo poo is hosed and the DA played a couple little games. End of the day I'm gonna tell my clients that under no circumstances should we concede poo poo without a trial unless we are getting some serious benefits. I want to know to the day what my client will get or else it's trial time baby :yoshi:


lol Sab is shook and needs to call an adult to litigate.

Wait. You went to a sentencing hearing not knowing what you were getting? How does that work?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

ActusRhesus posted:

Wait. You went to a sentencing hearing not knowing what you were getting? How does that work?

Blind plea?
Bonus score if your state doesn't have sentencing guidelines.
Double score of you have jury sentencing.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

the epstein trial sounds like it's going to be interesting viewing:

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1150795521847635968

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1150795845052354561

evilweasel fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 15, 2019

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mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
doc review update: the womens bathroom now has someone who is unable to aim their poo poo properly and hit the floor.   unclear as to whether this is the same person who defecated on the floor in the mens room a few weeks back

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