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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Trabisnikof posted:Right and the Warren and Biden campaigns are using a legal loophole to expand the definitions of volunteer to cover positions that are clearly internships. I guess I don’t really care if campaigns pay their interns and I don’t see it as a proxy for how a candidate is likely to regulate businesses. I do think unpaid internships at profit enterprises should be illegal.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:18
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Excluding the working class from the electoral system certainly can't have any unforeseen consequences.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:20
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Ogmius815 posted:I guess I don’t really care if campaigns pay their interns and I don’t see it as a proxy for how a candidate is likely to regulate businesses. Breakfast All Day posted:Excluding the working class from the electoral system certainly can't have any unforeseen consequences.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:32
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Ogmius815 posted:I guess I don’t really care if campaigns pay their interns and I don’t see it as a proxy for how a candidate is likely to regulate businesses. And when people talk about a clear ideological difference between Warren and Sanders, this is part of it. The idea that you can be pro-union, but not unionize your own workplace. The idea you can be pro-minimum wage, but pay some workers nothing. The idea that somehow politics is exempt from economics is exactly the difference between the two. Sanders doesn’t think you can escape your duty to act ethically just because it is politics. While Warren thinks exclusively drawing “fellows” from those wealthy enough to work 20+ hours for free won’t have any impact on their politics or worldview.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:35
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Trabisnikof posted:And when people talk about a clear ideological difference between Warren and Sanders, this is part of it. Warren believes capitalism is fine and intent matters, the bankers and techbros are bad because they loophole like this, and what I do is fine because my motives are pure
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Jul 13, 2019 18:39
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Ogmius815 posted:Well, that’s my point. This is something like the legal difference between an employee and a contractor. I think there’s room for volunteer positions on campaigns and not for profit organizations that come with concrete commitments and expectations. And being a volunteer is something else entirely, you go off the clock whenever you feel like it and put in as many or few hours as you want. There’s a pretty massive difference between doing that and doing an unpaid internship.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:44
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https://twitter.com/nberlat/status/1150086211668758529 https://twitter.com/nberlat/status/1150096594274045953
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Jul 13, 2019 18:45
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Things will not go well next year for the Democrats.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:47
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Nonsense posted:Things will not go well next year for the Democrats. Things aren't going to go well for them until enough Progressives get on the field to wrench control away from the Pelosi's and the Schumer's and drag the party kicking and screaming back to the left.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:51
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Nonsense posted:Things will not go well next year for the Democrats. But if you’re wrong what will that mean? What level of success will cause you to reevaluate the Silent Leftist Majority hypothesis? If they retain the House? If they win the senate? If they win the White House? What would make you wrong?
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Jul 13, 2019 18:54
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None of that will happen. Incumbency at ALL levels that will happen.
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Jul 13, 2019 19:15
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Cerebral Bore posted:A volunteer is someone that you can ask to do something, a staffer is someone you can tell to do something, hth. Like there's a difference. What, are you going to keep volunteers around who don't do what they're asked?
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Jul 13, 2019 19:24
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Ogmius815 posted:Well, that’s my point. This is something like the legal difference between an employee and a contractor. I think there’s room for volunteer positions on campaigns and not for profit organizations that come with concrete commitments and expectations. Indentured servitude: A-OK
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Jul 13, 2019 19:32
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At least Ogmius's position seems to be explicitly opposed to the left-wing one (in that he seems to basically be fine with unpaid internships existing), as opposed to making some tortured attempt at justifying them within a left-wing ideological framework. Though I would ask them (Ogmius) to reconsider this idea that non-profits are somehow morally "in the clear" compared with for-profit enterprises. A business can still exploit workers even if it's not for-profit. For example, it can use unpaid work in order to allow higher-level/management positions to be paid more.
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Jul 13, 2019 19:45
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Ytlaya posted:At least Ogmius's position seems to be explicitly opposed to the left-wing one (in that he seems to basically be fine with unpaid internships existing), as opposed to making some tortured attempt at justifying them within a left-wing ideological framework. Sure, but bloated overhead is a much less efficient means of extracting surplus value so I’m generally less worried about it. Moreover, even when non profit salaries become very high they aren’t usually competitive with profit enterprises of a similar scope. In general I’m more concerned about giving nonprofits more flexibility to accomplish their work because the work is often good.
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Jul 13, 2019 19:56
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Bernie's staff are unionized because its a for-profit enterprise.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:00
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Ague Proof posted:"Great troll in thread, Calibanibal, go and see them." "But doctor, I AM Calibaniacci!  "Nonsense posted:Things will not go well next year for the Democrats. For the DNC, probably not. For many individual progressive Democratic candidates, including Bernie, hopefully they will go very, very well. (including in primaries!)
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Jul 13, 2019 20:03
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I'm completely in favor of Warren's plan to provide employers access to flexibility
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Jul 13, 2019 20:07
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Calibanibal posted:I'm completely in favor of Warren's plan to provide employers access to flexibility Please. No one provides access to flexibility better than Williamson.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:09
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Calibanibal posted:I'm completely in favor of Warren's plan to provide employers access to flexibility Her running mate will be world famous yoga master Diamond Dallas Page.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:20
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Ogmius815 posted:I think there’s room for volunteer positions on campaigns and not for profit organizations that come with concrete commitments and expectations.  Forcing people to work for free in order to get a job is abuse op
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Jul 13, 2019 20:31
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HootTheOwl posted:Like there's a difference. What, are you going to keep volunteers around who don't do what they're asked? If there's no difference then scrap the fellowship program and use volunteers to do that work, easy right.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:37
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Ogmius815 posted:The situation is different because campaigns aren’t for-profit businesses. People are there because they want to be, not because they’re desperate to go on living. Thus, exploitation is of less concern. I'm pretty sure political campaigns are more for-profit than most actual for-profit businesses are, even if the flow of money into the owner's pocket is a bit more indirect. Private business usually at least pretends to be about more than just garnering power and profits for the owner, but that's the entire point of a political campaign.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:38
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the "fellowship" program is not a campaign volunteer program. the easy way to tell the two apart is that campaign volunteers don't fill in the same application paid interns do, but these unpaid interns fill in the exact same application as paid interns
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Jul 13, 2019 20:41
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OH gently caress https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1150112178009202690 Bernie is increasingly giving less of a gently caress!!!
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Jul 13, 2019 20:47
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VitalSigns posted:If there's no difference then scrap the fellowship program and use volunteers to do that work, easy right. I think all volunteers should be paid. And if they want to donate that money back to whatever they volunteered for, let them. The wonks can with out if it should be tax free.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:02
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Ogmius815 posted:I guess I don’t really care if campaigns pay their interns and I don’t see it as a proxy for how a candidate is likely to regulate businesses. For someone trying to be a pro-labor candidate, allowing labor to be exploited in the one place they have 100% control over says a lot.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:23
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Majorian posted:OH gently caress paradoxically, he's giving more of a gently caress fight back Koalas March posted:S/o to lastgirl for being a real one itt   smash the patriarchy
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Jul 13, 2019 21:28
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Ogmius815 posted:Well, that’s my point. This is something like the legal difference between an employee and a contractor. Oh hey, another thing that should not exist. crazy cloud posted:Warren believes capitalism is fine and intent matters, the bankers and techbros are bad because they loophole like this, and what I do is fine because my motives are pure Liberals, much like conservatives, think that the only thing wrong with our current system is that the wrong people are in charge. "Bernie bros are a bunch of broke rear end morons" - Politico Headline, https://twitter.com/politico/status/1149679882798063616
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Jul 13, 2019 21:43
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Can't wait to see the bazillion thinkpieces about how attracting new voters is actually bad and racist somehow.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:49
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Sanders supporters are dumb! (Or, y'know, they have less income and degrees because young people have less income and degrees.)
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Jul 13, 2019 22:05
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Young broke men are the target audience for fash, ipso facto Bernie voters are fash. It's classic galaxy brain pundit syllogism
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Jul 13, 2019 22:14
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Marxalot posted:Oh hey, another thing that should not exist. Bernie voters are all wealthy college bros, except when they're all white racist blue collar workers, except when they're all 18 year old kids (can be not white, just naive), except when they're all old hippies, except when they're all clueless middle age Biden swing voters, except when they're all
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Jul 13, 2019 22:32
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Also lol at the multitude of ways that article manages not to talk about Bernie's black youth vote, especially young black women, "men and younger people", "he was unable to win over older voters, especially older voters of color", etc. Also, "Twenty percent of men support Sanders and 11 percent support Warren; 18 percent of women are behind Sanders and 14 percent are behind Warren." Yet at least six times in the article we're told he struggles to win over women. Also a reminder when anyone says "postgraduate degree" they're doing so because it includes MBAs and other professional degrees.
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Jul 13, 2019 22:39
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Cerebral Bore posted:Can't wait to see the bazillion thinkpieces about how attracting new voters is actually bad and racist somehow. The DNC and RNC have a rationally vested interest in voter suppression. 
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Jul 13, 2019 22:44
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It would be nice if polls that ask respondents how closely they pay attention to politics, or how informed they are, followed up with general questions of fact to then gauge the quality of the respondents information. I mean, I know someone who follows politics and the news very closely, but they do so through absolute garbage sources. I also know someone who thinks they are highly informed about politics because political news is currently highly pervasive in the culture. Neither one knows dick, but would respond to a question about how closely they're following things with "very".
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Jul 13, 2019 23:13
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Gyges posted:It would be nice if polls that ask respondents how closely they pay attention to politics, or how informed they are, followed up with general questions of fact to then gauge the quality of the respondents information. “Would you support or oppose bombing Agrabah?”
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Jul 13, 2019 23:28
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Has Warren said before that she'd legalize every immigrant? https://twitter.com/Robillard/status/1150148164281876487?s=20
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Jul 14, 2019 00:04
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Lycus posted:Has Warren said before that she'd legalize every immigrant? https://twitter.com/Robillard/status/1150148164281876487?s=20 She has a plan that I'm sure will turn out to be a 'path to citizenship' for young people aged 18 to 25 who have never jaywalked and can provide proof of both employment and college enrollment
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Jul 14, 2019 00:08
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sexpig by night posted:She has a plan that I'm sure will turn out to be a 'path to citizenship' for young people aged 18 to 25 who have never jaywalked and can provide proof of both employment and college enrollment Yeah, most definitely. Her plan also lays out how everyone who gets stay has to report to re-education camps so they can learn how to speak ‘Murican, build walls under minimal supervision voluntarily, and effectively protest vaccinations at the county or city level.
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Jul 14, 2019 00:27
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