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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Why does every liberal open their argument with "While I believe *insert leftist position*" and then several paragraph diatribes against that. You dont need to tell us your position. You just made the loving argument for it.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:34
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'The self righteous left' lmfao neoliberal gently caress off with your framing of human decency as a radical fringe position just vote for Bill Weld and call it a day
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Jul 14, 2019 06:39
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Trabisnikof posted:And when people talk about a clear ideological difference between Warren and Sanders, this is part of it. Quoting to save, thank you
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Jul 14, 2019 06:39
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Ogmius815 posted:I edited that because she didn’t actually call for open borders. She said something that sounded a bit like calling for open borders, and then a bunch of Bernie people freaked out because in 2016 protectionism was in vogue on the left. Ah, yes. That is why Bernie was attacking Clinton on child deportations and had signed the fix96 resolution (which Clinton never supported or acknowledged). That is also why he hired Erika Andiola in 2015 to be on his campaign. You're not full of poo poo at all, no sir.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:41
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joepinetree posted:Ah, yes. That is why Bernie was attacking Clinton on child deportations and had signed the fix96 resolution (which Clinton never supported or acknowledged). I hasten to clarify that by “Bernie people” I meant Bernie supporters on this forum, not Bernie himself.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:47
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People on D&D were angry about Clinton being for "open borders"?
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Jul 14, 2019 06:49
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Ogmius815 posted:I hasten to clarify that by “Bernie people” I meant Bernie supporters on this forum, not Bernie himself. I have no idea what the gently caress you're talking about, but I'm also absolutely not interested at all in dragging up obscure forums grudges about political threads three years ago, so let's go ahead and drop this. If you have a point, make it without making vague references to what the forums Bernie bros may have posted way back in 2016.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:55
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Edit: fine.
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Jul 14, 2019 06:56
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Lycus posted:People on D&D were angry about Clinton being for "open borders"? I was personally against Clinton's open brders because she was referring to free movement of capital and the means to exploit low cost markets, not the free movement of workers. Also it was part of her whole public/private positions debacle. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jul 14, 2019 |
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Jul 14, 2019 07:11
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twodot posted:The question isn't "Does this have consequences?" it's "Are civil offenders treated like criminals?" and civil offenders are forcibly subjected to court systems, and legal consequences for their actions that violate government code, so if your contention that isn't being treated like a criminal because they don't have pre-trial detention (despite literal criminals having bail!?) then make it, but at least engage with the actual conversation. An excellent argument for why civil lawsuits for torts need to be banned... why, people are being treated like criminals being forcibly subjected to courts!
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Jul 14, 2019 07:16
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Ogmius815 posted:the self-righteous left weren't you just arguing for unpaid internships earlier
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Jul 14, 2019 07:54
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generic one posted:It says right there in the section you quoted that only making it a civil offense would be an improvement, you dolt. Lots of things would be an "improvement" in our unjust treatment of undocumented immigrants while still remaining unjust. I'm a lot less interested in whether something is technically an "improvement" than I am in whether people are still subjected to unjust treatment. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Jul 14, 2019 |
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Jul 14, 2019 09:16
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yronic heroism posted:An excellent argument for why civil lawsuits for torts need to be banned... why, people are being treated like criminals being forcibly subjected to courts! Torts harm people, by definition. Crossing an imaginary line does not.
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Jul 14, 2019 09:18
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VitalSigns posted:Torts harm people, by definition. So you think civil lawsuits of all types “treat people like criminals”? Because that’s what the OP is arguing.
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Jul 14, 2019 14:44
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Lmao Warren sucks so so bad , she defends capitalism to her bones , has awful awful plans , and yet people are lining up to defend her
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Jul 14, 2019 15:12
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VitalSigns posted:Torts harm people, by definition. All legal distinctions are ultimately “imaginary”. Moreover, not all torts require damages as an element. Further, I note that even the most permissive immigration system will result in people being “exposed to the court system.” Presumably there would still be some rules (some known security risks will be excluded, people with certain medical conditions might need treatment before admission, certain agricultural products need to be controlled, things like that) and those rules would have to be enforced somehow. Pretending that there is no difference between criminal prosecutions and civil enforcement actions but “the letters in the word” because both involve a court is super wrong.
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Jul 14, 2019 15:20
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Ogmius815 posted:All legal distinctions are ultimately “imaginary”. So the difference between murder and illegal immigration is "imaginary"?
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Jul 14, 2019 15:22
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yronic heroism posted:So you think civil lawsuits of all types “treat people like criminals”? Civil lawsuits are different from civil offenses. But, sure. Immigrants should be treated like desperate people in need of help, not like defendants accused of a tort
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Jul 14, 2019 15:30
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Around mid July is when Trump conclusively took the lead in the polls. Bernie is now in third behind Warren. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html
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Jul 14, 2019 15:55
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I can't believe things have degraded to the point where we have to pile on "civil offenses aren't crimes", a tautological statement, as some nefarious poo poo-lib trickery.
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Jul 14, 2019 16:20
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Edit: oops
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Jul 14, 2019 16:20
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Mellow Seas posted:I can't believe things have degraded to the point where we have to pile on "civil offenses aren't crimes", a tautological statement, as some nefarious poo poo-lib trickery. Should being in the US without documents be prosecuted as a civil offense, Mellow Seas?
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Jul 14, 2019 16:24
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VitalSigns posted:Should being in the US without documents be prosecuted as a civil offense, Mellow Seas? That's not my preferred position but don't act like this conversation didn't start with willful misframing of Warren's position. And although - as you know! - I support Bermie, I really strongly doubt he's going to eliminate "illegal immigration" as a concept. Be a lot cooler if he did, etc
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Jul 14, 2019 16:28
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https://twitter.com/ifnotnoworg/status/1150392483467202560?s=21 lol Booker Literally "If human rights are your issue, vote for someone else"
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Jul 14, 2019 16:31
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Mellow Seas posted:That's not my preferred position but don't act like this conversation didn't start with willful misframing of Warren's position. Under Warren’s plan undocumented immigrants will still be treated like criminals and charged with a crime. That’s a fact, that’s not a misreading of her position. I’ve quoted media articles backing up my statement, so if you’re going to call me a liar please loving back yourself up. Do you have any proof that disputes the Vox article I posted? Or do you think they’re misframing too?
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Jul 14, 2019 16:35
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Mellow Seas posted:That's not my preferred position but don't act like this conversation didn't start with willful misframing of Warren's position. drat your priorities are a mindfuck
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Jul 14, 2019 16:36
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If cops arrest you, detain you, convict you of a crime, then punish you for it (with deportation) you’re being treated like a criminal. Some goons think it’s unfair to point this out without adding the caveat that currently they treat you worse.
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Jul 14, 2019 16:39
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Punk da Bundo posted:Lmao Warren sucks so so bad , she defends capitalism to her bones , has awful awful plans , and yet people are lining up to defend her Some of her plans are good.
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Jul 14, 2019 16:47
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I apologize with all sincerity and solemnity on behalf of the "words mean things" caucus.
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Jul 14, 2019 16:51
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There's nothing 'civil' about forced deportation
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Jul 14, 2019 16:52
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Mellow Seas posted:I apologize with all sincerity and solemnity on behalf of the "words mean things" caucus. Do you think Vox is using the words wrong too? quote:Migrants who enter the US without papers would still be committing a crime, and they could still be deported. Or are you going to accuse them of lying instead? The irony is this all started with Warren falsely misrepresenting her position on immigration.
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Jul 14, 2019 16:59
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I wore my “Feel the Bern” T shirt at the gym the other week and this older gentleman came up to after I was done with the elliptical and told me, “ I don’t like seeing politics while at the gym.” I calmly told him that politics are all around us while at the gym. I couldn’t think of another time where I was on cardio and not looking at a tv with either fox news or msnbc on it. After I was done I headed into the sauna (still wearing my shirt) and relaxed a bit. I never saw that person again, perhaps he decided to go to a different 24 hour fitness.
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Jul 14, 2019 17:13
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a.lo posted:After I was done I headed into the sauna (still wearing my shirt)
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Jul 14, 2019 17:14
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mcmagic posted:Some of her plans are good. Name three
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Jul 14, 2019 17:21
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Ogmius815 posted:All legal distinctions are ultimately “imaginary”. Moreover, not all torts require damages as an element. Further, I note that even the most permissive immigration system will result in people being “exposed to the court system.” Presumably there would still be some rules (some known security risks will be excluded, people with certain medical conditions might need treatment before admission, certain agricultural products need to be controlled, things like that) and those rules would have to be enforced somehow. Pretending that there is no difference between criminal prosecutions and civil enforcement actions but “the letters in the word” because both involve a court is super wrong. Right. Instead of trying to redefine “criminal” as anything that involves a court, the OP should just say they want open borders and are judging candidates by that standard.
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Jul 14, 2019 17:22
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I still don’t know what Warren has done to mark a “good candidate” I guess she has been in Bill Maher more than other candidates (Cory Booker???)?
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Jul 14, 2019 17:25
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Name three Wealth Tax, 50k debt forgiveness for student loan holders, breaking up Amazon, universal pre K. That's 4 off the top of my head.
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Jul 14, 2019 17:25
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mcmagic posted:Wealth Taxi, 50k debt forgiveness for student loan holders, breaking up Amazon, universal pre K. Lol yeah the incredibly good plan of "doing less than someone else has already promised to do for everyone, and also means testing it" Wealth tax doesn't go far enough Does she actually have a plan for breaking up Amazon or is it just something she's said she wants to do, because all her actual plans suck
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Jul 14, 2019 17:31
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Lol yeah the incredibly good plan of "doing less than someone else has already promised to do for everyone, and also means testing it" I thought even bernie didn't have a wealth tax, or am I remembering wrong
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Jul 14, 2019 17:33
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mcmagic posted:Wealth Tax, 50k debt forgiveness for student loan holders, breaking up Amazon, universal pre K. Just because you say “wealth tax” doesn’t mean you’re some sony executive announcing “299” at a video conference
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Jul 14, 2019 17:33
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