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In my mind's eye I imagine him vainly pushing against the boats as they come into port, red in the face with frustration.
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Jul 5, 2019 11:03
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Truth is, Salvini's highly symbolic but ultimately ineffectual gestures are what are giving him the image of someone who's getting poo poo done, so he's gonna continue doubling down on that stuff, especially considering how ineffective the opposition is. For all his cries of Italians First, Salvini basically only focuses on marginalized immigrants because lol, he doesn't have a solution for any actual problem. EDIT: If you want proof of how ineffective PD is, they are now having a debate of whether the "migrant emergency" was a real emergency, after Matteo Renzi, the man almost single-handedly responsible for killing the party, admitted that *maybe* they should have been more courageous on that subject and on granting citizenship based on ius soli*. * it was never actually ius soli based on the drafts they presented, but still, baby steps Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Jul 5, 2019 |
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Jul 5, 2019 11:27
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I think it's safe to conclude Italians are terrible at politics.
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Jul 5, 2019 11:35
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What is Zingaretti like? He seems like he means well. Is he being hamstrung by the Renzi wing of the party, or is he just as useless? He seemed to have done decently in the Euro elections, given the state of the party when he took the wheel.
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Jul 5, 2019 12:05
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Zingaretti is a man of the DC, through and through. For those unfamiliar with the idea, the DC, the Christian Democratic party which dominated Italian politics for 40 years, was the stereotypical huge cartel party, with tons of internal strife, different currents and the like. Traditionally DC men have been characterised by an almost perfect art of transformism, being able to unite internal currents who disagree bitterly with each other into a sort of coordinated front. Zingaretti is one such man, but he is hamstrung by the fact that his party is dying, has basically no ideas beyond 'market good, social programs bad,' (while he represents the leftier wing, which actually still has some remnants of the old Communist party ideas, and actually believes in state intervention and welfare) and he is as charmless as one of those Moscow-trained gray bureaucrats Eastern Europe got to head their Communist parties after the war. He is a competent administrator, and an overall uncontroversial figure of the party, which means he can hold a facade of the party still existing, but he is hamstrung by lack of political initiative, and a party that has no will and no ideas, and therefore no concrete answers to the issues faced by the Italian population today beyond business as usual.
mortons stork fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Jul 5, 2019 |
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Jul 5, 2019 12:12
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Well that's a shame. Time for a Third Republic imo.
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Jul 5, 2019 12:25
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I am worried about Toninelli trying to show he is still relevant by nuking the Autostrade contract... That contract was made by a battalion of lawyers and was brokered by a friendly centre-left party, meaning there are more likely issues for the government than for Benetton in case of a legal battle. Shutting it down now would mean a stupid big fine unless the gov somehow can provide a bulletproof report on the Morandi bridge falling down due to misrepair. Doing nothing is still a bad option as it makes Benetton/Atlantia in the right when doing gently caress all mainteinance on the bridges/roads. But it won't destroy the state coffers as killing the contract will. Autostrade è cagata forte visto che facendo un paio di viaggi negli scorsi mesi tra centro e sud, ho trovato cantieri di manutenzione praticamente ovunque sui vari viadotti e ponti sospesi
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Jul 5, 2019 16:42
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Tesseraction posted:Well that's a shame. Time for a Third Republic imo. Either we return to city states or... we coast along waiting for desertification.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:03
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Char posted:Either we return to city states or... we coast along waiting for desertification. There is the third option of waiting for tectonic movement to crush the peninsula from below. Visto che mi pare siamo sulla stessa barca qual’è la tua opinione di questo decreto concretezza? A me sinceramente frega nulla delle mie impronte, tanto ormai tra cie e spid che mi mi han schedato manco fossi riina e Facebook/Google/Apple a fare data mining sanno più loro di me che non me medesimo.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:00
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SlowBloke posted:Visto che mi pare siamo sulla stessa barca qual’è la tua opinione di questo decreto concretezza? A me sinceramente frega nulla delle mie impronte, tanto ormai tra cie e spid che mi mi han schedato manco fossi riina e Facebook/Google/Apple a fare data mining sanno più loro di me che non me medesimo. phoneposting, quindi, scusa per la risposta arida. personalmente sono al corrente solo di due cose, il minor peso del titolo di studio nei concorsi e le impronte digitali. la prima: penso un bene complessivamente perché il bias che ti porta avere una strutturra composta perlopiù da laureati in giurisprudenza, economia e scienze politiche è percepibile... per contro rende i concorsi non meno arbitrari di quanto siano ora. la seconda: neanche un palliativo, un placebo costoso. il problema sta nel fatto che non ci sono controlli perché alla fine non conviene a nessuno essere così ligi alle regole in questi contesti. i dirigenti per primi falsano il numero di ore per cui lavorano per i propri enti... quindi? che cambia, prendere le impronte, se nessuno ha accountability diretta per una situazione di dolo?
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Jul 10, 2019 10:44
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What is this concrete decree?
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Jul 10, 2019 10:47
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Char posted:phoneposting, quindi, scusa per la risposta arida. La prima cambierà nulla imho, giochi sui punti dell'orale/scritto come e quando vuoi per prendere il tuo candidato preferito, di certo non vedremo tecnologi o funzionari senza laurea(ci metterei la firma se fosse così, almeno avrei qualche speranza di progressione di carriera senza buttare tre o più anni nel cesso in cerca di una laurea inutile solo per avere il bollino) La seconda dovrebbe limitare (in spirito) i pianisti sull'oceano ma solo se applicata nella forma prevista dal decreto(a cui il garante della privacy è opposto) di avere biometrico E telecamere su timbratori/tornelli. Solo biometrico (come vorrebbe il garante) servirebbe esclusivamente per dare incentivi rottamazione ai vecchi sistemi basati su tessere e prendere nuovi kit con rfid e impronta digitale. Solo telecamera basterebbe a fare il grosso ma dovresti avere retention abbastanza corposa(con una spesa gestionale non indifferente se applichi più telecamere a risoluzione adeguata a capire chi timbra o meno). Lato mio che dovrei metter su un sistema con impronte(diciamo Zucchetti per darmi il massimo di calci nei coglioni) mi esporrei a sanzioni GDPR la prima volta che mi entrano nel firewall(perchè di certo Zucchetti non fa salt sulle impronte stoccate e ci metterebbero un secondo a riversare il db in chiaro).
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Jul 10, 2019 10:59
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Lega more like Lolga https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1148895532334682112
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Jul 10, 2019 11:10
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Tesseraction posted:What is this concrete decree? Still phoneposting, but it is a quickly hacked measure to lower absence rates of public employees. Setting up biometric verification + cameras to make sure people aren't faking their clock in. There's currently some disagreements between our privacy guarantor (I don't know how to translate properly its name, it's basically the institution that makes sure every state policy complies with the respect of individual privacy) and the government, as it's perceived as a bit too invasive. Also, there's something regarding recruitment prerequisites, it seems we're slightly devaluing degrees, as currently they're pretty much obligatory and the right type of degree allows you to earn a better placement in our recruitment lists, even surpassing the importance of written/oral tests. @SlowBloke: ironia, lato tecnico ho lo stesso problema. L'ironia è che facciamo analogo lavoro! Io comunqie parlavo dando per scontato che le telecamere non le avremo mai. Poi la cosa che mi urta è che si tratta di una misura da applicare tout court quando il problema, almeno secondo me, richiede un po' più di nuance. Also: let me spread around that transcript. Our media mentioned absolutely nothing.
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Jul 10, 2019 11:28
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Tesseraction posted:What is this concrete decree? To add to what Char said, every Italian government since time immemorial creates a "anti-public servant" law when their polls start going badly to muster some popular favor. This law is pretty much designed to make the population see that the government cares about the average joe and will strike against the "evil public sector" lazy employees, but honestly i'm not seeing the same buzz by recent equivalents like the one Brunetta did in 2009.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:14
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It sounds somewhat like the stupid "technical solutions" the Brexiteers claim will solve their legal woes, that has now become a meme for not solving anything.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:29
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Tesseraction posted:It sounds somewhat like the stupid "technical solutions" the Brexiteers claim will solve their legal woes, that has now become a meme for not solving anything. Going for a wide spectrum tech solution to what is a simple human problem that requires common sense to solve seems to be the modern government leitmotif since the early 2k. I could list you all the recent bs they are currently demanding to be applied to us but it would only make me and whoever works in the public sector want to get blackout drunk to forget.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:37
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Has there been much reporting on the Russian meeting in the national media now? It was headline news here in the UK yesterday evening.
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Jul 11, 2019 11:49
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Tesseraction posted:Has there been much reporting on the Russian meeting in the national media now? It was headline news here in the UK yesterday evening. There have been a few headlines. I don't feel like it's been treated as the most important news, and I don't follow right-wing rags, so I don't know what they're saying there, but it's something that the Italian public is aware of (or should be, anyway). Salvini has already promised to sue BuzzFeed. We'll see if it actually happens, politicians here threaten to sue far more often than they actually do, because it's all about image (actually suing risks revealing that they did, in fact, do what they're accused of). Just for the lol, some League members have already been claiming this is actually a conspiracy against Salvini. My god. LATE EDIT: This is relevant to the Salvini discussion: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/11/matteo-salvinis-party-under-investigation-for-alleged-russian-oil-deal Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 12:32
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The last time us Germans attacked the Italian military we destroyed Western civilization for centuries, so watch out 
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Jul 11, 2019 23:59
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caps on caps on caps posted:The last time us Germans attacked the Italian military we destroyed Western civilization for centuries, so watch out 1943? 1917? Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 09:04
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Orange Devil posted:1943? I think he is referring to the roman empire, as if the last few centuries ever since didn't count 🤷♂️
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Jul 12, 2019 09:54
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SlowBloke posted:Going for a wide spectrum tech solution to what is a simple human problem that requires common sense to solve seems to be the modern government leitmotif since the early 2k. I could list you all the recent bs they are currently demanding to be applied to us but it would only make me and whoever works in the public sector want to get blackout drunk to forget. It's not just that, there's a general shift to tech-fueled acedia. "Should I change how I do things? Or should I just wait for some people to invent something that will just magic away the consequences?" See also: anything related to climate change, biodiversity collapse, rising inequalities, etc.
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Jul 12, 2019 10:49
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SlowBloke posted:I think he is referring to the roman empire, as if the last few centuries ever since didn't count 🤷♂️ Yes I'm aware.
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Jul 13, 2019 12:47
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I feel at this point any party with Forza in their name should just immediately be investigated for some sort of crime https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1150719515300421632
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Jul 15, 2019 12:46
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Forza Nuova are openly neofascist and have been for like 20 years now, they were one of the splits from the old MSI (the basic neofascist party since post-war era) who didn't agree with the latter's decision to moderate its ideas and collaborate with the centre-right. There are grounds in the Constitution to come down hard with the hammer on both, but for some reason nobody has ever lifted a finger on them.
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Jul 15, 2019 12:56
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Forza Nuova has been known to be a neofascist organization ever since it existed and honestly, pretty much all of their dodgy poo poo has always been evident from the getgo. Still, even knowing all that, a loving missile from Qatar 
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Jul 15, 2019 12:57
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looks like there’s an Austrian neonazi connection in there somewhere as that’s a lot of Steyrs, also a couple PM-63s which were polish.
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Jul 15, 2019 12:58
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Party Plane Jones posted:looks like there’s an Austrian neonazi connection in there somewhere [Axis Powers intensifies]
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Jul 15, 2019 13:04
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Forza nuova is likely older than most people in these forums, going all shocked just now that they "might be fash" is sorta idiotic. The police forces have never touched them only cause all police forces blockheads swing to the right so they consider them allies. The qatari missile seems suspect tho, how the gently caress did they managed to get it and storing it until now without the intelligence spotting it? SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 13:38
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I think the only person here not aware that Forza Nuova are fash was Tesseraction, and considering she's not Italian and doesn't follow Italian politics that closely, I think we can all cut her a break. EDIT: BTW, Forza Nuova has, as usual, claim they're totally extraneous to this because the person who was a candidate for Forza Nuova who happened to be arrested isn't currently a militant. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out he still hung out with them, though.
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Jul 15, 2019 13:44
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I think the only person here not aware that Forza Nuova are fash was Tesseraction, and considering she's not Italian and doesn't follow Italian politics that closely, I think we can all cut her a break. The twitter source was sorta making it look like forza nuova was a new alt-right group, so i wanted to make it clear for people like tesseraction that might not be aware on how old it is(i think the same guys used to do sit ins here when my dad was in school, in the sixties...). in sincerità forza nuova è sempre stata ignorata ed è stata sempre considerata intoccabile, manco fossimo ai tempi della gladio. Casa pound ha rubato il posto di favorita? L'arsenale è considerevole, forse troppo per poterlo nascondere/ignorare senza fare la figura dei polli? SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 13:48
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Yeah, Forza Nuova is like a tarzanello that seemingly won't be scraped away, no matter how bad it smells.
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Jul 15, 2019 13:48
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Oh I don't feel patronised about being told that FN are fash, I'd rather be filled in than people assume I know what's going on. 
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Jul 15, 2019 13:55
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Tesseraction posted:I feel at this point any party with Forza in their name should just immediately be investigated for some sort of crime https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1150719515300421632 Operation Gladio 2: Gladio Harder
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Jul 15, 2019 16:03
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After the majority split yet again on a vote on the TAV high-speed rail project that's meant to connect Turin and Lyons, Salvini has declared that the government can't go on and he wants elections as soon as possible the real reason is most likely that this is the most politically convenient time, given M5S continue to do bad in the polls and Lega has very high numbers currently. It sounds like we're embarking on yet another election season without a leftist or even just social democratic alternative to the right, with investors yet again freaking out about instability and right before the government will have to make hard choices about the economy. Good stuff. EDIT: it's important to note that, technically, nothing has happened legally yet. The government is still there, parliament is still there, and no one has resigned, as far as I'm aware. Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 10:27
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Yeah I was gonna ask... did he have the authority to declare new elections or does fantocconte have to ask the President to do it.
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Aug 9, 2019 16:08
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Tesseraction posted:Yeah I was gonna ask... did he have the authority to declare new elections or does fantocconte have to ask the President to do it. Calling new elections is 100% the President's decision. However, if (a) the government resigns due to a vote of no confidence or otherwise, and (b) the President cannot find a candidate PM able to carry a vote of confidence (whether political or caretaker), he really has no option but to call for new elections.
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Aug 9, 2019 16:17
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this election is gonna suck hard
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Aug 9, 2019 23:23
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It's gonna be fun seeing Salvini trying to look good when dabbling in the ocean of poo poo of economics.
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Aug 10, 2019 08:17
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