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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:RAISED BY GHOSTS is one of those beautiful phrases that I'd never have written myself but drat. TFW your parents never teach you about doors. I was thinking something like Neil Gaiman's The Graveyard Book, where the protagonist is granted "Freedom of the Graveyard" as a child and kinda lives as a weird, quasi-corporeal being. Then he becomes an adult and can't walk through walls anymore so sucks to be him.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:05
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Typical goon doesn't see the value in talking to someone unless you can give them orders or mind control them. If SA supported signatures then this would be mine. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 17:32
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Splicer posted:Don't barbeque a cake. I'm feeling attacked
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Jul 17, 2019 17:58
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Hey my players have an Octavo of Keeping from this supplement. https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/dragon/22/DRA22_TreasuresYugoloths.pdf And have used it to summon a Hydroloth and now can command it for 24 hours. However it's in their nature for a yugoloth to be dicks to their summoners, so was wondering if anyone had some some ideas for how the Hydroloth can screw with the party without actually attacking them. Hydroloth stat block. 
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Jul 17, 2019 18:24
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Yugoloths are deal-makers, so have them offer deals to the summoners that are either ambiguous or outright depraved, but still give the PCs what they want at a moral/creepy cost. Have them offer an unfair deal if the PCs are in trouble to get them out of it. If you know what they're going to ask for, have the yugoloth direct them to a previous summoner who made a deal, really making them paranoid that they're going to be indebted to the yugoloth. Of course, get them to offer their half of the deal before they know what they're specifically getting. They might be able to command the yugoloth without making deals, but the yugoloth can make that a big, inefficient pain in the rear end, and then actually be effective if they bargain. Making a deal with the devil should make them feel dirty, so make them feel dirty.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:36
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Libertad! posted:If SA supported signatures then this would be mine. It does, you just have to opt into showing your signature beneath each post (except in certain subforums, such as FYAD and BYOB)
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Jul 17, 2019 19:46
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bare bottom pancakes posted:It does, you just have to opt into showing your signature beneath each post (except in certain subforums, such as FYAD and BYOB)
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 20:19
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Infinite Karma posted:On the same note, my character was recently able to negotiate past a deadly encounter with troglodytes by the simple fact that I was able to speak their language and say "we aren't here to fight!" Turns out that all the other humans just murder them automatically. They were even cool enough to guide us out of their caves that we would definitely have gotten lost in. See, this stuff is great. My party nearly had a peaceful resolution with a band of 4 -trolls- of all things with the paladin easing them into agreeing to take one of the elk the party had hunted. Cause they're hungry, yeah? Except the possibly dumber-than-his-character half-orc fighter that also understood Giant decided to attack a troll that approached one of the kills, causing it all to spiral into a bloody gory mess where the halfling bard and him died.
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Jul 17, 2019 23:05
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bare bottom pancakes posted:It does, you just have to opt into showing your signature beneath each post (except in certain subforums, such as FYAD and BYOB) Those subforums must suck.
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Jul 17, 2019 23:15
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Arthil posted:Except the possibly dumber-than-his-character half-orc fighter that also understood Giant decided to attack a troll that approached one of the kills, causing it all to spiral into a bloody gory mess where the halfling bard and him died. edit: And the cool thing about the Warlock is that he gets that ability at level 1, when it might actually be useful. But like, I guess Monks getting that ability at level 13 is good, because that's going to matter for level 13 adventurers... Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 23:43
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Arthil posted:See, this stuff is great. Would 100% not rez that guy. You even have in-character justification; a loose cannon like that is not worth bringing back.
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Jul 17, 2019 23:55
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The way I read the warlock ability is that your ability is a one way street. You could beam your thoughts into anyone who understands language but you couldn't get thoughts back. Is that not the case?
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Jul 17, 2019 23:59
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Magic Bus posted:The way I read the warlock ability is that your ability is a one way street. You could beam your thoughts into anyone who understands language but you couldn't get thoughts back. Is that not the case? This is correct.
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Jul 18, 2019 00:05
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Magic Bus posted:The way I read the warlock ability is that your ability is a one way street. You could beam your thoughts into anyone who understands language but you couldn't get thoughts back. Is that not the case? Do whatever you like, because if you've decided it's definitely one or the other you're more committed to it than the person who wrote the rule.
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Jul 18, 2019 00:12
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Baller Ina posted:Would 100% not rez that guy. You even have in-character justification; a loose cannon like that is not worth bringing back. I was the DM, in this case and they -very- nearly sold his corpse to the small hamlets "healer". Can't lie I did think about it for a bit when it happened but given their general alignment I reckoned a troll wouldn't take kindly to sudden betrayal. The half-orc actually ran for his life but got caught up to by one of the trolls. There's rarely a lot of death in my local community thing, or real consequences I suppose. A lot of wide eyes from people when the bard was killed though that player was all smiles.
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Jul 18, 2019 00:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:Hey my players have an Octavo of Keeping from this supplement. https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/dragon/22/DRA22_TreasuresYugoloths.pdf He uses steal memory to make the party forget the 'command for 24 hours only' rule and/or that the rule has expired. EDIT: Bonus points when it turns out the Hydroloth likes the party and goes rogue from the yugoloth and just keeps pretending so it can hang around with his new pals. kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 00:22
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Magic Bus posted:The way I read the warlock ability is that your ability is a one way street. You could beam your thoughts into anyone who understands language but you couldn't get thoughts back. Is that not the case?
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Jul 18, 2019 00:55
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kingcom posted:He uses steal memory to make the party forget the 'command for 24 hours only' rule and/or that the rule has expired. He's not allowed to attack or cast spells on the summoner. Though the rest of the party is fair game. I am thinking of having him use Steal Memory on one of the party, so he can be a coy jackass about how he can't use it on the parties behalf until they summon him again.
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Jul 18, 2019 01:57
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MonsterEnvy posted:He's not allowed to attack or cast spells on the summoner. Though the rest of the party is fair game. I am thinking of having him use Steal Memory on one of the party, so he can be a coy jackass about how he can't use it on the parties behalf until they summon him again. imo thats a closed problem, introduce an open problem where the players can explore the solution rather than just loving with the party for the sake of it.
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Jul 18, 2019 02:08
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kingcom posted:imo thats a closed problem, introduce an open problem where the players can explore the solution rather than just loving with the party for the sake of it. The party summoned a hostile demon. That's basically begging to be hosed with. The party should be well aware of this, so their set of solutions should involve trying to navigate around the fact that the yugoloth hates them...but if they do a sufficiently imperfect job the DM can and should take some potshots at them for it. Unfortunately this is one of those areas where it really depends on what exactly the players say. The yugoloth has to obey the summoner's orders, which presumably are going to include a "don't attack or cast spells on my friends" order ASAP. That pretty well rules out direct dickery, though the yugoloth could still do things like e.g. try to bring down the building the party is in, kill their mounts, wreck their ships, use Suggestion to make NPCs interfere with the party, etc. Ideally the party should try to find a way to set things up so that the yugoloth doesn't want to mess with them. If the party can convince the yugoloth that there's a more attractive target, for example, then the yugoloth would be less interested in attacking their summoners. Maybe the party can bribe them with destruction of the portion of the Octavo that contains their information, basically a "we can guarantee that you won't be called back if you just do this one job for us" kind of thing.
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Jul 18, 2019 02:25
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The party summoned a hostile demon. That's basically begging to be hosed with. I mean thats your expectation. I see that hydroloth and i see a good boy who just wants to hang out with his new friends on the prime material. You can even have the yugoloth real mad that this happened too.
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Jul 18, 2019 02:34
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Ideally the party should try to find a way to set things up so that the yugoloth doesn't want to mess with them. If the party can convince the yugoloth that there's a more attractive target, for example, then the yugoloth would be less interested in attacking their summoners. Maybe the party can bribe them with destruction of the portion of the Octavo that contains their information, basically a "we can guarantee that you won't be called back if you just do this one job for us" kind of thing. That's the ideal for the party. The issue is that the Hydroloth attempted to see if it could get some payment out of them for its work, (Right after they did the first thing of asking the Hydroloth to explain all of its capabilities and powers, AKA asking to look at the stat block.) the summoner said maybe if they thought the Hydroloth did good work. Then he told the rest of the party that he doesn't plan to give the fiend anything and is going to exploit him for all he is worth. He has yet to put any checks on the Hydroloth's actions however. So with 19 int and no restrictions on his actions I think the Hydroloth needs to think of a plot to steal the Octavo. Might as well add that the Party is all level 8, so the Hydroloth is very dangerous to them, but they can probably handle it if things go south. Because they see how dangerous the Hydroloth is they also see how valuable having this thing under their control daily can be. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 03:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:That's the ideal for the party. Per the item description, the hydroloth only has to obey them for 24 hours, then goes back to Gehenna. Resummoning it for another 24 hours would require another sacrifice and 5k GP of components, and also explicitly pisses the hydroloth off. I can only assume that being exploited (as the sorcerer described) also pisses the hydroloth off. Also note that if it gets its hands on the octavo and destroys it, then all of the yugoloths in the octavo are immediately summoned; if the party can only probably handle one yugoloth then I doubt they can handle multiple. It sounds like the party isn't treating this situation with an appropriate level of caution and respect. It sounds like a decent opportunity to destroy the octavo, have a bunch of yugoloths wreak havoc on the vicinity before vanishing back to Gehenna, and blame the whole thing on the party. How did they even get their hands on a legendary artifact with this much scope for misuse?
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Jul 18, 2019 03:19
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Magic Bus posted:The way I read the warlock ability is that your ability is a one way street. You could beam your thoughts into anyone who understands language but you couldn't get thoughts back. Is that not the case? It's my understanding that such was the intent, and the writers updated the class ability language to make it clear that the communication is only one way. It seems like a bit of a pain, to be honest, but at least it's interesting.
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Jul 18, 2019 03:43
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Per the item description, the hydroloth only has to obey them for 24 hours, then goes back to Gehenna. Resummoning it for another 24 hours would require another sacrifice and 5k GP of components, and also explicitly pisses the hydroloth off. I can only assume that being exploited (as the sorcerer described) also pisses the hydroloth off. Also note that if it gets its hands on the octavo and destroys it, then all of the yugoloths in the octavo are immediately summoned; if the party can only probably handle one yugoloth then I doubt they can handle multiple. Actually because the description does not state the components are consumed like several other items and spells, I just ruled that the components are not consumed so they can reuse most of the stuff. (A new sacrifice is needed however.) They were considering selling it, as they know a buyer, but they decided the rewards of summoning Yugoloth's outweighed the risks. I agree they probbably would not be able to handle the summoned fiends if the Octavo was destroyed as the other rolled Yugoloths that can be summoned are a Dhergoloth (Challenge 7) and a Yagnoloth (Challenge 11) Not an Artifact just a legendary item. As for how they got it, the party had an encountered a gnoll warband, and faced defeat at the hands of the flind leader and his elite guard, forced to retreat one of them was left behind and captured by the gnolls. When they went back to the gnoll camp to save her, they found she was being prepped for sacrifice by the owner of the octavo the flind, who was having difficulty deciphering the ritual by virtue of knowing only one of the languages required to perform it. Because she wasn't dead due to the gnoll trying to figure out the way he needed to kill her, the party went in with a powerful ambush strategy and wiped out the elite guard and defeated the flind. (Who still almost managed to bring down our absurd 23 AC Paladin.) Then they took the octavo off his corpse. Noting that some of the Yugoloths they could summon were just as powerful, or more powerful, than the flind that had given them so much difficulty also increased their interest in controlling the Yugoloths. As power greater than one that nearly killed them would be super useful in their adventures. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 03:56
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MonsterEnvy posted:That's the ideal for the party. Occasionally teleport out of the party's field of vision, so they have to look around to see where it is. Intersperse this with occasionally casting invisibility instead, so they have to waste their time assuming it's teleported somewhere they can't see. As soon as the party enters combat, cast Darkness in the middle of the group. (If the summoner orders the hydroloth to attack an enemy before the hydroloth gets a turn - it's got a 21 Dex but bad rolls happen - force them to be very specific about the order. "I will, I'm getting to it." "Wait, all of them? At once? I can't do that." "My next action? All right. *nyehh* ...you didn't say I could move first." Etc.) In either event, the hydroloth gets to be disruptive and obnoxious, and can sneak up on the character with the Octavo while they can't see the hydroloth and attempt to steal the book.
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Jul 18, 2019 05:05
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Besesoth posted:Occasionally teleport out of the party's field of vision, so they have to look around to see where it is. Intersperse this with occasionally casting invisibility instead, so they have to waste their time assuming it's teleported somewhere they can't see. I am liking these ideas.
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Jul 18, 2019 05:43
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Splicer posted:A pseudo points system where you can only have the super good class abilities if you have bad stats and you can only have the super good stats if you have mediocre class abilities. This could be a roll system (cumulative total modifiers of +2? Full caster is on the table!) or points buy (I want to play a wizard so I have 10 points to spend/I want to play Buffcrobat McSmartsCharisma which leaves me with enough classpoints to buy beastmaster ranger) or even allow both at the same table since it all comes out even in the end. I was thinking this very thing... is it viable to change the heaviness of ability scores based on class. For example, from all reports Lore bards are great no matter what, so could people who play them have less points (array, buy, roll... doesn't loving matter) than, say, a Monk who is inherently less powerful but needs three good abilities to even be passable? I could see a whole tier-type system where players get +4 ability points for playing a Champion but +6 for a beastmaster - numbers are purely conjectural, of course.
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Jul 18, 2019 07:45
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To a certain extent, 5E already does this; Fighters get two additional ASI levels, and Rogues get one. In my own attempts to houserule or rewrite the Fighter, I actually came up with a similar-but-not feature called Adaptive Stratagem that basically made the Fighter's existing ability scores go further, allowing them to make a few different ability substitutions - Wisdom for ranged attacks, Strength for CON saves and Persuasion/Intimidate, Intelligence for DEX saves and initiative, Charisma for WIS saves - unavailable to other classes with the idea that no given Fighter would benefit from all of them but every Fighter would "stretch" their secondary abilities a little further and gain something in the way of utility from combat stats or survivability from utility/mental ones. Baku fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 09:00
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JustJeff88 posted:I was thinking this very thing... is it viable to change the heaviness of ability scores based on class. For example, from all reports Lore bards are great no matter what, so could people who play them have less points (array, buy, roll... doesn't loving matter) than, say, a Monk who is inherently less powerful but needs three good abilities to even be passable? I could see a whole tier-type system where players get +4 ability points for playing a Champion but +6 for a beastmaster - numbers are purely conjectural, of course. MonsterEnvy posted:Actually because the description does not state the components are consumed like several other items and spells, I just ruled that the components are not consumed so they can reuse most of the stuff. (A new sacrifice is needed however.) Have him instigate some fights with third parties to gauge their skills, and when his time is up have him leave behind a genuinely fair invoice for his services. Include a large and obvious discount for the services having been performed under compulsory summoning. Over time have the invoice add a section entitled "debt collection". Update it with things like "Deposit on Dragon: 500gp". Have hired goon squads poof into existence every so often to forcibly collect payment. Options: Resummon the yugoloth and pay him/work out alternate method of payment. Pay one of the goon squads. Resummon the yugoloth and kill him. Keep killing goon squads until the invoice gets updated with "debt sold to collections agency". Splicer fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 10:03
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JustJeff88 posted:I was thinking this very thing... is it viable to change the heaviness of ability scores based on class. For example, from all reports Lore bards are great no matter what, so could people who play them have less points (array, buy, roll... doesn't loving matter) than, say, a Monk who is inherently less powerful but needs three good abilities to even be passable? I could see a whole tier-type system where players get +4 ability points for playing a Champion but +6 for a beastmaster - numbers are purely conjectural, of course. You're kinda calling back to AD&D's exceptional strength thing, and it sounds cool. It'll be a bunch of work you'll get there in the end and have something neat. You'll have to do something about multiclassing though. I recommend putting "for single classed Xs only" like they used to do way back. I prefer the idea of "you get +x to your class stat/s" over "you get x extra points". Just be explicit: Monks need these three scores to be high, you get a +3, +2, +1 to assign to those scores. Fighters need these three scores to be high. Put a +3 and a +2 in your choice of str and dex, and put a +2 in con. Another way to approach it would be to select class and then generate ability scores based on that - literally put the method for making the scores in the class description. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 10:06
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Splicer posted:Resummon the yugoloth and kill him. Yugoloths can't truly die outside of Gehenna and the Octavo actually calls out, even if slain in a previous summoning the Yugoloth will always be the same one. (Unless he permadied in Gehenna in which case his name will vanish from the book.) Dying is largly just something that will upset them.
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Jul 18, 2019 10:32
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Go (almost) full gamma world Fighter: set Con and (Dex or Str) to 15. If they already have a value add +3 instead. Elf: set Dex and (Int or Cha) to 13. If they already have a value add +1 instead. Guild Thief: set Dex and Cha to 13. If they already have a value add +1 instead. Roll 7+1d6 for each unassigned stat.
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Jul 18, 2019 11:16
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Anyone who doesn't roll a D20 top-down for attributes after selecting race and class is a big ol' wuss
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Jul 18, 2019 12:15
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The Mash posted:Anyone who doesn't roll a D20 top-down for attributes after selecting race and class is a big ol' wuss Here's my character: NAIVE DRAGONBORN WARLOCK FROM THE WILDERNESS WHO WORRIES SOME OF THEIR MEMORIES HAVE BEEN TAMPERED WITH STR 15+2 DEX 10 CON 16 WIS 15 INT 20 CHA 12+1 Welp now I regret not doing this in a real game
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Jul 18, 2019 12:17
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The Mash posted:Here's my character: I use "who the gently caress is my dnd character" for way too many featured NPCs.
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Jul 18, 2019 13:40
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yugoloths can't truly die outside of Gehenna and the Octavo actually calls out, even if slain in a previous summoning the Yugoloth will always be the same one. (Unless he permadied in Gehenna in which case his name will vanish from the book.) Dying is largly just something that will upset them. "Travel to/from PMP . . . . . 1000gp Pain and suffering . . . . . . 4000gp"
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Jul 18, 2019 13:48
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Does the "can only die on their home plane" thing still exist for planars in 5e?
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Jul 18, 2019 15:31
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:You're kinda calling back to AD&D's exceptional strength thing, and it sounds cool. It'll be a bunch of work you'll get there in the end and have something neat. You'll have to do something about multiclassing though. I recommend putting "for single classed Xs only" like they used to do way back. One could also have it that scores came from x levels in a certain class and those bonuses have to go to certain scores as well. I'm going to catch some heat for this, but I think that 1-level dips are stupid. I find it utterly counter-intuitive that one measly level can get someone so many benefits from a class and I wonder if it was put there because the creators knew that class balance was pants and were trying to find an out. Elector_Nerdlingen posted:Another way to approach it would be to select class and then generate ability scores based on that - literally put the method for making the scores in the class description. I like this too, and I also liked whoever said weeks ago that stat bonuses should be class-based and not racial. I thought that that idea was so simple that it was brilliant, and it would encourage more "unusual" race/class combinations.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:20
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Sage Genesis posted:So what you're saying is, we should all play Shadow of the Demon Lord instead? I approve. Open Marriage Night posted:It was some draconic writing. We could have tried to find an NPC or just ignored it, but I was able to read it, and it gave us some clues for the next puzzle. If a designer makes a game that actually plays differently based on language choices, great. If the design is "the clue is in draconic because Larry speaks draconic," not so much. It's still not a weighty a bonus. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Wait hold on what's wrong with talking to animals as a power? Talking to animals is rad!!! Nothing actually, it is great, it's just a thing that: A) Could have been a lot cooler if you could just do it all the time and was built more deeply into the race's place in the game. For example, Larry can speak draconic all the time. He talks to motherfucking dragons. B) In 9 out of 10 games, doesn't really matter, and is not critical when it does.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:31
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