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Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Atticus_1354 posted:

Well no since I'm not working for tips. But the friend of a friend is more worried about non working coworkers. Tipping out isnt the same as tip pooling.

quote:

tip out (plural tip outs) An amount or percentage of a server's tips that the server shares, either voluntarily or as mandated in a tip sharing or tip pooling agreement, with other employees such as bussers, bartenders, back waiters and host/hostesses whose job duties indirectly assist the server.

When you say "tip out" you mean what we say by "tip pooling"

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Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

Atticus_1354 posted:

Thanks I have passed that along.


Well no since I'm not working for tips. But the friend of a friend is more worried about non working coworkers. Tipping out isnt the same as tip pooling.

I'm not sure if you're using terms interchangeably, but most non-customer facing staff in a restaurant in TX aren't eligible for tip pooling.

Atticus_1354
Dec 10, 2006

barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark

Devor posted:

When you say "tip out" you mean what we say by "tip pooling"

I always used it as meaning sharing with folks who dont get tips (back of house, etc). Not as pooling and splitting evenly amongst all the servers. Also in this particular case the bussers and cooks are getting screwed also.

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

Atticus_1354 posted:

I always used it as meaning sharing with folks who dont get tips (back of house, etc). Not as pooling and splitting evenly amongst all the servers. Also in this particular case the bussers and cooks are getting screwed also.

If you check that Texas law, back-end staff aren't eligible anyway.

Atticus_1354
Dec 10, 2006

barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark

Kimsemus posted:

If you check that Texas law, back-end staff aren't eligible anyway.

Thanks. The issue is servers being forced to pool and split evenly at end of night when not all are working full shifts or covering as many tables. I gave her the link and said to read it and decide how much she really cares about that job.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Kimsemus posted:

If you check that Texas law, back-end staff aren't eligible anyway.

lol if the part they don't like (mandatory splitting tips with waitstaff who didn't work much) is legal but the part they do like (mandatory splitting tips with back of house) is illegal

Also if you printed that page out and said to your boss "These requirements are pretty complex and I think you're violating some of them. Can we just keep our own tips" I wonder what would happen.


Aside from getting fired in a couple weeks.

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

Devor posted:

lol if the part they don't like (mandatory splitting tips with waitstaff who didn't work much) is legal but the part they do like (mandatory splitting tips with back of house) is illegal

Also if you printed that page out and said to your boss "These requirements are pretty complex and I think you're violating some of them. Can we just keep our own tips" I wonder what would happen.


Aside from getting fired in a couple weeks.

If they make a complaint to a qualifying third party and/or corporate HQ (if it exists) due to an illegal practice, and are subsequently fired, that might be considered retaliation in their state.

The lesson being -- if you don't get any traction with your management/think they will respond negatively, go around and above them.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal

Kimsemus posted:

Lawyer (but not your lawyer) (I don't know if I need to PM a mod and verify or something) but in most jurisdictions, purely "punitive" fines are illegal, as are excessive fines/fees. It depends wildly on where you live, as some localities are very friendly towards tenants in this regard, and others favor the landlord.

Your friend can ask for a breakdown, explaining how the complex came to that amount. They should be able to provide an itemized list.

Also, the SoL may have indeed actually lapsed: for instance, California's is two years for this sort of thing.

I would honestly have to have more info to say what you might be able to do, but starting with a formal business letter to the complex, clearly stating the disagreement with the charges is a place to start. Some templates are available online. Be specific as to why your friend doesn't feel like they should have to pay the charges. Have your friend gather any supporting evidence that might indicate they signed over the apartment and the complex took the keys, signed any other paperwork, etc. Have them send the letter and give a period of time (10 days or so) for the complex to respond. Insist on only corresponding in writing, and document the correspondence.

In the end, if your friend is forced to pay, they may be able to recover later. Hope that helps.

Thanks, this helps! She's in WA state, from what it seems like the SoL is 6 years for a written agreement? She did get a breakdown, and its stuff like cleaning fees, utilities and something else.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

therobit posted:

Shootout at the Golden Corral.

This happened:
https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/3622643-shooting-inside-sacramento-golden-corral-sends-customers-diving-for-cover/

You're welcome. Peak 'murica

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

seiferguy posted:

Thanks, this helps! She's in WA state, from what it seems like the SoL is 6 years for a written agreement? She did get a breakdown, and its stuff like cleaning fees, utilities and something else.

Glad to hear!

As far as I know, you are correct, and in this type of case the SoL would be 6 years.

Typically most complexes run by professional companies have move-out checklists and inspections, the signing of which severs the landlord's right to recover later. (If it doesn't completely, it can weigh heavily against them).

Unless there is a part of the story that is missing, I can't see a fee for those items reaching that high if it was a "clean" move-out without damages. If your friend feels that the estimate is unfair, they can take it a step further, in writing, and ask for proof of damages repaired, utility cutoff, etc. You can put the screws in them to some degree because the burden of proof is on them, especially if said move-out paperwork exists.

After a a period of years, even without the SoL running, I've seen creditors write things off, especially if the amount is de minimis to them in the grand scheme of things. If they threaten collections or other action and your friend feels compelled to pay, that isn't an acquiescence, and they would still be able to recover the amount paid in small claims court, which in most places charges a $40-80 fee for this kind of amount in controversy.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

We’re all waiting for you to come home

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

We're generally much happier than 5 years ago.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

seiferguy posted:

Thanks, this helps! She's in WA state, from what it seems like the SoL is 6 years for a written agreement? She did get a breakdown, and its stuff like cleaning fees, utilities and something else.
if she's in Seattle and didn't get a detailed bill inside of, like, thirty days (check the city ordinance, but I'm pretty sure it's thirty days) they can gently caress right the hell off. IANAL.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

It's actually great, it's a new(ish) thread, we got in-jokes, we support eachother, discuss important factual topics such as books, cabins, and the theater. It's almost like having friends but without the hassle of leaving your office.

Posts are billable at 0,25 unless you're blargzh, he posts pro bono. Unfortunately.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

I'm was one of the sad people there and I'm not sad anymore now that I'm in a masters in finance program.

We mostly laugh at things like this [url]http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2019/D07-17/C:18-2550:j:Easterbrook:aut:T:fnOp:N:2370471:S:0[/url] and make fun of toona and throatwarbler. There are still some sad extremely underemployed lawyer goons, but such is the shape of the industry.

If you haven't read that opinion yet, here's the closing paragraph:

quote:

This is abusive litigation. Alden, a lawyer representing himself, seems determined to continue the child-custody litigation in another forum even if that means exposing an innocent person such as Gardner to travail and expense. He concedes—indeed, he trumpets—that he has sued someone who he knows is not responsible for enforcing the state’s child-custody laws. We give Alden 14 days to show cause why we should not order him to reimburse Gardner’s legal expenses or impose other sanctions. See Fed. R. App. P. 38. And we will send a copy of this opinion to both state and federal bodies with authority over the conduct of the bar, so that they can determine whether Alden’s misuse of the legal process calls into question his fitness to practice law.

Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Jul 18, 2019

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Mr. Nice! posted:

I'm was one of the sad people there and I'm not sad anymore now that I'm in a masters in finance program.

We mostly laugh at things like this [url]http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2019/D07-17/C:18-2550:j:Easterbrook:aut:T:fnOp:N:2370471:S:0[/url] and make fun of toona and throatwarbler. There are still some sad extremely underemployed lawyer goons, but such is the shape of the industry.

If you haven't read that opinion yet, here's the closing paragraph:

Holy poo poo that guy was incredibly owned.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



I wonder if the Illinois Supreme Court has their disciplinary charges publicly listed, because I can't imagine they do not open an investigation into him after the 7th circuit reports him.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Mr. Nice! posted:

I wonder if the Illinois Supreme Court has their disciplinary charges publicly listed, because I can't imagine they do not open an investigation into him after the 7th circuit reports him.

https://www.iardc.org/clerksoffice.html

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Nice piece of fish posted:

It's actually great, it's a new(ish) thread, we got in-jokes, we support eachother, discuss important factual topics such as books, cabins, and the theater. It's almost like having friends but without the hassle of leaving your office.

Posts are billable at 0,25 unless you're blargzh, he posts pro bono. Unfortunately.

More like no bono amiright

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

we all float down here

Louisgod
Sep 25, 2003

Always Watching
Bread Liar

euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

buddy you and I post dozens of times daily in the Trump thread, we already have numerous cases of terminal sad brain.

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

euphronius posted:

That law thread scares me and I feel if I read it I’d get terminal sad brain and die.

come play with us milord

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal

Thanatosian posted:

if she's in Seattle and didn't get a detailed bill inside of, like, thirty days (check the city ordinance, but I'm pretty sure it's thirty days) they can gently caress right the hell off. IANAL.

Kirkland, sadly.

null_pointer
Nov 9, 2004

Center in, pull back. Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop.

nm posted:

We're generally much happier than 5 years ago.

What happened during those 5 years? Antidepressants? Heavy drinking?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



null_pointer posted:

What happened during those 5 years? Antidepressants? Heavy drinking?

Most goon lawyers have been practicing for 5-15 years now so they're in mid to senior level positions.

It's the brand new attorneys suffering the most, and generally for goons those are the associates working for them. MSM is still stuck in doc review hell, and I've quit on being an attorney, but other than that it's mostly just partners, experienced solos, or senior associates bullshitting.

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

Mr. Nice! posted:

Most goon lawyers have been practicing for 5-15 years now so they're in mid to senior level positions.

It's the brand new attorneys suffering the most, and generally for goons those are the associates working for them. MSM is still stuck in doc review hell, and I've quit on being an attorney, but other than that it's mostly just partners, experienced solos, or senior associates bullshitting.

I'm actually a relatively new attorney, but, following the advice of mentors, these threads, and building on experience, I went straight into federal work, so it feels (most of the time) like a regular, reasonable job where I don't want to kill myself. And at least at my school, admissions and applications fell off a cliff about 5 years ago when I entered, so overall fewer attorneys were graduating which in some sense meant less entry level competition. I just played my internships well and got lucky.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

null_pointer posted:

What happened during those 5 years? Antidepressants? Heavy drinking?

Lawyers, drugs, and money.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

nm posted:

Lawyers, drugs, and money.

And half the distance to student loan forgiveness. :toot:

null_pointer
Nov 9, 2004

Center in, pull back. Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop.

nm posted:

Lawyers, drugs, and money.

C'mon, nm, that's just being a lawyer :rolleyes:

lifts cats over head
Jan 17, 2003

Antagonist: A bad man who drops things from the windows.
I recently was summoned to jury duty and started wondering something. Given that there is so much political and social discord in America has it become more difficult to get a unanimous jury decision?

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal

lifts cats over head posted:

I recently was summoned to jury duty and started wondering something. Given that there is so much political and social discord in America has it become more difficult to get a unanimous jury decision?

In my experience no. Any provable bias could be construed as juror misconduct.

The USC also recently decided a case, Peña Rodriguez v. Colorado, creating a racial bias exception to the no-impeachment rule to address potential bias present in deliberations. So if some kind of racially biased statement was made in deliberation, the defendant can use that in appeal.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014


Someone I know has said that DC juries are more willing over the last 4-ish years to just outright not believe police testimony, which I find entirely plausible. Though, that is very much coming form a cop point of view, so...

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

by Reene
Toilet Rascal
Whereas when I began school treating jurors with a great deal of deference and respect for their sacred charge, time and practice has taught me that juries are like herding cats, yet even cats base their decision making on some form of practicality.

Whereas you're not supposed to present personal bias, they will. Whereas they're supposed to base opinions based on the evidence presented, they won't. I helped work on a case where the jury decision amounted to "Well, he's clearly not guilty of negligence, but I feel bad for the plaintiff so let's award $50,000 in damages anyway."

I used to be chastised by mentors for my lack of time spent in a courtroom, and for the little amount of time I spend there now. But I'm not losing my mind trying to convince someone who's only life experience is selling essential oils to captive friends on social media that you shouldn't convict someone of robbery just because they're black. This doesn't contradict my previous posts though -- juries aren't worse now than they have been. They've always been bad.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Kimsemus posted:

Whereas you're not supposed to present personal bias, they will. Whereas they're supposed to base opinions based on the evidence presented, they won't. I helped work on a case where the jury decision amounted to "Well, he's clearly not guilty of negligence, but I feel bad for the plaintiff so let's award $50,000 in damages anyway."

Karma balancing out for Contributory Negligence jurisdictions where a jury finds the victim 1% at fault without realizing this means they recover nothing

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

lifts cats over head posted:

I recently was summoned to jury duty and started wondering something. Given that there is so much political and social discord in America has it become more difficult to get a unanimous jury decision?

Maybe. When I was a PD, I tries to pick juries to hang. This was easier to do when I was in a courthouse that had a wide variety of people.
The goal is to put a few people who probably will dislike some other people on the jury.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Lol so glad I let this thread get up to 100 new posts so I could drink them all in at once.

More LOL at Alden for getting tagged

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011

nm posted:

Maybe. When I was a PD, I tries to pick juries to hang. This was easier to do when I was in a courthouse that had a wide variety of people.
The goal is to put a few people who probably will dislike some other people on the jury.

I hadn't thought about it that way before, but putting 12 people you think will get into petty squabbles in a room together and then forcing the prosecutor to try to get them all to agree on something is a pretty solid move tactically.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The discord you’ve been noticing has always been in the US it’s just now mainstream media and “moderate” politicians are finally picking up on oh maybe the GOP are fascist and we have a white supremacy problem. It’s always been the case.

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DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
What makes a non-compete employment agreement enforceable?

I've heard from several questionable sources over the years that they don't usually hold up in court, but I've never seen anyone actually fight back. Usually if the company tries to enforce it, the person backs down.

Non-compete agreements are pretty standard in my line of work. I've never had an issue with it, but one place I used to work at would try to hit just about everyone who quit with it. Theirs was pretty special though in that it outlined specific monetary compensation for the duration of the enforcement period (they basically agreed to pay you the higher of your previous or your new salary in exchange for sitting on your rear end for 2 years). Every other one I've signed basically just says "don't work at a competitor for X duration or we'll sue you."

I think something I've heard is that they are unenforceable if they prevent gainful employment in one's field, which for me would mean that the number of places I can work is severely limited due to the industry I'm in. I've never had an issue, but i'm curious.

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