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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Way to just pretend Mike Gravel doesn't even exist he literally doesn't
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Jul 18, 2019 14:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Way to just pretend Mike Gravel doesn't even exist And even as someone who donated to him I forget that he exists because he's not even allowed to debate due to how lovely the DNC is. TrixR4kids fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 14:18
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TrixR4kids posted:I think his only goal is to get on stage and trash centrists, not actually win, he's what 89 YO? I hate to tell you this but Crazy Crystal Lady's only goal is to get on stage and sell books More importantly though "get on stage and sell books" was also Trump's initial goal, initial goals don't matter that much if a candidate takes off. We're not living in a timeline where "this candidate isn't serious" is a reason to dismiss them, and even if we were, Gravel and Williamson are both "nonserious" in the same ways, so you've got a choice of dismissing both or neither.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I hate to tell you this but Crazy Crystal Lady's only goal is to get on stage and sell books As far as second choices go Gravel is probably the most morally defensible I have no argument there.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:24
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Is Williamson going to make the cutoff for the second debate?
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Jul 18, 2019 14:27
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Condiv posted:you don't seem particularly worried about marginalized groups though. people have pointed out to you that candidates with actual pull are advocating for policies that have actual known and measurable effects on marginalized groups and yet you spend an inordinate amount of time melting down about a joke candidate with no pull having a purely hypothetical effect on marginalized groups. Public health isn’t “purely hypothetical”, gently caress off with that bullshit. You and your ilk keep ignoring me when I tell you that the influence she has isn’t from bullshit polling, it’s from selling books and paid speaking engagements. The World Health Organization considers her style of garbage to be a top threat to health around the world, so quit treating this as a loving joke and learn something about public health. You’re also mad at me because I’m what, not copy pasting the same arguments everyone else has about Warren and Biden? gently caress off with that whataboutism poo poo. The fact that you and the rest don’t take public health seriously is the problem here. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is Williamson going to make the cutoff for the second debate? I believe she already did.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:32
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I can see how avatar is prorape, but how is it procolonialism
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Jul 18, 2019 14:33
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Solkanar512 posted:Public health isn’t “purely hypothetical”, gently caress off with that bullshit. Counterpoint, the fact that you don’t take American imperialism seriously is the problem here
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Jul 18, 2019 14:34
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Terror Sweat posted:I can see how avatar is prorape, but how is it procolonialism Romanticization of the pocahontas mythology. Pocahontas in Space. White Savior. All those silly native peoples really need is the big swinging dick of a white dude taking charge. Also he totally rapes that flying dinosaur till it loves him which is just hosed uuuuuup
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Jul 18, 2019 14:42
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Terror Sweat posted:Counterpoint, the fact that you don’t take American imperialism seriously is the problem here What about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about We get it, you’re too lazy to read anything I’ve posted and just assume I’m shilling for Warren because that’s easier for you to do than learn something about public health. I haven’t shilled for her, so why the gently caress do you keep bringing her up? Terror Sweat posted:It's very simple. If you believe that foreigners lives are worth the same as any American's, then your second choice is the crazy crystal lady. If you believe American lives are worth more, then your number 2 is the republican. Because there's absolutely no way in hell that antivaxxers are killing more people than American foreign policy, and if we're taking both candidates at their words, Williamson is anti war, Warren is neutral to war at best If you actually gave a poo poo about foreign lives our be backing Jay Inslee because the thing that’s already killing people is loving climate change. But no one brings him up because that would require some actual loving thought. The next thing that kills people in war isn’t the initial bombings, it’s the destruction of infrastructure that leads to people dying from easily treated illnesses. That requires an understanding of public health to deal with. Also, nice work completely ignoring the massive measles outbreaks in the DRC, Madagascar, and the Philippines. This isn’t just a problem in America, maybe do some loving research or something.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:43
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If a candidate is good on A and bad on B it is not “whataboutism” to point out they’re bad on B.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:50
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Solkanar512 posted:What about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about what about You assume people are shilling for Marianne just like how we assume you’re shilling for warren. Nobody likes them and they’re a funny second choice. We’re all now hypothetically choosing our top second choices and why we believe crystal lady is better than warren. Who is your second choice? Also, I’m pretty sure jay inslee doesn’t care *that* much about climate change. It’s his gimmick issue that he forgot to mention at the debate when asked what was the greatest threat to America. quote:
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Jul 18, 2019 14:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Romanticization of the pocahontas mythology. Pocahontas in Space. White Savior. All those silly native peoples really need is the big swinging dick of a white dude taking charge. Makes sense, I figured this was mitigated by the fact that all the colonists are evil bad guys and are depicted that way
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Jul 18, 2019 14:53
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Terror Sweat posted:Counterpoint, the fact that you don’t take American imperialism seriously is the problem here eventually the left will be capable of having a discussion about the 9/11 aumf and bernie's vote to give global oversightless foreverwar powers to george w bush eventually
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Jul 18, 2019 14:54
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Like, I hope the Marianne mindsetters are just doing this bit strategically, to try and erode Warren's support in hopes it boosts Bernie. Y'know, endlessly screaming Warren's an imperialist without a good reason, trying to set up a dichotomy of "crystals vs war" as if that's actually a spectrum of debate outside of broken brains. Cause let's be real: Marianne makes a few good points, but shes hilariously unfit for the presidency. Trump only proved any dipshit COULD be president, not that any dipshit SHOULD, and her "business experience" isn't a point in her favor there. So I'm hoping that even her "unironic" supporters here are just doing it to shiv Warren, because otherwise holy poo poo it'd be pretty bleak here. It's not anti-intellectualism, it's just dumb.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:58
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mormonpartyboat posted:eventually the left will be capable of having a discussion about the 9/11 aumf and bernie's vote to give global oversightless foreverwar powers to george w bush Bernie is the lesser evil
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Jul 18, 2019 14:59
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Yep, despite their hopeful bit earlier---Gravel is frozen out of The Drawing tonight and the odds of him somehow making the much higher threshold Debate #3 are effectively zero barring some crazy happenings. Ideally, they'll actually simulcast/stream in rough parallel to the actual debate like he managed back in 2008 even though they've yet to this campaign. Like history repeating, yet worse, 2020's draw of Genuine Characters is Sanders and Gravel in much the same way that 2008's was Gravel and Kucinich---reality is crueler than fiction as the latter is bound by narrative conceits of being believable and semi-logical progression. People want to contort and bargain their way through the other predatory ghouls in sequence as Trump looms like a Sword of Damocles, but this is simply the results of considerable efforts of the past few decades to hollow out and limit the spectrum of our political body---willful cultivation of bad options that are more poison pill than not. Warren doesn't exactly strike me as the type to bet on her instincts---she managed to whiff on Standing Rock not even that long ago which is tantamount to doing such in tee ball when neither an extremely small child still navigating the concept of clubbing something nor inebriated.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:00
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Ruminahui posted:Nerds itt are confused why people like certain candidates that seem truthful and charismatic and are firmly anti-imperialist because the candidates they’ve supported are all liars and have no problem bombing buses full of brown children if it means some Wallstreet bastards make a few extra mill I'm not confused at all. It's exactly the same deranged thought process that led to otherwise left-leaning goons loving Ron Paul. He loved to say things that went way farther than any other candidate was willing to say, so a bunch of anti-imperialism goons absolutely loved him for his rare stopped-clock moments, even though he was also a crazy person who wanted to repeal the Civil Rights Act. Personally, I don't see the point in getting all worked up about her, since she's worse than Bernie and there's absolutely no possible future in which she does better than he does. If Sanders loses and she's your second choice, then you might as well jump right to your third choice.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:01
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Pander posted:Like, I hope the Marianne mindsetters are just doing this bit strategically, to try and erode Warren's support in hopes it boosts Bernie. Y'know, endlessly screaming Warren's an imperialist without a good reason, trying to set up a dichotomy of "crystals vs war" as if that's actually a spectrum of debate outside of broken brains. It started out ironic then everyone doubled down on the stupid because that's what happens with ironic support. Same thing would've happened if ironic support for Air Bud had become a thing, we'd have people posting "hey at least Air Bud didn't vote to support the War in Iraq" and ignoring that he wasn't even born then!
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Jul 18, 2019 15:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It started out ironic then everyone doubled down on the stupid because that's what happens with ironic support. Same thing would've happened if ironic support for Air Bud had become a thing, we'd have people posting "hey at least Air Bud didn't vote to support the War in Iraq" and ignoring that he wasn't even born then! Both try to erode warren support, but one sidesteps the perception of negativity and (generally unfair) misogyny. If it's just unironic love, yikes. She says she good stuff but she's clearly just trying to get her name out there more.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:08
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Solkanar512 posted:Public health isn’t “purely hypothetical”, gently caress off with that bullshit. "considers x to be a threat" is a hypothetical threat solkanar. and your position is even weaker cause you can't show that williamson's presence in the race is increasing anti-vaxx sentiments. she apparently apologized and claimed she's not antivaxx so she doesn't even appear to be advocating in her campaign for the hypothetically dangerous position you're melting down over Marianne Williamson posted:"I understand that many vaccines are important and save lives," Williamson wrote. "I recognize there are epidemics around the world that are stopped by vaccines. I also understand some of the skepticism that abounds today about drugs which are rushed to market by Big Pharma. I am sorry that I made comments which sounded as though I question the validity of life-saving vaccines. That is not my feeling, and I realize that I misspoke." meanwhile, as others have pointed out, plenty of actual candidates have advocated for policies that are non-hypothetical threats to public health. like war it's really odd how devoted you are to hyperventilating about a candidate that doesn't have a chance and doesn't seem to be increasing anti-vaxx sentiment quote:You’re also mad at me because I’m what, not copy pasting the same arguments everyone else has about Warren and Biden? gently caress off with that whataboutism poo poo. The fact that you and the rest don’t take public health seriously is the problem here. i'm not mad at you solkanar. i'm telling you you should calm down. marianne is a joke candidate. her ideas aren't gonna see adoption, she's not gonna be president, and she doesn't even seem to be advocating for anti-vaxx on the campaign trail Condiv fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 15:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It started out ironic then everyone doubled down on the stupid because that's what happens with ironic support. Same thing would've happened if ironic support for Air Bud had become a thing, we'd have people posting "hey at least Air Bud didn't vote to support the War in Iraq" and ignoring that he wasn't even born then! Is this a bad time to support a Kaiju demolishing the white house so we can start fresh?
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Jul 18, 2019 15:10
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I support candidates that have never been a member of the Nazi GOP party for most of their lives, it’s very simple
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Jul 18, 2019 15:11
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Main Paineframe posted:Personally, I don't see the point in getting all worked up about her, since she's worse than Bernie and there's absolutely no possible future in which she does better than he does. If Sanders loses and she's your second choice, then you might as well jump right to your third choice. See I disagree with the second part of what you say here. Yes, Bernie is the surest bet. Yes, there are red flags with Liz, several of them. But I believe with the right Congress around her pushing a certain agenda constantly, pushed from behind by the same sort of mass action from voters we see now in opposing Trump, I think a lot of good could get done under a hypothetical Warren administration. It wouldn't be perfect, it would not be what Bernie would be, but it's not "well, basically the same as any of the other candidates at that point" as you say here IMO. She would take a lot more effort from us as voters to keep her honest and to fight for good policies over worse ones, but I believe that factor increases exponentially as you go down the line. Like a Harris presidency would do several objectively horrible things Warren's would not. There is another steep dropoff between her and "the rest."
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Jul 18, 2019 15:12
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Liz isn't going to get the "right Congress" around her because she has 0 interest in creating a movement the way Bernie does.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:15
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Oh Snapple! posted:Liz isn't going to get the "right Congress" around her because she has 0 interest in creating a movement the way Bernie does. Don't.....we...control that though? I mean she can choose to boost or not boost candidates but can't we as voters just sort of make that choice for her with mass action, canvassing and GOTV efforts? Like why not just plan on doing that no matter who gets the POTUS nom?
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Jul 18, 2019 15:20
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RuanGacho posted:Is this a bad time to support a Kaiju demolishing the white house so we can start fresh? https://twitter.com/teamgodzilla/status/706173622352781312
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Jul 18, 2019 15:21
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And presidential support makes that a lot more loving viable. My opinion is that the party is so bought and paid for that it's not actually possible without it. And a Warren presidency is not gonna give it.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:23
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VH4Ever posted:Don't.....we...control that though? I mean she can choose to boost or not boost candidates but can't we as voters just sort of make that choice for her with mass action, canvassing and GOTV efforts? Like why not just plan on doing that no matter who gets the POTUS nom? She wants to put consumer financial products on a spreadsheet and see what the number do with different amounts. If you want to build a movement around that then good luck lol
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Jul 18, 2019 15:31
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Ruminahui posted:She wants to put consumer financial products on a spreadsheet and see what the number do with different amounts. If you want to build a movement around that then good luck lol much like the romans found success by abandoning the rigidity of the phalanx and adopting marian's reforms, so too does the revolution need to embrace the flexibility of pivot tables
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Jul 18, 2019 15:38
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VH4Ever posted:See I disagree with the second part of what you say here. Yes, Bernie is the surest bet. Yes, there are red flags with Liz, several of them. But I believe with the right Congress around her pushing a certain agenda constantly, pushed from behind by the same sort of mass action from voters we see now in opposing Trump, I think a lot of good could get done under a hypothetical Warren administration. It wouldn't be perfect, it would not be what Bernie would be, but it's not "well, basically the same as any of the other candidates at that point" as you say here IMO. She would take a lot more effort from us as voters to keep her honest and to fight for good policies over worse ones, but I believe that factor increases exponentially as you go down the line. Like a Harris presidency would do several objectively horrible things Warren's would not. There is another steep dropoff between her and "the rest." I was talking about Williamson, not Warren. 
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Jul 18, 2019 15:50
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Warren is another Obama. She'll say a lot of the right things as long as she needs to, but always leaving wiggle room for when she backtracks so that her defenders can tweet "well TECHNICALLY" in response. She's already stated she's up for bid in the general and even her pledge to avoid big money interests in the primary has fallen by the wayside when it's convenient. She'll get into power, dismantle the vehicles she used to get there, and tell everyone to suck it up and enjoy their health care tax credits and rigorously means-tested debt forgiveness. And the wealthy, highly educated whites who are driving her campaign will cheer and go home, content to let President Liz handle things for eight years while they pretend everything is perfect now.VH4Ever posted:Don't.....we...control that though? I mean she can choose to boost or not boost candidates but can't we as voters just sort of make that choice for her with mass action, canvassing and GOTV efforts? Like why not just plan on doing that no matter who gets the POTUS nom? I don't think you can successfully maintain a broad, nationwide movement without someone in the White House using the bully pulpit to advocate for and champion said movement. Which is why Bernie is the only option because he's the one who is publicly and repeatedly stating that the fight doesn't end with replacing Trump.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:56
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warren has a plan to guarantee access to mobilizing as a base
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Jul 18, 2019 15:58
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VH4Ever posted:Don't.....we...control that though? I mean she can choose to boost or not boost candidates but can't we as voters just sort of make that choice for her with mass action, canvassing and GOTV efforts? Like why not just plan on doing that no matter who gets the POTUS nom? It would be a lot easier if the person with the national spotlight following her around helped. When you become the nominee there's attention that comes to you that you don't get as a candidate.
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Jul 18, 2019 16:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is Williamson going to make the cutoff for the second debate? All 20 people who made the cut off for the first debate made the cut off for the second. However once Swalwell admitted to the world that it was all a silly prank, that left one spot open. The teens piloting the husk of Gravel, and the Democratic Governor of Montana who doesn't have a cool dog then were in the running for that last spot. Unfortunately the Gravel teens couldn't trick enough pollsters to include Gravel in their polls, so governor no cool dog got in instead because he got at least 1% of respondents in enough polls to win the tie breaker.
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Jul 18, 2019 16:01
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https://twitter.com/adrienneelrod/status/1151850361302523904
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Jul 18, 2019 16:13
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Condiv posted:"considers x to be a threat" is a hypothetical threat solkanar. and your position is even weaker cause you can't show that williamson's presence in the race is increasing anti-vaxx sentiments. she apparently apologized and claimed she's not antivaxx so she doesn't even appear to be advocating in her campaign for the hypothetically dangerous position you're melting down over The World Health Organization doesn't deal with "hypotheticals", they deal in reality. This isn't some "numbers fuckstain" poo poo, this is reality. We're having massive outbreaks here in the United States and around the world. Williamson's "apology" was nothing more than typical anti-vaxx bullshit, then doubled down on it a few days later by calling the body of medical research on the topic "propaganda". Pay attention to the people who watch this poo poo on a regular basis. Follow some actual science writers, I already named Erin Biba and Jen Gunter, there are more out there who go into great deal about these issues on a regular basis. quote:meanwhile, as others have pointed out, plenty of actual candidates have advocated for policies that are non-hypothetical threats to public health. like war Why is it so odd? I see this woo bullshit on the left all the loving time where I live (PNW). I have a background in the biological sciences so when I hear this poo poo I'm going to say something. No one else is talking about it, we have folks giving themselves irony poisoning over it and she's polling around the same place Trump was at this time in the 2016 race. Furthermore, we shouldn't be tolerating anti-science and anti-intellectual attitudes on the left, regardless of their polling. It's bad enough when I see right wing assholes refuse their daughters the HPV vaccine because "my little darling WON"T BE HAVING SEX" but now we see this same poo poo from the left, even though several nations are close to eradicating the forms of cancer the vaccine prevents. quote:i'm not mad at you solkanar. i'm telling you you should calm down. marianne is a joke candidate. her ideas aren't gonna see adoption, she's not gonna be president, and she doesn't even seem to be advocating for anti-vaxx on the campaign trail Her ideas are already seeing adoption (look at the protests against anyone raising vaccination standards, the stigma against taking meds for treating mental health disorders and so on) and we shouldn't be giving her a free platform (either here on this forum or the debates) to spread this garbage and make money. There should be no tolerance for this sort of anti-intellectualism on the left. No, it's not as big of an issue as say systemic racism or economic equality or imperialism but if you don't stomp out her values you lose the ability to deal with everything else.
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Jul 18, 2019 16:14
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Big talk from a dude who is essentially a Golem conjured to crush American public education and the state of Palestine, animated only by AIPAC/NORPAC money. Did he condescend to actually name of any of these evil Berniebro donors?
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Jul 18, 2019 16:18
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LMAO please clarify that Corey.
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Jul 18, 2019 16:18
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Z. Autobahn posted:"Bernie is the only good candidate and everyone else is a monster" is a consistent and defensible stance. You don't have to defend loathsome creatures like Williamson just to stick it to the DNC. I wonder why people like you never use that kind of language for the people who will do everything in their power to continue, expand, and further the American empire. Pander posted:Like, I hope the Marianne mindsetters are just doing this bit strategically, to try and erode Warren's support in hopes it boosts Bernie. Y'know, endlessly screaming Warren's an imperialist without a good reason, trying to set up a dichotomy of "crystals vs war" as if that's actually a spectrum of debate outside of broken brains. Warren is an imperialist, and Marianne is more qualified than the vast majority of the Democratic primary. Terror Sweat posted:It's very simple. If you believe that foreigners lives are worth the same as any American's, then your second choice is the crazy crystal lady. If you believe American lives are worth more, then your number 2 is the republican. Because there's absolutely no way in hell that antivaxxers are killing more people than American foreign policy, and if we're taking both candidates at their words, Williamson is anti war, Warren is neutral to war at best Terror Sweat posted:Counterpoint, the fact that you don’t take American imperialism seriously is the problem here
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Jul 18, 2019 16:19
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