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Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


Chairman Capone posted:

If I recall right, I think all of the Daley Trilogy is meant to be set around the halfway mark of Crispin's final book.

I prefer the Daley trilogy but I think it's impressive how Crispin was able to basically synthesize every bit of detail on Han's life established by that point, from authors who had wildly different takes on the character and no consideration of fitting anything in with other authors, and not only did she work them all together but make a good story out of it.
I think you're right and that all takes place at points during Rebel Dawn. I really like both trilogies, and Crispin did a really good job fitting it all together. Most EU authors couldn't manage to get something cohesive put together that nice while being alive at the same time.

I think it's really funny that Crispin set down the reason for Han and Lando's falling out. Only for it to be superseded at least a couple of times. Zahn's Scoundrels moved it up to after ANH.

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galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!

Casimir Radon posted:

I think it's really funny that Crispin set down the reason for Han and Lando's falling out. Only for it to be superseded at least a couple of times. Zahn's Scoundrels moved it up to after ANH.

It's kinda charming if you take it as two guys who just can't stay mad at each other and repeatedly have drunken tear-filled apologies every weekend.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

galagazombie posted:

It's kinda charming if you take it as two guys who just can't stay mad at each other and repeatedly have drunken tear-filled apologies every weekend.

Which explains why Han would even go to Cloud City in the first place. And as it turned out, whatever grudge Lando did or didn't hold over losing the Falcon was peanuts compared to whatever else was going on.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


If the old EU would have continued I'm sure the reason for their falling out would have been superseded again.

Did we ever talk about this A More Civilized Age book? Supposed to be some essays about the behind the scenes of the EU. Seems to have decent ratings.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

Casimir Radon posted:

Did we ever talk about this A More Civilized Age book? Supposed to be some essays about the behind the scenes of the EU. Seems to have decent ratings.

I have it. The essays in it range from "truly excellent" to "terrible internet fanboy rant but printed on paper."

From memory, the really good ones were:

The essay on Shadows of the Empire, where the author actually interviewed almost everyone of note who was involved with SOTE so there's some genuine insight and behind the scenes stuff that you wont find elsewhere. This is definitely my favorite of the entries.

The Brian Daley essay, where again the author actually interviewed Daley (before he died) and uses the old interview as the basis for the article.

The essay on the Shakespearean Star Wars books, which was an interesting look at Shakespearean themes and how Star Wars can fit with them.

The Clone Wars: Secret Missions one where it's one of the only truly candid and in-depth behind the scenes glimpses at the making of an EU tie-in product.

The Canon Question one was interesting to me and probably a lot of people here as it looked at how the notion of "official canon" has shifted at Lucasfilm through the decades.

I remember the Rogue One and Myth of Redemptive Violence essays to at least be decent but not a lot about them.

On the other hand the absolute worst was the Crucible one because it's almost entirely just a rant about the Disney buyout and a bulletpoint list of every unresolved plot point from the EU. The NJO, Film Novelization, and Galaxies ones are pretty much just introduction articles on those books/games. The "Guardians of the Galaxy Far, Far Away" and Blue Harvest ones I remember being more about Guardians of the Galaxy and Family Guy than Star Wars.

The Nathan Butler entry on defending criticism of the EU I find to be really ironic given that I always found Butler to be one of the most uncritical knee-jerk defenders of the Star Wars Brand ever.

Van Dis
Jun 19, 2004

Chairman Capone posted:

The Nathan Butler entry on defending criticism of the EU I find to be really ironic given that I always found Butler to be one of the most uncritical knee-jerk defenders of the Star Wars Brand ever.

I want to read this one even though I don't know anything about this guy. Can you give a two-sentence summary of him vis-a-vis the EU?

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Chairman Capone posted:

The Nathan Butler entry on defending criticism of the EU I find to be really ironic given that I always found Butler to be one of the most uncritical knee-jerk defenders of the Star Wars Brand ever.

You obviously haven't listened to many of his podcasts then. He's very critical of the stuff he doesn't like. He usually will work in something like "If you are a completionist, there's nothing in here that'll make you actively hate owning this" but for his own personal thoughts he'll be critical.

Van Dis posted:

I want to read this one even though I don't know anything about this guy. Can you give a two-sentence summary of him vis-a-vis the EU?

His whole gimmick was running a star wars timlining project designed to place every EU story into one cohesive timeline; he got out of that game after he and his wife had a kid because dealing with laxer specific dating protocols in the new canon combined with "caring for a newborn" sucked a lot of the fun out of the job for him. He's also done some official EU work; was the author on one issue of Star Wars Tales and was the one to nail down specific in-universe dates for the events of Revenge of the Sith

jivjov fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 26, 2019

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

I have not listened to any of Butler's podcasts. I just remember him back in the day from his website and when he was active on the official site and TFN, probably a decade ago by now. I do remember he was a very strong Traviss defender back in that whole flare-up, too.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

The guy doing an animated adaptation of Dark Empire just a released a trailer with clear Episode IX inspiration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNF7qrqvGtg

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010

Chairman Capone posted:

I have it. The essays in it range from "truly excellent" to "terrible internet fanboy rant but printed on paper."

Is there a good book about the influence West End Games had on the EU? That, and a Making of the X-Wing/TIE Fighter and Jedi Knight game series would be very interesting to me.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Hannibal Rex posted:

Is there a good book about the influence West End Games had on the EU? That, and a Making of the X-Wing/TIE Fighter and Jedi Knight game series would be very interesting to me.

Barnes and Noble had an interesting history of the Star Wars EU from a publishing perspective. The first (and to a lesser extent second) articles talk about the influence of West End games.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Barnes and Noble had an interesting history of the Star Wars EU from a publishing perspective. The first (and to a lesser extent second) articles talk about the influence of West End games.

This was really interesting! Thanks for posting it.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
Finally working through more of Alphabet Squadron (Not that I wasn't enjoying it on release; I just got sidetracked with other things), and I'm pleased to report that the planet Thakwaa is now canonical. Gives me hope that somewhere out there in the new continuity, Runt is having fun being a pilot.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.
Runt died with the rest of the Republic military, either killed in the destruction of Hosnian Prime, or picked off with the rest of the Resistance in the Last Jedi.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Angry Salami posted:

Runt died with the rest of the Republic military, either killed in the destruction of Hosnian Prime, or picked off with the rest of the Resistance in the Last Jedi.

wait, almost the entire new republic military was on one planet??

the sequel trilogy's framing details completely defy trying to make sense of them, huh

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Jazerus posted:

wait, almost the entire new republic military was on one planet??

the sequel trilogy's framing details completely defy trying to make sense of them, huh

By the time of the ST, the New Republic military consisted of one fleet. The New Republic government didn't want to be Yet Another Empire, so they didn't have a big standing army like the GAR or the Imperial forces. Planets instead had local defense forces.

The fleet we see get destroyed in TFA was, in fact, the vast majority of the New Republic's official military might at that point.

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009

Jazerus posted:

wait, almost the entire new republic military was on one planet??

I imagine it like if Coruscant (as of TPM) had been wiped out. Pre-Clone-Wars, the Republic had basically no standing army or navy, leaving peacekeeping duties to the Jedi or the individual member planets' defense forces.

At the time of Hosnian Prime's destruction, the New Republic is in a similar situation. They've pared down the fleet to a single flotilla orbiting the planet, with probably an equal equivalent in ground forces. Member planets (greatly diminished in number compared to the Old Republic, with many worlds opting to remain independent and neutral post-Empire) have their own militaries, but most of them capitulate to the FO when they come rolling up. That's why there's no response to Leia's message in TLJ; everyone's either surrendered, dead, or dealing with planetary invasion.

edit: ah, jivjov got it

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
How big is the first order supposed to be? I kinda assumed it had a gently caress ton of territory on the outer most rim and in the unknown region and it had sleeper cells everywhere else. i know they are supposed to be more "spec ops" based than the og empire which was full shock and awe and massive numbers.

I mean i like FO on various levels, but their numbers and stuff are kinda overly vague at times. i mean i get they are the altright of the empire remnant but its alot less clear than the empire is.

HannibalBarca
Sep 11, 2016

History shows, again and again, how nature points out the folly of man.
My understanding is that to get even a little bit of context on what the First Order is and where it came from, you have to get cracking on the new EU books, comics, and video games; even that paints a somewhat incomplete picture from what I could tell, but they might have filled in some of the gaps in the past year or so.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

HannibalBarca posted:

My understanding is that to get even a little bit of context on what the First Order is and where it came from, you have to get cracking on the new EU books, comics, and video games; even that paints a somewhat incomplete picture from what I could tell, but they might have filled in some of the gaps in the past year or so.

the phasma book is meh and vague at it too. the battlefront 2 campaign touches on the idea that they just take kids from the outer rim and train them to be storm troopers and they took the idea from the jedi. other books kinda say they have tons of political support for imperial leaning dickheads.

from what i hear, the Sith troopers arnt even first order and that they are part of a new faction possibly with palpatine at the head. idk

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Broad strokes is that the First Order has large numbers thanks to Imperial stockpiles in the outer rim, kidnapping expeditions and black market financing that allows them to develop superweapons like the Mega class and Starkiller Base. They're not seen as a legitimate government, but they are the de facto power in the Outer Rim, Wild Space and parts of the Mid Rim where they operate mostly with impunity. With the New Republic Fleet and Hosnian Prime destroyed, they launched an immediate offensive against New Republic worlds that had no standing armies capable of standing up to their massive weapons stockpiles. They might not be Galactic Empire strong, but when their opponents only have picket fleets, they don't need a lot to push aside resistance.

There's also the fact that we're not going to get a full picture of how extensive the First Order is until the trilogy is finished because Disney is tight lipped about spoilers, to the point where they handicapped Battlefront 2's mediocre storyline for treading too close to the films. So while to me it should seem that losing an entire fleet and crippling a Mega Star Destroyer like in Last Jedi should be a death blow for the First Order's military might, more than likely we'll see them pull more vast fleets out of thin air so the stakes are higher for Ep 9.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Arcsquad12 posted:

Broad strokes is that the First Order has large numbers thanks to Imperial stockpiles in the outer rim, kidnapping expeditions and black market financing that allows them to develop superweapons like the Mega class and Starkiller Base. They're not seen as a legitimate government, but they are the de facto power in the Outer Rim, Wild Space and parts of the Mid Rim where they operate mostly with impunity. With the New Republic Fleet and Hosnian Prime destroyed, they launched an immediate offensive against New Republic worlds that had no standing armies capable of standing up to their massive weapons stockpiles. They might not be Galactic Empire strong, but when their opponents only have picket fleets, they don't need a lot to push aside resistance.

There's also the fact that we're not going to get a full picture of how extensive the First Order is until the trilogy is finished because Disney is tight lipped about spoilers, to the point where they handicapped Battlefront 2's mediocre storyline for treading too close to the films. So while to me it should seem that losing an entire fleet and crippling a Mega Star Destroyer like in Last Jedi should be a death blow for the First Order's military might, more than likely we'll see them pull more vast fleets out of thin air so the stakes are higher for Ep 9.

sounds about right. plus ep9 is gonna have a time jump between 8. idk how long though.

VaultAggie
Nov 18, 2010

Best out of 71?
Apparently there’s a new Thrawn book out? I was so disappointed by Alliances that I didn’t finish it, but maybe this one will be better?

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

VaultAggie posted:

Apparently there’s a new Thrawn book out? I was so disappointed by Alliances that I didn’t finish it, but maybe this one will be better?

Early launch at Comic Con, wide release next week

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009

https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule/status/1152381134694580224

Jim the Nickel
Mar 2, 2006


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me
Alphabet Squadron was... good!

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

So odd for an author to be sarcastic about his own future story

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Darth TNT posted:

So odd for an author to be sarcastic about his own future story

Huh? Where was he being sarcastic?

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



jivjov posted:

Huh? Where was he being sarcastic?

He wasn’t - the joke is that you can read the tweet as being sarcastic (“the one story everyone’s dying to see”).

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

Xenomrph posted:

He wasn’t - the joke is that you can read the tweet as being sarcastic (“the one story everyone’s dying to see”).

Exactly.
That was actually my first reading leaving me very confused for a second.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
People have been begging for more info on the Knights of Ren since TFA hit; like...that's not sarcasm, that's literally just him saying "hey that thing you wanted, it's happening!!"

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


jivjov posted:

People have been begging for more info on the Knights of Ren since TFA hit; like...that's not sarcasm, that's literally just him saying "hey that thing you wanted, it's happening!!"

it was a joke, on the comedy forums "something awful dot com"

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



jivjov posted:

People have been begging for more info on the Knights of Ren since TFA hit; like...that's not sarcasm, that's literally just him saying "hey that thing you wanted, it's happening!!"
Yeah that’s the joke, Soule wasn’t being sarcastic but Darth TNT was acting like he was.

Lake Jucas
Feb 20, 2011

WHAT OF OUR BARGAIN?
Ah yes, a "joke."

Preechr
May 19, 2009

Proud member of the Pony-Brony Alliance for Obama as President
Finished the new Thrawn book. Much better than Alliances.

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009

Preechr posted:

Finished the new Thrawn book. Much better than Alliances.

I love love love that Krennic has a squad of sycophantic underlings who dress exactly like him

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Found a neat thing. Since Jeremy Soule composed the music for both Knights of the Old Republic and The Elder Scrolls, I actually discovered he remixed a few of his KOTOR tracks into the Skyrim soundtrack. If you listen to the Skyrim theme "Distant Horizons" you can here traces of Bastila Shan's theme from KOTOR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uusRIazEdg
You can hear Bastila's theme around the 1-minute mark.

For reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeoGAKXsMjE

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

That's pretty cool. I remember one of the Mass Effect games used some old game themes as some of the nightclub tracks.

Actually, now this makes me think, what Star Wars game has the best score? KOTOR would probably be a contender, since it's A) Almost entirely free of John Williams music, but B) still sounds like something immediately evocative of Williams' score.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
It's a three way tie between Kotor 2, Republic Commando and Force Unleashed. Jesse Harlin did the latter two and Mark Griskey did the former. I'd also add Tie Fighter there as a close fourth for having kickass MIDI music. RepCom and Force Unleashed 1 have their fair share of Williams music, but Harlin's original tracks own. Griskey's Sith Lords soundtrack is phenomenal and captures the more subdued elements of Star Wars music that often get overlooked, and he does it while maintaining a unique sound that could only really exist in the story Kotor 2 tells.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS57jatgn_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6KIR5gg5L0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob8n7xYigOI

I love the KOTOR 1 soundtrack at points, but I also have a few issues with Soule's style, where I find he relies way to heavily on a big brass section and ethereal sounding strings, and it doesn't always work for me.

Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Aug 21, 2019

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Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


KOTOR I & II have more in the way of original music than any other SW game I can think of. Almost every other game just uses variations of stuff from the movies.

Now if you want soundtrack reuse, Hans Zimmer ripped off one of the tracks he did for Gladiator and used it for POTC. It ended up becoming far more associated with the latter.

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