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EwokEntourage posted:The person I was responding to was talking about the American system. He mentioned 90 day speedy trial for misdemeanors in American. I made an unqualified Statement about that which i later walked Back. He then said it was better to abolish cash bail entirely, to force the rich to confront the criminal justice system, presumably in the context of the American justice system, as that’s what we were talking about. I responded. It’s all in the American context bc that’s what we were discussing in that back and forth. Ok that's fair enough.
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Jul 20, 2019 06:31
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Don't really have to worry about 2020 unless it's like, Biden. And even then then dem base is way more mobilized and focused than in 2016. If you're talking about Minnesota specifically, then I have no idea. If you're talking about the election as a whole, this is loving stupid - we barely stand a chance. He's incumbent and the economy is good for rich people.
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Jul 20, 2019 06:38
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SocketWrench posted:No worries, I didn't think otherwise. It's just I can't help but be amazed how much these morons back openly bad things that will burn them and then are totally shocked they got burned. Yea the American legal system is a nightmare because it’s designed to punish minorities and poor people as much as possible. Cash bail is part and parcel of that systemic oppression. Cash bail should be abolished in favor of better pre trial release procedures. All I was really trying to say is pre trial release should be advanced as much as possible. Sweden, by law and practice, doesn’t do that for flight risks, even tho it’s entirely possible. As a whole, Sweden’s system is certainly better, but that doesn’t put it above reproach. keeping rocky in jail when there are several reasonable measures you could take to keep him in the country is bad, regardless of how good the rest of it is. Cash bail is still better than keeping anyone and everyone in jail pending trial tho and anyone arguing otherwise is wrong quote:Probably call it quits on either the drinking or the posting for tonight. EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 06:47
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Petr posted:If you're talking about Minnesota specifically, then I have no idea. If you're talking about the election as a whole, this is loving stupid - we barely stand a chance. He's incumbent and the economy is good for rich people. He's deep underwater in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and the economy being good for rich people isn't going to flip any state that went blue last time. People who think the economy or the loving laughable incumbency advantage are going to save Trump sound as delusional as Trump's own tweets. Especially when this "good," economy could very easily cost him Iowa. What might save him is Maine's stupid EC rules and Wisconsin chuds, because if he loses MI and Penn and wins that one dumb vote from Maine and all the other states he did before, that's exactly 270. If he doesn't get that one vote it's a tie. Then again in the event of a tie the vote goes to the House, but the vote works by the majority of each state's delegation earning you one point and first to 26 wins. I think in that event we're loving doomed, although I know there are some R-state delegations that are majority D.
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Jul 20, 2019 07:17
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Nonsense posted:ASAP Rocky belongs behind bars for 25 years. Look, I'm as unhappy as anybody about how he ruined Selena Gomez' "Good For You", but this seems a little extreme...
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Jul 20, 2019 07:35
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EwokEntourage posted:Cash bail is still better than keeping anyone and everyone in jail pending trial tho and anyone arguing otherwise is wrong hi actually this is bad and wrong
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Jul 20, 2019 07:38
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Nocturtle posted:JFC I just learned about "stand your ground" laws thanks to your post and now I'm even more appalled by this stupid country. how the gently caress old were you in 2012 and how did you get your parents' credit card
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Jul 20, 2019 07:42
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The ASAP Rocky case has caused some amazing things, like US ex-ambassador to Sweden trying to contact the royal family to get them to free Rocky and complaining how it will decrease Sweden's standing in the eyes of the world if they won't do it.
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Jul 20, 2019 08:20
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Petr posted:how the gently caress old were you in 2012 and how did you get your parents' credit card Goodness people, we have a lot of political neophytes coming into awareness of American politics for the first time in their lives and they are using this thread as a resource. This was a question clearly asked in good faith, even if it is extremely common knowledge among regulars in this thread. There's no reason to jump all over someone like this for a genuine question being asked in good faith.
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Jul 20, 2019 08:22
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not a bot posted:The ASAP Rocky case has caused some amazing things, like US ex-ambassador to Sweden trying to contact the royal family to get them to free Rocky and complaining how it will decrease Sweden's standing in the eyes of the world if they won't do it. If we can't rely on Carl XVI Gustaf, then the world is truly doomed.
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Jul 20, 2019 08:52
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Prester Jane posted:Goodness people, we have a lot of political neophytes coming into awareness of American politics for the first time in their lives and they are using this thread as a resource. This was a question clearly asked in good faith, even if it is extremely common knowledge among regulars in this thread. There's no reason to jump all over someone like this for a genuine question being asked in good faith. Fair enough, I'm sorry, ILU little postmillennial. Godspeed.
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Jul 20, 2019 08:55
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GreyjoyBastard posted:If we can't rely on Carl XVI Gustaf, then the world is truly doomed. Agreed, if a rocket launcher can't free an American from prison, what tool possibly could?
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Jul 20, 2019 09:31
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Another reason Sweden doesn't need a bail system is that the Swedish police do not arrest people for traffic stops or other trivial reasons like in the US. They also have a national police force with a unified database which means that it's much less likely to have a situation where the police arrest you because of mistaken identity because you happen to have the same last name and DOB as someone with an outstanding warrant. On another note, internet poisoning must have got me because I am actually glad Trump has taken up the false anti-semitism accusations because it is now rendering that particular line of attack radioactive for Reasonable People
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Jul 20, 2019 10:00
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GreyjoyBastard posted:If we can't rely on Carl XVI Gustaf, then the world is truly doomed. only Trump could go to Sweden
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Jul 20, 2019 10:06
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Pellisworth posted:only Trump could go to Sweden Only Trump could open diplomatic relations with Jeffrey Epstein's Island
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Jul 20, 2019 10:11
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Unlike in the American comedy show justice system, in Sweden there is no bail as such, instead it can be described as 'everyone basically gets bail for free', unless they're a danger to society or a flight risk. It has the side effect that millionaire celebrities don't necessarily get a free pass, while the poors get too stay behind bars waiting for trial, which apparently is a grave injustice to some ITT. Also, since the state prosecutes violent crimes, regardless of whether the victim wants to or not, no amount of paying off the victims will stop the a trial. If it seems unfair that rich people can't pay their way out of beating up YOUNG ADULTS, then I would argue that it's not actually a problem with the Swedish justice system but rather the idea that rich people should be able to get away with anything they want. The good news is that whatever time is spent in jail now, will be subtracted from the final sentence. Which could be like 3-6 months I think (ianal though), and may end up just being probation, iirc that is often the case for first time offenders, but it's less likely since it's assault/violence. No, it's not self defense if you're punching and stomping someone who is on the ground in a defensive posture, and no, it does matter if the YOUNG ADULTS were 'totally asking for it', just like it doesn't matter if the girl was being a real cocktease and was wearing a short skirt. That said, mitigating circumstance is feeling threatened, and I think previous altercations and so on. Aggravating circumstance can be group violence, attacking someone while they're down/defenseless, using a weapon, if the victims are minors (which they weren't, afaik, just writing things that are often considered aggravating) and so on. e;fine Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 10:12
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Pellisworth posted:only Trump could go to Sweden Please god no. I’m an American living in Sweden - this whole situation is sour as is. When I gotta contend with this, you just give up. Even if Sweden is doing what is legally necessary which is fine, i think (ugh) both sides (UGH) have a lot of points that are going past one another, or aren’t being fully comprehended. At this point the only person who I’m with on this is Leif GW.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:16
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teen witch posted:Please god no. I’m an American living in Sweden - this whole situation is sour as is. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/only_Nixon_could_go_to_China
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Jul 20, 2019 10:22
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Yeah, hence the “please god no” - I too stayed awake in AP US.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:23
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teen witch posted:Yeah, hence the “please god no” - I too stayed awake in AP US. ok so, who are the prominent female Swedish politicians our big moist baby are going to call "nasty" for voicing opposition to this?
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Jul 20, 2019 10:26
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Unlike in the American comedy show justice system, in Sweden there is no bail as such, instead it can be described as 'everyone basically gets bail for free', unless they're a danger to society or a flight risk. It has the side effect that millionaire celebrities don't necessarily get a free pass, while the poors get too stay behind bars waiting for trial, which apparently is a grave injustice to some ITT. Also, since the state prosecutes violent crimes, regardless of whether the victim wants to or not, no amount of paying off the victims will stop the a trial. If it seems unfair that rich people can't pay their way out of beating up kids, then I would argue that it's not actually a problem with the Swedish justice system but rather the idea that rich people should be able to get away with anything they want. Can you show me any evidence that the victim was a minor? I'm serious, Google isn't showing up with anything. If he wasn't actually a kid then your post is super disinenuous.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:27
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Pellisworth posted:ok so, who are the prominent female Swedish politicians our big moist baby is going to call "nasty" for voicing opposition to this? Essentially all of them minus morons from KD or SD - maybe a jerk from L. Plenty of various Swedish famous women though to make it up though.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:31
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Mummy Xzibit posted:Can you show me any evidence that the victim was a minor? I'm serious, Google isn't showing up with anything. No, I don't think they were minors, I also don't think a weapon was used, I was writing things that are typically considered aggravating circumstances. I said kids, because they were clearly a couple of kids in the video. Want me to go back and change it to young adults? Jfc.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:36
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teen witch posted:Even if Sweden is doing what is legally necessary which is fine, i think (ugh) both sides (UGH) have a lot of points that are going past one another, or aren’t being fully comprehended. At this point the only person who I’m with on this is Leif GW. The same GW who is gay-shaming the prosecutor?  Roland Jones posted:That's a better argument to have. In which case, I think that here it's not a great call on their part. Though I'm not familiar with A$AP himself or if he has a history that would imply he's a flight risk, rather than just being a foreign, black guy and that being enough for whoever got to decide this. From what I saw of the conversation earlier it seemed like MiddleOne was saying "is not from our country" is a perfectly acceptable reason in and of itself, which seems... Uh. Bad. It's not an evaluation of his character, the fact that he's a foreign citizen (yes even EU citizens get flagged by this) means he's by legal definition, and precedential rulings in the highest court, automatically defined as a flight risk. Exceptions are extremely rare, ASAP is basically getting the same treatment as anyone else would under investigation for a crime that could result in prison time. Also if you don't see how and why the opportunity cost for fleeing is different for a citizen versus a foreign citizen then I don't know what to tell you.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:38
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MiddleOne posted:The same GW who is gay-shaming the prosecutor? Ughhhh goddamnit - not shocked though.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:39
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teen witch posted:Essentially all of them minus morons from KD or SD - maybe a jerk from L. Plenty of various Swedish famous women though to make it up though. what's your guess on the likelihood of: 1) Swedish politicians dig in their heels and refuse to submit to Daddy, triggering an extended early morning Twitter rant then everyone forgets about it a week from now vs 2) we live in the worst possible timeline where the Swedish PM gives in, Trump and Kanye gloat about it for a few days until Trump is distracted by Kim Jong Un's sleek new haircut. Many people are saying it's the peoples' hair! Kim Jong Un, he has hair. The best hair. I've often said, Korean people, they're really great you see. We have 30,000 troops stationed in Korea. Who knew? 30,000 soldiers, folks. And their general, he came to me with tears in his eyes and said "Sir... Kim Jong Un's new haircut is dashing." So handsome, like out of central casting.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:42
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MiddleOne posted:The same GW who is gay-shaming the prosecutor? Liberace? GW up to date on that teen slang I see.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:51
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Pellisworth posted:2) we live in the worst possible timeline where the Swedish PM gives in, Trump and Kanye gloat about it for a few days until Trump is distracted by Kim Jong Un's sleek new haircut.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:55
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Eschenique posted:Liberace? GW up to date on that teen slang I see. It's the laziest obfuscation of homophobia I've ever seen.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:56
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Martian posted:What? Politicians cannot influence decisions made by the judiciary, the PM has no influence on wether or not anyone will be released. You know, seperation of powers and all that stuff. I'm glad to hear Sweden still has functional separation of powers, it's been pretty well eroded here in the US, hence my joking cynicism
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Jul 20, 2019 11:08
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Unlike in the American comedy show justice system, in Sweden there is no bail as such, instead it can be described as 'everyone basically gets bail for free', unless they're a danger to society or a flight risk. It has the side effect that millionaire celebrities don't necessarily get a free pass, while the poors get too stay behind bars waiting for trial, which apparently is a grave injustice to some ITT. I think it's a stretch to say ASAP Rocky is a flight risk. He's touring all over Europe during the summer and if he decided to gently caress off back to US, he could still be extradited and even if not taking that into account he'd be caught when visiting any European country anyway. To me keeping him in jail for now seems more like a PR thing, not wanting to get accused of giving celebrities a pass.
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Jul 20, 2019 11:29
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And here I thought dipshit wanted only sweeds to immigrate to the US.
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Jul 20, 2019 12:09
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not a bot posted:I think it's a stretch to say ASAP Rocky is a flight risk. He's touring all over Europe during the summer and if he decided to gently caress off back to US, he could still be extradited and even if not taking that into account he'd be caught when visiting any European country anyway. To me keeping him in jail for now seems more like a PR thing, not wanting to get accused of giving celebrities a pass. It's literally the law. Even EU-citizens get designated as flight risks. EDIT: MiddleOne posted:It's not an evaluation of his character, the fact that he's a foreign citizen (yes even EU citizens get flagged by this) means he's by legal definition, and precedential rulings in the highest court, automatically defined as a flight risk. Exceptions are extremely rare, ASAP is basically getting the same treatment as anyone else would under investigation for a crime that could result in prison time. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 12:14
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Revelation 2-13 posted:No, I don't think they were minors, I also don't think a weapon was used, I was writing things that are typically considered aggravating circumstances. I said kids, because they were clearly a couple of kids in the video. Want me to go back and change it to young adults? Jfc. Yeah, I actually do. Kids are minors when you talk about crime. Invoking them doesn't do this situation any justice. Lots of people call 30 year olds kids, but of course that's semantic. There's an age of majority (18) in Sweden and it's ridiculous to ignore it for any sake, let alone to defend the inciting party in a case of self-defense. Jfc. Zisky fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 12:14
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https://twitter.com/noamscheiber/status/1152364533186519041
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Jul 20, 2019 12:45
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDona...23post496866400
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Jul 20, 2019 12:47
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every time i think he can't sink to a new low he just effortlessly does lmfao
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Jul 20, 2019 12:48
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Mummy Xzibit posted:Yeah, I actually do. Kids are minors when you talk about crime. Invoking them doesn't do this situation any justice. Lots of people call 30 year olds kids, but of course that's semantic. Hey if you're talking to someone from Sweden maybe you should rub a few brain-cells together and realize English probably isn't their first language so the linguistic subtlety between "kid" and "young adult" may not be so obvious when Americans use "kid" to refer to anyone younger than them all the drat time. Then maybe you can take a deep breath and not be a loving dick.
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Jul 20, 2019 13:02
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Wow, wierd how this seems to be a systemic problem in American law enforcement with this  I wonder what it is the US is doing to empower corrupt cops with para military/ racist mentalities. What could possibly be doing that?! A true mystery for the ages!
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Jul 20, 2019 13:07
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Jarmak posted:Hey if you're talking to someone from Sweden maybe you should rub a few brain-cells together and realize English probably isn't their first language so the linguistic subtlety between "kid" and "young adult" may not be so obvious when Americans use "kid" to refer to anyone younger than them all the drat time. Then maybe you can take a deep breath and not be a loving dick. Swedes are incredibly good at English and the Swedish language pretty much have similar kid/young adult distinctions.
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Jul 20, 2019 13:08
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