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nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
this client requires on-site technology assistance and i am remote so i am also dealing with an unpaid middleman who's having to handle the printing and negotiate everything and all three of us are naturally very highly strung, at the moment he is more highly strung than i am because he lives on her street and when something goes wrong she immediately goes and knocks on his door at ten o'clock at night

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nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
he is also the man she intends me to marry and he is openly terrified of me

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
for some reason the creative chemistry between the three of us is just really extraordinary and we produce great work together, even under these conditions and possibly because of them

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
also i'm drunk, i was already drunk when the last-minute issues came through and i have only become drunker since, which i believe is adding to his stress

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Should get him drunk as well, it can only help!

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry
I used to have a HP printer and there wasn't a single instance of printing anything without having to problemsolve for errors, for compatibility, colour/clarity issues, the blue toner vanishing into thin air after two prints, etc. I hated having to print anything because I knew I had to gather my whole self into a bag of patience and reserve at least half an hour for what should be a 2-min job. I would have paid to have someone else print poo poo for me. After I unceremoniously abandoned it amongst other problem garbage, it had left behind one million HP programs for completely unneeded functions. As a final gently caress YOU, each one required an instant restart after uninstalling or it would refuse to uninstall.

Then I got a Canon. Not a single problem. Can recommend. Tell them to toss their HP printer.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Hah, my experience is the reverse! Bullshit bloatware, weird setup issues, all of it. My HP is so much better than my canon one, just plug-n-play.

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747

Sharpest Crayon posted:

I used to have a HP printer and there wasn't a single instance of printing anything without having to problemsolve for errors, for compatibility, colour/clarity issues, the blue toner vanishing into thin air after two prints, etc. I hated having to print anything because I knew I had to gather my whole self into a bag of patience and reserve at least half an hour for what should be a 2-min job. I would have paid to have someone else print poo poo for me. After I unceremoniously abandoned it amongst other problem garbage, it had left behind one million HP programs for completely unneeded functions. As a final gently caress YOU, each one required an instant restart after uninstalling or it would refuse to uninstall.
this is what is happening and i know it sounds like it would cause fewer problems but it is not the case, professional printers do not do customer service for one-off jobs, they don't need us and they let us know that

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry
Moral of the story: have a friend with a canon and hp printers who wouldn't mind walking a mile without even getting a hug.

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
project update. the client is indignant because she deliberately got our printing and technical support guy on the phone with me last night and all he did was talk about the templates and didn't ask me out. he left the country today, i took over printing and tech support remotely and managed to charm a discount out of the man with the actual physical printing machines today while talking about two files that needed to be re-designed, a beautiful proof was produced, the design is an object in the world now and i am very excited

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
this is why i can't do actual proper money-earning freelance design, i only have the energy for one project every few months

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747
the finished product (a cd) was perfect in every way and now i have a copy to show off in interviews, being able to say i was involved with every step of the process

the printing guy and the client, who were on bad terms at the point that i got involved, have hugged and prayed it out. a beautiful friendship has been born. my intended husband is still in canada. the client now wants a personal website, i am encouraging her wholeheartedly as a friend but semi-pretending not to know anything about online or social media (this is somewhat true, i despise the screen), but hallelujah! the printing guy, her new beautiful friend, who coincidentally also lives right around the corner, dabbles in web design and now he's very interested

the lord works in mysterious ways

a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010

Someday I'll finally learn how to draw a nose


Sharpest Crayon posted:

Then I got a Canon. Not a single problem. Can recommend. Tell them to toss their HP printer.
this is so fuckin true

durrneez
Feb 20, 2013

I like fish. I like to eat fish. I like to brush fish with a fish hairbrush. Do you like fish too?
I was a scientist for a long time but ended up not liking how monotonous my job was. I love arts and crafts and really want to become a creative. I’m 31 and feel like... i’m too old to start, that I’ll never be as good as I want to be. The path of least resistance says I should keep sciencing but i hate it.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

durrneez posted:

I’m 31 and feel like... i’m too old to start,

lol

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



durrneez posted:

I’m 31 and feel like... i’m too old to start

I started learning when I was 27 and didn't seriously start picking it up until I was 28. You'll be fine. Like any skill, you'll get from it as much as you give. If you can fully dedicate yourself to truly mastering the essentials, you can start producing good art within a year or two.

I think what tends to stop people isn't that the fundamentals of art require a lifetime to grasp, but that the subjectivity and abstractness of the creative arts is inherently frustrating when you're trying to learn it. There's no real "correct" answers you can compare yours to, and concepts like gesture and design are largely based upon personal perceptions instead of a universal standard. In this regard, maturity and patience are far better aids for learning than youthful vigor. Man creates art with his brain, not his hands.

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Hello Fatty!


Fun Shoe

durrneez posted:

I was a scientist for a long time but ended up not liking how monotonous my job was. I love arts and crafts and really want to become a creative. I’m 31 and feel like... i’m too old to start, that I’ll never be as good as I want to be. The path of least resistance says I should keep sciencing but i hate it.

Where do you live? What kind of creative do you want to be? Are you already creating stuff or are you just starting to learn? As much as I want to tell you to quit and follow your dream I also know that it's kind of brutal out there and that art is notoriously low paying because normies think you don't deserve to get paid for your work if you enjoyed it in any way. If you're in the US then you may want try the filthy hobbyist route for a while until you get some money flowing and feel confident that you can make it on your own.

E: Also gently caress OFF with feeling too old to start something new at ~31~. You have more than enough time to learn and if your art/crafts/whatever are good people will want to make use of your skills regardless of whether you're 27 or 72. It's just a question of whether or not you want to sacrifice a stable paycheck for a decade or two to make that happen (which I'm a bit reluctant to tell people to do that right before Great Depression II: We Learned Literally Nothing starts).

readingatwork fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jul 21, 2019

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry

durrneez posted:

I was a scientist for a long time but ended up not liking how monotonous my job was. I love arts and crafts and really want to become a creative. I’m 31 and feel like... i’m too old to start, that I’ll never be as good as I want to be. The path of least resistance says I should keep sciencing but i hate it.

Start as a hobby. It's actually easier to start when you're an adult 'cause you can grasp concepts quicker and you've already developed some motor skills.
Remember that if you want to make money doing arts and crafts, you might find mass-producing arts or crafts to sell gets just as monotonous as any other job, and that you might not find designing and producing art that would sell as much fun as when you're doing it just for yourself. In a perfect world, you'd obviously be doing unique pieces just for yourself that you'd sell for millions, but that's literally all of us. Art's good in that there's no "I'm too old for this and I'll never reach heights" limit like there is for sport. As long as you've got one working limb, or even just your mouth, you're good to go and improve until you die.

Personally, I love arts, I love crafts, but I absolutely loathe it when I need to ~* design*~ for a specific purpose, and it always comes out terrible because I can't get my heart in it. That's why pretty much the only commissions I do is pet portraits, 'cause I never get tired of painting pets.
You don't need to do art for a job for it to enrich your life. If it takes off, great! THEN quit your job. Before that, turn off your brain during work, think of yourself as not a scientist but an artist who happens to work at science, and keep the terrible job.

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Vermain posted:

Man creates art with his brain, not his hands.

This reminds me of something I've been thinking about : what are good craft options for someone with mediocre manual dexterity? I want to take up some kind of physical craft again, but I have big ham hands and tend to do badly at anything requiring really fine dexterity. (I also get frustrated easily, but that I figure I just need to get over.)

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




durrneez posted:

i’m too old to start, that I’ll never be as good as I want to be.

"I'm too X, I'll never be as good as I want to be" is there for every single artist. Everyone's got some disadvantage, you just gotta roll with it and do what you can.

Antivehicular, you sound like someone who'd enjoy metalwork. Beat the poo poo outta stuff and play with fire. Generally large-scale stuff needs less fine dexterity, so go big!

nankeen
Mar 20, 2019

by Cyrano4747

Antivehicular posted:

This reminds me of something I've been thinking about : what are good craft options for someone with mediocre manual dexterity? I want to take up some kind of physical craft again, but I have big ham hands and tend to do badly at anything requiring really fine dexterity. (I also get frustrated easily, but that I figure I just need to get over.)
how are you with clay? earthenware clay (raku and terracotta) is a very forgiving medium and you can make lovely-looking pieces working roughly until your dexterity develops. which it will, being a practice thing (that's why getting into craft is a great idea!)

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry

Antivehicular posted:

This reminds me of something I've been thinking about : what are good craft options for someone with mediocre manual dexterity? I want to take up some kind of physical craft again, but I have big ham hands and tend to do badly at anything requiring really fine dexterity. (I also get frustrated easily, but that I figure I just need to get over.)

Woodcraft is also great! You do need some accuracy if you want to finish with a see-through laquer but for a beginner, wood/plaster filler and a coat of paint will hide all your sins. Woodcraft is for people who look at a shelf in IKEA and go "I'm not paying loving 250euros for a piece of board, I'm making my own". The tools can get costly, but are built to last, so you can often get them for a good price used. Plus, all the tools are built for man-hands and are actually difficult to use if you got tiny dainty babyhands.

Mirage
Oct 27, 2000

All is for the best, in this, the best of all possible worlds
The problem is less "I have big ol' crusher hands and can't do anything right" and more "I haven't done enough to train my fine motor skills."

It's a skill. Skills aren't inborn. Eventually you just get a feel for things, and the more you do it, the easier it gets.

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007

durrneez posted:

I was a scientist for a long time but ended up not liking how monotonous my job was. I love arts and crafts and really want to become a creative. I’m 31 and feel like... i’m too old to start, that I’ll never be as good as I want to be. The path of least resistance says I should keep sciencing but i hate it.

I had a long post typed up about this but then my browser ate it. This version probably isn't as well written but whatever.

99% of all creatives never feel like they're good enough, even very famous and well-regarded ones. So you've already got the attitude down perfect, find an art/craft to try out and get going! Age means nothing, and the physical skills to master an art or craft are relatively quick to develop - the best creatives aren't necessarily the ones with the most impressive physical skills, but rather the ones that can navigate the artist's dilemma of figuring out which ideas to develop further and finish and which to leave in the sketch/rough draft phase. The "thirty under thirty" mentality is really unhealthy and unrealistic. Many, many artists that you know and love didn't start until your age or later - sometimes much, much later. Here's just one quick article I found about late-starting artists: https://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/late-blooming-artists.

That being said, how you define "become a creative" is going to determine how much enjoyment you'll get out of this. If you mean "making only things I want to make and making my entire living off of that" then I've got some bad news, very, very few people actually get to do that. Even immensely popular, well-regarded artists have to spend the early portions of their careers working other jobs to support their art habit - there's no way to really just jump in and immediately go full-time unless you are insanely rich or you have insanely rich parents. Sometimes you can use your skills to make your money, but the majority of the jobs that actually pay well just aren't that interesting. 90% of my income right now comes from going branded toy package design or supplemental artwork for homeschool programs; these jobs are technically creative but aren't all that interesting, nor the kin of work I would like to do. They are easy to find and pay well enough to allow my family to eat, however.

If you want to at least make part of your income from your creative endeavors, I would recommend finding an art or craft that you want to pursue, and do that on the evenings/weekends until you reach a point where you can potentially start replacing some income from sciencing with it. This'll take a long time, and how feasible depends on what medium you work in and how serious you are about regularly producing new content. If all you need is something to break up the monotony of your day job, then you can do that without having to worry about the money aspect and have what most artists dream about : total creative freedom and a steady paycheck :homebrew:

Doing a creative job full-time also really changes your relationship to that thing, as well - after spending 8 hours a day drawing stuff for other people I often just don't have the energy or time to do the stuff I want to do (see all my failed attempts in the Art Dome thread for proof of that). Once a thing becomes a job you HAVE to do, it changes whether you WANT to do it quite a bit.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Public service announcement:

Hand-pressing 18x24” sucks. Don’t do it.

That is all.

a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010

dupersaurus posted:

Public service announcement:

Hand-pressing 18x24” sucks. Don’t do it.

That is all.
unless you're a big ol masochist. lol

saphirecalypso
Jul 23, 2019

by FactsAreUseless
I am always willing to enjoy chatting about art. Would it be helpful to have an IRC?

I am new to these forums.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









saphirecalypso posted:

I am always willing to enjoy chatting about art. Would it be helpful to have an IRC?

I am new to these forums.



Sure, set one up if you like. What is with the missing person notice? It seems a little random.

saphirecalypso
Jul 23, 2019

by FactsAreUseless

sebmojo posted:

Sure, set one up if you like. What is with the missing person notice? It seems a little random.

Oh, i am sorry. I will take it down.

I will see if I still have control of an IRC server and share the details.

saphirecalypso
Jul 23, 2019

by FactsAreUseless
Confirmed.

saphirecalypso fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jul 24, 2019

durrneez
Feb 20, 2013

I like fish. I like to eat fish. I like to brush fish with a fish hairbrush. Do you like fish too?
Thanks for all the constructive feedback. My age insecurity was pretty frivolous in hindsight.

I talked it over with the husband and we're making space in our budget for me to take a few art classes at the local art museum if I want. I'm already on Skillshare and am trying to get the most out of that option first since it's cheaper. We recently moved and I had to quit my job. He's been very supportive and told me that this is my chance to start over--which is incredibly scary yet freeing. My plan is to find a part-time job and then learn and hone some art skills and start small as a hobbyist, as some of you mentioned. I really enjoyed this Jerry Saltz article and maybe you will too.

Vermain posted:

Man creates art with his brain, not his hands.

This really spoke to me.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:
the other day someone pointed out to me that the top of the sky is a lot closer to you than it is at the horizon, and suddenly a lot of things made sense

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Al! posted:

the other day someone pointed out to me that the top of the sky is a lot closer to you than it is at the horizon, and suddenly a lot of things made sense

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nILOHp79njQ

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

I'd be interested in some feedback for this clip if someone would be willing to provide any. I'm pretty happy with it from the aspect of the camera tracking working well, but I'm not really satisfied with how the turns at the 2 and 4 second marks have turned out. Any tips would be appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdqHNoYvz0

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




The turns look way too sudden to me - I'm not an aircraft-knower, but they look like they've not got any momentum or weight.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Warbird posted:

I'd be interested in some feedback for this clip if someone would be willing to provide any. I'm pretty happy with it from the aspect of the camera tracking working well, but I'm not really satisfied with how the turns at the 2 and 4 second marks have turned out. Any tips would be appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdqHNoYvz0

There’s no transition between not turning and turning: it just snaps from one to another. A real airplane will roll into the turn before it even begins (yours are turning before they even roll), and how steep the roll is determines how sharp the turn is. (Edit: the turn isn’t caused by the roll, it’s caused by pulling on the elevator after you’ve established the roll angle.) There will also be easing into the turn — it doesn’t instantly go from 0% to 100% — and the nose will likely be moving into the turn ahead of the plane’s motion.

Watch some real airplanes doing those moves.

dupersaurus fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jul 28, 2019

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

I think I'll go back and offset the XY translation (local to the planes) by a frame or two after the roll and see how that looks. I was hoping that the curves of the animation line doohickey could help with the between frames, but that's clearly not the case. The easing into the turn should be able to be addressed via adjusting some curves though. I think/hope. I still don't really have a handle on the toolset quite yet.

lofi posted:

The turns look way too sudden to me - I'm not an aircraft-knower, but they look like they've not got any momentum or weight.

Any tips or recommended reading on how to implement this sort of thing off the top of your head?

Warbird fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 29, 2019

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002

I

AM

MAGNIFICENT






just watch an intro to physics lecture or something so you can learn about acceleration vs. velocity and what not.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Warbird posted:

Any tips or recommended reading on how to implement this sort of thing off the top of your head?

The animators survival guide is the traditional goto, it's dealing with traditional animation but I imagine a lot of the principles are the same. Animation isn't really my thing so I can't help much I'm afraid. Dupersauruses advice sounds about right to me.

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gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007

Warbird posted:

I'd be interested in some feedback for this clip if someone would be willing to provide any. I'm pretty happy with it from the aspect of the camera tracking working well, but I'm not really satisfied with how the turns at the 2 and 4 second marks have turned out. Any tips would be appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xdqHNoYvz0

Dupersaurus hit the problem on the nose - your current turns and flight paths are ignoring how airplanes turn and change orientation in real life. Turning in an airplane requires quite a bit of planning and setup, and looks different based on whether the plane is changing pitch, rotation, yaw, or any combination of those. Your turns lack any kind of setup from the plane, so they look unnatural.

I can't tell you how to get the animation you want perfect, but if it's within your budget I'd suggest loading up some kind of realistic flight simulator on your computer and switching to an external camera while you do the turns you want to animate - that should give you a very clear idea of what kind of movements and preparation are needed for a plane to actually turn. Also, air show footage on youtube would be a good place to start researching as well.

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