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cool my touchpad settings are only correctly applied one in four reboots. desktop linux ftw
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Jul 22, 2019 05:38
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Athas posted:Arch is 2018. Run NixOS. nixos has some neat ideas but it also breaks really basic stuff like mtime to achieve its ends. last I tried nixos, virtualenv didn’t work because of the mtime on system installed being set to epoch and to the nixos devs this was just impossible to solve, somehow. also the docs are poo poo and it’s so different from every other distro that you can’t really use docs produced for anything but nixos and if the way they do things seems cool, just use chef or puppet. it’s the same poo poo but actually fits into existing systems rather than trying to reinvent the world
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Jul 22, 2019 06:16
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:nvidia is terrible and yet also the dominant choice, how did we get here same but adobe
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Jul 22, 2019 06:30
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RFC2324 posted:not my experience, even before valve started fixing poo poo. If you can get them to run, they usually run way better like bro, what? dota got like 30 fps on linux, WITH proprietary drivers, and it got like 200+ on windows, same hardware. also "full screen window" functionality was fked up
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Jul 22, 2019 06:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:nvidia is terrible and yet also the dominant choice, how did we get here gamers Farmer Crack-rear end posted:same but adobe designers
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Jul 22, 2019 06:33
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Truga posted:gamers rise up
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Jul 22, 2019 06:37
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the only stuff that runs better on Linux is horrible nerd poo poo. if horrible nerd poo poo games are a thing, I can believe someone saying they run better on Linux
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Jul 22, 2019 06:44
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BobHoward posted:i have the impression from afar that, ityool 2019, cuda’s merits relative to opencl are much the same relationship as (pick one of vulkan/dx12/metal/etc) to opengl, only possibly more so i think the closer equivalent would be the Glide API. by far the fastest for a couple years, but only works with 3dfx cards, while D3D and OpenGL worked with everything including the same 3dfx cards, with far better tooling to boot but one difference is accelerated compute stuff is currently mainly done on-site by the people selecting the hardware/OS, rather than being distributed to run on customer-owned hardware, so it hasn't been much of a problem if your dc just buys a bunch of nvidia poo poo. I expect that to change BTW vulkan/DX12/metal are all functionally accomplishing the same thing, in terms of providing lower level primitives in graphics APIs. they effectively compete with each other but they don't necessarily invalidate OpenGL or D3D for people who don't need the lower level access. to wit vulkan is maintained by the same org as OpenGL (and OpenCL)
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Jul 22, 2019 07:16
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Progressive JPEG posted:i think the closer equivalent would be the Glide API. by far the fastest for a couple years, but only works with 3dfx cards, while D3D and OpenGL worked with everything including the same 3dfx cards, with far better tooling to boot i was going more for vulkan / dx12 / metal being far ahead of GL in terms of modern api design, development tools, and ecosystem. as far as i can tell, on that axis cuda is so far ahead that opencl isn't even a viable choice for most projects it probably doesn't help that opencl's creator effectively put their own implementation out to pasture a few years ago in order to focus on metal compute instead you're right that the analogy doesn't work well if thinking about proprietary vs crossplatform
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Jul 22, 2019 07:51
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Nomnom Cookie posted:the only stuff that runs better on Linux is horrible nerd poo poo. if horrible nerd poo poo games are a thing, I can believe someone saying they run better on Linux when i still cared about game performance, any game that had a native linux port pretty much universally ran better on linux. i had a dualboot box as a kid because while most games only ran on gameos, i got like 20-30% more frames in quake2 on linux and i played that game the most back then. dunno how it is these days because i only play casual poo poo for casual losers and it doesn't matter, most games i play on linux run fine on my chomebook
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Jul 22, 2019 08:06
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cuda:opencl::java:vala no @ please.
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Jul 22, 2019 08:07
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Smythe posted:like bro, what? dota got like 30 fps on linux, WITH proprietary drivers, and it got like 200+ on windows, same hardware. also "full screen window" functionality was fked up you're doing something horribly wrong then, dota should run fine
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Jul 22, 2019 08:32
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are you using a laptop with both integrated and dedicated gpu (optimus) or something?
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Jul 22, 2019 08:33
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Nomnom Cookie posted:nixos has some neat ideas but it also breaks really basic stuff like mtime to achieve its ends. last I tried nixos, virtualenv didn’t work because of the mtime on system installed being set to epoch and to the nixos devs this was just impossible to solve, somehow. also the docs are poo poo and it’s so different from every other distro that you can’t really use docs produced for anything but nixos This is definitely true, NixOS has bullshit like every other distribution. What I like about it is that the bullshit is built on a coherent foundation, so fixing problems does not feel like you are going through arbitrary rituals, but more like debugging a well-designed computer program (except that the Nix expression language is a bit trash). I haven't had to use virtualenv myself (python lol), but the few times I've had to work with Python things, I ended up writing a Nix expression that made available what I needed. I think there is something in Nix that wraps all pip-installable packages somehow. There is certainly that for Haskell.
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Jul 22, 2019 09:04
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Smythe posted:like bro, what? dota got like 30 fps on linux, WITH proprietary drivers, and it got like 200+ on windows, same hardware. also "full screen window" functionality was fked up Nomnom Cookie posted:the only stuff that runs better on Linux is horrible nerd poo poo. if horrible nerd poo poo games are a thing, I can believe someone saying they run better on Linux Only games I can think of were WoW and EVE, so yeah, horrible nerd poo poo. That said, I know there were more that played better, but its been 6+ years since I looked at linux for gaming. I kinda wanna try it out again.
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Jul 22, 2019 11:57
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:today i had to run nvidia-settings to manually reset my display resolution after a video game hosed it up, and i thought of this thread Use AMD.
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Jul 22, 2019 12:30
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Smythe posted:like bro, what? dota got like 30 fps on linux, WITH proprietary drivers, and it got like 200+ on windows, same hardware. also "full screen window" functionality was fked up only the nvidia stack performs under linux love it or hate it, nvidia is the choice that is actually supported
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Jul 22, 2019 14:19
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Athas posted:Use AMD. i'm not getting fooled by this again "this time it's different," he cried, after being hosed over by broken ati graphics for the sixteenth time in twenty years
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Jul 22, 2019 14:20
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i'm not getting fooled by this again The drivers are in mainline. There is nothing to do and any modern AMD card just straight up works out of the box. It’s magical. Nvidia isn’t supported very well at all. They constantly ignore ABI deprecation warnings for months on end, until eventually their lovely driver wrapper breaks with a kernel update which then necessitates a tiny patch to fix that the community provides within a few hours and Nvidia fucks off for several months before officially applying. Nvidia and Linux are absolute garbage compared to AMD and you are straight up wrong about them being better than AMD for at least a year now. FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 14:46
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ratbert90 posted:Nvidia and Linux are absolute garbage It's the second one, op
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Jul 22, 2019 14:59
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Suspicious Dish posted:It's the second one, op Fedora and RHEL Linux is quite good, op.
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Jul 22, 2019 15:01
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ratbert90 posted:The drivers are in mainline. There is nothing to do and any modern AMD card just straight up works out of the box. It’s magical. as with the r2xx drivers from many years ago, it's cute that it's in mainline and it works out of the box, but it still sucks dead weasels through a hose as far as performance and compatibility maybe vulkan will catch on, and the performance/compatibility problems will disappear because people won't need stupid-complicated opengl implementations as badly
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Jul 22, 2019 15:04
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:only the nvidia stack performs under linux Intel works great OP
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Jul 22, 2019 15:05
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feedmegin posted:Intel works great OP it works great but it's hilariously slow compared to windows (to say nothing of comparing it to real graphics cards with their own un-shared memory)
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Jul 22, 2019 15:07
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it's funny, for a few years some time ago, intel's linux driver was better than the windows one. then with haswell? broadwell? it just fell of a cliff it still works reliably, but that's about the only thing that can be said about it.
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Jul 22, 2019 15:10
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Truga posted:it's funny, for a few years some time ago, intel's linux driver was better than the windows one. then with haswell? broadwell? it just fell of a cliff i remember on my old laptop with an intel 835, performance was about 1/3rd of windows did it catch up at some point only to fall behind again?
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Jul 22, 2019 15:11
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:as with the r2xx drivers from many years ago, it's cute that it's in mainline and it works out of the box, but it still sucks dead weasels through a hose as far as performance and compatibility No idea about compatibility (I've heard about all those game-specific shims that NVIDIA have in their horror house of a driver), but performance is fine on my Vega 64 as far as I can see. I've never run it in Windows, but the benchmarks I've run get me roughly the same FLOPS that AMD claims it should be able to put out. Programming it is a bit finicky compared to the NVIDIA GPUs I've tried, because it has very high compute rate compared to its memory bandwidth (even for a GPU), so using local memory is even more critical than ever, and the atomics are also slightly worse than I'd expect. I think this is because NVIDIA has a better cache system - I've heard that AMD forces an L1 cache flush on atomics, which sounds awful. EDIT: and having the driver in mainline is magical. You can install whatever obscure nerd distribution you wish (NixOS!) and as long as it still has a recent enough kernel, the GPU will just work.
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Jul 22, 2019 15:34
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Athas posted:No idea about compatibility (I've heard about all those game-specific shims that NVIDIA have in their horror house of a driver), but performance is fine on my Vega 64 as far as I can see. I've never run it in Windows, but the benchmarks I've run get me roughly the same FLOPS that AMD claims it should be able to put out. Programming it is a bit finicky compared to the NVIDIA GPUs I've tried, because it has very high compute rate compared to its memory bandwidth (even for a GPU), so using local memory is even more critical than ever, and the atomics are also slightly worse than I'd expect. I think this is because NVIDIA has a better cache system - I've heard that AMD forces an L1 cache flush on atomics, which sounds awful. ok so you are not using the opengl stack, which is where things run into trouble hopefully vulkan is the future and complicated opengl stacks stop being a thing Athas posted:EDIT: and having the driver in mainline is magical. You can install whatever obscure nerd distribution you wish (NixOS!) and as long as it still has a recent enough kernel, the GPU will just work. the tricky part of nvidia and firegl both are dealing with the userspace libraries the kernel side of things should be handled by dkms even on your obscure distribution
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Jul 22, 2019 15:37
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btw on (some) vulkan games the phoronix guy indicates the radeon vii can go toe to toe with a 2080 so it's not like there's no performance story for amd on linux. it's just opengl problems. (it's always been opengl problems.)
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Jul 22, 2019 15:38
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i'm not getting fooled by this again amd's linux drivers are good the ones written by valve instead of amd are better with amd hardware, some dx11 games are now running faster on linux with wine+dxvk than amd's native dx11 driver
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Jul 22, 2019 15:42
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but I’ve always been loyal to nvidia. surely they will reward my devoted service.
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Jul 22, 2019 15:50
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Soricidus posted:but I’ve always been loyal to nvidia. surely they will reward my devoted service. well, i mean, i always got what i paid for performance is consistently good, and the level of annoying stupid bullshit hasn't gone up or down over the years
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Jul 22, 2019 16:09
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The_Franz posted:amd's linux drivers are good right any time you can skip opengl amdgpu is a happy place to be
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Jul 22, 2019 16:09
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so what's the deal with vulkan compute being more limited than opencl anyway
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Jul 22, 2019 16:19
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i remember on my old laptop with an intel 835, performance was about 1/3rd of windows yeah, this was somewhere around the time when haswell was the new thing. HD3000 and HD4000 performed really well, i remember not having to spin up the nvidia card to play KSP on my old sandy bridge laptop. there were a few nasty opengl bugs in some games (stellaris not rendering borders comes to mind) that needed workarounds, but performance was on par or ahead of windows pretty universally. i.e. i can play kerbal space program decently on my lovely broadwell chomebook as long as i don't go for gigantic rockets that melt the cpu. however, the performance hasn't improved much since haswell gpus, which considering the hardware side has improved by like 100% since then is just lol
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Jul 22, 2019 16:23
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Sapozhnik posted:so what's the deal with vulkan compute being more limited than opencl anyway afaik vulkan compute is not actually an attempt to compete with opencl, much less cuda, but rather just a name for the part of vulkan dealing with compute in rendering applications (i.e. compute shaders in a rendering context). vulkan compute will still often be faster due to some low-level access (explicit barriers and such which opencl infers), but otoh opencl covers a lot broader a set of possible functionality (e.g. running on non-GPUs)
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Jul 22, 2019 16:35
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technically, phone games tend to run on Android, which is a linux so if you like playing Hearthstone on your phone then linux gaming works fine for you
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Jul 22, 2019 16:44
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:afaik vulkan compute is not actually an attempt to compete with opencl, much less cuda, but rather just a name for the part of vulkan dealing with compute in rendering applications (i.e. compute shaders in a rendering context). vulkan compute will still often be faster due to some low-level access (explicit barriers and such which opencl infers), but otoh opencl covers a lot broader a set of possible functionality (e.g. running on non-GPUs) to elaborate, graphical compute shaders have always been a subset of real compute shaders (which support dumb bullshit like goto) and Vulkan only supports graphics compute shaders, the same as OpenGL and Direct3D
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Jul 22, 2019 16:51
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:ok so you are not using the opengl stack, which is where things run into trouble are you trolling firegl hasn't been a thing for many many years, and still, every loving time amd comes up, you mention it. amd is completely open source now, you dont need any dkms poo poo you're living in 10 years linux past
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Jul 22, 2019 17:01
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and smythe has to be using his intel card in linux (or not running drivers at all), there's no other way to explain 200 fps windows vs 32 fps in linux.
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Jul 22, 2019 17:04
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