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NTRabbit posted:
Minus the fans, my build is almost identical to yours, though I'm kicking myself not getting the RGB Tridents now.
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Jul 20, 2019 14:19
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Sininu posted:What's the normal max core voltage for 3800X? Probably higher than 1.325 is safe too, but personally I wouldn't even bother with that kind of manual OC. And I delidded and tinkered forever with my 3770k. Khorne fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 14:20
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I still dont know what to get, the performance delta between the 3600 and the 3700x being so small in games but the price one being so high is starting to make me consider the 3600. But who knows if developers will start to focus more on multi threading now that 10+ threads might become the norm. So look at this way: If you go with the 3700 and games start needing 8c/16t in the near future you'll have saved the cost of an upgrade. If they don't you'll have gotten very little for the 65% price increase. If you go with the 3600 and more cores are used, you have the $130 saved to put towards the upgrade and potentially get a stronger CPU than the 3700 depending on what comes out between now an then, though depending on how long it is you're at risk for needed a new Mobo / possibly RAM too. If they don't you've saved $130. Eventually I'd say it's very likely games will use 8/16, it's a question of how long you think it will be and how much you suspect the CPU landscape will change in that time such that you may or may not want to upgrade anyways.
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Jul 20, 2019 15:19
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I had to switch to corsair vengeance because the tridents are too tall to fit under my heatsink fan.
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Jul 20, 2019 17:53
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I still dont know what to get, the performance delta between the 3600 and the 3700x being so small in games but the price one being so high is starting to make me consider the 3600. But who knows if developers will start to focus more on multi threading now that 10+ threads might become the norm. You could always get a 3600 now and upgrade to a Ryzen 4000 chip sometime down the line if 6 cores stops being enough since it should still be socket compatible. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 19:25
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Just get whatevers in your budget.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:40
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Ive been thinking: what if the next gen consoles are 8/8? There could be some advantages leaving SMT off for games.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:29
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I dont think they will because reserving a multi-threaded core for OS operations is significantly better than reserving a non multi-threaded one.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:36
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pofcorn posted:Ive been thinking: what if the next gen consoles are 8/8? There could be some advantages leaving SMT off for games. Depends on the game honestly. There are some engines currently where a 9700k will outperform a 9900K at the same clock. More often than not, SMT will be faster.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:41
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Khorne posted:Try this. Also, MSI is supposed to release a new bios on monday for the b450 boards but who knows if it got delayed or not. Didn't work, got my Gigabyte B450 Aorus M today and all is fine. Old board is bricked for sure
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Jul 20, 2019 20:44
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Robert Hallock said that the performance issues with SMT are usually due to issues with thread affinity, I would assume that this would be less of a problem when the developer is optimizing for only one CPU as is the case with a console. https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/1148247918975082498
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Jul 20, 2019 21:05
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MaxxBot posted:Robert Hallock said that the performance issues with SMT are usually due to issues with thread affinity, I would assume that this would be less of a problem when the developer is optimizing for only one CPU as is the case with a console. The scheduler/drivers should allow for overrides. The difference between SMT aware and SMT blind scheduling is pretty stark in some cases.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:24
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pofcorn posted:Ive been thinking: what if the next gen consoles are 8/8? There could be some advantages leaving SMT off for games. SMT is free performance. Even assembly wizards won't be able to use the full width of a modern x86 core every cycle so why bother when you can push a less critical worker to a SMT thread and call it a day.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:26
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Just wanna stump for Bequiet for a second. I couldnt find the AM4 bracket for my multiple year old Dark Rock 3. I wrote em an email asking to buy one if they had any spares, and seriously 2 days later, I had a new complete kit of mounting hardware in my mailbox for free no questions asked. Some good rear end service for a part that was only like $50.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:32
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You can buy pretty much any part from them if you can get through their labyrinthine contact forms, too. I don't care much for their CS, but they can be decent for spare parts if you know the trick.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:41
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Cygni posted:I've even had windows sneak its boot loader onto other drives after install too. That was like 7 years ago, but I'm still mad about it obviously. I did a quick format of a disk that had an old windows install on it before, then put it in the computer. Windows detected the old os on the formatted disk, FIXED IT then changed my bootloader to use it.
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Jul 21, 2019 15:15
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Jesus, Intel really is hosed. Intel admits it won’t catch up with AMD’s 7nm chips until 2021 quote:Swan admits that the 2.7x scaling for 10nm was both too ambitious and too complicated. He also explains how Intel made an error when it “prioritized performance at a time when predictability was really important”. Cynically, no you won't, and no it won't.
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Jul 21, 2019 18:36
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AMD's already passed a monumental barrier: they've achieved better IPC. AMD needs to get clocks a little up and latencies a little down, and then there's nothing really standing in their way. On the other hand, Intel seems to have made an enormous mess of things. It's almost unbelievable: Intel's profits and overall turnover dwarfs that of AMD's, AMD shouldn't even have a reasonable chance, but here we are
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Jul 21, 2019 18:37
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They reused a mobile process so clocks are low but pow is high. With enough scale they could do a semi custom high clock high perf process. Since they're trying to get epyc into data centers I doubt they want to lose a healthy ppw advantage.
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Jul 21, 2019 18:42
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Malcolm XML posted:They reused a mobile process so clocks are low but pow is high. With enough scale they could do a semi custom high clock high perf process. What would a semi-custom perf process entail that would be different from the mobile process, anyways? We talking implementation of ASIC features in general or something more on the materials side of things, i.e. doping?
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Jul 21, 2019 19:38
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Malcolm XML posted:They reused a mobile process so clocks are low but pow is high. With enough scale they could do a semi custom high clock high perf process. If pretty much everything now aside from a few desktop users (consoles, laptops, servers) cares more about power consumption than raw performance, is there really a reason for them to?
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Jul 21, 2019 19:54
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Welp got my 2700 up and running on the X470 Taichi aannnd, it can't seem to hit 4.1Ghz OC @ 1.375v, and the E-Die CL15 3000 Crucial sticks I have barely want to do the drat XMP setting, let alone 3200 or 3600 or even going below CL16 even at 1.45v. I have no idea what the gently caress I am doing wrong, using the safe settings from Ryzen DRAM calculator as well.
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Jul 21, 2019 20:34
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:What would a semi-custom perf process entail that would be different from the mobile process, anyways? We talking implementation of ASIC features in general or something more on the materials side of things, i.e. doping? Saw a video a while back and the crazy thing is that transistors are fundamentally analog devices, they don't switch on and off perfectly but instead they generate more of a voltage curve. A process can be optimized for different points on that voltage curve. A mobile process is going to try to make the transistors "off" state be as close to 0v as possible in order to reduce leakage which saves power/heat, but optimizing for that comes at the expense of switching time. More "off" transistors require more time to reach "off" so they switch slower. Where as faster transistors also leak more and consume more power overall in exchange for being able to very quickly cross back and forth from their threshold voltages. If you look at TSMCs 7nm as a process, I think it is for FinFET basically what 28nm was as the last practical high frequency planar process. The problem is the gates are getting to be too small even with FinFET and its causing power consumption/density to be too high for use in high frequency transistors. Intel didn't tighten up their geometry in 14++ to hit higher clock speeds, they actually made several aspects of their transistors bigger to make it work. This is likely why everyone is racing to develop GAAFET. 7nm is smaller and uses less power than larger nodes, but isn't any faster than those larger nodes. This is probably also a big component of what is wrong with Intel's 10nm which is in some ways a more aggressive target than TSMCs 7nm, they are all too small to control leakage at high frequencies.
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Jul 21, 2019 20:57
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:What would a semi-custom perf process entail that would be different from the mobile process, anyways? We talking implementation of ASIC features in general or something more on the materials side of things, i.e. doping? Potentially anything amd wants. Specific transistors, ip, tuned to whatever the application is. Nvidia did this with tsmc and probably does it with Samsung. There are a lot of variable in a "process" that are tunable if you pay enough. Inept posted:If pretty much everything now aside from a few desktop users (consoles, laptops, servers) cares more about power consumption than raw performance, is there really a reason for them to? There might be a niche that pays for it.
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Jul 21, 2019 21:00
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Indiana_Krom posted:Saw a video a while back and the crazy thing is that transistors are fundamentally analog devices, they don't switch on and off perfectly but instead they generate more of a voltage curve. A process can be optimized for different points on that voltage curve. A mobile process is going to try to make the transistors "off" state be as close to 0v as possible in order to reduce leakage which saves power/heat, but optimizing for that comes at the expense of switching time. More "off" transistors require more time to reach "off" so they switch slower. Where as faster transistors also leak more and consume more power overall in exchange for being able to very quickly cross back and forth from their threshold voltages. Yep. Intel chose different transistors that can clock higher for example. They can do this since they own the fab (though I suppose they wish they didn't given 10nm being hosed ) There's a complex multidimensional surface upon which a process is optimized and it's a compromise.
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Jul 21, 2019 21:03
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Very cool stuff. The next few years seem like an interesting time for TSMC!
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Jul 21, 2019 22:07
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Intel's 10nm isn't clocking any better than zen2. Zen2 is on the high performance 7nm node of TSMC. Ice Lake probably has higher ipc than zen2 from the numbers they've shown. They achieved that by going even wider than zen2.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:15
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Yeah TSMC has two 7nm cell types, low power and high performance, with Zen being the latter. Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:What would a semi-custom perf process entail that would be different from the mobile process, anyways? We talking implementation of ASIC features in general or something more on the materials side of things, i.e. doping? A high performance process uses larger cell sizes which gives lower resistance and therefor higher clock speeds. A process optimized for mobile will have smaller cell sizes and therefor higher density and lower power. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jul 21, 2019 |
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Jul 21, 2019 22:22
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Khorne posted:Intel's 10nm isn't clocking any better than zen2. Anandtech tests has shown the perf/W of Intel's 10nm was absolutely garbage even for a ~2.2GHz 2C Cannonlake part. The previous time Intel screwed up on process was their early 180nm (yield issues at worst) and it still wasn't remotely near the shitshow their 10nm is.
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Jul 22, 2019 01:13
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Is RGB (on Mobo) supposed to stay on after shutdown?
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Jul 22, 2019 02:13
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Seamonster posted:Is RGB (on Mobo) supposed to stay on after shutdown? It does on my Asrock X570 Taichi. I just turned the motherboard RGB off in the EFI so it's not a problem for me (the Wraith Prism's RGB fan is enough RGB for me, and that turns off with the rest of the PC).
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Jul 22, 2019 02:24
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Never mind, I misread
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Jul 22, 2019 02:28
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Seamonster posted:Is RGB (on Mobo) supposed to stay on after shutdown? I think that's the default on most motherboards, but there's likely bios options to turn them off during sleep/shutdown. If your motherboard has RGB software then you might have to adjust the settings from there or it will just overwrite your bios changes.
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Jul 22, 2019 02:32
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My case came! And I got it all together, flashed bios worked first go out of the box, boot to bios and set xmp, then remember I haven't made a win boot disc. Got to make boot disc, remember havent grabbed the latest iso. Oh well, I'll get around to it tomorrow. Also gently caress m2 drive screws when you've misplaced your jewellers driver set.
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Jul 22, 2019 12:43
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Puddin posted:Also gently caress m2 drive screws when you've misplaced your jewellers driver set. gently caress them in general - who thought it was a good idea that we now need an extra screw type when building a pc?
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Jul 22, 2019 12:54
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Puddin posted:My case came! And I got it all together, flashed bios worked first go out of the box, boot to bios and set xmp, then remember I haven't made a win boot disc. Lol, It was the first time in years that I actually had to go to a computer store because I lost one. They are the same as Mini PCIe as used in laptops though.
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Jul 22, 2019 13:03
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Seamonster posted:Is RGB (on Mobo) supposed to stay on after shutdown?
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Jul 22, 2019 14:22
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Silicon Lottery has a post up on r/AMD regarding Zen2 overclocking. Notably: "Overclocking on these CPUs in general is definitely not warranted, as the stock boost algorithm is great..." And that the 3800X gets 100MHz higher all core over the 3700X, but their sample size is small.
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Jul 22, 2019 14:27
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Puddin posted:Also gently caress m2 drive screws when you've misplaced your jewellers driver set. One of several reasons I think we should have gone with U.2 for desktops and let the laptops have the M.2 drives. I suppose some people really hate cables.
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Jul 22, 2019 14:47
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Having a nightmare deciding between building a 3700X or 9900k system for gaming. There's £36 difference between them according to pcpartpicker at the moment. I'm playing at x1440 144hz at the moment, but considering moving to a 1080 240hz at some point. Them few extra FPS the 9900k gets are taunting me, and the boosting not working properly on the ryzen3000s - maybe ever? - got me second guessing it. But them Intel vulnerabilities and the possibility of upgrading to Zen2020 that could comfortably beat the 9900k at some point is making me hesitate also
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Jul 22, 2019 15:36
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