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get that OUT of my face posted:There are little things in the dialog up to now that have hinted at the real villain, and that's one of them. Also: when the Pulsating Mass was in dog form, he mentioned "gobbling up his brain" and wanting to give him new organs. Not only that, it retroactively gives Buck a LOT of depth.  This is 100% a teenage boy who doesn't know how to process what he's feeling. He's sad, he's angry, he's frustrated and he doesn't know how to handle what his little brother's going through. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 16:48
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I spoiled myself on the game long before I kept track of this thread, but this is the first time seeing that cut-scene and drat is it rough Jimmy is doing his best  Also another bit of foreshadowing. Throughout the game, we're reminded that Jimmy can't read but the Secret Knowledge scene shows us the real reason why: he's dyslexic theGrooseofLegend fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 17:16
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I mean, the clues were there from the start. I guessed it pretty early on, but knowing it doesn't make it any easier to accept E: if you want to be extra-sad, go watch the cutscene right after the Johnathan Bear fight again. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 17:20
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theGrooseofLegend posted:
i read the whole not being able to read thing a further "it's a dream!" hint. Maybe it's both?
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Jul 22, 2019 17:40
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C-Euro posted:E: if you want to be extra-sad, go watch the cutscene right after the Johnathan Bear fight again.  "After: "Today's a very special day. Do you know why? It's another day I get to spend with you!  "
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Jul 22, 2019 18:07
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Dash Rendar posted:i read the whole not being able to read thing a further "it's a dream!" hint. Maybe it's both? we're meant to think it's because of the dream at first, but it's a fakeout. jimmy legitimately can't read. whether it's related to his illness or not is anyone's guess you can also catch glimpses of it in andrew's memory dungeon - at a certain point he's struggling to teach jimmy his letters, with little success. jimmy's lack of achievement in this area is probably one of the biggest contributors to his self-esteem issues, considering how intelligent he believes his father to be e: i should also add that at another point in andrew's memory dungeon, it sounds like he's suggesting to helga that they just have another child when they inevitably lose jimmy. smooth talking there, champ Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 18:07
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Oxxidation posted:we're meant to think it's because of the dream at first, but it's a fakeout. jimmy legitimately can't read. whether it's related to his illness or not is anyone's guess Not feeling like you're living up to your parents' example at age 8 is such a big mood for me. This game, right in the feels
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Jul 22, 2019 18:13
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get that OUT of my face posted:Before: "Today's a very special day. Do you know why? It's another day I get to spend with you! It's the last line in that scene in particular that really cuts you. "If you wake up, I'll stop crying" fffffffffff
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Jul 22, 2019 18:17
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One last thing about the twist because I don't want this to just be a sea of black bars until the next update. Think back to what Andrew said on the ship controlled by his grandma. He said that you can tell that an ecosystem is starting to die when bees start to die. Before, the Buddy Bees were acting helpful to its friends. In their decayed, zombified forms, they instead cannibalize their friends. Therefore, it's heavily implied that the Pulsating Mass originated from leukemia.
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Jul 22, 2019 18:22
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C-Euro posted:It's the last line in that scene in particular that really cuts you. "If you wake up, I'll stop crying" fffffffffff It's the flash-zaps that do it for me, those defibrillator feels man. Jimmy is doing his best. This game does the feeling of dread so frickin good.
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Jul 22, 2019 18:40
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Also note the status effect names: Withering, Immunodeficient, Terminal, etc
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Jul 22, 2019 18:47
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"Holy" type attacks increase the risk of skin cancer!
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Jul 22, 2019 19:09
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So, I got a little lazy in updating this, but hey, Jimmy's made some new friends. Fun fact, I originally thought this game was going to be a puberty allegory when I first played it. That did not last long after the bees.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:11
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Yeah, there have been tons of clues. Remember the leadup to the Queen Bee fight? “I hate every drop of rotten blood inside your carcass. I hate every mole and mark creeping up your back. I hate how you pretend to be a hero when you’re really just weak, weak, weak.” Poor kid has way, way more self-loathing than anyone his age should ever have.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:11
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Ayndin posted:Yeah, there have been tons of clues. Remember the leadup to the Queen Bee fight? “I hate every drop of rotten blood inside your carcass. I hate every mole and mark creeping up your back. I hate how you pretend to be a hero when you’re really just weak, weak, weak.” From the opposite side, you can 100% read that as the cancer talking. Because it is such a uniquely hateful and destructive disease that won’t stop until every cell in your body is destroyed, and it’s just that you tend to die before that happens. Though there’s been some cases of cancer cells living on past their victim’s death, in perpetuity in some cases, it’s that loving relentless.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:37
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Also shoutout to the library discussion because they are very important institutions and it kills me how much they tend to be overlooked and under-funded. e: also the last Twilight movie has to be seen to be believed, it's like the climax in an X-Men film. People are punching the ground so hard it cracks and lava comes out, a giant wolf eats a child, and then it turns out to be a prophecy and a character goes "so yeah that's what would happen if we fought' and everyone agrees it's a bad idea so they all just stand down, it's incredible. ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 19:42
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ManlyGrunting posted:Also shoutout to the library discussion because they are very important institutions and it kills me how much they tend to be overlooked and under-funded. Big truth here. They deal with a lot more issues than just books.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:44
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nine-gear crow posted:From the opposite side, you can 100% read that as the cancer talking. Because it is such a uniquely hateful and destructive disease that won’t stop until every cell in your body is destroyed, and it’s just that you tend to die before that happens. Though there’s been some cases of cancer cells living on past their victim’s death, in perpetuity in some cases, it’s that loving relentless. Honestly, one of the coolest things that has happened recently well, in treatment of cancer, is that they can now do tests on the genetic makeup of the cancer, and then use targeted drugs instead of wide spectrum chemo to attack the cancer. So we're making progress on that front. Also Henrietta Lacks
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Jul 22, 2019 19:47
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I was kind of hoping it wasn't going to be cancer, since between OFF and Rakuen I'd kind of seen enough of that particular story, but really what else was a pulsating mass going to be once you figured out it's a metaphore?. Still, this does strike a good balance between the former's abstract horror and the latter's bittersweet whimsy, and it's hit harder emotionally than either of them.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:21
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I have guesses but I'm gonna wait for things to be revealed, so I'm really looking forward to coming back and reading all these black bars after the story's done.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:21
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Tenebrais posted:I was kind of hoping it wasn't going to be cancer, since between OFF and Rakuen I'd kind of seen enough of that particular story, but really what else was a pulsating mass going to be once you figured out it's a metaphore?. Still, this does strike a good balance between the former's abstract horror and the latter's bittersweet whimsy, and it's hit harder emotionally than either of them. OFF is sort of a different beast, since it wasn't about cancer so much as it was using medical imagery to convey the deprecation of its own bizarre little world Rakuen otoh is definitely a weaker version of what Jimmy is trying to do
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Jul 22, 2019 20:39
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nine-gear crow posted:From the opposite side, you can 100% read that as the cancer talking. Because it is such a uniquely hateful and destructive disease that won’t stop until every cell in your body is destroyed, and it’s just that you tend to die before that happens. Though there’s been some cases of cancer cells living on past their victim’s death, in perpetuity in some cases, it’s that loving relentless. Yeah, I agree -- in the same way that other prominent enemies represent Jimmy's perception of his fears, I think the Mass's characterisation is based on Jimmy's perception of his cancer: it's a cruel, ruthless bully that hates him for no reason and just wants to ruin his life and destroy him.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:46
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ManlyGrunting posted:e: also the last Twilight movie has to be seen to be believed, it's like the climax in an X-Men film. People are punching the ground so hard it cracks and lava comes out, a giant wolf eats a child, and then it turns out to be a prophecy and a character goes "so yeah that's what would happen if we fought' and everyone agrees it's a bad idea so they all just stand down, it's incredible. Sorry if this is contributing to a derail, but oh man, that ending is so bonkers. I have a hate-on for Twilight, but my roommate at the time liked the series, so we went to the last movie in a tiny theater where there were only two other people. I slammed Lime-A-Ritas the whole time and slurred, "LEEEEE PAAAAACE" at the screen any time he showed up to gnaw voraciously on the scenery. I mean, dat cast. For TWILIGHT. Like, the number of awards for legit acting between the lot of them would fill my garage and then some. So bonkers. And then it turns out to be a loving mental simulation and no one actually fights and HAHAHAHA fffs. slurs LEEEEE PAAAAAAACE.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:01
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I guess it all kinda makes sense now. I was going to say, Jimmy seems like he's had to deal with something EXTREMELY heavy, more-so than could be attributed to day-to-day pressure and scary movies. Poor little guy 
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Jul 22, 2019 21:04
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Sorry if this is contributing to a derail, but oh man, that ending is so bonkers. I have a hate-on for Twilight, but my roommate at the time liked the series, so we went to the last movie in a tiny theater where there were only two other people. I slammed Lime-A-Ritas the whole time and slurred, "LEEEEE PAAAAACE" at the screen any time he showed up to gnaw voraciously on the scenery. And yes, when you fight the 50s-Style Vampire and he brags about what "today's sexy vampires can't do," he's referring to Twilight-style vampires.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:10
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"I'll show you what today's 'sexy' vampires can't do" was the tell for Black Fountain, right? Can the vampire couple in the library cast that at all?
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Jul 22, 2019 21:18
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The enemy variety in the library is exquisite, and I got a kick out of the sexy vampires making an appearance.Oxxidation posted:i should also add that at another point in andrew's memory dungeon, it sounds like he's suggesting to helga that they just have another child when they inevitably lose jimmy. smooth talking there, champ
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Jul 22, 2019 21:49
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Is there anything special when you're fighting vampires as a vampire?
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Jul 22, 2019 21:51
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SelenicMartian posted:Is there anything special when you're fighting vampires as a vampire? Not that I saw but I'll go back and check.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:53
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It's a vampire-eat-vampire world.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:56
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I suspected the spoiler stuff pretty early on too. But even with all the nightmare asides, this game sure is good at keeping you distracted in between for a while with all the cute and charming bits.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:21
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I gotta say Punch was a nice moment of levity there.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:59
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Jesus Christ, Jonathon Bear wasn't just a heightened emotional reaction of guilt for stealing, it was heightened even further because it was the one thing that Jimmy felt most guilty for in his life as he faces the idea that he might not even live long enough to emotionally mature enough to process that guilt. He just knows that he did something bad, and that he might not be able be forgiven for doing the bad thing unless he confesses, but he doesn't want to confess because he doesn't want his family to think poorly of him while he's on his potential death bed. loving hell.
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Jul 23, 2019 02:23
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nine-gear crow posted:From the opposite side, you can 100% read that as the cancer talking. Because it is such a uniquely hateful and destructive disease that won’t stop until every cell in your body is destroyed, and it’s just that you tend to die before that happens. Though there’s been some cases of cancer cells living on past their victim’s death, in perpetuity in some cases, it’s that loving relentless. That's fair! That interpretation gives me interesting thoughts about that cutscene we just saw, actually.
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Jul 23, 2019 02:28
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There's body horror, and then there's emotional horror. I figured that the pulsating mass was cancer and that Jimmy had it, but it finally made impact today. Especially putting together how his family are dealing with it from the memory caves and them rushing off today.
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Jul 23, 2019 02:34
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And here I kept resisting the urge to joke about the pulsating mass being brain cancer or something because that seemed way too dark. Although I had a hard time thinking of what else it could be after that "wake up" line. But tbf a lot of what probably made me jump straight to that was playing Rakuen relatively recently, which is somewhat similar. Sindai fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 05:08
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Guys, its okay. It turns the Pulsating Mass is actually a religious metaphor. Jimmy's family is actually intensely Catholic and that's what's been upsetting Jimmy this whole time.
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Jul 23, 2019 05:10
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This is the big final point of comparison I'd like to make against Yume Nikki. Jimmy is trapped in a dream world but it's eventually spelled out exactly what that dream world is, what is trapping him there, and what a lot of the symbolism actually is. I really did not think a game could have a similar vibe to Yume Nikki while being sincere and open.
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Jul 23, 2019 05:14
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Oh man I'm enjoying reading everyones posts. having played through this twice (now on a 3rd and very slow run so I can clean up the wiki page) I still don't quite understand what exactly is going on in that last cutscene. Is the hand disappearing then returning as a fist suggest Jimmy nearly died but held on at the last second?get that OUT of my face posted:One last thing about the twist because I don't want this to just be a sea of black bars until the next update. Think back to what Andrew said on the ship controlled by his grandma. He said that you can tell that an ecosystem is starting to die when bees start to die. Before, the Buddy Bees were acting helpful to its friends. In their decayed, zombified forms, they instead cannibalize their friends. You're the first person I've seen to suggest it originated from leukemia. :O I even searched leukemia in the jimmy discord and didn't see anyone mention it either. A while back we were discussing this and thought maybe the origin of the pulsating mass was lung cancer since that can turn into all kinds of stuff. Its really cool seeing everyones theories on this. GrandmaParty posted:Not only that, it retroactively gives Buck a LOT of depth. Buck is an incredible character and there is just... so much going on for him. I say Johnny is my favorite all the time but I don't think I can write rambling paragraphs about his character like I can with Buck. It's extremely hard to decide who is my favorite. Anyway,   There's something about this that hurts me. Kad fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 06:23
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Sorry if this is contributing to a derail, but oh man, that ending is so bonkers. I have a hate-on for Twilight, but my roommate at the time liked the series, so we went to the last movie in a tiny theater where there were only two other people. I slammed Lime-A-Ritas the whole time and slurred, "LEEEEE PAAAAACE" at the screen any time he showed up to gnaw voraciously on the scenery. I didn't even get to talk about the vampire c-section. And by vampire c-section, I mean Edward literally chomps on Bella's belly and keeps biting until he reaches the uterus and the baby is born. Holy poo poo is the Twilight series terrible. Also, 50 Shades of Grey is literally Twilight fanfiction that the author changed the names of to avoid copyright infringement. The more you know  On another note, I had a suspicion/theory on what the pulsating mass was for a while and I was gonna mention it either in the thread or the video, but I forgot to bring it up. Looks like I was right
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Jul 23, 2019 07:03
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