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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Revolutionary Girl Utena is no joke the greatest anime ever made. Seconding this. Everyone with any interest in art and especially queer art needs to watch it. It's a very lyrical anime, completely surreal, and it hits you in the feels from every angle. The movie is different but also amazing. I watched it for the first time while I was studying art history, with a masters student in English lit with a concentration in queer theory, and oh boy did we have a lot of stuff to discuss.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:37
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Darth Walrus posted:I'd say it's more that it spends some time in the middle as a straightforward monster-of-the-week show. Everything up until Ramiel is pretty heavy on the psychological drama. Yeah, but it's presenting literal events that just happen to have significant psychological weight. Utena hits you with bizarre metaphorical imagery right out of the gate (or depending on how you look at it, presents a world where bizarre dream-like events can happen unexplained and un-remarked upon) and never lets up. Dirt Road Junglist posted:Seconding this. Everyone with any interest in art and especially queer art needs to watch it. It's a very lyrical anime, completely surreal, and it hits you in the feels from every angle. I wish I had the time and money to go back to school for something like this. I applied to a bunch of language / media grad programs after graduating law school, and in retrospect it's probably better for my career that I didn't get in, but it's hard not to think about what could have been.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:39
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Utena is amazing and everyone should watch it. Allegory. Allegorier. Allegoriest.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I wish I had the time and money to go back to school for something like this. I applied to a bunch of language / media grad programs after graduating law school, and in retrospect it's probably better for my career that I didn't get in, but it's hard not to think about what could have been. Are there any classes you can audit in your area? Dunno what kind of spare time you have on your hands, but it's the sort of subject you can study without necessarily needing to be working towards a degree. Wonder if there's any worthwhile online learning that's not, "LOL LEARN TO CODE, PEASANT."
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Jul 22, 2019 21:48
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Seconding this. Everyone with any interest in art and especially queer art needs to watch it. It's a very lyrical anime, completely surreal, and it hits you in the feels from every angle. utena has strong queer messaging, surreal art and extremely handsome boys being absolute bastards it has it all really
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Jul 22, 2019 21:51
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I just started watching this last night and I'm 6 episodes in Instantly passed the good theme anime test
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Jul 22, 2019 22:19
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I just started watching Utena and while it's fun it's extremely repetitive and the animation feels pretty cheap.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:27
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On the one hand, you aren't wrong. On the other, they're going to begin loving with that.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:29
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Utena is possibly the best anime I've ever watched, but also probably the hardest sell to anyone I know. Like you can't just drop the kind of heavy poo poo that Utena features on someone without warning but if I say 'hey wanna watch a show about breaking out from an abusive incestuous relationship' I'm not going to get a lot of takers no matter how I spin it. But my God. The imagery. Where is the modern Utena remaster, huh? Has the movie ever been legally available in North America?
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Jul 22, 2019 22:33
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The Utena TV show never reaches the level of gorgeous / detailed animation that Evangelion does (that's what the movie is for  ) but it makes its budgetary limitations a very overt and conscious part of its artistic style.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:36
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YggiDee posted:Has the movie ever been legally available in North America? Repeatedly. It's been packed in with the third arc box set for going on a decade now.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:42
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I randomly rented Bubble Bobble and the first Utena VHS before Thanksgiving in 98 or 99 and they've both become Holiday traditions (though Bobble was pushed to Xmas break). There's just something crazy amazing with eating a load of turkey and sitting down to digest it with pie, whipped cream, and Rinbu Revolution. For what it's worth it was announced at AX that FunimationNow acquired the rights to include Utena soon.
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Jul 22, 2019 23:00
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Utena just being online for free is a great public good
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Jul 22, 2019 23:55
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the art and animation in Utena can get janky as hell, but particularly around the second arc (roughly episodes 12-24 I think), you can really notice moments where the characters and animation are amazingly crisp for brief, beautiful moments in time. I think one of the things it has in common with Evangelion is that almost every character is filled to the brim with angst and desire, so a lot of times the most interesting and intense scenes are the ones where two or more characters are being forced to interact around mundane day-to-day conventions. Evangelion has its shared elevator rides, Utena has sitting at the same lunch table.
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Jul 23, 2019 00:04
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I also really liked how they handled the MC's Caretaker/Death Robot. It was a really unique take where The AI takes it's Asimov Three Laws Style directives and evolves them beyond what humanity intended. But instead of the cliche "Enslave humanity for its own good" thing it instead tells the MC to get a girlfriend and kills the other robot for not properly serving humanity. Also, If you need more underwater mecha try Blue Sub No. 6
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Jul 23, 2019 00:38
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What's the deal with Rei's orange bacta tank? Not the clone tank, but the one where she's just naked by herself and Gendo's creepin' on her. I thought it might have something to do with memory uploading but.... ????? Maybe it's just clone maintenance?
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Jul 23, 2019 06:11
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redsniper posted:What's the deal with Rei's orange bacta tank? Not the clone tank, but the one where she's just naked by herself and Gendo's creepin' on her. I thought it might have something to do with memory uploading but.... ????? Maybe it's just clone maintenance? It's the dummy system. They say that explicitly
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Jul 23, 2019 06:14
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redsniper posted:What's the deal with Rei's orange bacta tank? Not the clone tank, but the one where she's just naked by herself and Gendo's creepin' on her. I thought it might have something to do with memory uploading but.... ????? Maybe it's just clone maintenance? its fine cuz there's lines over her bits so you cant see them
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Jul 23, 2019 06:18
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redsniper posted:What's the deal with Rei's orange bacta tank? Not the clone tank, but the one where she's just naked by herself and Gendo's creepin' on her. I thought it might have something to do with memory uploading but.... ????? Maybe it's just clone maintenance?
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Jul 23, 2019 06:40
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all these trans girl shinji readings of Eva and no one mentions that the only time shinji ever feels and/or is powerful is when inhabiting a giant angry female fleshbot? like the whole middle chunk of the series is confidence building but only by way of 'being' Unit 01. (i am also trans please don't yell at me)
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Jul 23, 2019 10:02
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At right, dummy system, mind uploading the other direction. I must have brain farted.Million Ghosts posted:all these trans girl shinji readings of Eva and no one mentions that the only time shinji ever feels and/or is powerful is when inhabiting a giant angry female fleshbot? like the whole middle chunk of the series is confidence building but only by way of 'being' Unit 01. Not just trans, but like incestuous your mom trans. I am only powerful when back in the womb because I'm still a little babby. The kids can't do anything alone but need maternal meat suits instead. Now how do you read the Eva's phallic cod pieces?
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Jul 23, 2019 11:27
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Here, have an image gallery of Cowboy Bebop tech https://imgur.com/gallery/n6h1JdS  
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Jul 23, 2019 12:07
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redsniper posted:At right, dummy system, mind uploading the other direction. I must have brain farted. Evangelions are part-divine women trapped in masculine shells by their abusive parents. That's not subtext, it's fuckin' text.
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Jul 23, 2019 12:13
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Well Manicured Man posted:
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Jul 23, 2019 12:44
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redsniper posted:Not just trans, but like incestuous your mom trans. I am only powerful when back in the womb because I'm still a little babby. Well, like, not really. This is where we need to go back into the critique of ideology: "Even if you die, there will be another to take your place, Rei... Just like me."  There's a lot of talk in Evangelion about souls being transferred between bodies and whatever, and people have really been too credulous of that. Like it's just assumed, due to the exposition, that these NERVE peeps have the technology to do that. They don't. In the above image, Dr. Naoko Akagi's soul is the small bloody smear left between these massive copies of her brain. This smear is cleaned up, washed away, and life continues as normal. Ritsuko Akagi romanticizes the supercomputers, referring to them as her mother, but this belief that her mother's soul persists inside the machine is her means of avoiding the painful truth that her mother is now extremely dead. These supercomputers are something else, something alien. This truth - that you can't transfer a soul - is the very reason why Naoko killed herself. As Naoko realized, too late, you cannot actually fully replace the person with a clone or a digital copy. Despite there being a thousand copies of Rei/Yuki, Rei 1 was irreplaceable. Underlining this, the MAGI computer that Ritsuko believes is literally her mother is unceremoniously replaced with a duplicate, later on, and nobody cares. It's vital to understand how sexism is at work here. Naoko designed the computers for Gendo, to fill these gendered roles. There's the Mother, the (Sexual) Woman, and the third persona - Scientist - evokes a false 'gender-blind' neutrality (like, "I'm not a woman, I'm a scientist."). The characters all believe that a balance of these three would create the ideal mind - a literal Mother Brain that will rule the nation better than any democracy. But something was lost, wasn't it? This specifically reflects how Misato is pressured to act as Shinji's surrogate mother, his object of lust, and his military leader depending on each situation. (And much of the drama is mined from situations where the roles get confused: the infamous hand-touch is so painful because it's a confusion of the sexual and the maternal. Kaji deliberately sexually harasses her in order to distract her and access the NERVE documents, etc.) Misato works hard to excel at all three roles: to prove that she's not just a pretty face and can do the job of any man, simultaneously feeling empowered by her sexuality in a 'postfeminist' way, and protecting these poor orphaned children. But all three personas ultimately exist to serve the system. Even when Misato believes she is acting freely, expressing her inner nature, that is when she is in ideology. She is still just filling her designated role - to get Shinji into the cockpit and get him pulling that trigger. When she rebels against the leadership and comforts Shinji, genuinely caring about him, this is ultimately keeping Shinji in the fight. This makes her a better servant, an ideal servant. Her risk-taking and creativity make her better at exterminating the bugs. Notions of love, family, freedom, and so-on are all twisted in support of the technofacist state. Anyway, point is that Unit 01 is not Shinji's mom.
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Jul 23, 2019 15:53
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bring back old gbs posted:Here, have an image gallery of Cowboy Bebop tech Eva loves its doors BeBop loves its levers and keypads
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Jul 23, 2019 15:57
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Piloting an eva is,to me, growing up using inherited history/allegory over what an incapable current adult leadership is forcefully suggesting you do. They try to plan and guide the myth but lack the plasticity of a youthful mind for applying that information to new situations. Like yeah it's your mom's spirit in there but that image represents the first person to give you old stories and information about the world from before you existed to help you succeed independently.
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Jul 23, 2019 15:58
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Million Ghosts posted:all these trans girl shinji readings of Eva and no one mentions that the only time shinji ever feels and/or is powerful is when inhabiting a giant angry female fleshbot? like the whole middle chunk of the series is confidence building but only by way of 'being' Unit 01. Same and that is why I enjoy trans girl Shinji readings I am also an angry female fleshbot.
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Jul 23, 2019 16:00
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Million Ghosts posted:giant angry female fleshbot goals also worth noting- that "shinji building confidence" arc culminates with shinji literally becoming part of said fleshbot for like a month while representatives of the systems of power try to yank him out, which is like, a big mood shinji truly lives in a society
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Jul 23, 2019 16:13
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The final angel fight in 2.22 is still my favorite out of the entire series especially since Shinji finally develops some agency and does something because he wants too and for everyone to cheer him on until the last second
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Jul 23, 2019 19:00
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Skimmed through 2.22 and 3.0 again (mostly to figure out where various tracks play and of course "Trust" is played when Kaworu's telling Shinki about how he screwed up the world and we see the bloody moon and why does the ground have teeth The former's still good and the latter's still wonderfully incomprehensible
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Jul 23, 2019 19:23
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like that big baby at the end of 2001 but people keep starting and stopping its development
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Jul 23, 2019 20:33
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Vinylshadow posted:why does the ground have teeth I always especially loved that imagery, lol. Earth got so ruined that it grew a great maw specifically so that it could gnash in agony
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Jul 23, 2019 21:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anyway, point is that Unit 01 is not Shinji's mom. This is precisely the attitude that SEELE expresses towards Unit-01 in one of their earliest appearances, and it is conclusively rejected in EoE when Yui appears, takes everyone by surprise, and enacts her version of Instrumentality.
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Jul 23, 2019 21:07
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Similarly, while the Magi may or may not be Naoko in the literal sense, dismissing them as just an alien machine doesn't quite grasp their significance either. They're an image of womanhood that Naoko created on the basis of her sense of self (through the filter of internalized sexism and for the sake of NERV, sure, but still her creation in her own image), and when they're confronted with an actual alien intelligence -- in much the same way Asuka is in Episode 22, or Shinji in Episode 16, both of whom saw their own reflection in the Angel (and relived their past trauma some extent) -- the Magi respond by attempting to commit a murder-suicide, and Ritsuko has to "talk them down" by appealing to them as women. Also, an unrelated note about something we discussed earlier -- the Angels are in fact attracted to Adam as much as Lilith. It's why Gaghiel attacks the ship in Episode 8 (because Kaji is on board carrying Adam's physical remains; after that episode it's in Gendo's possession and presumably located in the same geographical location as Lilith for the majority of the show -- except when Gendo is elsewhere. Whenever I do my next rewatch I'm going to need to check and see if he actually went on-location in the field in Magma Diver.)
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Jul 23, 2019 21:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Similarly, while the Magi may or may not be Naoko in the literal sense, dismissing them as just an alien machine doesn't quite grasp their significance either. They're an image of womanhood that Naoko created on the basis of her sense of self (through the filter of internalized sexism and for the sake of NERV, sure, but still her creation in her own image), and when they're confronted with an actual alien intelligence -- in much the same way Asuka is in Episode 22, or Shinji in Episode 16, both of whom saw their own reflection in the Angel (and relived their past trauma some extent) -- the Magi respond by attempting to commit a murder-suicide, and Ritsuko has to "talk them down" by appealing to them as women. Adam is the Angels' main objective throughout the show, as Kaworu spells out. They seem to have only gone for Lilith until Adam showed up because she seemed vaguely like Adam and they hadn't detected the real deal yet.
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Jul 23, 2019 22:07
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Well Gaghiel was able to figure it out, and like Catfish said, past Episode 8 it almost doesn't matter, as both Adam and Lilith are in the same place for the most part. Maybe they always are depending on when you think Gendo put Adam in his hand.Tuxedo Catfish posted:except when Gendo is elsewhere. Whenever I do my next rewatch I'm going to need to check and see if he actually went on-location in the field in Magma Diver.)
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Jul 23, 2019 22:15
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Expect My Mom posted:Well Gaghiel was able to figure it out, and like Catfish said, past Episode 8 it almost doesn't matter, as both Adam and Lilith are in the same place for the most part I assume that before Episode 8, Adam was hidden in some sort of containment facility in America. Gaghiel was the first Angel who had a chance to detect her.
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Jul 23, 2019 22:16
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You're so easily baited by his gimmick, it's sad (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 23, 2019 22:40
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Tae posted:You're so easily baited by his gimmick, it's sad Oh, please. It's not like I have to be maliciously tricked into posting about Evangelion.
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Jul 23, 2019 22:46
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