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Fly Molo posted:Holy poo poo, that armor gives no fucks whatsoever. If you look there’s a good sized dent/crater along the center line of the airplane. The engine blocks in those were basically de facto AP penetrators. Still, yeah, it’s the equivalent of the cratering you get shooting 3/8 inch AR500 with .30-06 a tich closer than the manufacturer suggests.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:42
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Fly Molo posted:Holy poo poo, that armor gives no fucks whatsoever. That's from a British heavy cruiser, HMS Sussex. She had just a 1" belt (with ~4" over her magazines), making it even more impressive.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:53
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you look there’s a good sized dent/crater along the center line of the airplane. The engine blocks in those were basically de facto AP penetrators. This is actually really interesting...you'd think something like a plane flying into a ship would be a much bigger boom. I think that was a Ki-51, so assume that engine was 350kg and traveling at 125 m/s, that's about 2.7 megajoules. That's like a third of a modern 5" gun's muzzle energy. The USN's heavy 16" AP shells had a ME of around 350 megajoules. Granted they're not hitting that hard at the end of their trajectory, but still...
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Jul 24, 2019 16:57
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Jobbo_Fett posted:What if he had multiple suits like that? robin hood storms the castle and reaches the treasure only to find row upon row of crisp custom made suits. outside the sheriff laughs
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Jul 24, 2019 17:02
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bewbies posted:This is actually really interesting...you'd think something like a plane flying into a ship would be a much bigger boom. Airplanes are by design extremely light for their size. Most (especially of that era) are basically sheet metal over a lightweight frame with lots of empty space on the inside. The real danger (aside from any actual payload) is the fuel and the harder bits like the engine. So, yeah. 350kg at 125 m/s has more in common with a very large black powder cannon ball than any kind of modern ordinance.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:03
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Agean90 posted:robin hood storms the castle and reaches the treasure only to find row upon row of crisp custom made suits. outside the sheriff laughs Please use spoiler tags.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:26
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bewbies posted:This is actually really interesting...you'd think something like a plane flying into a ship would be a much bigger boom. it was enough for taffy 3 
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Jul 24, 2019 17:28
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Mr Enderby posted:It's been such a long time since we had a Robin Hood film that was just about a bunch of guys living in a big camp in the woods and getting into scrapes. I want to see a version of Robin Hood where it's just "Robin Hood, Little John, and Will Scarlet go on an adventure to rescue Maid Marian from the Sheriff of Nottingham's dungeon. Meanwhile Friar Tuck tricks the Bishop of Hereford out of a prize cheese, and Alan-a-Dale sings a song about a bee. Oh look I've found the one guy who watched the Jonas Armstrong/Keith Allen series right to the bitter end
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Jul 24, 2019 17:42
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Kamikaze attacks just seem like such a senseless waste of life and resources. Moreso than war normally is.Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Later in that scene they send up a flare to call in a trebuchet strike, seriously. Don't be ridiculous. It was catapults. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRzyGEzph8 It's definitely an aesthetic choice to do a movie with bows and arrows as assault rifles. Certainly if Robin Hood's "thing" is being really good with archery, it kinda makes sense to make a world that revolves more around it. Personally, I just don't get how Robin is supposed to both taking part in the crusades and be back in England dealing with the consequences of the king having gone off to the crusades at the same time. Best I can think is that it's a shallow ploy to tie in modern jingoism and anti-muslim sentiment into a story about wealth redistribution and a little monarchism.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:59
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SlothfulCobra posted:Kamikaze attacks just seem like such a senseless waste of life and resources. Moreso than war normally is. It's not a decision a country makes if it has a lot of good options left. But, as far as tradeoffs go, you're sacrificing a plane and pilot in exchange for having the chance to cripple or sink an enemy ship. If you're running g low on fuel and short of trained bombadiers....well, you know, it's easier to crash a plane into a ship than to drop a bomb on it.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:20
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SlothfulCobra posted:Kamikaze attacks just seem like such a senseless waste of life and resources. Moreso than war normally is. They also have a casino sequence. As in a straight-up casino with people in variants on modern clothing.  quote:Nottingham, a city rarely celebrated for its azure coastline, is re-imagined as a dusty Mediterranean fantasy with dreaming spires and exotically dressed clergy. Egerton plays Robin of Loxley as a fleet-footed rogue who can deliver arrows in implausible rapid fire. Like in Assassin’s Creed. It's not even an allegory. They just made a modern action film that had a medieval veneer over it and called it Robin Hood.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:29
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chitoryu12 posted:It's not even an allegory. They just made a modern action film that had a medieval veneer over it and called it Robin Hood. If you're doing that, why have the medieval veneer at all? Go full Baz Luhrmann and have Robin's skill be demonstrated with a fully modern Olympic style bow.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:36
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Davin Valkri posted:If you're doing that, why have the medieval veneer at all? Go full Baz Luhrmann and have Robin's skill be demonstrated with a fully modern Olympic style bow. Well we need to make this movie now.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:39
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Dig out the oldest Robin play and give it the Romeo + Juliet treatment.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:41
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Davin Valkri posted:If you're doing that, why have the medieval veneer at all? Go full Baz Luhrmann and have Robin's skill be demonstrated with a fully modern Olympic style bow. A straight up retelling where Robin is a kid from Texas or whatever* living in “Nottingham County” who gets shipped off to Iraq could be solid. Comes home to find the local sherif gone full corrupt rear end in a top hat and fights against the injustices using lessons in insurgent war learned on the flip side of the COIN . . . coin. *ooh! Make it Louisiana! Corrupt sherif totally believable and the bayous etc make for a good impenetrable and wild Nottingham Forest. Friar Tuck is a local liberation theology Catholic clergyman. Maid Mary-Ann (  ) is either a bad rear end country girl or daisy duke depending on how you want to play it. Alan-a-dale is a never-was country singer who topped out playing the local bar and is maybe a meth head. Because gently caress Alan-a-dale.Edit: Hollywood I’m available and can have a quick and dirty treatment by the end of the weekend.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:49
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I mocked up a quick shot of Redneck Robin:
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Jul 24, 2019 18:53
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Siivola posted:I mocked up a quick shot of Redneck Robin: Needs more mullet.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:56
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Cyrano4747 posted:A straight up retelling where Robin is a kid from Texas or whatever* living in “Nottingham County” who gets shipped off to Iraq could be solid. Comes home to find the local sherif gone full corrupt rear end in a top hat and fights against the injustices using lessons in insurgent war learned on the flip side of the COIN . . . coin. Walking Tall has already been made a couple of times, sorry man.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:01
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OneTruePecos posted:Roadhouse has already been made a couple of times, sorry man.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:03
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Alkydere posted:[quote="Epicurius" post="496971196"] It was a waste in the sense that the intention was to bleed the Americans enough to make them give up. But that was a completely wrong read, the Americans were ready to take millions of casualties, because that was the total war mindset and they'd adopted it just like everybody else. As the invasion of Japan loomed, both sides realized that the kamikaze strikes would have the most effect if directed at troopships, rather than warships. That would have been pure horror, the troopships were crowded, slow, and fragile.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:10
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Kamikazes seem to only have been a small amount more dangerous to their crews than conventional missions against those targets, and from the Japanese perspective their better hit chances meant that they were probably a less inefficient way of damaging American ships. Problem is they couldn't do nearly enough of that to get anything they wanted out of it, but that goes for their entire war.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:45
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mllaneza posted:That outfit is sharp as gently caress, although how he got it dry cleaned in the middle of a siege is the biggest anachronism in the whole movie. Who's that then? I dunno. Must be a king. Why? He hasn't got poo poo all over him.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:56
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When it comes to historical accuracy, the only bad part is the middle ground. Seriously presented period stereotypes are garbage. Either make something informed by real history, or give us something ridiculous.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:12
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i was so pissed when they started dancing to david bowie in a knights tale. they didn't even dance like that back then
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Jul 24, 2019 21:13
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xthetenth posted:Kamikazes seem to only have been a small amount more dangerous to their crews than conventional missions against those targets, and from the Japanese perspective their better hit chances meant that they were probably a less inefficient way of damaging American ships. Problem is they couldn't do nearly enough of that to get anything they wanted out of it, but that goes for their entire war. The real issue with their effectiveness is the same one that hampered their submarines: a focus on high-prestige surface combatants rather than boring poo poo like oilers, troop ships, and ammo ships. One of my grandfathers was on a troop ship that got hit off Leyte and the results were no bueno. 26 or so dead, ship delayed landing men and supplies for about a day iirc, and then it hosed off rather than work in a support role. Interestingly enough, all the dead were USCG crew. I guess the soldiers were far enough inside that they were OK, but the people up on the deck ate lot of airplane bits and burning poo poo.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:18
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My preferred take on Kamikazes was that they were the first anti-ship missiles (or cruise missiles) - they just substituted an unfortunate human pilot in place of the yet-to-be-invented guidance computer or teleoperator link. A tremendous waste, but no worse than pretty much everything else Japan did in 1944 and 1945. They probably lost more men to starvation and disease on a single bypassed Pacific island, or in a single unexceptional day of strategic bombing, than they did in the entirety of the Kamikaze campaign. And they inflicted quite a lot of damage: a approximately 2,800 Kamikaze attackers sank 34 Navy ships, damaged 368 others, killed 4,900 sailors, and wounded over 4,800 (per wikipedia). Not a bad return for the resources expended (mostly obsolete planes, 500 pound iron bombs, a single tank of avgas, no need to burn fuel for flight training, etc).
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Jul 24, 2019 21:31
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Cyrano4747 posted:A straight up retelling where Robin is a kid from Texas or whatever* living in “Nottingham County” who gets shipped off to Iraq could be solid. Comes home to find the local sherif gone full corrupt rear end in a top hat and fights against the injustices using lessons in insurgent war learned on the flip side of the COIN . . . coin. Make it Arizona and have Joe Arpaio feature as himself. He might actually be down for it.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:43
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Trin Tragula posted:Oh look I've found the one guy who watched the Jonas Armstrong/Keith Allen series right to the bitter end Honestly haven't seen it, but only because Keith Allen was a seriously not good guy to someone I know, and that has kind of put me off seeing him in anything ever. Otherwise, it looks like it would be up my street. Edit: ran into his son a few times, and he was pretty sound.
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Jul 24, 2019 22:02
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That Robin Hood film brings this to mind (:nsfw:): https://youtu.be/vEVJ_48YgTg
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Jul 24, 2019 22:05
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Make no more Robin Hood movies in honor of Alan Rickman’s masterpiece turn as the Sheriff of Nottingham
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Jul 24, 2019 22:26
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zoux posted:Make no more Robin Hood movies in honor of Alan Rickman’s masterpiece turn as the Sheriff of Nottingham He'll always be Obadiah Slope to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992UbveiTmE&t=1327s
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Jul 24, 2019 22:34
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FMguru posted:My preferred take on Kamikazes was that they were the first anti-ship missiles (or cruise missiles) - they just substituted an unfortunate human pilot in place of the yet-to-be-invented guidance computer or teleoperator link. FritzX was used operationally in '43, and the Allies used AZON bombs in '44, both predating the use of kamikazes. The USN Bat system was also well into development and would see action in '45. Kamikazes were late to the "guided missile" party.
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Jul 24, 2019 22:43
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FMguru posted:Not a bad return for the resources expended (mostly obsolete planes, 500 pound iron bombs, a single tank of avgas, no need to burn fuel for flight training, etc). I don't disagree with your ROI assessment, but the idea that you do not need to burn fuel for flight training is uhhh where do you think the pilots were coming from, exactly? They used greenhorns in most units but those guys still had (insufficient) stick time.
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Jul 24, 2019 22:48
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Gnoman posted:FritzX was used operationally in '43, and the Allies used AZON bombs in '44, both predating the use of kamikazes. The USN Bat system was also well into development and would see action in '45. Kamikazes were late to the "guided missile" party. I thought the Bat guidance system was never used...
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Jul 24, 2019 23:06
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sullat posted:I thought the Bat guidance system was never used... Not that Bat, This Bat.
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Jul 24, 2019 23:44
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The really big thing is that getting in close enough to launch a weapon was real hard, let alone getting home. So if the plane carrying out the strike is probably not coming home anyway, isn't it surviving the attack kind of negotiable? Plus, if all you've got is greenhorns, their skills at hitting with weapons are likely their worst skills. So sidestep that too.
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Jul 25, 2019 00:26
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washington news: still drinking https://twitter.com/MountVernon/status/1154013450940665857
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Jul 25, 2019 01:22
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also this is wrong and now i'm mad again https://twitter.com/alexdecampi/status/1153688492557393920 the new model army's red jackets were the first army wide use of uniforms in what is now the uk. as in the european wars regimental uniforms were already a thing, like the Marquis of Newcastle's regiment. These also aren't real uniforms, they're "proto uniforms;" as in, no identical cut and tailoring, people just wear a red jacket and the clothes they have on underneath can be anything. If the cut and make of several peoples' jackets are identical, that's more about how you source them than the desire to make the men identitcal. And even before the proto-uniforms of professional soldiers, city watch or bodies of bodyguards had them. This isn't deliberately "modernizing"--it was thought of as a kind of livery. The thing in this thread about Spain and cochineal dye is true though. It was worth about as much to the Spanish empire as the trade in gold, and that's what those red sashes Hapsburg officers wear are dyed with. They are literally wrapping themselves in their empire's product. It is, however, incorrect for the OP to talk so much about the symbolism of what the jackets were dyed with originally, when how you source replacements in the field might make that irrelevant HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 01:50
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MILITARY COSTUME* HISTORIAN FIGHT! *: probably wrong term for it.
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Jul 25, 2019 01:54
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the whole crisp parade ground aesthetic of a thousand identical dolls doing the same thing at the same time is a thing from the eighteenth century onward, the 17th is much...slouchier
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Jul 25, 2019 02:00
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