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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Eschenique posted:So this picture has been making the rounds. Average salary for all employees is going to be different than average salary for field organizers, who are generally on the lower end of the campaign hierarchy. Also, do those figures assume a 40 hour week?
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Jul 24, 2019 05:55
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She probably deserves a lot of the derision for thinking her hippy-dippy woo mentality is something that can work in 2019, but the sad fact is, that she has a more coherent ideology than most of the democratic field. (besides Bernie) Most of the rest of them are just opportunistic liberals with no actual passion or convictions about anything other than their own pursuit of power and the triangulation necessary to get there. It's sort of too bad she is discounted out of hand, because she actually has some interesting things to say about the psychological and political situation in the U.S. right now. By which I mean, I wouldn't ever vote for her, but I think she's worth listening to.
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Jul 24, 2019 06:01
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Eschenique posted:So this picture has been making the rounds.  are you going to lecture us on antisemitism in the labour party as well? whose rereg are you let's swap notes
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Jul 24, 2019 06:03
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Lightning Knight posted:It unfortunately doesn’t matter how this is resolved since people will only see the initial headline, but I don’t expect much to come of it. From the article, they don't know who filed it and it can be literally anyone, no rule says it has to be someone who worked for Bernie. But that bit's more than half way through of course.
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Jul 24, 2019 06:08
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:oh you just found that out did you really interesting thanks for bringing these tremendous facts to the thread's attention Yes I did. Because I was having an argument with a Conservative smugging about Bernie struggling to pay the minimum wage he himself loudly fights for. So I remembered that chart and prepared my best "well actually" but googled in the last minute just to be sure, and found that he might have been sorta right? And went here for confirmation in case there was some third dimension I missed before I actually return to that melee.
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Jul 24, 2019 06:12
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"Had to be dragged kicking and screaming" is definitely a neutral way to describe "standard negotiations took place and a fair alteration to the contract was made to account for the increased hours while not mucking up health insurance" and in no way engenders a suspicion of bad faith.
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Jul 24, 2019 06:16
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Epicurius posted:Average salary for all employees is going to be different than average salary for field organizers, who are generally on the lower end of the campaign hierarchy. Also, do those figures assume a 40 hour week? It also seems to gloss over the relative size of each campaign in terms of number of employees. If one employs a whole bunch of lower payed people, and another employs only a small core of advisers, that is going to skew the average pay. Svaha fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 06:24
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KIM JONG TRILL posted:https://twitter.com/BLaw/status/1153752825148727296?s=20 just a quick reminder that the guy google fired for being a sexist shithead and making his workplace more toxic for women and minorities fired an NLRB suit against google Eschenique posted:So this picture has been making the rounds. be careful of accepting the media's framing of this issue. in any other business or industry, what bernie was offering would be counted as $17/hr. suddenly the media cares about salaried workers working more than 40 hours though, so they're saying the workers were working for $13/hr. Also, there doesn't appear to be any fuss between the union for bernie's campaign and the management. the union certainly did not give the impression that bernie's campaign management was trying to keep them from getting $15/hr for the new working hours. as far as I'm aware, this is how it went down. the original union contract was $36k per year, which was around $17/hr. the management needed people to start working 50-60 hours per week, and apparently some people were doing so while the contract was being renegotiated to bump people's pay up for that. the contract negotiations were leaked to wapo, who framed things as "bernie pays people $13/hr and he doesn't want to pay more!!!!" pretty disingenuously. the contract negotiations completed recently and people are being paid more per year to work 50 hours a week. end of story Condiv fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 06:24
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:This would work and would be a lateral move from the content-free schlock we're forced to endure now. Excuse me I found the nonstop Barbara Trumpstock ads in 2018 incredibly insightful and fulfilling. I learned a lot about her voting habits, too. Gripweed posted:Yeah that would be fantastic. If any of the candidates polling under 1% want a serious shot of staying in the race, just loving haul back and punch Beto in the face. Doesn't even matter why. People are angry, and if a candidate would express anger through immediate, cathartic physical violence, that would resonate with Americans. I'm not even joking. I genuinely think a candidate could go surprisingly far on being the angry guy What about the undecided voters? Sure, this will rile up your base, but you'll push all those thoughtful, principled moderate conservatives straight into the GOP's outstretched arms! HootTheOwl posted:Probably as much as Obama believed in the public option. Hey now that ConEd outage last week that Cuomo had to respond to because he was in Iowa talking about corn or something wouldn't have happened if he were in charge of it. He's just being pragmatic. Serious question: Why is De Blasio so universally disliked? I only know a few things about him: he's v. tall, people don't like him, and he said some progressive sounding stuff at the first debate. So there are gaps in my knowledge.
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Jul 24, 2019 06:30
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Oh Snapple! posted:"Had to be dragged kicking and screaming" is definitely a neutral way to describe "standard negotiations took place and a fair alteration to the contract was made to account for the increased hours while not mucking up health insurance" and in no way engenders a suspicion of bad faith. I only communicate in hyperbole. It's in my nature. Condiv posted:just a quick reminder that the guy google fired for being a sexist shithead and making his workplace more toxic for women and minorities fired an NLRB suit against google That's actually fair.
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Jul 24, 2019 06:55
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Eschenique posted:Yes I did. Because I was having an argument with a Conservative smugging about Bernie struggling to pay the minimum wage he himself loudly fights for. So I remembered that chart and prepared my best "well actually" but googled in the last minute just to be sure, and found that he might have been sorta right? First of all, I would advise not to engage conservative shitbirds at all. But if you must, simply state the facts and leave it at that. Do not engage further, do not let him move the goalposts, just assert that he's wrong and that you won't hear any more of it. Don't waste your time.
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Jul 24, 2019 07:00
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Cool, cool. Well now that Condiv has set you straight I'll expand on that and give you some advice: Good advice. I only do it for practice and to help make sure my own views stays..... True? Truthful anyway. Through constant assault. And as a previous poster pointed out. The chart I linked was misleading and I should probably stop using it.
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Jul 24, 2019 07:09
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Eschenique posted:But now I found out that labour Unions had to drag Bernie kicking and screaming to get the staff wages increased from $13 an hour to $15 an hour? Lol. I wish could have seen that, all his staffers dragging him on the ground while he kicks and screams
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Jul 24, 2019 13:31
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https://medium.com/basic-income/there-is-no-policy-proposal-more-progressive-than-andrew-yangs-freedom-dividend-72d3850a6245 Scott Santens writes about Andrew Yang's Freedom Dividend. Scott Santens is a moderator of reddit.com/r/BasicIncome and a basic income advocate.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:18
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Corsair Pool Boy posted:Serious question: Why is De Blasio so universally disliked? I only know a few things about him: he's v. tall, people don't like him, and he said some progressive sounding stuff at the first debate. So there are gaps in my knowledge. As I understand it, his nominally progressive policies have been marred by a long history of corruption issues involving his administration, such as taking bribes via campaign donations and then doing the donors specific favors once he wins, actively soliciting campaign donations from people requesting favors and special treatment from the city, and so on. He offered Amazon billions of tax dollars and special treatment in his bid for Amazon HQ2, and then when they rejected NYC anyway because everyone who lived in NYC hated his offer, he railed against the rejection as an example of how concentration of wealth in the 1 percent was leading to arbitrary "abuse of corporate power" and that Amazon had "[left] the working class high and dry". It made all his progressive rhetoric feel incredibly fake. Aside from all that, there's the general problem all the mayors in the race are facing: unlike governors and legislators, mayors actually have some level of involvement and responsibility in the day-to-day running of their city. Being out on a presidential campaign means not being involved in local government, missing out on community involvement and events, and a high likelihood of being out of town when some kind of crisis happens. Even Mayor Pete has been bitten by that, and NYC is much bigger and more complicated than South Bend is. So there's a lot of general disapproval of mayors running for president; it's seen as ignoring the job they have and the community that elected them in order to go chase their ambitions instead.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:21
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Some important points: 13 million Americans receive nothing from the government at all The government takes time to determine disability, and there are many disabled people who the government determines can work who get nothing
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Jul 24, 2019 14:23
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smoke trees posted:https://medium.com/basic-income/there-is-no-policy-proposal-more-progressive-than-andrew-yangs-freedom-dividend-72d3850a6245 lmao quote:To emphasize this point, because it needs emphasizing, those who believe the entire existing welfare state should exist on top of the Freedom Dividend are demanding that we make everyone’s incentive to work even worse than the existing system already does. This dude's a dumb piece of poo poo.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:26
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I am on disability. There is a chance that the government could stop paying me disability. Then I am receiving nothing. If you disagree with me, you want me to starve to death on the street. Unfortunately many people either actively do or don't care.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:28
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smoke trees posted:I am on disability. There is a chance that the government could stop paying me disability. Then I am receiving nothing. Who do you support in the 2020 democratic primary
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Jul 24, 2019 14:41
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And don't say Bernie or I will be forced to disagree with you.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:41
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Calibanibal posted:And don't say Bernie or I will be forced to disagree with you. 
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Jul 24, 2019 15:20
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Calibanibal posted:Lol. I wish could have seen that, all his staffers dragging him on the ground while he kicks and screams Laying it on a little thick here
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Jul 24, 2019 15:23
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I'm supporting butt sweat and cheeto dust for president in 2020
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Jul 24, 2019 15:37
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Eschenique posted:Good advice. Just wanted to chime in and agree that engaging Trumpists in 2019 is extremely pointless unless you are shaming them in front of others.
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Jul 24, 2019 15:42
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Terror Sweat posted:Laying it on a little thick here it literally doesn't matter how obvious calibanibal makes it, people still fall for it
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Jul 24, 2019 16:05
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smoke trees posted:https://medium.com/basic-income/there-is-no-policy-proposal-more-progressive-than-andrew-yangs-freedom-dividend-72d3850a6245 It's no wonder he's a Yang supporter. After all, Scott Santens grifted Redditors into paying him $2k a month on Patreon so he could advocate a basic income on Reddit all day, claiming that living off consistent donations would be an object lesson in the excellence of a basic income. Grifters respect grift, after all.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:30
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Svaha posted:It also seems to gloss over the relative size of each campaign in terms of number of employees. If one employs a whole bunch of lower payed people, and another employs only a small core of advisers, that is going to skew the average pay. Also I doubt that unpaid interns are included as 0's in those averages.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:12
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Andrew Yang is currently hosting an AMA, and oh man does it display just how unserious his campaign is.quote:Q: What is your plan to get UBI passed through Congress? I’ve noticed Mitch McConnell and other republicans have an incredible amount of power to just block all legislation. How will you combat that? 
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Jul 24, 2019 17:17
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Ytlaya posted:Also I doubt that unpaid interns are included as 0's in those averages. well as glenn kessler helpfully pointed out a few weeks ago, people who have $0 should be discarded from any statistical analysis
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Jul 24, 2019 17:25
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1154048387316158464 There are 6 vacant units for every homeless American. https://twitter.com/Datoism/status/1154050195019067393 Bernie is more qualified on this issue and better positioned to tackle the actual problem, but the media will trumpet about the plan to treat the symptoms and not the causes.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:21
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SKULL.GIF posted:Bernie is more qualified on this issue and better positioned to tackle the actual problem, but the media will trumpet about the plan to treat the symptoms and not the causes. Is he running on the plan to intervene, decommoditize, and redistribute? How successful was he in these steps when he was the mayor of a town in Vermont? How possible would it be for a president to do any of this? I think the point Weigie Weigs is making is that Bernie's got rhetoric and Warren's making plans. If he's got plans, it'd be pretty simple for Bernie to just say that he's got plans. He's been running for president for 5 years.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:31
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The only plans Bernie is interested in are the house plans he looks at on zillow.com for his 4th vacation home
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Jul 24, 2019 18:36
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SKULL.GIF posted:https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1154048387316158464 Housing is perhaps the one area where Bernie is far more versed, from a technical perspective, than everyone else. Not only as the tweet implies there were some truly innovative policies when Bernie was mayor of Burlington, but the central tenet of Warren's plan is increasing the funds for the National Housing Trust Fund. Care to guess who was the first person to every introduce a bill creating a national housing trust fund? https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/hr2349 But because our god awful media is not only dishonest, but full of morons who can't grasp anything besides shallow optics of presentation, I doubt you'll see anyone mention that Warren's ingenious "plan" is just increasing the funds for something that Bernie was advocating for decades ago Chilichimp posted:Is he running on the plan to intervene, decommoditize, and redistribute? How successful was he in these steps when he was the mayor of a town in Vermont? How possible would it be for a president to do any of this? Maybe Bernie understands that having plans is secondary to the political fight and that there's no way to technically solving divergences of interests, maybe he has the base that he has precisely because he lays bare the inherent political struggle in improving people's lives, and maybe the media should actually report on who has actual bills in congress instead of taking a Lisa Simpson act at face value. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 18:45
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joepinetree posted:Maybe Bernie understands that having plans is secondary to the political fight and that there's no way to technically solving divergences of interests, maybe he has the base that he has precisely because he lays bare the inherent political struggle in improving people's lives, and maybe the media should actually report on who has actual bills in congress instead of taking a Lisa Simpson act at face value. Idk, maybe. Maybe Warren understands that political fights are secondary to having plans and that there are ways to redress divergences of interests, maybe she has the base that she has precisely because she lays bare plans to to improve peoples lives, and maybe the media should actually report on who's got actual plans AND BILLS in congress instead of taking a Bart Simpson act at face value.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:54
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:bernie: and  , one and the same
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Jul 24, 2019 18:56
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Chilichimp posted:Idk, maybe. The problem with your attempt at a witty argument here is that the bolded part is stupid and wrong on its loving face.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:57
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Eschenique posted:So this picture has been making the rounds. Sanders is management for his campaign. Within the context of his relationship to the union within his campaign, he more or less acted in good faith to renegotiate wages. The union did its job to gain concessions from management using the campaign’s unique vulnerability on the issue. The episode between Sanders and his union is largely ordinary. I also don’t understand the unfair labor practices charge brought up against him - his campaign is members’ jobs, they have an interest in making sure that this story is ultimately a positive story. Maybe this is something that the membership demanded, but it does seem confusing.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:58
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Chilichimp posted:Idk, maybe. "If warren doesn't have all the detailed plans, why do I think she does, huh?" In a world where Bernie has far more detailed plans than Warren, how the gently caress does this gibberish make any sense? Here, instead of lazily buying into nonsense media framing, do your own work: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357 Bills that Bernie has introduced, which includes medicare for all, free college, rise on the estate tax, tax on asset transfers, a bill to create a employee ownership bank to increase employee ownership of businesses, and one ensuring worker representation in corporate boards (this one is particularly great because it frequently gets touted as an example of Warren's technocratic leftism, but she is merely a co-sponsor in a bill that Bernie wrote). Meanwhile, here's Warren's bills: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=412542 Her student debt sort of forgiveness plan was only introduced yesterday. Other than that, it's mostly tweaks to existing legislation or regulations on banks. Which is fine. But on the big stuff, like healthcare, the economy, employee ownership, and yes, housing, she either has some half assed blurb on the website or she jumped on one of Bernie's bills. On her core campaign promises, she has either jumped on things that Bernie has written the bills for (M4A, National Housing Trust Fund, employee representation in corporate boards), written watered down versions of Bernie's bills (student debt), or blurbs on her website compared to Bernie's actual bills (her wealth tax is not a bill anywhere, whereas Bernie's asset transfer tax is a bill, same thing for college policy). As for her base, the best that she has gotten after non-ending fawning praise for months is 3rd place in the polls with a base that is nearly all white and rich. Behind Bernie, despite the same media's nonstop negative campaign against him. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 19:11
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Democrazy posted:Sanders is management for his campaign. Within the context of his relationship to the union within his campaign, he more or less acted in good faith to renegotiate wages. The union did its job to gain concessions from management using the campaign’s unique vulnerability on the issue. The episode between Sanders and his union is largely ordinary. Any individual can file a complaint with the NLRB, and one of the docket items under the filing is regarding wrongful termination, so it's possible someone was let go and they mad.
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Jul 24, 2019 19:15
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joepinetree posted:"If warren doesn't have all the detailed plans, why do I think she does, huh?" Very cool characterizations from a guy who described Elizabeth Warren as a "Lisa Simpson act".
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Jul 24, 2019 19:21
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