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I mean, altering the course of your entire life is just an elaborate way of committing suicide.
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Jul 25, 2019 10:35
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I loved the episode. Considering I'm the guy complaining about Farouk tricking Syd, it was nice to hear her admit that she finally understood how hosed the situation was. Too bad David's too far into his time travel plan to forgive. It's always weird to me when someone with Godly powers like David exists in a plot and decides that plot armor (or plot weakness) will still let Lenny kill herself and Kerry only get shockwaved instead of exploded. In the same vein, I didn't feel much remorse for Clark and his relationship. Like, they were trying to make it super sad and painful that his husband had his memory wiped enough to forget who Clark was but since Clark ends up dead in the same episode, the sting kinda went away pretty quickly. He wallowed in sadness for less than an hour and then got spaced. So, like, yeah, whatever. He was a dick in Season 1 anyway. Seeing as how David's personality is now officially split into Legion (despite the fact it's probably been that way his whole life) the only good end I can see is one where his personalities are merged back into a singular, innocent David at the cost of his power. I actually wouldn't be too surprised if that Pokeball was, in fact, grabbing the most lucid and singular David from the end of Season 1 to fight the final form of Legion. My only problem then would be... what happened to this guy? 
DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 12:06
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Hakkesshu posted:It's very easy to read this whole show as a takedown of toxic masculinity; he feels like he deserves everything because ?? he was traumatized as a child? I know it's a weird shadow demon but a lot of people have been tortured, abused, and oppressed throughout their whole lives and their response to that is not to make everything in the world about you. But at the same time it's also tragic, because of course you can understand why David is the way he is, there is just no one left who can contain him or help him - and yet, all his actions were made for completely selfish, thoughtless reasons that show a complete lack of empathy for anyone around him, because he is just that afraid of being unloved. Uh, that has nothing to do with toxic masculinity. He is certainly toxic, but gender roles have nothing to do with it.
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Jul 25, 2019 12:41
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Uh, that has nothing to do with toxic masculinity. He is certainly toxic, but gender roles have nothing to do with it. You will extremely have to explain why they don't, considering rape is the catalyst of what is going on right now.
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Jul 25, 2019 12:47
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Feels more like male privilege than toxic masculinity to me, but idk
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Jul 25, 2019 12:53
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rapeface posted:Feels more like male privilege than toxic masculinity to me, but idk One leads to the other  Edit: I'm not saying toxic masculinity as in he's a loving MRA pick-up artist or something, just that it's absolutely part of why his relationship with Syd went the way it did. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 13:12
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Hakkesshu posted:One leads to the other More than his crippling mental illnesses and world class PTSD?
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Jul 25, 2019 13:31
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Rocksicles posted:More than his crippling mental illnesses and world class PTSD? Why would they be mutually exclusive
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Jul 25, 2019 13:33
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Hakkesshu posted:Why would they be mutually exclusive Last time i checked, toxic masculinity isn't a mental illness.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:38
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Rocksicles posted:Last time i checked, toxic masculinity isn't a mental illness. Last time I checked, people who exhibit this behaviour aren't required to be of sound mental health.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:39
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Rocksicles posted:Last time i checked, toxic masculinity isn't a mental illness. It's a sign of other types of metal illnesses.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:41
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I don't recognise much toxic masculinity in David. He's a misogynist arsehole with mental problems and a god complex, but he's not toxically masculine. Nobody on the show is tbh.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:42
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ok maybe i'm missing some kind of definition here where toxic masculinity and misogyny are two widely different concepts instead of intrinsically connected
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Jul 25, 2019 13:44
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Necrothatcher posted:I don't recognise much toxic masculinity in David. He's a misogynist arsehole with mental problems and a god complex, but he's not toxically masculine. Nobody on the show is tbh. that's right daddy! yeah, you tell them daddy! we love you daddy
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Jul 25, 2019 13:45
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dude literally has a loving harem of female love slaves but no, it's not about gender
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Jul 25, 2019 13:47
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You can be toxically masculine and a weapons grade mysogynist without having a single mental illness, being an arsehole isn't a diagnosis
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Jul 25, 2019 13:48
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Rocksicles posted:You can be toxically masculine and a weapons grade mysogynist without having a single mental illness, being an arsehole isn't a diagnosis I have no idea what your point is, so he can't be any of these things because he's mentally ill?
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Jul 25, 2019 13:50
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Hakkesshu posted:dude literally has a loving harem of female love slaves but no, it's not about gender i swear a few of them were men, but yeah it was like 95% female
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Jul 25, 2019 13:53
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Hakkesshu posted:I have no idea what your point is, so he can't be any of these things because he's mentally ill? No, but you seem to be glazing over the fact that he's so mentally ill and murderous , it beggars belief. But him being toxically masculine is what sticks out as something to hang your hat on.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:54
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Rocksicles posted:No, but you seem to be glazing over the fact that he's so mentally ill and murderous , it beggars belief. But him being toxically masculine is what sticks out as something to hang your hat on. When the loving gently caress did I say his mental illness wasn't a part of it, I'm talking about one aspect of the character here Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 13:55
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Hakkesshu posted:When the loving gently caress did I say his mental illness wasn't a part of it, I'm talking about one aspect of the character here "It's very easy to read this whole show as a takedown of toxic masculinity; he feels like he deserves everything because ?? he was traumatized as a child?"
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Jul 25, 2019 13:58
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Rocksicles posted:"It's very easy to read this whole show as a takedown of toxic masculinity; he feels like he deserves everything because ?? he was traumatized as a child?" He feels that way because he is mentally ill, you dunce, not sure why i have to spell out that a character's actions are related to his mental illness in this, a show about mental illness. Edit: And before you say "Mmm aha! But you just said it was about toxic masculinity!" - a show can be about multiple things Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 14:04
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Hakkesshu posted:He feels that way because he is mentally ill, you dunce, not sure why i have to spell out that a character's actions are related to his mental illness in this, a show about mental illness. Don't back up your truck now. Your question marks imply you are challenging this as an unjustifiable reason for his supposed toxic masculinity. I challenged you because he wasn't like that with Syd until his brain snapped and only for a moment and even then it's more about him having a power fetish in general over a power fetish over her. All the other stuff mentioned has happened since then, and other than sexy male and female hippys with daddy issues, there really isn't much evidence of him being anything other then a very ill dude with a god complex and epic magic powers. We on the same page?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:12
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Rocksicles posted:Don't back up your truck now. Your question marks imply you are challenging this as an unjustifiable reason for his supposed toxic masculinity. I challenged you because he wasn't like that with Syd until his brain snapped and only for a moment and even then it's more about him having a power fetish in general over a power fetish over her. All the other stuff mentioned has happened since then, and other than sexy male and female hippys with daddy issues, there really isn't much evidence of him being anything other then a very ill dude with a god complex and epic magic powers. The show overtly implied this season that his love of Syd was driven by his rather ravenous desire to be loved by a woman from the very moment they first saw one another.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:17
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Hakkesshu posted:The show overtly implied this season that his love of Syd was driven by his rather ravenous desire to be loved by a woman from the very moment they first saw one another. By anyone, Syd just happened to be A: A women and B: interested in him He was never anything than friendly non toxic aside from the obvious toxic nature of their drug and mental illnesses relationship with Lenny.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:18
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bring back old gbs posted:i swear a few of them were men, but yeah it was like 95% female There’s the guy who named Switch and got dropped off the airship but I think that’s it?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:20
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Rocksicles posted:By anyone, Syd just happened to be A: A women and B: interested in him ... yes?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:20
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Hakkesshu posted:... yes? Syd was placed in his way to gain his trust and she fell in love with him. I'm not sure what your point is anymore, you fancy swinging your bat?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:24
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Rocksicles posted:Syd was placed in his way to gain his trust and she fell in love with him. I'm not sure what your point is anymore, you fancy swinging your bat? I still don't know what your point is, so I guess we're good. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 14:29
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Hakkesshu posted:I still don't know what your point is. That the whole show is about a takedown of toxic masculine is a line you drew through a map and are convinced it's a road. I don't understand how you get there without tripping over more reasonable theories. Hakkesshu posted:It's very easy to read this whole show as a takedown of toxic masculinity; he feels like he deserves everything because ?? he was traumatized as a child? I know it's a weird shadow demon but a lot of people have been tortured, abused, and oppressed throughout their whole lives and their response to that is not to make everything in the world about you. But at the same time it's also tragic, because of course you can understand why David is the way he is, there is just no one left who can contain him or help him - and yet, all his actions were made for completely selfish, thoughtless reasons that show a complete lack of empathy for anyone around him, because he is just that afraid of being unloved.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:41
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Rocksicles posted:That the whole show is about a takedown of toxic masculine is a line you drew through a map and are convinced it's a road. I don't understand how you get there without tripping over more reasonable theories. Again, it is not JUST that, and I don't think it cancels out other themes and ideas like you seem to be continually implying.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:46
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Hakkesshu posted:Again, it is not JUST that, and I don't think it cancels out other themes and ideas like you seem to be continually implying. the whole show... this is what i'm stuck on. You over reached to make a point. You said it is absolutely a reason him and Syd went bye bye. You are being very surefooted about a theory, i'm giving you a page to roll back your hyperbole and you are doubling down. I've never once said it isn't what you are saying, i'm just pushing you to give it some actual thought.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:55
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Toxic internet I-have-to-show-how-right-I-am can be just as bad as toxic masculinity so could we, after a page of this, maybe just move on? We're all suitably impressed by how woke and/or correct you both are.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:02
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i'm having a conversation with someone who is obviously intelligent, i'd like to explore this without it getting political or childish. We seem to be doing ok so far.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:04
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Rocksicles posted:the whole show... this is what i'm stuck on. You over reached to make a point. You said it is absolutely a reason him and Syd went bye bye. You are being very surefooted about a theory, i'm giving you a page to roll back your hyperbole and you are doubling down. I've never once said it isn't what you are saying, i'm just pushing you to give it some actual thought. This whole argument started because you evidently took my reading as erasing or diminishing the effects his mental illness had on his actions, which I have now said multiple times was not what I meant, so I have no idea what else you want me to say. ashpanash posted:Toxic internet I-have-to-show-how-right-I-am can be just as bad as toxic masculinity so could we, after a page of this, maybe just move on? We're all suitably impressed by how woke and/or correct you both are. I don't really fancy spending another page arguing over this, but: gently caress off.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:13
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Hakkesshu posted:This whole argument started because you evidently took my reading as erasing or diminishing the effects his mental illness had on his actions, which I have now said multiple times was not what I meant, so I have no idea what else you want me to say. Fair enough, i'll let it go. Good stuff though.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:18
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for what its worth i cant think of any examples of toxic masculinity displayed by david......hes very sensitive and emotional. not a lot of alpha posturing from this broken boy. i dont think hes worried at all about his perceived manliness
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Jul 25, 2019 15:51
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Hakkesshu posted:I don't really fancy spending another page arguing over this, but: gently caress off. Rocksicles posted:Fair enough, i'll let it go. Good stuff though. Thank you to you both.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:56
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Loved the episode start to finish. I think whoever pointed out how great the subtlety they use to express Farouk and David's powers was spot on. The first scene with David and the bus was a good example of this. I enjoyed Lenny's exit, I'm glad there was a payoff from the last episode. I thought it was a great counterpoint to David's "we'll just go back in time and fix everything" argument. Lenny was finally able to find something good and she refused to let him erase it. I agree with whoever noted that they failed to follow up on David's sister being inside her still which is a shame, maybe they couldn't get the actor who played her to come back? I thought they wrapped up Clark's arc really well and kudos to that actor. I remember thinking he was great in the first episode then forgetting about him only to have him come back in the season one finale with a great backstory but I figured he's probably not going to be relevant going forward but nope Division 3 team up and he's been killing it ever since. I could listen to him sarcastically pick apart other people's lies all day. They continue to kill it with their song selection and musical numbers. The last scene reminded me of a similar one in a UK series called Skins where one of the leads sings Wild World by Cat Stevens at the end of the finale. DaveKap posted:I loved the episode. Considering I'm the guy complaining about Farouk tricking Syd, it was nice to hear her admit that she finally understood how hosed the situation was. Too bad David's too far into his time travel plan to forgive. I appreciate your contributions to the thread as it has made me consider angles and theories I otherwise might not have. I had a different interpretation of the interaction between Syd and David. I believe she was telling him what he wanted to hear so she could get close enough to touch him and switch bodies. The reason I believe this to be the case is her calm reaction when David tells her Farouk betrayed them: "he didn't like our plan". I don't think Syd has ever trusted Farouk just saw him as a necessary evil to combat David and prevent the end of the world. That doesn't mean there wasn't truth in her words but I don't think it's exactly what she believes. Remember we don't know if we're still in that timeline or if Future Syd was able to change things or if that's even what she meant to do? Farouk is still alive so if we take Future Syd at her word they haven't reached her time period yet or are on a different track. I think your theory on how they could potentially end the series has merit and I wouldn't mind if they went that route but I think there are a number of ways they could choose to go. We have three episodes left right? Given it's Legion a whole lot could still happen. Levin fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 16:16
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AtraMorS posted:Like Syd tried to argue, it's an argument that only works from David's POV. The Syd that fell in love and everything else is going to be utterly unmade; her consciousness will stop, no different than dying. But that box already opened in the first episode of the season when Switch undid David's death. Syd is already erased. So is David. Time travel and souls don't really mesh. So if Switch went back in time to the last 15 minutes of season 2 and kicked David in the nuts then from David and Syds perspective everything would be fine and David would still be with the Syd he knows.
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