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MiddleOne posted:If your key interest playing your probably first 3D game in the 90's was binging NPC dialogue rather than interacting with the world then maybe you went into it with the wrong expectations? The game doesn't force you into any of the NPC dialogue. In what world do you think Ocarina of Time was people's first 3D game, when it came out two years after Super Mario 64, which was for a long time one of like under 5 games for the N64? Like, even Mega Man Legends came out before Ocarina of Time. It was not a particularly early game by any stretch.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:20
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food court bailiff posted:In what world do you think Ocarina of Time was people's first 3D game, when it came out two years after Super Mario 64, which was for a long time one of like under 5 games for the N64? Like, even Mega Man Legends came out before Ocarina of Time. It was not a particularly early game by any stretch. Did you spend your first hour in Super Mario 64 reading signs? I didn't, neither did I (or most people I suspect) play Ocarina that way.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:23
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MiddleOne posted:Did you spend your first hour in Super Mario 64 reading signs? I didn't, neither did I (or most people I suspect) play Ocarina that way. Because, as previously established, you couldn't. What's your point? E: please go back and check the last page, it's not just me that thinks this. I mean come the gently caress on dude.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:25
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MiddleOne posted:If your key interest playing your probably first 3D game in the 90's was binging NPC dialogue rather than interacting with the world then maybe you went into it with the wrong expectations? The game doesn't force you into any of the NPC dialogue.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:27
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This seems to boil down to "The game presents itself in a way it wants you to engage with, and if you do what it apparently wants, it's boring as poo poo for an unacceptably long time, while if you just tell it to gently caress off (or don't know/care what it seems to want you to do) and go your own way, you can dive into the fun immediately." Which frankly makes Ocarina of time sound like a Bethesda game.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:28
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Talking to people isn't interacting with the world? Not if you're bored by it and feels it takes time, which is the problem food court was describing. At no point beyond getting waved at by your neighbor does the game guide you towards talking to people. If you run around and explore you get shiny rupees with reward sounds, if you talk you get nothing. The shopkeeper is the only NPC that rewards you for talking and the NPCs that you actually need to talk to all block your way. The game does the same thing if you wander into Lost Woods. Navigating it is a chore, so you quickly stop and turn around if you don't understand its gimmick. You can of course spend a long time in there, but the game doesn't encourage it and leaves it up to the player. marshmallow creep posted:This seems to boil down to "The game presents itself in a way it wants you to engage with, and if you do what it apparently wants, it's boring as poo poo for an unacceptably long time, while if you just tell it to gently caress off (or don't know/care what it seems to want you to do) and go your own way, you can dive into the fun immediately." Which frankly makes Ocarina of time sound like a Bethesda game.  
MiddleOne has a new favorite as of 16:36 on Jul 26, 2019 |
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Jul 26, 2019 16:29
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MiddleOne posted:Not if you're bored by it and feels it takes time, which is the problem food court was describing. At no point beyond getting waved at by your neighbor does the game guide you towards talking to people. If you run around and explore you get shiny rupees with reward sounds, if you talk you get nothing. The shopkeeper is the only NPC that rewards you for talking and the NPCs that you actually need to talk to all block your way. "At no point does the game direct you towards talking to NPCs except for the NPCs you need to talk to that hinder your progress" is not exactly a great point.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:35
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food court bailiff posted:"At no point does the game direct you towards talking to NPCs except for the NPCs you need to talk to that hinder your progress" is not exactly a great point.  What are you missing here. Stuff that you need to do: In your way and impossible to avoid, forces you to explore. Optional stuff for some people: Not encouraged by the game to interact with if you don't want to.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:37
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Uncharted 2 has a nice hook with you shot in the gut while hanging over the edge of a cliff, then flashing back and having you break into a museum to steal an artifact. I think that's about half an hour.
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Jul 26, 2019 17:23
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Conversely fallout 3's intro is just about the worst intro of any video game ever, nearly edging out mgsv
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Jul 26, 2019 17:25
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MiddleOne posted:
MiddleOne posted:I did and I was like 7 and incapable of reading english. Is it possible you are biased on this one because you couldnt have understood anything the NPCs said even if you wanted to, so you just ran past everyone most people playing in a language they understood would have felt they should talk to because thats how you get story in a game like this? Edit to add: Calaveron posted:Conversely fallout 3's intro is just about the worst intro of any video game ever, nearly edging out mgsv At least Fallout 3 (and New Vegas) had the decency to have a hard save point at the end of their intro which let you remake your entire character. So you never needed to replay it again. Just load your end of tutorial level save, set your skills and abilities and whatnot for your new characters, dive straight into the start of the game proper. SiKboy has a new favorite as of 17:28 on Jul 26, 2019 |
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Jul 26, 2019 17:25
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SiKboy posted:Is it possible you are biased on this one because you couldnt have understood anything the NPCs said even if you wanted to, so you just ran past everyone most people playing in a language they understood Ocarina gives you all the story you need in the opening 4 minutes. There's a bad dude on a horse, a princess in need of help and a fairy bothering you to leave your dinky village and do something about it. That's your hook. It's a premise so simple you don't even need to be able to read to understand it, incidentally Super Mario 64 does the same thing but on hyperspeed. Both games actively steer you away from reading text in the opening area by putting more meaningful distractions all over the place. quote:would have felt they should talk to because thats how you get story in a game like this? Ok, quick poll people arguing with me. How old were you when you played Ocarina? Why were you playing this game like it was Fallout? I'm genuinely curious. MiddleOne has a new favorite as of 17:41 on Jul 26, 2019 |
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Jul 26, 2019 17:39
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I might be overestimating but I feel like within 30 minutes, if you're not a coward, you can at least get to killing your wife in an axe fight and then shooting her in the head, playing Resident Evil 7.
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Jul 26, 2019 17:41
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RareAcumen posted:I might be overestimating but I feel like within 30 minutes, if you're not a coward, you can at least get to killing your wife in an axe fight and then shooting her in the head, playing Resident Evil 7. Pretty easily, yeah. The whole game is doable in under four hours pretty comfortably.
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Jul 26, 2019 17:44
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RareAcumen posted:I might be overestimating but I feel like within 30 minutes, if you're not a coward, you can at least get to killing your wife in an axe fight and then shooting her in the head, playing Resident Evil 7.
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Jul 26, 2019 17:50
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MiddleOne posted:Ocarina gives you all the story you need in the opening 4 minutes. There's a bad dude on a horse, a princess in need of help and a fairy bothering you to leave your dinky village and do something about it. That's your hook. It's a premise so simple you don't even need to be able to read to understand it, incidentally Super Mario 64 does the same thing but on hyperspeed. Both games actively steer you away from reading text in the opening area by putting more meaningful distractions all over the place. There are like twelve NPCs in kakariko and like half of them shout at you as you run past. It does not "actively steer you away from reading text" at all, even a little bit.
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Jul 26, 2019 18:14
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RareAcumen posted:I might be overestimating but I feel like within 30 minutes, if you're not a coward, you can at least get to killing your wife in an axe fight and then shooting her in the head, playing Resident Evil 7. Oh she just gets like that when I leave the toilet seat up again, its fine.
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Jul 26, 2019 18:32
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I think that we can probably agree that Ocarina of Time had a weird (for the time) control scheme on an even weirder controller and the game's slow opening was likely intentionally added to give the player an opportunity to get their bearings with all of that. On repeat playthroughs it's going to feel slow and plodding, as you really don't need it anymore.
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Jul 26, 2019 18:49
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More Intruders Have entered The complex Master
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Jul 26, 2019 19:04
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Vic posted:More Woosh. WAAAAAAH!!!! Wake up. Wake up, you. We have to get out of here. I can still quote the opening line by line and it's been... 19 years already holy loving shitballs I'm getting old. Still my favourite game of all time, though.
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Jul 26, 2019 19:42
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I don't think Ocarina of Time has a great intro, but having played it fairly recently in the form of randomisers, the "cutting down bushes/throwing pots to grind for money" bit is not as bad as I once thought it was. There are, I think, enough rupees hidden around the map that I actually think it's a fairly nice way to get you exploring and used to the controls. There's probably too much text but I've always had a special fondness for *grumble grumble*. If there's a single bit I never look forward to in OoT it would have to be the bottom of the well. I've done it so many times and know exactly where to go, but somehow there's always one fake floor that I always fall for!
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Jul 26, 2019 20:10
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Taeke posted:They act sooner than we had anticipated. No matter, they will only prove a slight delay. Pretender.
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Jul 26, 2019 20:30
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They're making BG3 and I'm wondering how much of what I feel for the series is nostalgia. They somehow need to make a modern RPG that somehow allows you to find a loophole to every goddamn fight in the game. Also the moral question of "but is it right to kill all these people in order to stop the killing" needs to have the answer of "gently caress yeah and I'll kill you too if you disagree" Child of bhaal everyone!
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Jul 26, 2019 20:42
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Hedgehog Pie posted:There are, I think, enough rupees hidden around the map that I actually think it's a fairly nice way to get you exploring and used to the controls. It's one of the nicer parts of the design. Jump across the blocks in the pond, rupees. Climb something, rupees. Investigate the houses, rupees. Find the sword? Almost everything you can cut contains rupees or has wacky n64 physics. And it's all strung together with the carrot of the shield being held over you. BOTW obviously does it better in every way but I think the game managed much for all the limitations and lack of design traditions that it was operating under. 
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Jul 26, 2019 20:52
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How would Ocarina have fared on the PS1? Loading-times would have been worse, everything else better.
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Jul 26, 2019 20:58
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Inspector Gesicht posted:How would Ocarina have fared on the PS1? Loading-times would have been worse, everything else better. Was the dualshock out by then?
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Jul 26, 2019 21:07
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Len posted:Was the dualshock out by then? The DualShock came out in Japan about a year before, and about five months before in the US, Ocarina of Time.
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Jul 26, 2019 21:25
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AngryRobotsInc posted:The DualShock came out in Japan about a year before, and about five months before in the US, Ocarina of Time. Then for sure better
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Jul 26, 2019 21:27
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i think the term "metroidvania" drags down every game the word is associated with.
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Jul 26, 2019 21:30
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Inspector Gesicht posted:How would Ocarina have fared on the PS1? Loading-times would have been worse, everything else better. OoT with load times between areas would be unplayable.
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Jul 26, 2019 21:43
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spit on my clit posted:i think the term "metroidvania" drags down every game the word is associated with. i like it because it instantly lets me know if i'm going to like the game or not
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Jul 26, 2019 21:45
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I decided to re-pickup on Graveyard Keeper because of Reasons (mostly the DLC promising some automation features and an increased inventory capacity, two things I'm pretty sure I posted about previously). Ugh. It's not that the game is grindy that bothers me - poo poo, give me a grind and a podcast or two and I'll knock out anything you want - it's that there's so many steps for practically everything you have to do, and rarely do you have time to do it all, or even most of it. According to the game's wiki, each day is 7 and a half minutes long, real-time. That's basically half the real-time length of a Stardew Day, which leads to a lot of things not being done. You can forget the notion of doing a few things in a day, you're lucky if you can do one thing (or wait for one thing to get done) before the end of the night. I suppose it's balanced by never passing out when it gets too late, like in Stardew, but once you've drained your energy that way, you're either done for the day or waiting for food to be cooked to keep going. late edit: it doesn't help that I've got the personal memory of a goldfish, so the beginning of every in-game day is usually "wait, what was I doing?" It's just... I want to like this game. It's charming as hell, and there's a lot of play-one-more-day things. But the amount of stuff I want to get done versus the time allotted sucks. even later edit: I don't know if this is justified to whine about, but one of the updates to the game put a stone deposit closer to your house than the previous one was. It's closer and makes it earlier to schelp stone from there to your home... but the game doesn't tell you (and you aren't going to go in that vicinity too often, because there's Nothing There), so a lot of your busywork is obviated. Only found that out after I had done the busywork. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 03:40 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 26, 2019 22:27
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spit on my clit posted:i think the term "metroidvania" drags down every game the word is associated with. I know it's a Sisyphean struggle at this point, but I've come to hate the term because it encompasses a genre that's grown so broad as to be meaningless. Personally I want more Metroid games, not Metroidvanias. 
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Jul 27, 2019 00:12
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John Murdoch posted:I know it's a Sisyphean struggle at this point, but I've come to hate the term because it encompasses a genre that's grown so broad as to be meaningless. Personally I want more Metroid games, not Metroidvanias. Well, Wayforward made a Mummy game, you can find it on any modern platform. It looks like Metroid, but good, so its worth a shot
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Jul 27, 2019 00:16
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spit on my clit posted:Well, Wayforward made a Mummy game, you can find it on any modern platform. It looks like Metroid, but good, so its worth a shot That game is rad. It has a few flaws (no double jump upgrade--you cling to ceilings instead; and the death mechanic, though interesting, can cause some frustration if you die in certain locations). They also did a similar thing for Aliens: Infestation on the DS. That game also ruled hard... my only complaints for that one being it was too easy to truly capitalize on THAT game's death mechanic and that some bosses had bad difficulty curves.
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Jul 27, 2019 01:39
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Taeke posted:I can still quote the opening line by line and it's been... 19 years already holy loving shitballs I'm getting old. Stand up... there you go. You were dreaming. What's your name?" "Well, not even last night's storm could wake you. I heard them say we've reached Morrowind, I'm sure they'll let us go." "Quiet, here comes the guard."
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Jul 27, 2019 02:18
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This is where I get off
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Jul 27, 2019 03:13
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Strom Cuzewon posted:And, as maligned as it is, Irenicus Dungeon at the start of BG2 is loving fantastic. You get a simple little dungeon crawl, a scenery chewing villain, some incredibly hosed up evil wizard poo poo, it's fantastic. Just a heads up: there's a mod called Dungeon Be Gone that lets you skip it.
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Jul 27, 2019 04:05
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Invisible treasure chests mean that you either completely miss most of them, or waste time using the item finder on places where there are none.
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Jul 27, 2019 04:06
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This isn’t really a thing dragging a game down so much as something I’d like to see in games with cooking. I’m playing Breath of the Wild and really enjoying the exploring and experimenting with different recipes. I’m playing as blind as possible so I don’t ruin that feeling of discovery, but I did have to look up the solution to one of shrines. In the comment section someone mentioned cooking five durian to make the ultimate health boosting food and I felt kind of cheated that I didn’t stumble across that recipe myself. It got me thinking how it would be cool if things like food recipes could be randomized for each player, especially in a game like BotW where there are hundreds of different ingredients. I don’t know a whole lot about programming, but couldn’t there be a way to save a seed of some sort when the player first starts the game that randomizes which ingredients go into making recipes? Of course there would have to be safeties in place, like a single apple shouldn’t be all that’s needed for the +20 hearts recipe, or a basic healing dish shouldn’t require something incredibly rare. I don’t know, maybe a lot of people would hate that idea, but I think it would be fun to stumble across the ultimate health boosting food by randomly mixing a banana, an apple, two Hyrulian bass, and a cricket or whatever. Even make it a choice at the beginning of the game. Do you want standard recipes that the internet is going to have figured out six minutes after the game is released? Or play with random? For a thing actually dragging down the cooking aspect of BotW, I get really irritated when a major ingredient gets lost in the final dish. If I put a bass, two apples, and a mushroom in the pot I’ll get a vegetable skewer or a baked fruit dish or something. With no mention of the fish. Where’s my fruit and mushroom soup drat it?! I know I’m getting real picky here, but I guess what I’m saying is I hope Nintendo makes the cooking more robust in the next Zelda game.
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