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Well, if you were waiting for conversion numbers to see if Hogaak was actually oppressively good or just over-represented, it looks like it is the former. What would these numbers have looked like with Bridge from Below still around? 40% Hogaak? https://twitter.com/MTGGoldfish/status/1155075408733229056
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Jul 27, 2019 15:19
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Wizards should do a "what-if" month every now and then to see what a format could potentially look like for a short period of time as a trial run. I would like a What-If Month of looting and stirrings banned, and if the format seems better for it then make it permanent.
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Jul 27, 2019 15:32
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Panzeh posted:Yes. I was making fun of people thinking brainstorm and wasteland are genius cards. They are but I can clearly see you aren't at the genius level to appreciate them.
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Jul 27, 2019 15:32
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70% conversion rate despite having opponents maindecking narrow hate that's worthless in any other matchup ~healthy metagame~
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Jul 27, 2019 15:36
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Modern seems like it isn’t far from being in a good place. Last mc was great and I think if you ban hogaak this format would be fun too. U/W, humans, jund and chalice decks are all in a good place even if looting stays but the hogaak decks go and that seems like a good format to me.
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Jul 27, 2019 16:07
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The kind of aggro deck you’re pining for flat out doesn’t exist in Modern right now. As it turns out decks that can’t beat a resolved Batterskull happen to be pretty mediocre against everything else running around in Modern. But Stoneforge Mystic might actually help give that kind of deck a shot in the arm because, hey, the best decks for Swords very often end up being decks that want to swing sideways a bunch!
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Jul 27, 2019 16:21
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TheKingofSprings posted:The kind of aggro deck you’re pining for flat out doesn’t exist in Modern right now. As it turns out decks that can’t beat a resolved Batterskull happen to be pretty mediocre against everything else running around in Modern. are you sitting on 50 SFMs you can't unload? because you've been squealing about it being unbanned for years now
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Jul 27, 2019 16:28
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Lone Goat posted:are you sitting on 50 SFMs you can't unload? because you've been squealing about it being unbanned for years now Stoneforge Mystic is one of my favorite cards 
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Jul 27, 2019 16:42
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I hope we just get some kind of utility hoser card for Hogaak in Eldraine, because they're not banning Looting and another six months of this same conversation might actually kill me. Be extra great if it was a Spirit too, thanks in advance WOTC.
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Jul 27, 2019 16:47
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TheKingofSprings posted:Stoneforge Mystic is one of my favorite cards Stoneforge mystic is a boring rear end 4/4 lifelink.
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Jul 27, 2019 16:53
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Pro players "generating five figures in sales" based on their deck techs, is this what people were talking about with the OP scene as a driver https://twitter.com/SamuelHBlack/status/1154986279047696384
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Jul 27, 2019 17:02
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Pro players "generating five figures in sales" based on their deck techs, is this what people were talking about with the OP scene as a driver A single deck tech of which there are several, back when they used to broadcast events frequently. Imagine if they advertised 20 events and generated $50k in additional sales from promotions, that'd be an additional $1,000,000 in sales a year. That being said, what Sam doesn't get is the cost of OP vs. the cost of supporting streamers is probably way better value for WotC. I wish that wasn't exactly the case but it likely is. Magic is better as a paper product but it is probably more popular in the Arena digital format.
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Jul 27, 2019 17:07
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SFM should be unbanned but if you think it wouldn't be super impactful you're nuts. Also, the only decks in Modern that are super interested in playing SFM are probably aggro decks or d&t style decks. Maybe the Bant Snow deck wants to play it as well idk.
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Jul 27, 2019 17:10
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jassi007 posted:A single deck tech of which there are several, back when they used to broadcast events frequently. Imagine if they advertised 20 events and generated $50k in additional sales from promotions, that'd be an additional $1,000,000 in sales a year. That being said, what Sam doesn't get is the cost of OP vs. the cost of supporting streamers is probably way better value for WotC. I wish that wasn't exactly the case but it likely is. Magic is better as a paper product but it is probably more popular in the Arena digital format. That was also a deck tech for a completely insane draft deck and it's unclear if they could demonstrate successful crazy poo poo like it so often.
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Jul 27, 2019 17:11
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What if we settled on unbanning Stoneforge and banning Batterskull
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Jul 27, 2019 17:35
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Sampatrick posted:SFM should be unbanned but if you think it wouldn't be super impactful you're nuts. Ya I’m just not sure, ya know? Modern has changed so much. I feel like people said the same poo poo about bbe and jace and I’m not sure they were super impactful. I don’t think sfm would make death and taxes that much better but I also suck at deck building and predicting metas
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Jul 27, 2019 17:43
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uggy posted:Ya I’m just not sure, ya know? Modern has changed so much. I feel like people said the same poo poo about bbe and jace and I’m not sure they were super impactful. I mean, assuming Hogaak eats a ban, it's highly likely that the best deck ends up being Phoenix or maybe Humans and SFM is really good against both of those decks. SFM is also good against Narset and baby Teferi. Kolaghan's Command technically hits both halves of SFM but if Modern is in a place where Kommand is a reasonable card to play, then I think we're doing fine. There are also a variety of reasons why Jace hasn't been insanely impactful but it's definitely a staple of the format at this point.
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Jul 27, 2019 18:03
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Everyone's bad at predicting metas pretty much. Having the occasional test tournament with different ban lists is probably the only way to really have an idea of what would work.
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Jul 27, 2019 18:03
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The thing Ive never bought about the 'sfm mystic would homogenize fair white decks' argument is that while it is techically true it ignores the fact that all but one fair white deck is unplayable trash that could use the power boost sfm would provide to keep up with the rest of the format.
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Jul 27, 2019 18:13
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AnEdgelord posted:The thing Ive never bought about the 'sfm mystic would homogenize fair white decks' argument is that while it is techically true it ignores the fact that all but one fair white deck is unplayable trash that could use the power boost sfm would provide to keep up with the rest of the format. Not only that, but the only fair white deck that's actually good is u/w and u/w would probably just rather play Narsets and Teferis
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Jul 27, 2019 18:15
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Jabor posted:70% conversion rate despite having opponents maindecking narrow hate that's worthless in any other matchup and the sort of core problem in modern, to me, is that they’ll ban hogaak and then NOT unban bridge, and hogaakless bridgevine— despite being a completely fine, balanced deck that plays in a creative and interesting way— will never exist again
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Jul 27, 2019 18:24
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:and the sort of core problem in modern, to me, is that they’ll ban hogaak and then NOT unban bridge, and hogaakless bridgevine— despite being a completely fine, balanced deck that plays in a creative and interesting way— will never exist again Bridgevine is an abomination that should never have existed and even though bridge may have died for hogaak/looting's sins that doesnt mean it was a fair card that is ok in modern. Its exists in the same space as something like simian-spirit guide, someone was going to break it eventually.
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Jul 27, 2019 18:27
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Basically patrick sullivan was right and they should have banned bridge and looting together, the problem we see now is the result of WotC opting for a half measure.
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Jul 27, 2019 18:33
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I just don’t see why magic doesn’t go the route of esports where they have “seasons.” Just gently caress with the ban list every 6 months or year to give fresh decks new beginnings.
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Jul 27, 2019 19:02
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The answer, just like everything else, is the secondary market. Also that sort of rotating status quo is what Standard exists for. God, can you imagine the salt if WOTC said "hey every six months we're going to randomly ban a bunch of cards to shake up modern "?
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Jul 27, 2019 19:06
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uggy posted:I just don’t see why magic doesn’t go the route of esports where they have “seasons.” Just gently caress with the ban list every 6 months or year to give fresh decks new beginnings. probably because constant bans piss off everyone, doubly so when substantial investments can be made worthless in a single stroke.
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Jul 27, 2019 19:07
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Feels no different than buying into a deck and having it become obsolete in 6 months cause new cards wreck the format
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Jul 27, 2019 19:09
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Mr. Locke posted:IT'S NOT ABOUT loving POWER LEVEL. You're basing a lot of your argument off of things that don't exist. For instance, the five-card package you're describing of 4 SFM and 1 Batterskull isn't real. Nobody is running a playset of Stoneforge in a list where copies 2+ are 1/2s with no text, and the rest of the package isn't Modern legal. You could probably find something close enough to SoFi, but Jitte doesn't have a substitute and is arguably Mystic's most important partner-in-crime to begin with. Similarly, you're overstating Batterskull's raw power level. I'm certainly not arguing that it's a weak card, but nobody's running casual Batterskulls in Tron because if they have 5 mana to hardcast it they probably have 6+ mana to cast even meaner motherfuckers like Wurmcoil Engine for the same job (or they're bringing in Thragtusks so they don't have to wait for a combat step to get out of burn range). Likewise, it's definitely not something that goes into every deck with White mana (just like it's not in Legacy). I mean hell, Humans is a gigantic pile of three-mana creatures and they haven't bothered making room for Collected Company in ages. Cheating out a 4/4 Lifelinker isn't better than playing harder at what they're already doing, and losing to aggro decks isn't a problem that Humans are focused on solving. It would probably be a big boost to the various Hatebears / Taxes lists that used to show up in the format, but given that we're talking about those decks in the past tense I'm comfortable saying that's a good thing. uggy posted:Feels no different than buying into a deck and having it become obsolete in 6 months cause new cards wreck the format New cards trashing the format is an aberration that is expected to be corrected in the long run. There is not a format where people spend four digits on decks that are explicitly temporary. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 19:10
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Voyager I posted:You could probably find something close enough to SoFi, but Jitte doesn't have a substitute and is arguably Mystic's most important partner-in-crime to begin with. uh, isn't sword of fire and ice modern legal?
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Jul 27, 2019 19:12
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uggy posted:I just don’t see why magic doesn’t go the route of esports where they have “seasons.” Just gently caress with the ban list every 6 months or year to give fresh decks new beginnings. That’s standard Also yugioh does that and it blows
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Jul 27, 2019 19:13
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A big flaming stink posted:uh, isn't sword of fire and ice modern legal? EDIT: lol it is. Not exactly the bane of the format.
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Jul 27, 2019 19:15
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uggy posted:Feels no different than buying into a deck and having it become obsolete in 6 months cause new cards wreck the format There's a huge difference between "the introduction of new cards shifted the viability of certain decks or archetypes" and "we are unilaterally outlawing certain cards in order to shift the dynamics of a format in order to up the entertainment value". You could argue that WOTC, being in charge of design, has some idea of how a format will change in response to new cards or mechanics but that's a very deterministic view that overlooks a lot of other factors. At the end of day it won't happen because it would crater the secondary market and probably do more harm to the format than good. There's more than enough evidence to show that WOTC is very bad at tweaking these sorts of things anyway, why you would want more meddling is beyond me. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 19:17
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Hmm yes I love that my 500$ deck was completely invalidated; now I can play airplane waifus: http://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7916
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Jul 27, 2019 19:17
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:and the sort of core problem in modern, to me, is that they’ll ban hogaak and then NOT unban bridge, and hogaakless bridgevine— despite being a completely fine, balanced deck that plays in a creative and interesting way— will never exist again what on earth are you even talking about
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Jul 27, 2019 19:20
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little munchkin posted:what on earth are you even talking about why is glimpse of nature banned why is rite of flame banned if these cards were unbanned, would the decks they create have any impact on the format whatsoever? elves doesn’t have wirewood symbiote, quirion ranger, natural order or gaea’s cradle. storm doesn’t have ponder, preordain, or even gitaxian probe! the modern banlist is way too loving long
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Jul 27, 2019 19:27
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Mat Cauthon posted:The answer, just like everything else, is the secondary market. Also that sort of rotating status quo is what Standard exists for. It's possible for people to want a "rotating status quo" but with a less restricted card pool than Standard. Whether Wizards should actually do it is another matter, since you can only make so many formats without harmfully balkanizing things, but "that's what standard is for!" is not actually an answer.
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Jul 27, 2019 19:36
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:why is glimpse of nature banned Yes, obviously glimpse of nature elves and rite of flame storm would be completely insane wtf
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Jul 27, 2019 19:48
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Voyager I posted:New cards trashing the format is an aberration that is expected to be corrected in the long run. There is not a format where people spend four digits on decks that are explicitly temporary. *points to literally every pauper, modern and legacy deck he has ever owned*
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Jul 27, 2019 19:54
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hogaak only got one copy into t8, guess it was overblown https://twitter.com/karsten_frank/status/1155189515323133953 hmm
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Jul 27, 2019 20:02
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Sampatrick posted:Yes, obviously glimpse of nature elves and rite of flame storm would be completely insane wtf evaluate that statement. what is elves drawing to? how does it chain off with 1) no ability to bounce visionaries, 2) no lands that tap for more than 1 mana and 3) no natural order? like, imagine an explosive elves turn, then just imagine if the deck was cocoing into half of the Vizier combo instead. It would be a deck, it wouldn’t be an absurd deck. Same with storm. Is the reason UR storm not a deck right now that there’s not quite enough fast mana? Or is it just that Phoenix is a better way to play UR? How are you building to 20 storm without ponder or preordain? force of negation can interrupt you and you can’t force back to protect yourself.
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Jul 27, 2019 20:09
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