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The North Tower posted:I think Mustang Sally was season 3 episode 4?3? Yeah, I'm not sure if they're the same person tbh, Vito at the time wasn't a guy who seemed like he was in the family. But the two of them were in the scene with Beansie's wife at the front door (MS's victim, not MS himself).
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Jul 23, 2019 21:39
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Matt Zerella posted:Yeah, I'm not sure if they're the same person tbh, Vito at the time wasn't a guy who seemed like he was in the family. But the two of them were in the scene with Beansie's wife at the front door (MS's victim, not MS himself). Vito did seem like he was at least attached to Richie's crew, as he was one of the guys at Richie's poker game who was clearly there to help get money out of David Scatino.
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Jul 23, 2019 22:55
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OldTennisCourt posted:Rewatching clips today and I realized that Jackie Jr might be my favorite character arc in the show. There is no one more of a loving idiot than him and every single moment of him was gold. From the repeated "IT WAS A BACHELOR PARTY!" excuses, cheating on TONY SOPRANO'S DAUGHTER, the hilariously cringy ~mafia sit down~ with Matush to the card game stick up it was all amazing. Brandon. Matt Bevalicqua.
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Jul 23, 2019 23:35
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BiggerBoat posted:Brandon. Matt Bevalicqua. If you factor the handicap of Brandon being on meth, I think he comes out a little ahead of Matt and Jackie Jr. My vote's {MORON} Matt > Jackie Jr > Brandon {SLIGHTLY LESS OF A MORON}
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Jul 23, 2019 23:45
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There are a ton of characters dummer, but none of them have the connections to feed their stupidity
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Jul 23, 2019 23:46
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Dawgstar posted:Vito did seem like he was at least attached to Richie's crew, as he was one of the guys at Richie's poker game who was clearly there to help get money out of David Scatino. Good call. Forgot about that. Goddamn season 2 is the best.
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Jul 23, 2019 23:47
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https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/744244166/shooters-lawyer-he-wasn-t-trying-to-kill-a-mob-boss-he-was-under-qanon-delusion New ending theory; Tony was killed by a guy who thought Hillary Clinton was harvesting Adrenochrome from child sex slaves in the basement of Holsten's. Fuckin' Internet!
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Jul 24, 2019 00:23
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Your Gay Uncle posted:https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/744244166/shooters-lawyer-he-wasn-t-trying-to-kill-a-mob-boss-he-was-under-qanon-delusion Makes that scene [Bust-Out S2E10] with Tony and the lost kid at the mall all the more harrowing. Thank God Richie showed up.
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Jul 24, 2019 00:43
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Your Gay Uncle posted:https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/744244166/shooters-lawyer-he-wasn-t-trying-to-kill-a-mob-boss-he-was-under-qanon-delusion That's the ending to Layer Cake
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Jul 24, 2019 01:31
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BiggerBoat posted:Brandon. Matt Bevalicqua. UP IN THE CLUB
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Jul 24, 2019 01:54
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BiggerBoat posted:Brandon. Matt Bevalicqua. The North Tower posted:If you factor the handicap of Brandon being on meth Brendan
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Jul 24, 2019 01:55
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banned from Starbucks posted:Brendan Bront
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Jul 24, 2019 02:00
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banned from Starbucks posted:Brendan Hey, he was an loyal associate, a soldier.
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Jul 24, 2019 04:05
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Halloween Jack posted:Apropos of nothing, going back and watching old clips made me realize that Chris has killed a guy with a single headshot at least three times. After Furio he was probably the best "soldier" these guys had? Well Silvio was a pretty brutal killer too. There aren't too many prominent killers in the Sopranos though, the middle class lifestyle probably grinds it out, all the most legendary hitmen were old school like Bobby's dad. Contrast with the Wire or Narcos where you got more assassins then you can count and they are basically military level compared to these guys. BiggerBoat posted:Brandon. Matt Bevalicqua. Matt's friend was a bigger dumbass too. Also maybe David Scatino. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 15:19
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Silvio can do the job, but his role at the Bada Bing means he can't expose himself like that on a regular basis. Even old-school killers like Bobby Sr. aren't really trained killers. It's mostly a matter of having the nerve to shoot a guy you know in the back of the head, and doing it discreetly. That's why organized crime that develops out of actual paramilitary movements is so loving scary.
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Jul 24, 2019 15:32
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DarkCrawler posted:
Hmmm my old school friend who is a well known mobster has said multiple times I shouldn't be a part of this high stakes poker game. I know, I'll borrow 45 grand from him and play!
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Jul 24, 2019 17:54
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Oh my god I'm watching Hackers (its my favorite B-movie) and I just realized its Lorraine Bracco as the villain, I just never quite put it together
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Jul 24, 2019 18:28
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Zaphod42 posted:Oh my god I'm watching Hackers (its my favorite B-movie) and I just realized its Lorraine Bracco as the villain, I just never quite put it together Log off, that cookie poo poo makes me nervous.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:34
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Can someone post a gif of Tony's face when he sees AJ giggling on the computer? It's probably the most palpable "My son is a loving idiot" look in cinema history
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Jul 24, 2019 18:35
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Jackie Jr. should have been played by the guy who played Ziggy in the Wire.
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Jul 24, 2019 23:27
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OldTennisCourt posted:Hmmm my old school friend who is a well known mobster has said multiple times I shouldn't be a part of this high stakes poker game. Livia would have been right if she'd actually called him a degenerate gambler.
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Jul 25, 2019 02:18
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Halloween Jack posted:Apropos of nothing, going back and watching old clips made me realize that Chris has killed a guy with a single headshot at least three times. I just finished my first rewatch of this show in like ten years, and I'd wished I found this thread before, really cool to go back through some of the episode reviews while they're fresh in my head. Fantastic show from start to finish, and honestly even better than I remembered. It was the perfect time to rewatch, where I'd forgotten most of the twists and turns but remembered the general plot so I could pay attention to things that I knew would be important later. I will say that I'm surprised at the people here saying they felt the show had to remind you from time to time that these were terrible people -- I felt like almost every episode has a moment or two where one of the cast does something horrible, casually beats a woman or drops some racist shithead remark or something. I understood how people tended to sympathize with Walt on Breaking Bad, because on paper he has a really heroic-sounding storyline, and it's easy for people to ignore all the signs that he's the bad guy. But the cast of the Sopranos are pretty unequivocably awful people, even when they're doing something "cool" it's just murdering someone who deserves (but doesn't actually deserve) to be murdered. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 06:06
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Phenotype posted:I will say that I'm surprised at the people here saying they felt the show had to remind you from time to time that these were terrible people -- I felt like almost every episode has a moment or two where one of the cast does something horrible, casually beats a woman or drops some racist shithead remark or something. I understood how people tended to sympathize with Walt on Breaking Bad, because on paper he has a really heroic-sounding storyline, and it's easy for people to ignore all the signs that he's the bad guy. But the cast of the Sopranos are pretty unequivocably awful people, even when they're doing something "cool" it's just murdering someone who deserves (but doesn't actually deserve) to be murdered. Somebody definitely always looks bad, but some characters you can go a few episodes with them looking like the "good one" of the group, until its their turn to be bad too. Plus, we were talking about this awhile back but we all agreed they were pretty bad, we were just discussing individual characters after that. But I think you shouldn't discount the effect of being the protagonist of the story has. I mean Walt is a pretty good example because by the end of Breaking Bad he clearly is NOT the good guy, but some people were still really rooting for him like he was the hero. I wonder how far you could take a character and still have people root for them. poo poo, look at Jack Bauer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P52G4Kyq5M
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Jul 25, 2019 06:28
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Season 4, Episode 5 - Pie-O-MyJanice Soprano posted:You're gonna do what needs to be done. Aren't you? At Crazy Horse (where Thursday is still Ladies Nite), Adriana is eating chips at the bar watching No Soap Radio play live for her healthy-sized crowd. Already down, her mood worsens when she spots a very unwelcome sight: Tony Soprano and Silvio Dante have walked into her club. Putting on a big phony smile she approaches and hugs and kisses them both, exclaiming how good it is they have finally visited. Tony is proud to see her running her own business and she explains some of her strategies for getting the crowds in as she pours Tony a Glenlivet. But she's troubled when he asks where Christopher is, because she doesn't know AND she wasn't aware that he was "supposed" to be there. Tony and Silvio depart to take a seat at the end of the bar, ignoring her nervous suggestion they use the VIP Table. Once they're gone, she has a minor freak out, wondering why they are here, her paranoia telling her that surely they're here because they suspect her of working for the FBI. When Tony takes a call, she imagines him being informed of her status and sinking into a cold rage and planning to torture her to death, while in reality he's simply talking to Carmela about what she suspects is him ducking his accountant to avoid signing cousin Brian's documents. The band finishes playing and Adriana snaps back to reality and rushes up on stage to thank them and shill their merchandise, trailing off as she sees Christopher arrive and join Tony and Silvio, with Tony (who can't be present for what comes next) immediately departing after a few words while Silvio and Christopher head towards the back of the club. Adriana carefully approaches to see what they're up to, and what she sees this time isn't a fantasy but sick reality. Silvio and Christopher open the back door and Furio hauls in a terrified looking man named Giovanni, Christopher complaining that he's pissed his pants as they drag him back outside. She slips through the door after them, looking through the window of the empty building next door probably set aside for exactly this purpose. Silvio and Christopher are holding Giovanni's arms and forcing him to stay put in a chair as Furio beats him with a phonebook as they try to extract some kind of information from him. It's horrifying, and though Adriana has never been under any illusions about what Christopher does, it is one thing to know it and another thing to see him happily/smoothly taking part in the brutal beating of another man.   At Janice's, she's taking on more and more the characteristics of the woman who dominated the home for so long before her: Livia Soprano. Watching the neighborhood through binoculars much like Livia once did (though to Janice's credit, she's not getting suspicious about a woman for the crime of being black), she's not pleased to see the latest member of the Ziti Patrol to visit Bobby Baccalieri is not one of the normal older, married woman but a young(er) and very definitely single Jojo Palmice. Jojo once dreamed of being the new Carmela Soprano before Mikey Palmice "disappeared", now Janice has concerns she may be aiming to latch herself onto the newly widowed Bobby who himself is starting to rise up in status in the DiMeo Family (as Jojo approaches, Christopher - who killed Mikey, by the way - and Silvio are chatting outside with Bobby). Janice is suspicious and angry, how dare Jojo... this is Janice's job! Adriana is getting her hair done, her dog Cosette waiting bored in her handbag as she and the hairdresser gossip, when her phone rings. It's her mother, but another call comes through on the salon's line and she has to hang up on her mother to take it, because it's the FBI. They want to meet in East Hanover where they're unlikely to be seen by anybody she knows, and are happy to wait for her to finish at the Salon, making it clear that this meeting IS happening today whether she likes it or not. At Bobby's, he's surprised when Janice comes to the door but not as "surprised" as Janice is to see Jojo. Janice had just come around to give Bobby Jr a couple of (pirated, of course) X-Box games and the two greet each other with false warmth, neither happy that the other is muscling in on their prey. Jojo has some heavy ammunition though, not only did she make chicken Marsala but she's offering commiseration built on her own experiences of losing Mikey (she knows he's dead, and she probably also knows exactly who killed him) which Janice can't really compete with. But she can mother in different ways, lurching to volunteer out of nowhere that she's going to pick up the kids after school for him. She then launches into the housework, declaring that she's going to clean the pots before Bobby's maid (who Janice knows by name) can wreck the Teflon any more. When she hears Jojo play another hand by offering to babysit the kids anytime and reminds Bobby that SHE has kids too who would love to play with them, Janice is quick to give a "friendly" reminder that Michael Jr is on Ritalin now, supposedly lambasting the pharmaceutical companies which leads to drug addiction in later life, not-so-subtly making Bobby associate Jojo's kids and his kids mixing as a recipe for becoming junkies. An awkward silence follows after Jojo defends her son's medication and finally she realizes she has nothing else to offer while Janice simply stands and beams emptily down at her. She reminds Bobby how to prepare her chicken and leaves, defeated, while the triumphant Janice immediately stops making even a token effort to clean the dishes. Instead she looks for a place to put Jojo's chicken, looking through the various casseroles in the freezer and identifying them by the likely cooks... until she pulls out the ziti that Karen made, the last thing she ever made before she died. Bobby, who has been sitting dazed and largely disinterested/unaware during the quiet fight over him, suddenly bursts into tears as he declares again how deeply he loved his deceased wife. Janice is over to him in a shot, more than eager to be the shoulder he cries on. Adriana arrives at the cafe in East Hanover where Agents Ciccerone and Harris are waiting with a third, female Agent. Harris introduces her as Sanseverino, a no-nonsense women who hits Adriana with disconcerting questions that reveal she seems to know more about Christopher's comings and goings than Adriana herself. Why was he in Yonkers? Who is Chip Zoto? Has he ever mentioned him? Adriana doesn't know and she doesn't care, she just wants the FBI to leave her alone, trying desperately to convince herself that everything they told her was a lie. After all, Tony would never hurt or let Christopher be hurt, he loves him. When they comment that Tony "loved" Pussy Bonpensiero too she's confused, why bring that up, Pussy is in Witness Protection. Sanseverino is surprised by this, asking Harris if this is true, and he shakes his head with a sad little glance Adriana's way, not quite able to believe her naivete. It gets worse though when Sanseverino asks if she thinks her Uncle Richie is ALSO in Witness Protection and she acknowledges he is, taking a few seconds to grasp what they're telling her: Tony had both Pussy and her Uncle Richie murdered, with the implication that Christopher could easily be next. The final blow comes where Ciccerone, who Adriana told to eat poo poo when she first arrived at the cafe, informs them that she's on her way back to the office and they won't see each other again. It seems this meeting was to hand Adriana over to Sanseverino as her handler, and now the one (hated) bit of familiarity is gone. She sneers at Ciccerone's quiet reminder of one of the heartfelt conversations they had as "best friends", but then breaks down into tears once she is gone. She has been cast completely adrift, and now Sanseverino is the stranger offering her a sympathetic tissue as she prepares to build a relationship of trust with her. This is how they'll get her, this is how they'll break her, by alternating hot and cold and making themselves the only anchor in what will be an increasingly complicated (by them) life. The really sad part is that she's probably primed for this kind of thing due to Christopher's abusive treatment of her in the first place.   Later that evening at the Soprano household that the FBI are eager for Adriana to start visiting more often, Tony tastes the sauce Carmela is working on and declares it delicious. She brings up her cousin Brian again and he quickly tries to cut her off with an assurance he'll see his accountant Ginsberg soon, but it isn't about that. Rather, he's had a tip on a medical stock that he thinks they should invest in, suggesting they put 10k on it now before it starts moving. Tony is amused at how easily people think they can spend HIS money or that Carmela thinks this isn't much, pointing out that if she thinks it isn't that much money then clearly it isn't a meaningful investment. She reminds HIM that a 10k investment in Dell Computers back in 1989 would be worth 5 million in 2001, so he shifts to pleading that things are too tight, after all if she watches the news she'll know that the economy isn't doing well at the moment! So of course later that night he sneaks out in his bathrobe to the duckfeeder and checks on the giant stacks of cash he has locked away in the feedbags for the long-absent animals that represent his concept of family innocence/purity, grabbing out a couple stacks for himself and locking the rest away again before retreating from the cold back inside. The next day there's no sign of that faltering economy as he, Ralphie, Silvio, Hesh, Carlo and Ginsberg go to the stables to see Pie-O-My, the horse Ralphie recently bought from Hesh ahead of a day of gambling. Ralphie is joking about but with an underlying air of irritation as he complains about the high cost of paying for this "Waldorf Astoria for horses". Pie-O-My had been a winning racehorse till he bought her, now she's having medical issues and completely stalled up in her last race right at the end of the track. Tony is just happy to be around animals, which he has always loved, especially a goat that hangs out at the stables to keep the horses company/relieve their stress. Tony admits that he's often thought about purchasing his own horse (Accountant Ginsberg winces at the idea) but can't meet the commitment that would be required. They greet the trainer, Lois, Ralphie "joking" that Pie-O-My will be turned into glue if she doesn't start winning. Tony, eyes only for Pie-O-My who finds beautiful, pets her and off-handedly suggests that maybe they should hold her back in the race and let her go all out for the finish. Lois disagrees though, Pie-O-My loves to run up front and that is how they'll get the best from her. Hesh agrees, you don't gently caress with a horse's style, and Ralphie himself (this is important) tells Tony he's inclined to defer to the experts. Tony doesn't disagree, it was purely a suggestion and for once no ego is involved, he thinks she is a beautiful horse but he doesn't claim any expertise or dispute their reasoning. So Ralphie tells Lois to go full out without any slowing down at the end like last time, and disgusts everybody by insisting she tell the "midget" not to be shy with the whip.   At Junior's, he's pissed to see that Murf is dressed down to attend Junior's trial tonight. Murf, an old man who just wants to wear some comfortable pants, shrugs and answers the door when the bell rings: it's Janice. She's brought around a meal for him to make sure he eats well... it's Jojo's chicken Marsala! Yes, she literally took it from Bobby's so he wouldn't eat it and maybe fall in love with Jojo, and has given it to her Uncle instead pretending she made it, sagely giving Murf the same advice to prepare it that Jojo gave Bobby. She explains that the only reason she hasn't been able to get down to the court and show her support for Junior is that she's been so busy with Bobby helping him get through all this with the kids, acting like she and she alone has been his sole support network in spite of every other woman in their social circle flooding him with food and support. Junior is irritated, HE is the one who needs help, he's on trial for his life! Janice ignores that to keep talking about Bobby and how much Junior depends on him, doing everything she can to big him up in front of Junior: after all, he might be a rising star but she wants to make sure he KEEPS rising if she grabs hold of him. She claims that Johnny Boy always said Bobby would one day be Junior's linchpin, a nonsensical comment that just confuses Junior: Bobby was working as a head waiter when Johnny was still alive! P.S - Junior steals change out of Murf's jacket - which he wouldn't let Murf get before going out to start the car - to pay the parking meter because of course he does. Unfortunately for Janice, her attempts to make Junior wow over Bobby as well as prime him for the idea of the two of them together backfires when she tells him all about the day they spent together yesterday cleaning up and donating some of Karen's things to charity. Yesterday? All day? So what about the task that Bobby was meant to have taken care of for Junior yesterday? The ONE thing he was meant to do all day? He didn't do it? Janice is lost, her crude manipulation having served to only make Junior feel even more like he can't rely on anybody to do anything for him. He leaves to join Murf, leaving her to ponder the potential threat to her potential catch. At the track, Tony places his bet on Pie-O-My to win while FINALLY talking to Ginsberg about "this estate-planning poo poo". He admits he has no actual objection to having something set up to secure a long term financial future for himself and the family, critiquing those who simply live day-to-day, now he just wants to know if Brian is giving solid advice. Ginsberg thinks he is, a blue chip portfolio designed to keep pace with inflation makes sense so if it makes Carmela happy, go for it. Tony nods, and then finally admits the only reason he has been objecting to Carmela all this time is purely on "principle". As far as he is concerned, it is his job as the man to make the money and her job as the woman to take care of the house, and what worries (frankly, I think terrifies is a more accurate term) him is that Carmela is smart and if they start doing well in the stock market she's going to start pushing for MORE investment and it'll never end. Yes, his objection is that Carmela might be better at making money than him, and she'd be able to do it legitimately to boot. There is zero self-awareness of how stupid a "problem" this is, or that he might be in the wrong for wanting to maintain a traditional gender dynamic in the face of her potential superiority. He can see the issue, he just can't see why HE is the one with a problem because of it. Ginsberg has one last piece of advice though: avoid the life insurance trust. Tony is surprised by that, this one particular thing was one he didn't actually have any objection to after Brian told him all the tax advantages. Ginsberg explains that those advantages would be for Carmela, not himself. If he dies, Carmela reaps the benefits (that's... that's what Life Insurance is for!) but what if they were to get divorced? The trust would be irrevocable, so Carmela would remain the beneficiary and there's nothing he could do about it. Tony looks sick to his stomach as Ginsberg agrees a trust isn't a bad idea but there are other versions he could go for like an inter vivo or living trust. He's not really listening though, he's thinking about the fact that Carmela might get HIS (his now, not the family's) money even if they got divorced (which he certainly isn't planning on happening!) and how that's simply not fair! The race starts and everybody gathers to watch eagerly as Tony - the breadwinner, the man - bets money he claims not to have on a bunch of animals running around in a circle rather than let his wife - the woman! - take advantage of inside info to make cash on the stock market. Ralphie is losing his mind as Pie-O-My struggles to break out of the middle of the pack, blaming the jockey for not using the whip, lamenting to Hesh he's going to lose his 5k bet. But Pie-O-My begins to break away, catching up to the front-runners and then slipping around the outside. Tony grabs Silvio around the shoulders and bellows and screams for her to come on, and she does, passing the leader and clearing the post in first place by almost a length. The mobsters (and Ginsberg) erupt in joy, "their" horse won and those smart enough to bet on a first place finish will be making back 8 times their bet: for Ralphie, that's a cool 40k he just made in a few minutes, almost as much as the average annual salary for somebody living and working in New Jersey at that time ($44,285).  Poor Inez Munoz, the "owner" of Pie-O-My (but really Ralph's maid) awkwardly stands for a photo in the winner's circle while Ralphie walks with Tony thanking him profusely for his good advice and promising to give him a taste of his winnings. Tony laughs and smiles at Ralphie's painfully obvious (but still welcome, and in the moment probably genuine) attempts to ingratiate himself. They meet with Lois and the jockey, the latter admitting he got crowded with the other horses which is the only reason they came out late instead of running at the front the whole way. That just seals the deal for Ralph, he went with their advice over Tony's, by a pure fluke they did what Tony suggested and it worked out. Tony laughs that he just got lucky and makes a token effort to deny Ralph's repeated declaration he's given Tony a percentage, but his big hand comes out clasping eagerly enough when Ralph pulls out a chunk of his winnings and hands it over without even bothering to count. For Ralph the gratitude is genuine even if the gesture is calculated, but it's one he'll soon learn to regret. Back at home, Tony is in a great mood as he counts off Carmela's "allowance" (I've always found the idea of a wife getting an "allowance" from her husband deeply, deeply condescending) and even happily hands out more money to cover the cost of new football cleats for AJ. Carmela matches his glee though when he asks her to get him Brian's papers so he can sign them, and she eagerly pulls them out and hands them over, watching with pleasure as he signs the forms to give her some peace of mind that there is something concrete in place for her and the kids should the worst happen to him. But Tony's desire for patriarchal dominance, for unquestioned control over the money and the preservation of a gender role important only to him for reasons he can't even justify to himself, causes both their good moods to vanish in an instant. Because he signs all the forms but one, tries to casually tuck them all away together as if Carmela won't notice and then affects painfully false casualness when he explains he isn't going to sign the final form. Flummoxed but not angry (not yet) she asks why, and he puts on a show of taking a swig of water because it's all just soooooo casual and not a big deal at all and says it's not a good idea and he doesn't want to get locked into a trust. Carmela can't understand, what's wrong with the trust? Why don't they want to be locked in? Why isn't guaranteeing the future of her and the kids in a worst case scenario a good idea? If Tony Soprano was anywhere near as smart as he thinks he is, he never would have gotten into this situation in the first place. He could have signed the other forms and then told her Ginsberg suggested a different trust would work better so he'd like to talk it over with Brian first. He could have done a million other things other than what he did, but now he's done them there are still ways to smooth things over and avoid a disaster, so what does he do? He tells her with that same bullshit phony casualness that at least he "gave her" 2-out-of-3 of what she wanted. "You GAVE me!?!" she snarls as he suppresses a wince, even he knows he hosed up, and she storms past him and up the stairs, their mutual happiness now ruined for absolutely no good reason beyond the fact he is scared about his wife being better than him at making money. Adriana is equally miserable, lying in bed at home with Cosette curled up beside her, reading a book when she hears Christopher come through the door. Putting the book aside she slaps a towel over her forehead and lays back under the sheets, moaning to him when he enters the bedroom that she's too sick to go to dinner with Tony and Carmela tonight as planned. Christopher looks concerned when she says she thinks she has the flu, but it quickly becomes apparent his concern isn't for her, but for the fact this might negatively affect him. He tells her to get up and get dressed, a couple of drinks will "kill the germs" and she'll be fine. The fact she's faking notwithstanding, this is a pretty loving lovely way for a boyfriend to react to his girlfriend being sick. He insists she has to go, it's the inner sanctum and he's more than just a relative now, them being invited is a sign of Tony pulling him closer, it's something he doesn't do with Paulie and his goomars (hell, even Silvio and Gabriella aren't regulars, and Ralphie only ever made it due to Carmela's long friendship with Rosalie) but Adriana says she just needs to sleep. To her despair, Christopher takes this first sign of even a minor obstacle to jump straight to his heroin kit, stomping away like a sulking child to sit down and shoot up as he - the guy just made an Acting Capo and a clear favorite of the Boss - bitches about how nothing ever goes his way.   Janice is at Bobby's - of course - dishing up lasagna that the kids are upset to see was made with sausage instead of hamburger. Janice tries to establish to Bobby the connection/relationship she is already building up with the kids by trying to get them to talk up the blimp they saw on their way home, but they're disinterested in spite of their enthusiasm in the car for her to follow it. Bobby thanks her for picking them up and making them dinner, and she tells them to enjoy before grabbing her coat to go... and when Bobby doesn't insist she stay she just kinda stands there smiling and staring, taking a deep sniff and noting how good it smells. This penetrates Bobby's sadness enough for him to ask if she's eaten and then ask her to join them, Bobby Jr shrugging that he doesn't care while Sophia is clearly savvy enough to know that something isn't right here. They ask to eat in front of the TV and Bobby tells them no, that's rude, but Janice is quick to insist that they go since she is intruding on them. She dishes up more food as they go, which is a good way to get to Bobby Jr who agrees that it's actually pretty good with sausage. With them out of the room, she takes Sophia's spot and pulls up close to Bobby, who is worried the kids are getting spoiled because of their mother dying. But Janice moves past that, bringing up a more uncomfortable subject: she saw Uncle Junior. Bobby's face immediately falls as he remembers he had business to take care of and failed to do so. Janice is all ears, prying, directly asking what he was supposed to do. Bobby is savvy enough (or trained enough, at least) to say it's just some Union business involving an upcoming election. Janice however is also savvy enough to know that the words Union and Election in relation to the mob is not something that a person in Bobby's position can simply neglect to take care of. Bobby however is already falling back into his miasma, moaning that it should have been him who died instead of Karen, beating himself up for being so useless that he's even letting Junior down... and then shocks Janice by suddenly sparking to life and declaring,"gently caress him!" and calling Junior a selfish old gently caress who only ever thinks of himself. But while Janice would normally applaud somebody for calling out Junior or Tony and not paying them lip-service homage due to their rank, now is NOT one of those times, because she has her own self-interest to look out for. No, Junior isn't a selfish old gently caress, he's a patient man who loves Bobby... but if Bobby doesn't do his job, then Junior will have to find somebody who will. Then where will all of Bobby's years of hard work have gotten him? He'll be a nobody. Bobby doesn't give a gently caress about that though, he doesn't even care if he lives or dies. Janice immediately pivots, she took the selfish route and assumed Bobby would care about being a nobody. It didn't work, so suddenly she says that "we" (making sure to conflate the two of them as a single unit in Bobby's mind) lose that luxury when they have children. Bobby Jr and Sophia will need him to provide for them, and he can't do that if he doesn't take care of the duties Junior assigned him. She tells her own story of contemplating suicide when her husband left her but chose not to for Harpo's sake, making sure once again that Bobby associates her with "mother", a pseudo-Karen, a replacement for his wife and the kids' mother. She assures him again that Junior loves and needs him, and then with utter assurance she instructs him that tomorrow he is going to get up, get dressed, get in his car and he is gonna do what needs to be done.  And just like that, Janice has once again inserted herself into the high level machinations of the mob just like she once did with Richie Aprile. Tony brings Brian down to the stables to see Pie-O-My, explaining that he wants to see a different kind of trust, like one of the Living ones. Brian is more than happy to do so, noting he can see where he'd want more mutability, further hammering home the point that Tony could have handled this whole thing diplomatically and come out smelling like roses with Carmela, who more than anything else just wants to feel included/valued as a partner. They meet Ralphie who is concerned about the level of competition in the race today, Lois pointing out that he wanted top stakes which means tougher horses to race against. Ralphie continually underminds and critiques her as she offers feedback, but he only wants to hear from Tony, trusting his advice over anybody else's. Tony of course is happy to agree entirely with Lois that it's a short track so they should just let Pie-O-My go all out. They place their bets and Brian is just as excited and eager as Tony and Ralph as they watch Pie-O-My keep up with the front-runners and then blow past them to easily win the race. They're ecstatic, Tony hugging Brian while Ralphie has to gulp down his drink to calm himself down he got so overwhelmed with excitement. But as they celebrate, Brian rolls open his betting slip and despairs when he remembers he bet on her to show, not win. Tony and Ralphie burst out laughing, Tony especially since Brian is his financial adviser but maybe won 5 bucks while they're rolling in cash. Ralphie is once again genuinely happy, noting that winning is one thing but winning with your own horse is something else. He's far more calculated this time though as he looks Tony over and makes the conscious decision to once again share in his winnings. Tony's paw is IMMEDIATELY out this time, expectant, and Ralphie happily peels off notes and hands them over to Tony... who simply keeps staring down at his open hand and the money he expects to keep coming. A little taken aback, Ralphie holds his smile and dishes out more notes... and Tony keeps waiting for more. His smile a sick rictus now, Ralphie hesitantly peels off a few more 100s and hands them over again and NOW Tony smiles and takes the cash. Ralphie stares up at him, trying to keep his smile in place as Tony turns with a happy sigh to look back out the window. The money he handed over freely was appreciated, but also set a precedent: now Tony expects it to be an ongoing thing, and Ralphie is hotblooded enough to resent it but smart enough to know he has to tolerate it. It's his own fault, he can't be under any illusions about how moneygrubbing ANYBODY in their line of work is, let alone Tony.  Tony returns home once again in a great mood, improved when he sees the multitude of flowers he bought for Carmela have been set out in vases, which he stupidly takes as a sign that she accepted the peace offering. She comes up from the basement with some cokes to restock the fridge, ignoring Tony's attempts to talk to her as she pours herself a drink and walks away without a word. In a minor panic, Tony decides to throw her a bone and tells her he came into some cash after selling property on Frelinghuysen Avenue so.... fine, okay, let's buy that stock Brian mentioned! Darkly she points out that the stock already split and they missed their chance to make out like bandits (but legitimately) and walks up the stairs without a backward look. Left alone, Tony sits at the table with a plate of meat and a beer to eat alone, looking nothing like the powerful man of the house he seems to value more than anything else. Outside an Irish pub called Dorley's Lounge, Bobby pulls up looking resolved. It seems he took Janice's advice, showering, getting dressed and even shaving before heading outside. He enters and seats himself at the bar next to another man, asking him if he's Teddy Genaretti, the shop steward for Local 184? Teddy assumes he's another joint-fitter and Bobby introduces himself as Jim Blake, shaking his hand but admitting he's not in any Local Chapter of the Union himself due to a bad back, he just takes an interest. Like for instance this upcoming election and this guy Dick Hoffman who is running for President? Claiming he's going to fix problems with the pension fund being ripped off? Why that's just out of touch with reality, surely it isn't true that Local 184 is gonna vote for that guy? Teddy's alarms have been going off ever since "Jim" casually mentioned Teddy's caravan and commented on his family, now it is blaring, and squaring up his courage he manages to mutter that he knows what Bobby is trying to do. Bobby doesn't threaten or blow up or get angry though, he just looks him earnestly in the eye and tells him that he knows he's trying to do the right thing, that both of them have kids that depend on their fathers to be there for them. It's the fact that he doesn't raise his voice or use his (enormous) physical presence in any way that is the scariest part of all this. We're used to Bobby as the butt of jokes, as the fat guy who is kinda ridiculous even when he's rising up the ranks thanks to a level of competence not really seen in the others. But he's a giant, he's huge, and here he sits at the bar looking this poor bastard right in the eye as calmly, without the slightest hint of malice, he explains that if HE was Teddy and he wasted his votes on Dick Hoffman... he would shoot himself in the head. Reaching up with a finger gun, he presses it against his head and says,"Here", then moves the gun back an inch on his head,"Here" then another inch,"And here." His terrifying message clearly made, he tosses a note onto the bar to cover his drink and walks away, leaving Genaretti shaken and practically making GBS threads himself despite the fact Bobby never once explicitly threatened him or got violent or even raised his voice. It's yet another reminder of a simple fact often overlooked due to great writing and better performances: none of these guys are good people, they're in the loving Mafia, they're monsters.   Adriana is again sitting at home a nervous wreck, smoking and drinking wine, an equally nervous Cosette sitting with her. When Christopher comes home she is all over him, peppering him with kisses, eager to keep him at home and close to her, offering to make him scrambled eggs. He's surprised by her attentiveness but not unappreciative, but as she hurries to cook for him she can't help but notice him removing a gun from his belt and slipping it up over the dryer. Again, she's never been under any illusions about what he does, but the FBI's poison has been getting into her ear and every late night or unexplained absence now has her questioning whether he's in danger or dead. As he lights up, she timidly suggests maybe they should consider moving out to Santa Barbara, reminding him how young they are and how they have their whole lives ahead of them. Christopher dismisses it without a thought, grunting he was in California once and didn't like it, and gets pissed when she tells him she worries about him and fears something bad happening to him. He complains that he doesn't need negative poo poo from her, reminding her about the bird that watched him getting Made was bad enough, he's already under a what-do-you-call-it. Possibly! Heartfelt, she tells him she loves him, but instead of responding with an "I love you" back, he tells her if she loves him she'll stir his eggs so they don't burn. When Adriana returns to work at Crazy Horse it's more bad news, as Ralphie, Vito and Eugene show up out of nowhere looking for Tony and inform her they'll be using her office while they wait, Patsy Parisi joining them. In the back office, they have a minor argument over whether mold (which they can smell) can kill you, with Eugene and Ralphie - geniuses both - scoffing at the idea since cheese is mold and everybody eats that! Suddenly the chair Vito is sitting in snaps and he hits the group, causing the others to explode with laughter, Patsy barely able to breath from laughing so hard as he squats down to help Vito up. The next day after his courtroom session is over, Junior returns home complaining about wasting a beautiful day in court. Murf tells him he has to leave soon because his daughter is coming over for dinner, but Junior is only concerned with catching whatever news coverage there is of his trial. Bobby shows up just as the news item begins, Junior shushing him to watch and becoming incensed at the poor quality of the courtroom sketch of himself used in the story. Bobby points out that if the guy was a great artist he'd be hanging in a museum as Junior turns off the television in disgust before complaining that Bobby isn't providing him with support. He is however cheered up when Bobby calmly explains he has taken care of the Local 184 issue, asking for a dumb-bell so he get in a little exercise. He tells Bobby that it is good he is getting himself back together, but is surprised to hear that Janice has told him the same thing... more than that, she's been hanging around alot, cooking and cleaning, looking after the kids for him etc. If Teddy Genaretti had alarm bells ringing when Bobby spoke, they're clanging for Junior as he hears his niece has been doing things completely outside of her normal wheelhouse. For one thing, she's never been a good cook, and when he hears the lasagna had sausage instead of hamburger he immediately recognizes it as Carmela's. Bobby doesn't believe that, saying Junior always thinks the worst of everyone, and Junior - who fell for Livia's manipulations in season 1 but was wise to Janice's moves in season 2 - just smirks and tells him not to come running to him if things go bad. A clattering of a pot and a cry from Murf distracts them both, and an irritated Junior sends Bobby to make sure he's okay. Adriana follows Christopher into her office complaining about the fact the mobsters are now regularly using Crazy Horse as a hangout, not paying for drinks, taking up her office space. Christopher assures her it is a good thing and notes she can just get the money back by overcharging College Students, and waxes lyrical about how Tony did something for him he can't even tell her about, helping him fix something that was ruining his life. For the first but not the last time, Christopher declares he would follow Tony into hell, indicating a strong shift in his mindset from the first few seasons even if his claim is ultimately an empty one. Christopher explains the reason they all come here is because the cops and the FBI have no idea Crazy Horse exists yet, in time they will but for now it is the perfect place to come without having to fear being overheard or bugged. We'll never know how Adriana might have tried to correct him on this without giving herself away, because she chooses this moment to try and sit in her chair which immediately collapses.... they roughly shoved it back together and then left it that way without ever telling her they broke it! Christopher - fiance of the year - roars with laughter, then hits her with one more body blow: they're going to Tony and Carmela's for dinner this Sunday and she is going no matter what. Back in court, the prosecution is dryly laying out their case, presenting evidence, talking about witnesses etc... but Junior is paying no attention to any of it, using this time to glare daggers at the courtroom sketch-artist who finally notices him and gulps in alarm. Junior Soprano has his priorities straight.   Adriana (Cosette in hand) rides the escalator at the mall arguing with her mother about not appearing too desperate with a new boyfriend when she spots Agent Sanseverino waiting for her at the bottom. She's brought to a parking lot and sat in the back seat behind Agent Harris as they firmly "ask" for information: what is going on, why were Ralphie, Vito, Eugene and Patsy in her club (Christopher's claim looks even more laughable now)? Why did Ralph go to Philadelphia recently? Who were the guys he went with? She can't offer answers to any of this, but the next name they ask triggers a memory she'd rather forget: Giovanni Cogo. He was the guy she saw getting beaten next to Crazy Horse, and of course she can't admit that without incriminating Silvio, Furio and mostly importantly Christopher so she lies and says she has no idea. They clearly don't believe her but don't press her, letting her stew in the silence till she can't take it anymore and offers up something, ANYTHING, to break it. So she gives them the most innocuous thing she can think of: Patsy Parisi often goes to White Plains to pick up piles of suits. They take great interest in this though, making note of it, and Harris makes a point: giving up info on a mobster wasn't difficult at all. Janice is at Bobby's again, and is pleased to see he looks alert and active yet again... but can't help but outright ask him if he's made sure Junior knows he's back to normal too. He doesn't read anything into that, and when she suggests making dinner for him he surprises her by instead suggesting they go out to eat. Thrilled that she doesn't have to constantly pull him along the track she's trying to make, she asks if he wants to go to Vesuvio's, and her dream is immediately squashed when he says the kids don't like waiting that long for a meal so they'll just get Chinese instead. She's done too good a job, he cherishes her but there is nothing romantic in this gesture, no desire to get her alone, he considers her interest to have been for the whole family and not him alone. She begs off, claiming she can't eat MSG, and when he says they can just heat up some soup she instead removes Karen's Ziti and suggests that. His face falls, and though he doesn't break down this time he calmly explains that he's not ready for that yet. She nods and puts it away, but in her mind that Ziti has become the final barrier to break down to remove Karen's ghost and try to get him to think of her as more than the friend who helps with the kids. Adriana walks into her office at Crazy Horse and is shocked to see Tony and Ralph inside having a conversation. Tony calmly tells her to wait a minute so she steps outside, mind racing, knowing the FBI are gonna ask questions about this. She stands outside trying to overhear what they're saying, but they've already wrapped up their business and prepare to leave. As they're going though, Tony asks about Pie-O-My and offers a few suggestions to offset a tender hoof. Ralphie listens and agrees and they part amicably... or at least Tony does. Because the entire conversation, Tony has been referring to Pie-O-My as "ours" and making suggestions on what "we" can do about it. Ralphie owns the horse, Ralphie pays for the horse's stabling and vet bills, but now not only does Ralphie has to pay out a percentage of his winnings to Tony for when HIS horse wins, but Tony has decided the horse is his as well? To say he's not exactly thrilled is an understatement. This comes to a head later that night as a storm rages outside. Ralphie's new goomar is disturbingly Tracee-like, fussing over him, bringing him food, begging him to stay the night with her, all while being treated in the same dismissive, arrogant and uncaring fashion he displayed towards the woman he beat to death. When the phone rings he insists she answers, and on the other end his maid is in a panic. She passes the phone to Ralphie and Inez freaks out about how the horse is very sick and they want her to pay the Vet before he'll provide any treatment, because Ralphie still hasn't paid the outstanding vet fees on her prior treatment. It takes a while for Ralphie to get the gist of this because she's a babbling mess, and pissed off at the thought of having to go out in this storm he decides that if Tony thinks it is THEIR horse then Tony can deal with this mess, and passes on Tony's number to Inez. Tony is trying to watch a documentary on Churchill, disturbed by the sound of death metal coming from AJ's room and then Carmela's silent treatment as she moves into the bathroom and blasts the hairdryer as loud as possible. The phone rings and he answers to a greater cacophony of sound from the distressed Inez freaking out about Pie-O-My possibly dying, struggling through limited English and a deep fear of getting in trouble since the horse is registered under her name. He calms her down, promising her he'll take care of it, then pulls on his clothes which finally gets the attention of Carmela, where is he going in the middle of a storm? His answers don't exactly help: Ralph's horse is sick so HE is going down there to pay the vet? To the racetrack? So it's a racehorse? And why is Tony.... the only possible explanation her mind immediately jumps to is that her husband, who claimed things were tight and then refused to sign the form for their Trust has bought a racehorse!?! He insists he did no such thing (which is actually true) which causes her to sarcastically ask if it followed him home. None of that matters to him though, the horse is sick, that's all that matters. It's a different kind of horse on Adriana's mind (God I'm sorry, that was awful). She comes home wet and miserable from the rain and finds Christopher's heroin kit. With no energy or excitement or even pleasure, she sits down and shoots up, sitting feeling nothing, her little dog sitting on her lap as she seeks some kind respite from the stresses bearing down on her, even in oblivion.   At the track, Lois tells Tony that the vet gave the horse something to settle her down after learning he was coming with the money. She was apparently thrashing about and was in danger of twisting her intestines, which would have required surgery which, even if successful, would have ended her career as a racehorse. Tony spots the vet and in pure contempt hands over his money, clearly disgusted that anybody would hold off treatment on an animal until they were paid (I'm inclined to agree, though to be fair he had given plenty of "free" treatment already while waiting for Ralphie to pay his bills). Tony enters the stall, approaching Pie-O-My carefully, offering quiet assuring shushes, leaning down to gently pet her as she lies on her side. Sitting down on an overturned bucket beside her in the hay, he exhales and then pulls out a cigar to smoke and pass the time as he sits with her. The rain pours down in torrents outside and he assures her again as the sound of thunder alarms her. The goat races in from outside to be clear of the rain, providing Pie-O-My with yet more of the company that horses enjoy. Tony can't help but chuckle, and he sits there as the rain comes down, away from his family, his friends, his soldiers and his stresses as a familiar song from the first episode of the season plays. Accompanied only by animals who can't judge him or question him but only provide a pure companionship, Tony Soprano succeeds where Adriana has failed and finds peace.  Season 4: For All Debts Public and Private | No Show | Christopher | The Weight | Pie-O-My | Everybody Hurts | Watching Too Much Television | Mergers and Acquisitions | Whoever Did This | The Strong, Silent Type | Calling All Cars | Eloise | Whitecaps Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2019 13:54
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Jerry Adler is so good with the one-liners. I wish it happened more often.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:26
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Can someone make an AV that switches between the courtroom artists's rendition of Junior and him looking angrily at him?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:44
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I'm not sure why exactly but I love how Junior knows precisely how Carmela makes her lasagna and can call it out immediately. Probably because it's a very genuine and humanizing moment that is also hilarious. This may be my favorite episode of the entire series. I can't get enough of Janice and Bobby, I wish that whole thing had been expanded more over several episodes rather than being mostly contained to this one.
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Jul 25, 2019 16:13
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The dutch angles and warbled music indicating Adriana's paranoia are very lol
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Jul 25, 2019 23:52
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For some reason I really sympathize with Adriana and the scenes of her kinda struggling with flipping and worrying constantly about when the other shoe is gonna drop are pretty wild to me. Still going to family meetings, and spying on her "family", while reporting to the FBI, just wanting to have the whole thing go away, wake up one day and have the FBI know nothing about you, but it just gets worse and worse and the more you stall the deeper you get... I don't know why, but I think I have like this fear or like, stress, worry, I don't know what to call it, but like some kind of nightmare I imagine myself being in a position of having committed some crime and I'm hosed and trying to work my way out of an impossible situation. Maybe its something about social pressures or something, one of those things like having the dream where you've got a test you didn't study for in a class you forgot you had. Even after I graduated college I still got those stressful dreams once in awhile where I forgot to study for something. Its weird because I've never really done anything remotely criminal enough to actually have to worry like that, and I don't really see myself suddenly "breaking bad", but I still have this like, thing in the back of my mind that that could be me. The wrong set of circumstances could slowly lead you step by step into getting caught doing something and now you have to do worse things to try to keep from going to jail or whatever. I mean Adriana wasn't even a gangster, she was just seeing Chris and putting up with Matoush or whoever in the club to be nice or do a favor or whatever. Its not like she was trying to become the coke queen of New Jersey.
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Jul 26, 2019 00:09
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I just wanted to say that I recently finished The Sopranos and Johnny Sack is my favorite character. You knocked it out of the park with this recap J-Ru, as usual! Appreciate what you are doing! <3
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Jul 26, 2019 00:35
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https://twitter.com/deep_beige/status/1155137657992863750
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Jul 27, 2019 20:32
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Jul 27, 2019 23:35
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Zaphod42 posted:I mean Adriana wasn't even a gangster, she was just seeing Chris and putting up with Matoush or whoever in the club to be nice or do a favor or whatever. Its not like she was trying to become the coke queen of New Jersey. I often wonder just what the FBI would have done if she'd just run away? I mean if she had just broken all ties with Christopher and left Jersey and gone west would they have bothered to have arrested her? Technically speaking they had her dead-to-rights with their audio recording of her admitting to the cocaine belonging to "us" and bragging about having a great source, but I doubt they would have had any interest in pursuing her on something so small-time. It was purely a tactic to get her to feed them information, even with Pussy they'd told him he'd have to do some time when he was done, with Adriana they just threatened to charge her only if she refused to cooperate.
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Jul 28, 2019 04:38
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Jerusalem posted:I often wonder just what the FBI would have done if she'd just run away? I mean if she had just broken all ties with Christopher and left Jersey and gone west would they have bothered to have arrested her? Technically speaking they had her dead-to-rights with their audio recording of her admitting to the cocaine belonging to "us" and bragging about having a great source, but I doubt they would have had any interest in pursuing her on something so small-time. It was purely a tactic to get her to feed them information, even with Pussy they'd told him he'd have to do some time when he was done, with Adriana they just threatened to charge her only if she refused to cooperate. Prob not worth arresting her and risk having word get back to Jersey. Her best course of action was to just say fine arrest me ill bail out in 8 hours and my mob paid for lawyer will deal with this poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2019 06:19
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You guys pushing Webistics?
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Jul 28, 2019 10:02
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Jerusalem posted:I often wonder just what the FBI would have done if she'd just run away? Probably nothing. The coke charge would have been flimsy and it going to trial would have tipped the FBI's hand at least to some degree. There's of course the thing that Adriana wasn't a gangster, she was just a hangaround at best, who knew something but didn't know enough to handle the situation. She didn't even ask for a lawyer.
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Jul 28, 2019 12:56
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Despera posted:You guys pushing Webistics? Look, I'm sorry but the stock is a dog 
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Jul 28, 2019 13:03
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One thing that bugged me on a rewatch was when Chris and Paulie whacked the waiter in the casino parking lot and how that was never followed up on. It struck me as an incredibly risky move. I know it was an impulse murder and my first instinct was that they could trace the credit cards and figure out who was dining there before I remembered that they paid cash, but still. They would have had reservation logs, several eye witnesses, ballistics and any number of folks who could have placed the entire crew at the scene and you've got a waiter killed right in the parking lot immediately after everyone involved left. Pretty sure every casino in the world has security cameras too. It would have been really easy to narrow down the list of suspects I would think and I can't imagine them getting away with that poo poo. Also, and I think I mentioned it before, but Jerusalem did some equally impressive write ups on The Wire, for people who enjoy good television and want to read more of his/her stuff. I finally worked my through the entire thread and it's definitely worth perusing if you enjoy the stuff written here. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3522091&pagenumber=1
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Jul 28, 2019 21:40
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People get away with random murders all the time. And there was a throwaway line someone said about "no one knowing us out there."
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Jul 29, 2019 00:24
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The “Atlantic City” parking lot where they whacked the waiter is the same one that they use for the exterior of the Crazy Horse. I was confused by that too; Paulie took the money but later talks about splitting the tab?
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Jul 29, 2019 02:01
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