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Jul 29, 2019 20:15
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Y I K E S
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Jul 29, 2019 20:17
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"The numbers seemed very round"
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Jul 29, 2019 20:17
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I was talking with some judge friends over the weekend at SCG and it’s pretty obvious that qualified judges are the only reason competitive magic works at all. The kind of poo poo these guys have to fix and deal with is absolutely mind-boggling, like the player who decided he didn’t want to stack his opponent’s pact trigger because he thought that meant oppo would lose the game. Even after explaining, guy still decided not to stack the trigger and then freaked out when he had to continue to play the game. What I’m saying is pay the judges at least as well as a public school kindergarten teacher.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:18
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jassi007 posted:So if WOTC doesn't require judges from a certain organization etc. then nothing is actually stopping anyone (other than motivation and time) to create their own rival certification process that doesn't have fees etc. right? They just wouldn't get sweet judge foils from WOTC. well uh lol I would get some clarity here but if EDB is correct I think this is *moderately* illegal 
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Jul 29, 2019 20:18
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jassi007 posted:So if WOTC doesn't require judges from a certain organization etc. then nothing is actually stopping anyone (other than motivation and time) to create their own rival certification process that doesn't have fees etc. right? They just wouldn't get sweet judge foils from WOTC. Time, the fact that even if you had a bunch of certified judges they'd still want paid so you're right back to where you were before. Judges are the backbone of organized play and as numerous people have stated over the years, organized play is the reason Magic has succeeded where so many others have failed.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:21
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Skyl3lazer posted:well uh lol I would get some clarity here but if EDB is correct I think this is *moderately* illegal "Other than the obvious that it may be hard to compete with a block of well trained professionals with resources behind them"  Top level comedy! (How incredibly pompous for a children card game judge)
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Jul 29, 2019 20:24
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WotC somehow found the formula to get people to pay to do slave labor. Astonishing.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:25
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Skyl3lazer posted:
Skyl3lazer posted:
This is all just amazing. Better legal theater than the Mueller hearings. I don't think organized paper play is dead dead but ho boy they are not doing it any favors. Can't wait for the Desert Sky Games blog to come back from hiatus and speak on all this.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:26
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was Desert Sky the one that didn't want to use the London Mulligan because MUH FREEDOMS or was that something else
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Jul 29, 2019 20:27
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I don't think so but it could've been. Can't remember the name of the shop from the screencaps. Non-judge chat edit: The Ravnica Guild battle challenge on Arena was much easier than I expected, nice low effort way to get some alternate land arts. I recommend picking Orzhov - easy to grind out wins, plenty of removal, and most decks fold to a resolved Ethereal Absolution. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 29, 2019 |
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Jul 29, 2019 20:31
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 lmao
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Jul 29, 2019 20:32
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Lone Goat posted:was Desert Sky the one that didn't want to use the London Mulligan because MUH FREEDOMS or was that something else Nah, they've been blogging about running a successful lgs for years now. E: link
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Jul 29, 2019 20:32
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Count Bleck posted:WotC somehow found the formula to get people to pay to do slave labor. Astonishing. I agree that this is garbage but could we seriously not compare it to slave labor.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:35
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jassi007 posted:So if WOTC doesn't require judges from a certain organization etc. then nothing is actually stopping anyone (other than motivation and time) to create their own rival certification process that doesn't have fees etc. right? They just wouldn't get sweet judge foils from WOTC. This seems like what they're actually angling for
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Jul 29, 2019 20:40
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I just had a thought. Since the judge program is dissolving, the truth is nobody is l1, l2, l3, etc. That organization is gone. This new company is wanting to charge you to be a certain rank for a few based on their own processes. Seems misleading. Seems like they aren't actually telling people the truth.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:40
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Lawnie posted:The kind of poo poo these guys have to fix and deal with is absolutely mind-boggling, like the player who decided he didn’t want to stack his opponent’s pact trigger because he thought that meant oppo would lose the game. Even after explaining, guy still decided not to stack the trigger and then freaked out when he had to continue to play the game. I know this isn't the point of the discussion, but what the hell? Was he trying to say he didn't have to put the ability on the stack for some reason? I'm not sure that's worse than the thing holydiva had on twitter earlier, but it's close.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:44
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admanb posted:I agree that this is garbage but could we seriously not compare it to slave labor. Compromise: indentured servitude.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:45
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MLM but instead of the dream of ripping off 100s of rubes yourself you get some cardboard and the title lord of the nerds
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Jul 29, 2019 20:47
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This is highly reminiscent of how the Nursing (and medicine in general) landscape is changing. The costs associated with maintaining AACN/ACEN accreditation have inflated so much over the last 20 years and the organizations have become such bloated messes that schools of nursing are just letting their accreditation’s lapse. It just isn’t worth it. I figure we are going to see a speed run of that evolution at work here. Though, I would t be surprised to hear a fat embezzlement scandal drop from this within the next couple years. It is certainly set up for it.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:52
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Big thanks to the boring shitlords that cross posted stuff to reddit 
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Jul 29, 2019 20:59
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rkajdi posted:I know this isn't the point of the discussion, but what the hell? Was he trying to say he didn't have to put the ability on the stack for some reason? I'm not sure that's worse than the thing holydiva had on twitter earlier, but it's close. the player thought that choosing to not retroactively put the pact trigger on the stack meant the opponent could never pay for it, and therefore would lose. even after having it repeatedly explained to them that this was not true, the player chose not to. then when their opponent didn't have to pay the mana and also would not lose the game, they got mad at the judge it's not meant to be a story of judge incompetence, it's a story of the poo poo that judges have to deal with
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Jul 29, 2019 21:01
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Skyl3lazer posted:Big thanks to the boring shitlords that cross posted stuff to reddit Unfortunately that's how forums work. Might've even been an unregistered lurker.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:04
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So even cfb and scg don't have to use this system. I imagine they'd pay a heavy price from wotc if they didn't though. Would be pretty funny to see a gp going on with former l2/l3s while the mythic championship next door has struggled to find judge academy accredited judges.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:07
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little munchkin posted:the player thought that choosing to not retroactively put the pact trigger on the stack meant the opponent could never pay for it, and therefore would lose. even after having it repeatedly explained to them that this was not true, the player chose not to. then when their opponent didn't have to pay the mana and also would not lose the game, they got mad at the judge In the holy diva example, I wasn’t thinking no the judge incompetence angle so much as the take backsies one. You get the stink eye for doing that at an FMM, much less a major event. Plus, it’s a must not a may effect, so everyone is responsible for keeping the condition right. I will never be shocked how people try to warp anything into a cheap win.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:11
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Skyl3lazer posted:Big thanks to the boring shitlords that cross posted stuff to reddit You can't trick us, I saw you posting on reddit y'self.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:12
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Cynic Jester posted:You can't trick us, I saw you posting on reddit y'self. Yeah I dont post screenies there though ew
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Jul 29, 2019 21:17
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Countdown to the first events cancelled due to lack of judges. Considering any LGS needs an L1 to run any real event, is this now a tax on paper events for any venue? Even if judge fees can be subsidized by venues that means that... venues would be paying a liscensing fee for the privilege to run events for a product they carry?
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Jul 29, 2019 21:21
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Skyl3lazer posted:Big thanks to the boring shitlords that cross posted stuff to reddit you know exactly who this is
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Jul 29, 2019 21:22
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Balon posted:Countdown to the first events cancelled due to lack of judges. I don't think there are requirements on judges for events anymore, though they've been unwilling to give a direct answer on that one.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:25
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A lot of the ire towards this new announcement is probably also related to the fact that there are zero tangible benefits to the individual judges under this new system. So essentially, all judges are still receiving exactly the same things they've been receiving before this change, everything else is operating basically the same, only now you have to pay a big annual fee. So as a judge I would just eat an extra $100-$400 loss annually with nothing in return to what I was previously getting.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:27
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qbert posted:A lot of the ire towards this new announcement is probably also related to the fact that there are zero tangible benefits to the individual judges under this new system. So essentially, all judges are still receiving exactly the same things they've been receiving before this change, everything else is operating basically the same, only now you have to pay a big annual fee. So as a judge I would just eat an extra $100-$400 loss annually with nothing in return to what I was previously getting. Well in theory you're getting judge foils that you weren't before, what with the whole exemplar thing basically being a who-do-you-know arrangement. Granted that's an even further legitimization of the secondary market which is  so.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:29
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All of this is gross and I am baffled as to why they thought this was a good idea.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:33
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evilweasel posted:my guess is that this is driven less by the ongoing cost of judges were they to be paid and more about "hrmm what happens if we gotta pay up for the last 25 years" Ohhh. Okay that's a good point. But isn't WoTC/Hasbro still on the hook for the work performed over the last 25 years whether the program continues or not?
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Jul 29, 2019 21:34
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ShaneB posted:you know exactly who this is lol I dont but either way I guess cat is out of the bag now. To continue on the investigation in to How Tim Got In To All Of This  This really makes me think wotc had a hand in his participation, but I doubt we'll ever find out more about him to be honest.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:41
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This whole judge thing is just absolutely astounding. I have never actually played in a judged event but back in my ultimate frisbee days I did all the stuff to get certified both as a coach and "observer" (basically a ref) and even the ultimate frisbee governing organization, which is a mess on its best days gave me way more in benefits and for a lower price. Who the hell is going to pay $100+ for the privilege of working events? This whole thing is just baffling and I'm almost convinced its some kind of "Springtime for Hitler"-esque scheme because it's impossible they could have thought this was going to work.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:50
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axeil posted:This whole judge thing is just absolutely astounding. I have never actually played in a judged event but back in my ultimate frisbee days I did all the stuff to get certified both as a coach and "observer" (basically a ref) and even the ultimate frisbee governing organization, which is a mess on its best days gave me way more in benefits and for a lower price. Never underestimate the poor judgement of nerds
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Jul 29, 2019 21:53
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axeil posted:Who the hell is going to pay $100+ for the privilege of working events? This whole thing is just baffling and I'm almost convinced its some kind of "Springtime for Hitler"-esque scheme because it's impossible they could have thought this was going to work. I think that was an honest (as in, non grift) price point they thought it would take to survive the drop in judges they anticipate, or at least to minimize the damage until more people (hopefully, to them) sign on.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:53
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I'd agree, butInsurrectionist posted:MLM but instead of the dream of ripping off 100s of rubes yourself you get some cardboard and the title lord of the nerds makes a pretty compelling argument for it's success.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:54
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Skyl3lazer posted:Big thanks to the boring shitlords that cross posted stuff to reddit what got xposted?
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Jul 29, 2019 21:59
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