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Mors Rattus posted:Werewolf: The Wild West, which was the Dark Ages equivalent for oWolf. Wait, wasn't there actually also a Dark Ages Woof? So Wild West would be slightly more analogous to Victorian Vampire?
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Jul 31, 2019 22:34
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Mors Rattus posted:Werewolf: The Wild West, which was the Dark Ages equivalent for oWolf. Yeah, it's my all-time favorite oWoD book. That Old Tree posted:Wait, wasn't there actually also a Dark Ages Woof? So Wild West would be slightly more analogous to Victorian Vampire? Actually W:tWW follows the trend of V:DA and Mage's renaissance book by setting it at the height of the protagonist faction's power. I'm not sure if Wraith and Changeling were similar in theme. Jonas Albrecht fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 22:36
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Ferrinus posted:Well, here's the problem: let's say in specialize during chargen, and you become a generalist during chargen. Now we have different strengths and weaknesses but are basically comparable characters. Oh poo poo lmao I changed up my post to completely not-answer your question, my bad. For the most part it's A. B is fine but that's a storyteller fiat thing. But A is the "correct" way. A tie would mean 1 damage to each combatant. Sour Diesel fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 22:38
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That Old Tree posted:Wait, wasn't there actually also a Dark Ages Woof? So Wild West would be slightly more analogous to Victorian Vampire? There was a werewolf the dark ages, though, yes. There were actually two I think? One was branded as an expansion to V:TDA and one was a standalone.
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Jul 31, 2019 22:45
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Kurieg posted:There was a werewolf the dark ages, though, yes. There was just one book if I can remember correctly. The one with the Shadow Lords on the cover.
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Jul 31, 2019 22:48
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No there were two books, one was Werewolf: The dark ages(The one focused on crossover with Vampire and had shadow lords on the cover). The other was Dark Ages: Werewolf(Had a wolf tooth necklace on the cover)
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Jul 31, 2019 22:51
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Kurieg posted:No there were two books, one was Werewolf: The dark ages(The one focused on crossover with Vampire and had shadow lords on the cover). The other was Dark Ages: Werewolf(Had a wolf tooth necklace on the cover) You're right. Neat, I don't think I have ever seen this book before.
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Jul 31, 2019 22:54
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Oberst posted:I dont think anyone in this thread actually plays the games I wish I didn't.
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Jul 31, 2019 22:57
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Oberst posted:I dont think anyone in this thread actually plays the games I've played Requiem (a while back, fun times but not a great ST), Forsaken (briefly very fun before going on eternal hiatus) and Awakening (current game is going strong three years of regular play in). Oh and I ran Genius the Transgression for six months in college before realizing how terrible it is; that was probably the first ongoing game I ever ran tabletop for and it taught me a lot about how not to run things and also about recognizing bad mechanics. E: I can't overstate how bad Genius actually is, now that I'm actually remembering how that went. It's not good!
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Jul 31, 2019 23:08
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One thing I was trying to remember from the oWoD days was whether the formalized elements of coteries were as strong as they are now in V5. I remember at least in later editions there were some pooled backgrounds and other supporting info on coteries, but some of the traditions around them and having them be so prominent feels new to me. Which I actually like, by the by, as it seems very consciously designed to provide a clearer starting hook for players to run around with, and a sense (along with clan) that vampires are generally smart enough to want to build power blocs. Which they theoretically were in the oWoD, but then at peak wolf you had lectures about how it was stupid that clans in larps would often have the bulk of their members work together as if the idea of promoting a faction via family ties would be a bizarro concept for a vampire to utilize.
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Jul 31, 2019 23:26
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Actually W:tWW follows the trend of V:DA and Mage's renaissance book by setting it at the height of the protagonist faction's power. I'm not sure if Wraith and Changeling were similar in theme. The height of their power? Wild West and Sorcerer's Crusade are both set in times of decline right before poo poo starts to get really bad for the assumed protagonists. I'm also not super familiar with Great War but I don't recall it being much of a good time for anyone but the specters. I don't know much about about Changeling's dark ages game. I guess the DA game for Mage could be said to be favorable?
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Jul 31, 2019 23:32
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Sour Diesel posted:Oh poo poo lmao I changed up my post to completely not-answer your question, my bad. Right, yeah. But if someone's fighting multiple enemies, like Katarina vs. 3 security guards as enumerated on page 125, it says that the outnumbered party's Dex + Melee (in this case, I guess she's got a knife or something) pool drops by -1 per guard. However, it also says she has to split her dicepool if she wants to attack more than one. Does that mean that, like, she rolls 7 dice vs. guard A (and damages him if she wins), 6 dice vs. guard B (but gets to do no damage, even if she wins) and 5 dice vs. guard C (but, again, with no threat of damage against him)? Another question - it says that you resolve close combat, then ranged combat, then close combatants entering close combat. So if you've got a gun and are across the room from me, and I want to tackle you, you get to shoot me, then afterwards I get to punch you. Does that mean that I first oppose your gunshot with athletics, and then you oppose my punch with athletics, for four total rolls? Do we just roll firearms vs. brawl even though you have the range advantage?
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Jul 31, 2019 23:46
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"It's not a big deal in play" is sort of a sneaky way of dismissing design concerns. "My play group isn't bothered by it" is of course, cool and good, but it's a completely different question than, "is this good design". Like my D&D 5e home game is fun and that system is a garbage fire.
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Jul 31, 2019 23:47
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Joe Slowboat posted:I've played Requiem (a while back, fun times but not a great ST), Forsaken (briefly very fun before going on eternal hiatus) and Awakening (current game is going strong three years of regular play in). ZearothK posted:I wish I didn't. Consider this an open invitation to my upcoming V5 chronicle
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Jul 31, 2019 23:47
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Mendrian posted:"It's not a big deal in play" is sort of a sneaky way of dismissing design concerns. "My play group isn't bothered by it" is of course, cool and good, but it's a completely different question than, "is this good design". Nothing sneaky about it. It's full on dismissing any design concerns because actually playing the game with friends has been fun instead of having night terrors about the numbers not giving you the correct ASMR tingles or whatever the other guy was writing a thesis about. No game has some perfect balance and the mechanics that worry people actually make the game pretty interesting. Sour Diesel fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 23:53
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Desiden posted:One thing I was trying to remember from the oWoD days was whether the formalized elements of coteries were as strong as they are now in V5. I remember at least in later editions there were some pooled backgrounds and other supporting info on coteries, but some of the traditions around them and having them be so prominent feels new to me. Solidification of coterie mechanics is another great thing in v5 I forgot to mention ty
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Aug 1, 2019 00:04
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Sour Diesel posted:Nothing sneaky about it. It's full on dismissing any design concerns because actually playing the game with friends has been fun instead of having night terrors about the numbers not giving you the correct ASMR tingles or whatever the other guy was writing a thesis about. No game has some perfect balance and the mechanics that worry people actually make the game pretty interesting. The game actually becomes less interesting if choosing a predator style that increases a discipline you already have a high rating in is always the correct move.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:11
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Oberst posted:Consider this an open invitation to my upcoming V5 chronicle can i play as elder gangrel blobfish Sour Diesel posted:Nothing sneaky about it. It's full on dismissing any design concerns because actually playing the game with friends has been fun instead of having night terrors about the numbers not giving you the correct ASMR tingles or whatever the other guy was writing a thesis about. Honestly, I've had great campaigns with absolutely rubbish systems (oWOD, Scion 1E, Eclipse Phase, FFG's 40K, etc). As much as we like to argue the merits of a system over another, you can have fun with anything if the group is a fun one and has a healthy dynamic. Rules do matter and can make a game go smoothly, there is no question that a system contributes in large part to how fun doing something in-game is, but yeah, bad systems don't necessarily cause bad campaigns. Since this is the time to drop takes on V5, I don't care much for the metaplot, I find the setting changes sort of rubbish, but that's the easiest thing to ignore, with the caveat that I only read the core. I like the system way better than V20. Hunger is cool, the new humanity system is cool, the mixed generation and blood potency thingie is 1:1 a thing I had made to run Masquerade in Requiem, I like the new disciplines (but I prefer Requiem's more powerful disciplines), Hunger is more fun than blood points. I also don't see enough praise of the Lore Sheets, which I feel are the ideal way to introduce the metaplot into the game, as elements that players can choose to attach to their characters.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:13
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ZearothK posted:can i play as elder gangrel blobfish You cant play elders in v5 E: Hunger is way better than blood points by a million miles The reason no one has mentioned loresheets (another A+ edition) is that this thread starts screaming when someone mentions the  DREADED LORE METAPLOT and then begins clutching their crappy requiem book from 05 Loresheets kick rear end and let's players pick and choose the meta plot points they want Oberst fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Aug 1, 2019 00:14
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ZearothK posted:I also don't see enough praise of the Lore Sheets, which I feel are the ideal way to introduce the metaplot into the game, as elements that players can choose to attach to their characters. Extremely agreed. Loresheets are super awesome and might honestly be my favorite thing about v5. We're getting ready to start a Camarilla campaign (with me as a player this time instead of the ST.) I was a bit stuck on a character design until I thumbed through the Chicago loresheets and after I found one I liked I instantly got a shitload of ideas to build my dude. They give tons of plot-hooks to work with from a ST perspective and more things to give a poo poo about outside of your character's convictions/ambition/desire.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:18
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That Old Tree posted:The height of their power? Yeah, though I guess "beginning of their decline" is a better way to put it.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:22
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Ferrinus posted:The game actually becomes less interesting if choosing a predator style that increases a discipline you already have a high rating in is always the correct move. Lmfao
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Aug 1, 2019 00:52
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That Old Tree posted:The height of their power? Wild West and Sorcerer's Crusade are both set in times of decline right before poo poo starts to get really bad for the assumed protagonists. I'm also not super familiar with Great War but I don't recall it being much of a good time for anyone but the specters. I don't know much about about Changeling's dark ages game.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:52
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Metapod posted:Lmfao Go on. Also, seriously, does anyone know how, in V5, you're supposed to run these two combat scenarios? quote:Right, yeah. But if someone's fighting multiple enemies, like Katarina vs. 3 security guards as enumerated on page 125, it says that the outnumbered party's Dex + Melee (in this case, I guess she's got a knife or something) pool drops by -1 per guard. However, it also says she has to split her dicepool if she wants to attack more than one.
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Aug 1, 2019 01:21
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Ferrinus posted:Go on. sometimes 2+1 is greater than 3
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Aug 1, 2019 01:41
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No, she divides 7 dice against 3 subjects and rolls concurrently. That's how splitting pools works in every edition.
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Aug 1, 2019 01:41
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Metapod posted:sometimes 2+1 is greater than 3 but every situation/story is the same and optimal dots are the only way to valhalla
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Aug 1, 2019 01:42
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Metapod posted:sometimes 2+1 is greater than 3 Sour Diesel posted:but every situation/story is the same and optimal dots are the only way to valhalla
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Aug 1, 2019 01:59
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Sour Diesel posted:but every situation/story is the same and optimal dots are the only way to valhalla The thing with it always being "best" to take the free dot in a thing you already have high is more about XP costs. If XP costs aren't flat, the player who takes their free dot in a thing they don't already have high is punished later if they then want to raise the thing. Like...let's say you've got Potence 2, Animalism 1, Celerity 0, and you take your free dot in Celerity. If you then wanted to get Potence 3, since XP costs aren't flat, you end up paying way more than the guy who took the free dot of Potence and then wants to raise Celerity to 1. This is actually a problem because someone shouldn't be punished for choosing to chase their fun during chargen rather than calculating the best XP costs for later. It's not that optimisation is the way to Valhalla, it's that ideally a player should be rewarded for doing the thing they think is cool, or at least not penalized for it.
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Aug 1, 2019 02:03
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Level 1 powers are free to activate. More people who haven't played the game
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Aug 1, 2019 02:06
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Also it's cool to get out of clan disciplines you can level up normally In conclusion, predators types are good
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Aug 1, 2019 02:07
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Oberst posted:Level 1 powers are free to activate. More people who haven't played the game
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Aug 1, 2019 02:08
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Xp isnt all that matters~
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Aug 1, 2019 02:09
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Are they free to buy with xp you illiterate Actually Illiterate is a flaw, you can't buy it with XP
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Aug 1, 2019 02:09
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Oberst posted:Xp isnt all that matters~
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Aug 1, 2019 02:10
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:It's literally what we're talking about, so it's relevant right now~ Predator types are good. My osiris feeding type gives me a dot in enemy
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Aug 1, 2019 02:11
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Metapod posted:sometimes 2+1 is greater than 3 I'm not saying 3 is always better than 2+1. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse; in the first session of the game, someone who buffs their greatest strength isn't necessarily better off than someone who spreads out. I'm saying that someone who starts with 3 can really easily get to 3+1, but someone who starts with 2+1 is has to plug away for two or three times as long to get to 3+1. And 3+1 actually is always greater than 2+1.
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Aug 1, 2019 02:12
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Oberst posted:Level 1 powers are free to activate. More people who haven't played the game Whether level 1 powers are good or not isn't the point. Them being good is just dandy! The problem is that you should not actually be mechanically punished for taking them first. The guy who has the level 3 power to start and buys the level 1 power with XP spends less than the guy who has the level 1 power and a level 2 power and buys the 2 up to 3 with XP. Why? e: Like, they both end in the same place - a level 3 power and a level 1 power. Why is one more expensive than the other?
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Aug 1, 2019 02:18
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Ferrinus posted:I'm not saying 3 is always better than 2+1. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse; in the first session of the game, someone who buffs their greatest strength isn't necessarily better off than someone who spreads out. its harder to get out of clan disciplines that's why getting the discipline from the predator type is very good and cool instead of 3rd dot in a clan discipline assuming you want to make a nontraditional character
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Aug 1, 2019 02:20
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I do agree with the sentiment that a flat XP system is better than scaling costs. It is an interesting concept, but all it means is that it is more optimal to hyper-specialize characters during creation and then you round them out with XP, and dicepoll systems are already very punitive for players that do not specialize. This is particularly relevant for Disciplines, since that's one of the most expensive things you can spend points on. We're talking a potential difference of one player gaining 15 XP and another gaining 5 XP from their Predatory Aspect pick. Given how little XP is received by RAW a 10 XP difference is a big thing.
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Aug 1, 2019 02:21
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