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megane posted:If it were set up so that enemies would actively seek cover and stay there, and this made them very hard to deal with so that you needed to flank them, and conversely being out in the open made you very vulnerable so that you also needed to stick to cover, and the cover itself was placed in ways that made this back-and-forth interesting, and you had some sort of "dash" move to quickly cross gaps, and so on and so forth, then sure, I'd call that a "huge change." But that's not how it is. The AI doesn't seem to know what cover is at all, and thus only has it by accident. Being in cover and shooting enemies that aren't is obviously something you want as a player, but mostly you just take one step to the left and then fire three times instead of standing still and firing four times. You get dodge bonuses when moving, but not enough that walking across a room under fire is a reasonable activity.  In DoomRL cover is a big deal -- acquiring it, keeping it (especially in the face of enemies that aggressively close in on you and/or that have wall-destroying weapons), picking fights in ways that make it harder for the enemy to accidentally acquire it, and making sure you always know where it is when you're out of it. And it does have a sprint command to quickly cross gaps, which significantly cranks up the dodge bonus you get for moving and makes moving out of cover not the extremely bad idea it is otherwise.So if JH doesn't have that, that's a pretty big change.
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Aug 2, 2019 03:25
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Sorry to anyone also in the Slay The Spire thread who's seeing this post twice, but I went ahead and made made a Griftlands thread because it's already fun and has so much potential to grow. Come hang out if you want to talk about how much harder the Krill random encounter is than any boss fight.
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Aug 2, 2019 03:36
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poemdexter posted:I don't know how to play Nowhere Prophet. I 100% only attack the enemy hero in every battle and ignore the cards they play because it doesn't ever make sense to trade. The enemies are one time events. If they lose cards, who cares. But I need to make sure I have a roster so it makes sense that I never get my followers killed. The best way to do that is kill the enemy leader as fast as possible. I agree with most of this. I think part of the learning curve is knowing when to go face or when&how go for board, but it's definitely very punishing if you make a mistake, and not in a fun way. That moment you mention when you're in a fight and lost control of the board is really bad, I agree. There's just almost no way to turn it back around and I've come to understand losing the board simply is a lose condition. Runs feel a bit too long and samey for such a strong punishment. I still quite like the game but I wouldn't mind some gameplay changes, both for fights and the meta game outside. Edit: for instance, I never feel like I have a coherent deck. It's basically "a bunch of dudes doing stuff" and maybe a combo or two, but there's no strategy in building the deck or playing it because you need to keep recruiting people and removing them as they die. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 12:17
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I tell you what shits me in all games but roguelikes especially? Enemies that do things to gently caress over the player that no living being would ever ever ever do. Like a rocket launcher wielding enemy blowing you and themselves the gently caress up. Because I wouldn't, right? I would back up than fire. But because they're not real, they don't have to behave like a real living person even if they apparently are an intelligent being, like a solider or whatever. Its galling on so many levels but once you mix in the ol' permadeath that sort of poo poo needs to gently caress right off for eternity, take your grenade parade and shove it up your loving cloaca.
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Aug 2, 2019 12:28
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Motherfucker posted:I tell you what shits me in all games but roguelikes especially? Enemies that do things to gently caress over the player that no living being would ever ever ever do. Like a rocket launcher wielding enemy blowing you and themselves the gently caress up. Because I wouldn't, right? I would back up than fire. But because they're not real, they don't have to behave like a real living person even if they apparently are an intelligent being, like a solider or whatever. Its galling on so many levels but once you mix in the ol' permadeath that sort of poo poo needs to gently caress right off for eternity, take your grenade parade and shove it up your loving cloaca.  then
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Aug 2, 2019 12:33
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Captain Foo posted:
idgi
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Aug 2, 2019 12:35
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Jupiter hell is so sick but I wish you could play as a woman loving love that the trait from DoomRL that allows you to reload shotguns by moving is back
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Aug 2, 2019 13:07
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A better example than point-blanck rocketlords would be poison-themed monsters in jrpgs (or pokemon). They do use an ability that does near-zero damage, and its DoT over the fight is negligible, but they'll get their vengeance by you taking damage post-fight as you walk away. After the fight you most certainly won. Because they used poison instead of a real skill. Roguelikes are fortuntely not too bad about this, but other genres most certainly are.
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Aug 2, 2019 13:11
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Poisonous animals exist, though? And not always in a way that means that each individual is protected specifically because that individual is poisonous. Often it works out that young predators will test out eating various animals, then avoid the ones that make them sick. Or they learn from their parents / other animals, who learned it from etc. By a similar token, self-sacrificing zealots also exist. Maybe they aren't common but videogames make a lot of things common that aren't in reality.
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Aug 2, 2019 14:21
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Serephina posted:A better example than point-blanck rocketlords would be poison-themed monsters in jrpgs (or pokemon). They do use an ability that does near-zero damage, and its DoT over the fight is negligible, but they'll get their vengeance by you taking damage post-fight as you walk away. After the fight you most certainly won. Because they used poison instead of a real skill. Agree'd somewhat, especially if they're super weak and would never pose a threat except in this long term attrition sense, but you and presumably the creature they're pretending to represent would surely know that fighting = death. but the game does it anyway because gently caress you player Its weird because there's an element of verisimilitude too it for me? Like if its a zombie rat that is obviously intended to function that way its whatever but if its a creature that isn't like... a bee, part of a disposable hivemind, than why the gently caress would it throw its life away to annoy me!? Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 14:21
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What's the initial goon consensus about Jupiter Hell? Judging from what I've heard, it seems mechanically sound, similar to an unfinished DoomRL, but with bland/lacking aesthethics. I'm not sure is worth it to jump into the EA for 20 bux.
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Aug 2, 2019 14:56
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I love it so far, not sure if I’d recommend paying for early access but I donated to the Kickstarter so I’m playing it
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Aug 2, 2019 15:01
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Motherfucker posted:Agree'd somewhat, especially if they're super weak and would never pose a threat except in this long term attrition sense, but you and presumably the creature they're pretending to represent would surely know that fighting = death. but the game does it anyway because gently caress you player There are lots of animals in nature with defences that don't help any specific individual survive (because they're only relevant while being eaten), but do help the species in aggregate. Monarch butterflies, for example, taste awful and are full of deadly toxins; this is no comfort to any individual monarch when it gets eaten, but whatever ate it probably won't eat any other monarchs even if it survives. Enemies that use abilities that don't help them survive but do gently caress you over long-term is versimilitudinous as gently caress.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:45
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watho posted:Jupiter hell is so sick but I wish you could play as a woman They want to add a female option eventually, just gotta make some more cash. Hope they get Jennifer Hale to complete the gag with Mark Meer. Angry Lobster posted:What's the initial goon consensus about Jupiter Hell? I've been following JH since the demo and also they were cool enough to do regional pricing so I got EA for 10usd, so bear that in mind. Anyway, on Hard Mode, I think you can reach around level 22 by the end, judging from the furthest I got (level 17 on the fifth level of the third area, exploring all special levels and killing everything), with unconfirmed reports if they're adding another moon to the current roster of four major areas. Needs some more monsters for lategame; I complained earlier about too many rocket-shooting enemies and it was apparently because there's not enough to pull from so their numbers were getting inflated. There's multiple special branches that aren't guaranteed to show up, so in some games you can go down this branch with a heavy robot presence while in others you're killing demons in caves and poo poo. Here's the thing about the aesthetics: I actually like the environment a lot. Multiple techbase layouts so far (I haven't reached the last area), each with their own feel. It's fun watching physics launch poo poo everywhere when there's explosions going off and when cover gets wrecked. I think the models are actually alright to good; but the animations are definitely lacking and where I feel the game languishes the most. In terms of gameplay, I really like the differences from DoomRL. I think my favorite result from the changes to shooting calculation and cover is rapid-fire weapons being a lot more powerful in early game, when (IMO) they required a lot of investment in DRL to really get going. Even then, shotguns are still extremely important due to them never missing, as well as not suffering an accuracy penalty in melee. Pistols and the hunter rifle are also very good in their niches, the former with traits and the latter for distance shooting without accuracy bonuses. Only SMGs are meh in general, though they share pistol traits and can still be very potent once you stack enough bonuses. Overall I think they're on track towards expanding the game towards directions that DoomRL doesn't take. I think a notable change is the addition of a hostile human faction in the third area, which leads to some cool tactical situations where you can do ambushes or let them and the demons kill each other off. I'm very interested in seeing their future plans for the game since even right now the game is very engaging and suitably ball-busting.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:35
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Motherfucker posted:I tell you what shits me in all games but roguelikes especially? Enemies that do things to gently caress over the player that no living being would ever ever ever do. Like a rocket launcher wielding enemy blowing you and themselves the gently caress up. Because I wouldn't, right? I would back up than fire. But because they're not real, they don't have to behave like a real living person even if they apparently are an intelligent being, like a solider or whatever. Its galling on so many levels but once you mix in the ol' permadeath that sort of poo poo needs to gently caress right off for eternity, take your grenade parade and shove it up your loving cloaca. 
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Aug 2, 2019 18:18
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Zereth posted:Prepare to get really mad, then This needs the audio to go with it.
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Aug 2, 2019 18:19
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taqueso posted:This needs the audio to go with it. You're telling me the sound doesn't immediately invade your senses as soon as you mouse over it?
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Aug 2, 2019 18:32
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taqueso posted:This needs the audio to go with it.
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Aug 2, 2019 19:00
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toasterwarrior posted:In terms of gameplay, I really like the differences from DoomRL. I think my favorite result from the changes to shooting calculation and cover is rapid-fire weapons being a lot more powerful in early game, when (IMO) they required a lot of investment in DRL to really get going. Even then, shotguns are still extremely important due to them never missing, as well as not suffering an accuracy penalty in melee. Pistols and the hunter rifle are also very good in their niches, the former with traits and the latter for distance shooting without accuracy bonuses. Only SMGs are meh in general, though they share pistol traits and can still be very potent once you stack enough bonuses. I finally caved in and started a medium difficulty run. The gameplay is good enough, but I feel the animations and environment lack something, dunno, character? I don't know how to put it to words, we'll see how it shapes up. I did Callisto and the mines/anomaly branch, currently on Valhalla Spaceport. Sentry bots are just godammned bullet sponges. Shady Amish Terror posted:You're telling me the sound doesn't immediately invade your senses as soon as you mouse over it? Oh my god, this, and the sound of the skeleton thingies running.
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Aug 2, 2019 19:26
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Zereth posted:Prepare to get really mad, then Thats what those guys are for though, like I said. Its more the edge cases that are obviously either a mistake or coded intentionally but clearly for gamey reasons, like when an alien fires through their own friends to insta-gently caress one of your men. Like, yeah sure, cool beans game. Or when there is one guy who streaks past thirteen other targets to make sure the PC gets killed because they seem to know that if the PC dies they won't actually have to deal with their thirteen pals because the game will reload...
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Aug 2, 2019 19:32
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Zereth posted:Prepare to get really mad, then tbh that was my other response to the post but I couldn't be bothered to find the image ( the sound is seared into my brain though)
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Aug 3, 2019 01:56
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Angry Lobster posted:
You really need something with 7.62 rounds that does piercing instead of impact.
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Aug 3, 2019 05:02
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Angry Lobster posted:What's the initial goon consensus about Jupiter Hell? I bought it. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. The minute to minute gameplay is engaging and fun. The only downside to it is that literally every time it occurs to me to actively draw a comparison between some part of it and the corresponding part of doomRL, doomRL is better. The JH graphics are simultaneously busy and drab, i miss the dRL sprites. The sounds aren't as good as dRL (i know, sound and music ripped off from doom, but still). The confounding lack of diagonal movement for some reason. Even the weapon descriptions are weird and clunky compared to dRL's doom weapons if that's the type of thing to bother you at all. It's kind of a hard call for me because the core of a really good game is in there. It's just that... that core is dRL.
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Aug 3, 2019 05:43
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Is there a way to give that guy money that doesn't involve giving valve 30%? I agree with the folks who would like to support him for all the hard work he did on DoomRL, it's really awesome, but I don't see much need to buy this one when I've barely scratched the DoomRL surface. edit: doomrl itself is telling me his paypal is linked on his site, but it is not Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Aug 3, 2019 |
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Aug 3, 2019 05:49
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jupiter hell whips rear end imo. it feels super action packed despite being a turn based game. it's pretty frantic and very tough.
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Aug 3, 2019 05:50
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I wouldn’t really compare them right now since DoomRL is complete and Jupiter Hell is in early access both gently caress imo tho
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Aug 3, 2019 09:28
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Second win as a Marine this time, botched the 100% kill rate again due to how the final boss works. I'm now of the opinion that its summons probably shouldn't count for 100% because the boss itself is insanely fast and aggro, and immediately requires your attention if it gets close. I was actually complaining about how the Marine's combat traits felt super underpowered compared to the Technician's traits except for the Marine's pistol/SMG line (faster shooting), and then I ended up finding a pink-tier 9mm (basically uniques, with the 9mm ignoring armor and boasting superior stats) and a pink-tier 7.62 SMG (7.62 is the mid-lategame caliber of choice, and the SMG only has a 9mm variant outside of uniques). These two turned my Marine into an aggressive powerhouse that could both pistol-snipe and brawl at close range with the SMG, and it was funny to see how the "brute force" class ended up shining using the lighter weapons when the DRL Marine was infamous for Ammochain insanity.
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Aug 3, 2019 10:41
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Jupiter Hell is very fun, and provides a distinct experience than DoomRL. It is, tragically, not just DoomRL but legal which is unfortunate but the changes, 4 directional movement, the new guns, the less prevalent shotgun ammo help make for more interesting decision making. I love the vaults, and the risk/reward they provide. I like the routes and cover system. It's probably asking for more money than it's worth, I think, but considering how much joy I've gotten out of DoomRL it's not hard to combine the value in my head to justify it. Also, turn off the monitor effect in the options. It stinks, especially on high resolutions. I get it but eugh.
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Aug 3, 2019 12:22
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In the land of uncanny coincidences, both Pathos and Zorbus are freshly done up with nice new updates---Ambient Audio bearing updates~ https://old.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/cl4bxa/pathos_60_is_released_xpost_from_rpathos_nethack/ http://www.zorbus.net/ Also on Jupiter hell woes/monetary destination dilemmas: https://www.gog.com/game/jupiter_hell
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Aug 3, 2019 12:55
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Jupiter Hell is a nice game but man, when enemies with rockets start to get popular, it sucks hard.
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Aug 3, 2019 23:23
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Angry Lobster posted:Jupiter Hell is a nice game but man, when enemies with rockets start to get popular, it sucks hard. Yeah, I hope the next update with energy-based weapons and enemies drops soon. That said, a good solution I've found is to spam your own rockets back (and abuse free shooting), since rocket enemies tend to drop more rockets than you used to kill them. My last successful run had me sticking 3 bulk mods on a rocket launcher and reloading at around 11% of base speed. It was disgusting.
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Aug 4, 2019 06:39
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I just fed a full plate of my motherfucking weekend to Streets of Rogue, but I got to be the mayor, god dammit. Holy poo poo that game is fun. Fun soundtrack, too. Especially on the stage 3/boss levels.
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Aug 4, 2019 08:33
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Desumaytah posted:I just fed a full plate of my motherfucking weekend to Streets of Rogue, but I got to be the mayor, god dammit. Holy poo poo that game is fun. Fun soundtrack, too. Especially on the stage 3/boss levels. It's really fun and playing coop changes the dynamic as well, making it more chaotic.
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Aug 4, 2019 15:41
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drat, I keep forgetting that has multiplayer.
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Aug 4, 2019 16:13
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Jupiter Hell slaps and I hope it makes enough money that it can eventually get ported to Switch. It works perfectly with a gamepad and playing it handheld would be amazing. Off the top of my head I can only think of Tangledeep as a proper roguelike on Switch and that's a drat shame.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:39
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I've beaten JH thrice now on Hard (10 losses, some literally on the first floor  ) and while I love it, I'll have to shelf it until the August 15th patch because I'm getting real salty about missing the 100% kill bronze badge which I need to unlock UV difficulty due to the final boss summoning dudes in, the summons counting for the 100% kill, and the boss just being insanely fast and dangerous that you cannot spare the time to kill the summons at all if you don't want to die.I'm just being a stubborn idiot here since I don't want to do the bronze Angel challenges, for full disclosure. Still, three wins!
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Aug 4, 2019 19:01
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The last few pages of Jupiter hell chat have been a real rollercoaster
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Aug 4, 2019 19:21
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Finally started playing Tangledeep after it's been sitting in my library since some fantastic sale a while back, jeeze, what have I been missing out on? What a fun dungeon crawler! My first character (Archer) got to floor 14ish and got stomped like a scrub by a reflecting elite while I was trying to job swap for more passives. Just started my 2nd character a bit ago and decided to do all of the job swapping at the start, which worked out a whole ton better. I'm currently a level 8 archer with Qi Mastery, Steel Resolve, Escape Artist, Fire Bomb and Wild Horse before any Archer abilities. With my insured Fungal Toad (love em for their regen ability) from last run starting with a whopping 850 HP and the few things I remembered to stash in my safe before I croaked I've been steamrolling everything so far. Having a blast, can't wait to try other classes on future runs. Anyone have any neato tips or posts I could filter to?
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Aug 5, 2019 02:35
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thoughts on the 9mm SMG vs 9mm autorifle in JH? Same for the .44 revolver and .44 rifle.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:46
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I haven't gone for the 9mm SMG because the auto rifle hasn't let me down yet. The .44 rifle is really drat good early on, but I cant remember what the main tradeoff with the pistol is other than minus one capacity. I scored a sick rear end blue shotgun and a shotgun specific mod in the anomaly level; I was tearing poo poo up for a while. My best run is level 6, so I probably wont be running into the high level rocket spam until theres already been more enemies added 
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Aug 5, 2019 04:30
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