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It's remarkable that the world outside of the USA is a wasteland of women getting raped and the children and elderly being mugged and murdered every day because they don't have guns to protect themselves
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Aug 4, 2019 18:33
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colachute posted:or how about this: everyone gets a firearm for self defense, but we abolish police since they seem to be so incredibly useless (an unsolvable problem!) that we need to be armed to the loving teeth tl;dr: gently caress anarchism, fix the state
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Aug 4, 2019 18:37
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Police infrastructure in small towns is trash, and won't improve until state/federal tax money gets to them. One town I lived in had about 600 people. One cop. From 6pm to 2am. And he was just a bored old dude who retired from his dry cleaning business. Anything happened outside of that, call state or county. The town immediately south of it has no police. Two towns north, no cops. It takes getting a population of at least a thousand together to get enough tax revenue to pay a cop reasonably. Lots of towns are continuing to see a decrease in population. It's a goddamn mess in rural parts of the country.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:38
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Fallom posted:Law enforcement is already collecting information on right wing terrorists and refusing to do anything with it so addressing that does seem like a good step I outlined reasons why it was difficult. I never stated it was intolerable. Use your strawman arguments somewhere else. It *is* difficult. What I said would be bad is if we had enough agents and intel resources to follow everyone on a watchlist. Why? Because that would mean we're living in a literal dystopian police state spending probably what we're spending on defense now, on spying on Americans on watchlists. Even now those watchlists are secret and they're full of errors. Plus, I don't know about you, but I think the Executive has more than enough power as it is. I for one don't want to expand executive power just for the next GOP President to come in and infiltrate and spy on left wing groups even more than they already do now. I WISH we had a president that empowered the FBI to infiltrate and take down these white supremacist groups. But even if we did, those groups would need to do something illegal before we could arrest them.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:39
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Police infrastructure in small towns is trash, and won't improve until state/federal tax money gets to them. A police response time of 20-45 minutes is common in rural areas.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:41
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Eej posted:It's remarkable that the world outside of the USA is a wasteland of women getting raped and the children and elderly being mugged and murdered every day because they don't have guns to protect themselves If any other country had the rate of shooting the US does, combined with the concentration camps and mounting sectarian / political violence, the State Department would have travel advisories out. When’s the last time there was a mass shooting in a developed country? New Zealand and Norway before that? The guy at the Canadian parliament? The US being much more religious than those countries, you’d expect their Thoughts and Prayers to be that much more effective.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:42
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Cugel the Clever posted:Two of the last three mass shootings were ended by police shooting the terrorists within minutes. The chaotic bloodshed that would have occurred had they not been present would have been worse, particularly if a bunch of gun-owners in the crowd confusedly started popping off shots at anyone they believed to be the gunman. we're talking past eachother. there is absolutely 100% no way to solve the problem of police presence in rural towns, or police presence around neighborhoods with the elderly. therefore, because of those people, johnny the psychotic veteran has to be able to easily go buy a rifle to shoot up a wal mart. i finally get it now. we can't solve the lovely loving police in this country, so we can't disarm or have ANY type of firearm legislation come up. because we can't rely on the people paid to protect and serve to protect and serve. why do republicans not have more faith in the police to be the good guy with the gun? colachute fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 18:44
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I don't buy the rural security argument in general, nostly because there's a lot of people in cities who also, to put it mildly, cannot count on prompt and effective protection from police. but at the very least people who may run into bears, wolves, etc., should be able to have rifles.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:45
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FrozenVent posted:When’s the last time there was a mass shooting in a developed country? New Zealand and Norway before that? The guy at the Canadian parliament? quote:What's a "developed country" anyway? Is Mexico (about 4x the US homicide rate)? It's good enough to be part of the OECD, but mayhaps that's not enough to call it developed? Or let's say, the Philippines (about 2x the US homicide rate). It's got a bigger economy than either Finland, Hungary or Greece, but maybe it's just not that developed?
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Aug 4, 2019 18:48
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Eej posted:It's remarkable that the world outside of the USA is a wasteland of women getting raped and the children and elderly being mugged and murdered every day because they don't have guns to protect themselves Sure, compare apples to grapefruits if you want. But they're [edit: see above post - "they're" meaning many European countries or NZ or Aus, as those are the ones most often brought up in these debates) different cultures who are way less violent than we are because they have 1) largely homogeneous populations, 2) univeral healthcare, 3) way better access to mental healthcare, 4) maternity leave, 5) way less economic inequality, 6) more hope for a career or upward mobility, or hope for a decent life, 7) almost all of them offer free college or university, and 8) on average, all of them have better education systems than we do (K-12). Bored As Fuck fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 18:51
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Bored As gently caress posted:Sure, compare apples to grapefruits if you want. But they're different cultures who are way less violent than we are because they have 1) largely homogeneous populations, 2) univeral healthcare, 3) way better access to mental healthcare, 4) maternity leave, 5) way less economic inequality, 6) more hope for a career or upward mobility, or hope for a decent life, 7) almost all of them offer free college or university, and 8) on average, all of them have better education systems than we do (K-12). many of us are working on programs to address these points, unfortunately many in power are stuck on the first
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Aug 4, 2019 18:55
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Bored As gently caress posted:Sure, compare apples to grapefruits if you want. But they're different cultures who are way less violent than we are because they have 1) largely homogeneous populations, 2) univeral healthcare, 3) way better access to mental healthcare, 4) maternity leave, 5) way less economic inequality, 6) more hope for a career or upward mobility, or hope for a decent life, 7) almost all of them offer free college or university, and 8) on average, all of them have better education systems than we do (K-12). Tell me more about 1) 
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Aug 4, 2019 18:55
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That description of Macau makes it sound like my kind of place
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Aug 4, 2019 18:56
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We're actually much closer to Brazil than European countries (you know, fascist leader, entrenched racism throughout the entire government body with everyone from guard units to cops as it's footsoldiers, widespread economic inequality that also just happens to overly affect non-whites and minorities, etc) and by that metric, we've actually got less gun violence than they do, even with our wider proliferation of private gun ownership. But, sure, the problem isn't white nationalism and racism, it's guns. Sure.
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Aug 4, 2019 18:57
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FrozenVent posted:Tell me more about 1) You can be nice and assume they mean wealth disparity.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:00
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hobbesmaster posted:You can be nice and assume they mean wealth disparity. 
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Aug 4, 2019 19:03
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Bored As gently caress posted:One thing I don't get is how people like you (and others in this thead) that want to see the end of gun ownership, is how do you support something that is going to take away or extremely restrict the ability of people to defend themselves. The elderly, ill or infirm, people with disabilities, the weaker/shorter people, and most women are more easily able to defend themselves from attackers with firearms. Mace/pepper spray is only so effective - it's not even close to 100% effective. Knives take some skill to defend yourself with, and you get too close to an attacker to safely use it anyway. A firearm is an equalizer. Whereas before firearms, a bigger, stronger attacker would easily victimize you, a disabled or smaller or weaker person could easily defend themselves against a much larger attacker. Will they be able to in every circumstance? No. But they'll have a hell of a better chance with a firearm than without. If my ex girlfriend who had muscular dystrophy in her legs had a firearm on her or in her purse, it's quite possible she would've been able to shoot her attacker, and then she never would've been brutally attacked and raped, then she never would've had a TBI and PTSD, and never would've self medicated with drugs, never would've become a junkie thief, and never would've eventually overdosed and died. I'm a minority on a whole bunch of levels and a disarmed society is a safer society
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Aug 4, 2019 19:03
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Cat Army 
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My favorite thing about good guy with a gun is how easy people think it is to shoot under stress or after an adrenaline dump. Just like the range, no worrys
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Aug 4, 2019 19:06
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Put together an FBI task force made up of left leaning former cops who couldn't take the bullshit anymore and turn them loose on Chuds.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:07
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how many people get killed by grizzly bears every year and how many people get killed by firearms every year obviously we have a grizzly bear problem and need firearms.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:08
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I've come around on Gun Control. Arm everyone, in fact make it constitutionally mandated that everyone is handed a pistol at birth that cannot be confiscated period and make all weapons legal: M16's, Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. Tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. Sonic electronic ball-breakers, nukes, knives, sharp sticks, everything. If some Chud is gonna shoot up a Walmart I want that entire Walmart shooting everything and anything that moves funny. Just make everyone so goddamn terrified of each other.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:08
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Waroduce posted:My favorite thing about good guy with a gun is how easy people think it is to shoot under stress or after an adrenaline dump. Just like the range, no worrys Or not get shot by police showing up. The guy who tried to good guy with a gun almost got shot in el paso
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Aug 4, 2019 19:08
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FrozenVent posted:Tell me more about 1) Oh gently caress off, stop implying that poo poo. What I'm saying is that majority populations almost always tend to view the minority as an other, and that because of that, the minority is going to be ostracized, discriminated against, or even ethnically cleansed or be erased by genocide. More homogeneous populations tend to have less conflict. If a country is all Catholic, guess what? Less religious conflict. Introduce Protestants, and there's going to be conflict. Look at Northern Ireland for fucks sake. Kosovo. Sudan. Syria. Iraq. Turkey. All of those have more conflict due to religious, sectarian, or ethnic reasons. Bored As Fuck fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 19:16
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FrozenVent posted:If any other country had the rate of shooting the US does, combined with the concentration camps and mounting sectarian / political violence, the State Department would have travel advisories out. American christians worship money and violence because it sure as gently caress isn't jesus christ
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Aug 4, 2019 19:17
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Oh and it might look like cernobitch knew about this
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Aug 4, 2019 19:18
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Defenestrategy posted:I've come around on Gun Control. Nice pull. Aliens is one of the best
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Aug 4, 2019 19:19
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Bored As gently caress posted:I WISH we had a president that empowered the FBI to infiltrate and take down these white supremacist groups. But even if we did, those groups would need to do something illegal before we could arrest them. Everything you said before this I completely loving ignored. Those groups are doing illegal poo poo. It's happening right in front of you, in front of all of us, a blatant loving display of death. End the proliferation of small arms in this country and remove easy access to weapons of mass murder. It works in a lot of the rest of the world where they don't go through multiple mass shootings per week.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:24
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Bored As gently caress posted:Oh gently caress off, stop implying that poo poo. USA: 14.4% immigrant population, 27.6% non white population Canada: 21.9% immigrant population, 22.3% visible minority population Are you saying that the 5% more ethnic minorities is a significant factor in the 24,800% greater amount of mass shootings this year versus Canada?
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Aug 4, 2019 19:28
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:Everything you said before this I completely loving ignored. Like what? What can you charge the assholes posting on Stormfront with? What can you charge most of the assholes open carrying and marching for white supremacy and/or for Trump (obviously besides the ones that hit or beat up counter protestors)? Marching for stupid poo poo is legal. You want those loving psychos to be the only ones armed?
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Aug 4, 2019 19:30
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Eej posted:USA: 14.4% immigrant population, 27.6% non white population There’s an even bigger ethno cultural factor in Canada because of the whole French thing. Hasn’t led to significant amount of violence in a while though (schoolyard fights excluded).
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Aug 4, 2019 19:31
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Casimir Radon posted:Put together an FBI task force made up of left leaning former cops who couldn't take the bullshit anymore and turn them loose on Chuds. The Leftist Untouchables
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Aug 4, 2019 19:33
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Bored As gently caress posted:Like what? What can you charge the assholes posting on Stormfront with? What can you charge most of the assholes open carrying and marching for white supremacy and/or for Trump (obviously besides the ones that hit or beat up counter protestors)? Marching for stupid poo poo is legal. They're literally conspiring together and promoting acts of terrorism, and we've gone to war with countries for far less. Right now they ARE the only ones that are armed and murdering people, and I would rather like it if they weren't. I'm sorry I don't believe in maintaining the status quo of more guns, but gently caress off if you think that doing nothing to access to firearms and the amount we manufacture and sell within this country is somehow the answer.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:33
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Eej posted:USA: 14.4% immigrant population, 27.6% non white population Bored As gently caress posted:Sure, compare apples to grapefruits if you want. But they're [edit: see above post - "they're" meaning many European countries or NZ or Aus, as those are the ones most often brought up in these debates) different cultures who are way less violent than we are because they have 1) largely homogeneous populations, 2) univeral healthcare, 3) way better access to mental healthcare, 4) maternity leave, 5) way less economic inequality, 6) more hope for a career or upward mobility, or hope for a decent life, 7) almost all of them offer free college or university, and 8) on average, all of them have better education systems than we do (K-12). Please read numbers 2 through 8. Golly gee wiz, complicated problems are mutifaceted and have so many causes and contributing factors! Wowee! It's almost as if lots of guns vs not a lot of guns ISN'T the only difference between these countries!
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Aug 4, 2019 19:33
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Canada does have public healthcare and much stricter gun laws as well as an official policy of being welcoming to immigration though. This doesn't stop us from having our own incels driving people over on the sidewalk in a van though (but the incel movement may be considered a cultural export from the south anyway).
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Aug 4, 2019 19:35
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Eej posted:Canada does have public healthcare and much stricter gun laws as well as an official policy of being welcoming to immigration though. This doesn't stop us from having our own incels driving people over on the sidewalk in a van though (but the incel movement may be considered a cultural export from the south anyway). Most of our bad things are import from the south, like cheese whiz, conservatives and bud light.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:37
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Let's all take a break.
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Aug 4, 2019 19:42
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Thread's open. Look, we're all tired. We're all dealing with some level of existential dread in the hellscape that is our reality. We need to take a breath and remember that whoever we're arguing with is also a person who may be struggling with things we aren't aware of or isn't being the disingenuous poo poo we think they are. That includes me. It's easy for us to get swallowed up in whatever bullshit is weighing us down and sometimes we vent in a way we shouldn't. Anyway, done rambling. Thread's open. Let's get back to talking about how everything is terrible and then wonder why we're all stressed out.
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Aug 4, 2019 21:08
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quote:Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell suffered a fractured shoulder Sunday from a fall outside his home in Louisville, briefly hospitalizing the Kentucky Republican, his office said in a statement. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...4e39_story.html Please remember to send our beloved Mitch your thoughts and prayers.
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Aug 4, 2019 21:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6I_Zic29VQ
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Aug 4, 2019 21:15
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Please, thread, find solace in the fact that nobody is going to have a take quite so bad as this guy. https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1158074774297468928
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Aug 4, 2019 21:25
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