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I believe if you go down on a crit, it's Dying 2, and a crit fail on your flat check adds 2, so you can still go from up to dead pretty fast.
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Aug 6, 2019 14:01
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Toshimo posted:I believe if you go down on a crit, it's Dying 2, and a crit fail on your flat check adds 2, so you can still go from up to dead pretty fast. That said some higher level spells (Finger of Death, Disintegrate for instance) and effects look like they do immediately kill you if they take you to 0 hp, and I don't think heroic recovery would help there as it seems to imply you don't have any dying condition to reverse. You can reroll saves with them though. Kylra fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 14:15
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Kylra posted:"10 minute rest" after combat has been kind of post combat standard downtime in D&D/PF unless you're really pressed immediately or rush it to keep 10 minute buffs on. Though I haven't found a reference to such in PF2 SRD yet (books still forthcoming). There isn't any formal "short rest" mechanic, just a bunch of abilities that take 10 minutes that you would want to do immediately after combat (repairing your shield, treating wounds, refoucing, identifying magic items, etc.)
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Aug 6, 2019 14:50
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Red Metal posted:There isn't any formal "short rest" mechanic, just a bunch of abilities that take 10 minutes that you would want to do immediately after combat (repairing your shield, treating wounds, refoucing, identifying magic items, etc.)
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Aug 6, 2019 14:57
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Kylra posted:What I mean is, I don't see a reference that allowing 10 minutes to do those things should or should not be standard GM play. Honestly, have you ever actually played d&d or a successor before? Even if isn't a rule written in stone it is largely the custom to some degree or other depending on the table.
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Aug 6, 2019 15:01
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Expect Table Variance - applicable to workdays, rest periods, and kobolds. *Shudders*
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Aug 6, 2019 15:04
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Honestly, have you ever actually played d&d or a successor before? Even if isn't a rule written in stone it is largely the custom to some degree or other depending on the table.
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Aug 6, 2019 15:15
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Mostly it's on the players to figure out how to make that happen if they need? Like, find a defensible room and hole up or retreat out of the keep for a bit to catch their breath. If you're hip-deep in kobold keep with lots of active enemies around it'll be harder to figure out how to do it, but that's kind of the genre expectation. I mean, no, the GM isn't just going to let the characters stand around in the entry hall for ten minutes while the enemies twiddle their thumbs, that's kind of silly unless the enemies are doing something in the meantime themselves--organizing a counter-attack, waiting for allies, etc. I don't think you'll ever see a rule that "after a fight, there will be at minimum 10 minutes of downtime for the players" because that's a bit silly. It's a choice for the players--do we push on despite <whatever condition> or do we try to find some way to hole up for 10-15 minutes and handle it, despite the presence of enemies?
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Aug 6, 2019 15:55
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Not allowing time to refocus between encounters can mess with a lot of things though, from not being able to treat wounds (a big deal but huge to any party that doesn't have a glut of magical healing) to how viable a wildshape druid or other focus spell reliant build is. D&D 4e for instance is predicated on 5 minutes between combat encounters to recover encounter powers or use healing surges or whatnot being the rule rather than the exception, and I don't recall people calling that ridiculous without having to barricade the room after every fight. While 10 minutes sounds a little long, it's probably 10 minutes to clear out all the spells with a duration of 10 minutes after combats where you recover your focus powers or treat wounds or identify items. I'm currently reading it as the intent is to generally allow the time to refocus and such after a combat but all 10 minute or less buff and effects (which is most of them) go away. Narratively it takes time to gear up and ready yourself for combat from your usual gambling games or what have you or to just walk to somewhere for combat so I don't see a major issue with generally or often allowing people to recover or use those things once between fights. Kylra fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 16:57
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Narratively speaking a lot of D&Dlikes assume you can spare 5-10 minutes due to most of them assuming discrete time (encounters/rounds) vs. narrative time (exploration) mode. Otherwise you’re running into issues like justifying why consecutive encounters aren’t just one large encounter (and also just burnout from lack of dynamics). 10 minutes isn’t a whole lot of time, as things go.
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Aug 6, 2019 17:38
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gonna play my pathfinder like i play my baldur's gate 2, resting for 8 hours after every encounter so i can spam everything i got over and over
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Aug 6, 2019 17:40
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sugar free jazz posted:gonna play my pathfinder like i play my baldur's gate 2, resting for 8 hours after every encounter so i can spam everything i got over and over So you need to rest for 23.75 hours after every encounter.
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Aug 6, 2019 17:43
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01011001 posted:Narratively speaking a lot of D&Dlikes assume you can spare 5-10 minutes due to most of them assuming discrete time (encounters/rounds) vs. narrative time (exploration) mode. Otherwise you’re running into issues like justifying why consecutive encounters aren’t just one large encounter (and also just burnout from lack of dynamics). I always loved the idea of the encounter die in 13th age for that reason. A stacking +1 per full round of combat that reset when you took a 10 minute rest. It added an extra tactical layer and rewarded pushing yourselves instead of just taking a 10 minute breather after every 2 minutes of combat.
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Aug 6, 2019 17:44
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Kylra posted:You can explicitly only do that once per 24 hours in 2E! The rest slider goes all the way to 24h, no problem
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Aug 6, 2019 17:45
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01011001 posted:Narratively speaking a lot of D&Dlikes assume you can spare 5-10 minutes due to most of them assuming discrete time (encounters/rounds) vs. narrative time (exploration) mode. Otherwise you’re running into issues like justifying why consecutive encounters aren’t just one large encounter (and also just burnout from lack of dynamics). Yeah, the whole thing with dungeons and why they're such a huge part of the game still is that their structure is perfect for this. Kick open a door, fight whatever's in that room, catch your breath and poke around for secrets/loot/interesting hooks, kick open the next door. I totally buy that D&Dlikes don't even bother to make this explicit most of the time because it just feels natural and is how 90% of the groups playing these games have been doing it for years.
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Aug 6, 2019 18:40
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Kylra posted:It looks like negative hp is gone. You have to be reduced to 0 hp then get hit a few more times regardless of damage done or fail a few recovery checks. So no more immediate random low level character deletions from bandit greatsword criticals or just someone eating a few good high roll fireballs with failed saves. Though if you get back up again from healing or natural recovery, you get wounds that reduce the amount of hits/failed check before death if you go down again, until you Treat Wounds or have full hp for 10 minutes. This is good. This is very good.
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Aug 6, 2019 18:50
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I'm glad that negative HP is gone and they did it without running into the popcorn healing issues of 5e. In PF 1e, negative health was weird. At level 1, you can easily have more negative health than positive health; a 14 con wizard needed to take 2.75x their max health at level 1 to die. At level 20 that's often fallen off hard, where taking 1.1x your max health (e.g. a level 20, 14 con wizard has ~122hp) kills you. You'll still insta-die if you take 2x your max health in a single hit but outside of that 14 con wizard, that's killing anyone in PF 1e anyway. With maxed hit dice and the new ability score system meaning most characters will end up with high con, 2e characters are looking to have ~40-50% more health than their 1e counterparts. I also like one of the other quirks of the new death and dying system: when you go DBNO, your initiative goes before whoever knocked you. If you wake up—either through your own gumption or an ally's aid—you get a chance to go before whoever knocked you out in the first place. e: here are the full death/dying rules Elysiume fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 19:31
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Incidentally that's exactly how 5E D&D handles the same situation, with the added complication of wounds in PF to fix the perceived problem (ymmv) of the most efficient healing/support strategy being "let everybody get knocked out then pop them up with healing word between their turns"
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Aug 6, 2019 19:35
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It's not entirely obvious from the srd where some of the shared class feats are listed with all the class traits, but each class in the book itself has just its own specific class feat list with everything in it. And most class feats are class specific. Which makes feat picking way easier since all the chaff in the selection process is pre-emptively cut out basically. You look at one place and it has all and only the things for your class that isn't an archetype. Same for Ancestry. General and skill feats are shared obviously, but the list of those is cut down substantially compared to if everything were listed together. There's even suggested feat packs that pick out, say, all the bow feats in a handy short list for you (which you can also find under "sample builds" even though it's not a complete build), though those may not be as relevant when more content release unless they basically release more "feat paths" instead of adding more to what there. Which would be a smart idea to help prevent power creep and the PF1 problem of having to plan all your feats in advance from level 1 to 20. Kylra fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 20:41
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Incidentally that's exactly how 5E D&D handles the same situation, with the added complication of wounds in PF to fix the perceived problem (ymmv) of the most efficient healing/support strategy being "let everybody get knocked out then pop them up with healing word between their turns"
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Aug 6, 2019 21:29
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quote:Effect Fire rains from the sky in a 100-mile radius, dealing 10d6 fire damage to creatures and objects in the area.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:30
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Trap Vesuvius. You fell for my trapcano!
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Aug 6, 2019 21:42
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I'm going to be the not technically famous bandit constantly using Serum of Sex Shift to have a secret identity to evade capture.
Kylra fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 21:44
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Kylra posted:Well that is certainly a spectacular trap. I certainly appreciate that the traps listed aren't just "It's a spike pit" or "some darts fly out of walls I guess". The spell you use to discover all the thieves in your kingdom "So I see you survived the genocide trap without taking any damage"
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Aug 6, 2019 21:58
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Level 1 creatures seem to have around +9 attack bonuses. A level 1 wolf from the bestiary does 1d6+2 damage. A level one cloth character will likely have an AC of 10 + 3 proficiency + dex. At 0 dex, that leaves a hit on 4 and crit on 14-20. A level 1 Human Wizard with no con bonus has 8 race + 6 class hp for a total of 14. So a wolf could take down a 0 dex cloth wearer in two rounds at about a 10%ish chance with some napkin math. Two of these are a moderate difficulty encounter for a level 1 party. Armor values are probably about 3-5 higher than that though over all classes and builds though, so they probably won't be quite that fatal.Azhais posted:The spell you use to discover all the thieves in your kingdom
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Aug 6, 2019 22:13
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Elysiume posted:Yeah, that's what I mean by popcorn healing. It definitely can be a problem, especially if you have multiple people with Healing Word. A bonus (roughly equivalent to a PF 1e swift) action to heal for any amount of health means that you can just keep bouncing people up and down as long as they don't go from up to dead before you get a turn. If you have multiple characters with Healing Word it gets outright silly. Totally. I played a Cleric in our last 5E game and used every single 1st level slot forever on Healing Word and Bless. If other 1st-level spells exist, I'm unaware of them. The "ymmv" is just because I have mixed feelings on how big of a problem it is; I agree that it's narratively silly for people to be constantly getting knocked out and revived, but I don't know that there's anything mechanically wrong with it. PF 2E's system fixes that narrative problem at the expense of making the rules for it more complex, which is more of a tradeoff (depending on what you value in a game) than an upgrade.
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Aug 6, 2019 23:27
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Ryuujin posted:So apparently Wild Order Druids only get 1 Focus Point. So if they end up in multiple combats without a ten minute rest to Refocus, they aren't going to be able to use Wild Shape for much of them. As Wild Shape lasts 1 minute and costs a Focus Point. Your best option for more focus is to start as a Leaf/Storm druid (2 points of focus at level 1) and then take Wild Order at level 2 (you lose Wild Morph if you care about that), putting you two levels behind on your wild shape feats but with extra focus. When appropriate you can pick up another leaf/storm power that grants focus. Alternatively, fit in two feats for multiclassing something that gives you another feat. Trying to start as a Wild Order and grap more focus points within the class costs three(!) feats on some trash.
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Aug 6, 2019 23:56
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Kylra posted:Level 1 creatures seem to have around +9 attack bonuses. A level 1 wolf from the bestiary does 1d6+2 damage. A level one cloth character will likely have an AC of 10 + 3 proficiency + dex. At 0 dex, that leaves a hit on 4 and crit on 14-20. A level 1 Human Wizard with no con bonus has 8 race + 6 class hp for a total of 14. So a wolf could take down a 0 dex cloth wearer in two rounds at about a 10%ish chance with some napkin math. Two of these are a moderate difficulty encounter for a level 1 party. Armor values are probably about 3-5 higher than that though over all classes and builds though, so they probably won't be quite that fatal. Shield and Mage Armor exist, though, so event the squishiest character doesn't get it quite that bad.
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Aug 7, 2019 00:47
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Having no Con bonus is also obviously kind of an edge case. The default ability score generation is pretty generous and mostly lets you decide where the points go. Having less than 12 Con seems like a questionable decision for anyone who isn't extremely MAD, and Wizards aren't.
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Aug 7, 2019 01:14
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If you have less than 12 Con, you're making an active choice to do so, I would think - and hopefully you got something out of it like extra Dex or something.
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Aug 7, 2019 04:13
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Worth noting that every class lists constitution as a secondary score, on top of what you two said.
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Aug 7, 2019 04:25
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Are the rules for 2e on monster/creature level and how it works stored anywhere in particular? I assume Level -1 means you have to throw a handful at a party to equal Level 1, is it just +1 Creature Level per entity or something?
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Aug 7, 2019 04:55
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01011001 posted:Are the rules for 2e on monster/creature level and how it works stored anywhere in particular? I assume Level -1 means you have to throw a handful at a party to equal Level 1, is it just +1 Creature Level per entity or something? If the party is level 1, a level -1 enemy is a -2 threat (20xp). If you want a moderate threat encounter, you can throw four -1 CR enemies at them. If you want an extreme threat, you could throw two -1 CR (2 x 20) and two 2 CR (2 x 60) enemies at them. For some questions of my own: 1. Does casting still inherently provoke an AoO? 2. Can anyone other than a fighter even get an AoO? 3. Are you allowed to cast as many spells in a turn as you can fit? Elysiume fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 06:08
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Elysiume posted:For some questions of my own: 1. Casting doesn’t. Manipulate actions, which include somatic and material components, do. Some abilities and monsters can trigger off concentrate actions, which includes verbal components. (This matters for quickened and most single action spells, plus sustaining a spell.) 2. Champions and Barbarians can as a class feat later. 3. Yes. Note that fourth actions from Quick condition restrict what you can use them on and don’t seem to include spellcasting options yet. Drone Jett fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 11:55
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Toshimo posted:Shield and Mage Armor exist, though, so event the squishiest character doesn't get it quite that bad. Kylra fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 13:31
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Having no Con bonus is also obviously kind of an edge case. The default ability score generation is pretty generous and mostly lets you decide where the points go. Having less than 12 Con seems like a questionable decision for anyone who isn't extremely MAD, and Wizards aren't.
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Aug 7, 2019 13:52
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https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Core-Rulebook-Jason-Bulmahn/dp/1640781684/ <- Pathfinder 2E Sourcebooks already on sale for 40% off on Amazon for some dumbfuck reason.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:59
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Toshimo posted:https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Core-Rulebook-Jason-Bulmahn/dp/1640781684/ <- Pathfinder 2E Sourcebooks already on sale for 40% off on Amazon for some dumbfuck reason.
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Aug 7, 2019 23:54
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dwarf74 posted:lmbo, the top review is griping about how "PC" it is Good. Maybe people will see that it's inclusive and buy it. 
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Aug 7, 2019 23:59
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Toshimo posted:Good. Maybe people will see that it's inclusive and buy it. 
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Aug 8, 2019 00:04
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