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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'd say PJ should probably be careful to avoid falling too hard into the writing tics common to people suffering from untreated schizophrenia, but on a moment's thought not only does PJ probably know those all too well but most of said tics I can think of are almost indistinguishable from academic writing anyway, which has its own disturbing implications. I actually have a section of my website devoted specifically to that. Quoting the two relevant articles below: Schizophrenia and Randomly Capitalized Words posted:Schizophrenia and Randomly Capitalized Words Tugging at the Gordian knot: Translating schizophrenia into linear thought. posted:
Also if you all ever wonder why there's frequently long gaps between updates, it's because I have to first figure out my ideas in my own internal language, and then work out how to communicate those ideas to the rest of you all.
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# ? Jul 21, 2019 11:51 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:11 |
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I really enjoyed that description of just sitting and making connections creatively for enjoyment, I really identify with the sense of fulfillment from that kind of activity. Also interesting to hear how schizophrenia can help one come up with great metaphors. For my part I can say that reading basic pop science articles and books about the subject I'm engaging with is extremely helpful for the testing phase you speak of, the basic patterns those texts reveal let me design a more rigorous bar that random ideas have to pass and generally keep a check on which established models as well as simple assorted facts the ideas are consistent with and which they contradict (established models often don't agree with each other or real phenomena and critiquing them is a big part of the fun). Of course and no less importantly they also feed my creativity by introducing me to new data points and patterns to make connections from. I mean, just generally to anyone else who follows this thread because they viscerally enjoy these kinds of creation processes, reading long texts may feel like a chore that takes away from the fun, but once you get adept at finding stuff that inspires you, it's really the opposite. And of course there are podcasts, audiobooks etc. if listening is more up your alley.
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# ? Jul 21, 2019 15:00 |
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Thanks for explaining. I kinda get the impression that a lot of those things are kinda things that everyone does, but obviously a lot more pronounced in that case. Which I suppose is another core part of the whole theory.
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# ? Jul 21, 2019 16:12 |
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.... but capitalizing 'random' words is Extremely Good, actually
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# ? Jul 26, 2019 01:00 |
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This is interesting: https://twitter.com/Civiqs/status/1...ingawful.com%2F Pretty impressive imo for a 4chan prank to take in fully 30% of Americans.
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# ? Jul 27, 2019 05:37 |
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Makes sense, the internet makes you stupid and Americans all have it now
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# ? Jul 27, 2019 07:06 |
The Atlantic has an interview with a former white nationalist. Here are a few choice bits. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/conversation-christian-picciolini/595543/ quote:Bayoumy: Talk to us about the evolution you’ve seen since you were in the movement 30 years ago—these views used to be on the fringe, and now are much more mainstream.
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# ? Aug 7, 2019 02:56 |
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That's a great interview because it demonstrates the only way to get through to people caught up in a movement. Not with debates or big revelatory evidence that you think is most damning, that never works --- but rather setting them up with actual lived experiences.
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# ? Aug 7, 2019 03:55 |
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RandomPauI posted:The Atlantic has an interview with a former white nationalist. Here are a few choice bits. You can't love all of mankind if you don't love yourself.
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# ? Aug 7, 2019 04:56 |
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Just wanted to say PJ was right about there being an escalation in violence as part of this Compaction.
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# ? Aug 7, 2019 20:03 |
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it feels a little weird to describe a group dynamic like Compaction without a firmly-defined group to have that dynamic
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 06:17 |
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LordSaturn posted:it feels a little weird to describe a group dynamic like Compaction without a firmly-defined group to have that dynamic You did a violence. You did a gatekeeping. You did an elitism and an ivory tower. You did no effort to perform these terms having external meaning. This makes it abundantly clear you don't understand the intersectional nature of the multiplicity of your offenses.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 06:21 |
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LordSaturn posted:it feels a little weird to describe a group dynamic like Compaction without a firmly-defined group to have that dynamic Trump supporters are a defined group imo. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 15:56 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 14:07 |
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Aleph Null posted:Just wanted to say PJ was right about there being an escalation in violence as part of this Compaction.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 15:06 |
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Just wanted to say Alex Jones was right all along, this IS the summer of rage!
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 15:11 |
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Aardark posted:Swooping in to say so-and-so was right based on some vague prediction is a classic right wing idiot tactic. Four years ago I was being derided (often in much the same tone) for taking positions like "Fox News is going to go full white supremacist" and "a violent fusion of fringe right wing groups will emerge and seize control of the Republican Party". To specifically address what Aleph Null was referencing: in the last few months I posted quite a bit about my theory of "popcorn kettle" terrorism; specifically in the context of how/why I expected there to start being a significant uptick in these Lone Wolf attacks that have lately become so frequent. Search sucks and it's not really practical to pull up all of these posts, but I went back and found two and quoted them below for reference: Prester Jane posted:I've been thinking the same thing for some time myself. I posited a theory sometime back about what I called a "popcorn kettle" wave of terrorism. The idea here is that individuals who can potentially become radicalized enough to engage in Terror attacks are like seeds of popcorn in a kettle, inert until sufficient heat and pressure is applied. (Heat and pressure in this metaphor represent the general level of radicalization and extremist rhetoric present in the population.) As the heat and pressure level increases in the kettle, at first you start to see random kernels pop off here and there by themselves, then a staccato rapid fire of individual kernels popping off, and then as things really ramp yp you start to see bunches of kernels popping simultaneously. Likewise I believe that in the wave of radicalization spreading through the American populace, we will see first Lone Wolf terrorist attacks as we have been seeing, followed by the emergence of small groups carrying out coordinated Terror campaigns. Prester Jane posted:https://twitter.com/dallasnews/status/1140656385899814912?s=19 Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 16:24 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:02 |
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Aardark posted:Swooping in to say so-and-so was right based on some vague prediction is a classic right wing idiot tactic. I was phone-posting while pooping so I didn't have an easy way to go look up the relevant posts, but PJ directly predicted rising violence of white supremacist terrorists. What she did not predict was that some news outlets are actually calling them "terrorists" and not "lone wolves".
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:57 |
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Aleph Null posted:I was phone-posting while pooping so I didn't have an easy way to go look up the relevant posts, but PJ directly predicted rising violence of white supremacist terrorists. What she did not predict was that some news outlets are actually calling them "terrorists" and not "lone wolves". Dave Neiwert has been tracking this since the 90's. And didn't even need to make an internal alphabet to do it.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:12 |
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Aardark posted:Swooping in to say so-and-so was right based on some vague prediction is a classic right wing idiot tactic. No, it's a cult tactic. This thread is about studying cult behaviors and has established repeatedly that they're not limited to the right wing, case in point the Mueller report worshipping centrists. Even those on the far left are susceptible to cult behaviors because all human brains are, but we at least have some humility and self-reflection about it since we are bothering to study them in the first place. Lurk more.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:13 |
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Willie Tomg posted:Dave Neiwert has been tracking this since the 90's. And didn't even need to make an internal alphabet to do it. Is your gimmick just posting "NUH UH I READ BOOKS" every thread?
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:18 |
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*there are 400 million guns in the usa, the right has been organizing and militarizing since the 80s aided by sympathetic politicians and a hapless where not equally sympathetic law enforcement while the left has been disarming and even primordial orgs are infiltrated and compromised, all while the economic situation gets more and more desperate creating circumstances that've been seen before at crisis points in history* Ah. My powers of deduction tell me this will end... poorly. Yes, a classic Recursive Cragjunction, I've seen this many a time...
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:22 |
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T-man posted:Is your gimmick just posting "NUH UH I READ BOOKS" every thread? lmao knowing things and seeking out information independently is a gimmick to you. Neiwert has been writing about militarized right wing groups and domestic terror since Ruby Ridge, if one is minded to make categorical statements about their composition I would suggest Eliminationists as a relatively recent starting point because that's how you replace reckons with knowledge. There's field work and statistical analysis and where he couldn't get there or do it himself he provided a bibliography of other works where other people did, so you can trace for yourself how he formed his conclusions instead of just accepting what he says. I mention him specifically because he's been screaming for 30 years that right wing violence has been continually rising and will continue because it's been a trend.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:31 |
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Yeah, but what did Neiwert have to say about the Final Fantasy 7 House?
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:34 |
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Willie Tomg posted:I mention him specifically because he's been screaming for 30 years that right wing violence has been continually rising and will continue because it's been a trend. *it should be noted that this was not a universal reaction to my work Further, my work requires a complex lexicon because it is dealing specifically with the psychological factors at play in the radicalization process. And this radicalization process extends well beyond simply right wing politics, or even politics in general. It's a conflict but specific and recognizable Behavior pattern, and addressing this Behavior pattern in these terms has required the construction of a novel lexicon. (Also why are you complaining about my work using a specific lexicon in the thread that is supposedly the "containment zone" for me to quitely discuss said lexicon with other interested Goons?) Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 17:41 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:36 |
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One second thought, nevermind.
Helsing has issued a correction as of 18:04 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:54 |
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Helsing posted:One second thought, nevermind. I saw the original, and I just don't even know what to say.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:10 |
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Prester Jane posted:
because you seem to have the purpose of a containment thread backwards and that's a very simple term by itself which bodes ill for your deployment of subsequent terms your own or otherwise, and because i've seen goon cults form before around personalities before, and this is one of them, and this is specifically a goon cult about how everyone you seem to not like is in a cult except for people itt who agree with you and are nice to you so the congregants may be excised of the burden of materialist analysis. it seems partially that you feel a sense of reclaimed power sewing from whole cloth a networked cosmology (which is really just social identity theory with a skim of Berger's sacred canopy) and that the kind of goon who gets real mad at the suggestion that books have been written about this in the past does so on your behalf feeds this. it also seems that what you went through growing up damaged you so profoundly that you're unable to conceive of a mental system without the just-so idiosyncrasies that they literally tried to physically beat into you, and you (unconsciously?) reproduce those idiosyncrasies with such startling fidelity i thought that that was the joke when this thread was in the Shift Key Shithouse. trying different ways to process that is no harm and no foul until the specific point where you begin using those mechanisms to relive your trauma again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, like a cat eating its own hairballs day in and day out for weeks, and then the people flattering that exercise are not helping you in the way they'd like to think they are. because the more you venerate this temple you're making out of your trauma, the more you perceive incisive criticisms about your ideas as attempts to render your lived experiences invalid. which is not the case. if you have trouble with the words then that's understandable but the solution is not to make up words as a first choice, the solution is to go out and find them. research owns because even when you don't find what you're looking for you find what you need. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:10 |
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fun project: apply your ideas to the people in this thread and yourself, not just the people who aren't here to disagree with you or cannot be interviewed so we can get a clearer picture into their mindset (again i recommend Neiwert because he collects interviews and case studies with a more secular/agnostic kind of militancy i sincerely think you'd find interesting!) if your idea is a fundamentally psychological one--and i contend, no it is not, narrativism as you've described it is sociological/anthropological depending on how othering you wish to be to the objects of your study--then surely none here are without psychologies.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:14 |
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lol go outside
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:19 |
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LordSaturn posted:lol i can do exactly that, you're the one stuck in the containment thread with your tired bullshit lmao
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:28 |
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why does all the supposed "constructive criticism" always turn into yelling at PJ and describing anyone who posts in this thread without ripping her apart as cult members she's not asking you to donate money or go live in her compound in the woods. how is posting in an extremely slow moving thread cult like behavior?
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:30 |
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I don't want to alarm you, but I think you might be having a psychotic break.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:31 |
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So today I had one goon write a long effort post about how I'm not taking the responsibilities seriously enough that come with my level of influence on the forum; and another goon writing a long effortpost about how in the process of writing a theory about cults- I've (unbeknownst to myself) become a cult leader. Getting mixed feedback here guys, all I'm saying.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:32 |
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anyway i got like 5 minutes left of lunch and then its back to surreptitious shitposting about jeffrey epstein when i have a second but please consider PJ that incurious worshippers are a poor substitute for.... whatever practical purpose you ultimately decide to apply this to, if any.WampaLord posted:why does all the supposed "constructive criticism" always turn into yelling at PJ and describing anyone who posts in this thread without ripping her apart as cult members its a real headscratcher i tells ya.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:32 |
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Willie Tomg posted:incurious worshippers gently caress off Willie Tomg posted:its a real headscratcher i tells ya. so the answer is that you're a giant rear end in a top hat?
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:34 |
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Prester Jane posted:I saw the original, and I just don't even know what to say. I did too Helsing I just want to say I think (hope) you might be overestimating how we in here react to PJ's theories a bit. I mean we like her metaphors and stories a lot, but if she were to just up and declare tomorrow that some element about the Russiagate conspiracy is definitely going to happen or was going on in secret, I don't think anyone here would bite. In fact most posters that I've read here have agreed with you that there is a US media movement about Russia that itself is far more influential, well funded, and dangerous than Russian efforts. Folks in CSPAM are a little bit more cautious about information than elsewhere. Willie Tomg your reading list recommendation would go over better by actually including stuff from it and not being weirdly hostile. It's easy, just don't be weird, people. It sounds like a pretty relevant and good read though. Happy Thread has issued a correction as of 19:07 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:37 |
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Dumb Lowtax posted:In fact most posters that I've read here have agreed with you that there is a US media movement about Russia that itself is far more influential, well funded, and dangerous than Russian efforts. I would agree with the above as well. My writings have focused on Russia exploiting a particular facet of human psychology (Narrativism) in (what I believe to be) specific psyops- that doesn't mean that the radicalization spreading through our society is because of Russia. Quite the contrary, the radicalization spreading through society is the cause of a whole host of factors that would require an entire paragraph to even try and summarize- Russia is just opportunistically pouring gas on the fire in a disciplined way. They aren't responsible for the fire, they're just doing what they can to make sure it's as bad as possible, because that suits their agenda just fine. The propaganda Network that is the American Media is hilariously zillions of more times more powerful and dangerous than anything Russia is doing, and that's including CNN and MSNBC. Fox News is more-or-less openly peddling purestrain high-compaction Narrativism at this point: but they are still small-fry compared to the rest of American media. MSNBC/CNN et all are largely selling the preferred version of events that our corporate owners have decided the public should accept. (And their collective influence is much greater then that of Fox News/the RWN echosphere ) As compared to what I write about : I believe that CNN/MSNBC et all represent a different form of propaganda; obe preying on different psychological weaknesses and targeted at a different kind of crowd. In the particular case of the US this particular form of propaganda is much more widespread/uncritically accepted than even white supremacist propaganda is at this point. (Although if my theory is correct, unless Trumpism is stopped that ratio will reverse at some point in the midterm future as Narrativism continues to spread throughout our society) Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 19:14 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:59 |
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To be a little bit more blunt about things: Russia wishes it had the ability to spread radicalization through our society to the degree that YouTube's loving algorithms have been doing for the past ~2 years*. *Portions of Gen-Z are getting really really really hosed up by the media they are being exposed too by the recommendation algorithms- I don't know exactly what it's going to look like but I expect there to be some sort of (unexpectedly widespread) Zoomer equivalent to Otherkin in about 10 years or so.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:17 |
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Willie Tomg posted:if your idea is a fundamentally psychological one--and i contend, no it is not, narrativism as you've described it is sociological/anthropological depending on how othering you wish to be to the objects of your study--then surely none here are without psychologies. "Myths of Origin" is a sociological/anthropological idea remarkably similiar to "narratives". And what happens when myths of origin are broken ties into how both fascism and socialism arise. And how the whole thing is related to religion.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:40 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 14:11 |
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Prester Jane posted:To be a little bit more blunt about things: Russia wishes it had the ability to spread radicalization through our society to the degree that YouTube's loving algorithms have been doing for the past ~2 years*. Probably not helping with Zoomers growing up in even more of a cultural blasted wasteland than we did. Everything that can't be immediately monetised or converted into support for fascism is being defunded out of existence. We're already seeing the results of traditional forms of kinship and societal bonds being obliterated by capitalism to create generations of alienated and lonely young people who struggle to find any community that doesn't revolve around spending money.
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# ? Aug 10, 2019 02:43 |