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Should Gaj make his own thread This poll is closed. |
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| Yes, make a new thread |
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6 | 54.55% |
| No, keep things just how they are |
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5 | 45.45% |
| Total: | 11 votes | ||
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Americans had to teach themselves what math actually is in order to get to the more advanced stuff, because the teachers definitely didn't. Even the "smart kid" classes were full of nothing but memorizing formulas
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Aug 7, 2019 13:57
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:US math classes were memorizing multiplication tables of 1x1 all the way to 12x12 along with memorizing whatever formula is being taught at the moment until you forget it when moving on to the next. So, is math just not a thing past elementary school? Because I don't see how that could work with the stuff you learn later like functions, graphs, probabilities etc.
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Aug 7, 2019 13:59
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Most kids go up to at least geometry and basic algebra and some schools offer stats and calculus. But they didnt teach any of them very well. They go over how you make a graph or use a formula, but not really why you do a thing instead of another formula or why it matters in the real world
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Aug 7, 2019 14:10
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the highest math level required in tx when I went was algebra II and I think that was lowered to algebra I after I left
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Aug 7, 2019 14:11
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hawowanlawow posted:the highest math level required in tx when I went was algebra II and I think that was lowered to algebra I after I left I've always had issues with numbers, and I was always in the remedial math classes. One of my friends jokingly called it "counting with numbers." I definitely graduated with the bare minimum of math.
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Aug 7, 2019 14:16
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Part-Time Maenad posted:That's fair. But it's probably worth noting that lots of younger Millennial/Gen Z kids were raised more by their Boomer grandparents than their Gen-X parents for a variety of reasons. poo poo can be hard to separate. There's also millennials like me that have super old boomer parents who had kids late in life. A lot of times it feels like I was raised by my grandparents, but god drat they're old as hell.
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Aug 7, 2019 14:25
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I didn't learn poo poo about math in k-12 I had to take the "remedial algebra + conceptual math for lib arts morons to satisfy their requirement" class in college, and even then I took it by itself in the summer so I didn't have anything else to worry about and yet I'm still better than most of my coworkers somehow
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Aug 7, 2019 14:26
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I can kind of get parental hate of new new math because their first exposure to it is at 7pm on a Thursday night when their kid needs help with their homework. If you were raised on new math you might be able to figure it out after some work, but if you were a Boomer who only knows old math there's no loving way. Friendly numbers? WTF? The new system is better, but it's confusing as hell if you've never been exposed to it.
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Aug 7, 2019 14:49
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Does anyone else have trouble conceptualizing numbers in their head? I have a fairly weak minds eye and think almost entirely in words so when I’m looking at a math problem I’m thinking about the word three rather than the number three if that makes sense? I was constantly flunking math in school and I still can’t do more than really basic math even though I got great grades in everything else.
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Aug 7, 2019 16:05
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My high school in a suburban Texas town in the early 2000s definitely offered up to ap calc BC, which is two or three semesters of college calculus. I don't know anyone who didn't at least take pre calc.
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Aug 7, 2019 16:37
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My highschool geometry teacher declared, despite a B+ in their course, I was too stupid for pre-calc and thus was shunted into the "practical math" course. Practical math as it turned out was nothing but "hey this is what compound interest is", "this is how taxes work", and "invest your money to beat inflation" so I have to give them credit they didnt lie that it was actually useful for real life.
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Aug 7, 2019 16:45
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I was poo poo at math too, largely because it I failed to see the point of algebra beyond memorizing a bunch of random formulas and using them for pointless exercises. History, English, and Latin were my jam and everything else could go to hell. I tried approaching it again as a grown rear end adult and with more patience and discipline by screwing around on Khan’s Academy and reading Euclid and was pleased to discover I’m not completely incapable of understanding the logic behind mathematical formulas. Funny how the ancients took time to explain the logic and philosophy behind concepts, but American teachers don’t. I also got a MUCH greater appreciation for physics, even formula heavy stuff like mechanics. Can’t wait to do soda can implosions with my kids someday.
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Aug 7, 2019 17:51
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Coucho Marx posted:Like, what's 137 x 12? That's not on the multiplication table, so you're SOL there, and if most of your primary school math education was from the 90s or early 2000s (the average age of SA users must be around 30 by now), you'd have been told to write it out as a sum, or just use a calculator. A huge chunk of our 5th and 6th grade math curriculum was studying flashcards with equations like this on them with the goal of memorizing the answers. We then had timed tests on them where you had maybe 2-3 seconds to write down the answer and if you didn't have everything memorized you had no chance. I still have no idea what any of that crap was supposed to teach us, other than that math was stressful and sucked. I have never in my life had to arbitrarily recall what 154*11 is, although I can do it in my head in a few seconds. Funnily enough, a lot of people who were good at that stuff and were tracked into honors math courses because of it quit after Algebra 2, because once it became more about real mathematics than arithmetic a lot of people just didn't get it.
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Aug 7, 2019 18:27
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Krispy Wafer posted:I can kind of get parental hate of new new math because their first exposure to it is at 7pm on a Thursday night when their kid needs help with their homework. If you were raised on new math you might be able to figure it out after some work, but if you were a Boomer who only knows old math there's no loving way. Friendly numbers? WTF? No, they hate it because it is different. This is stuff taught to elementary school kids. Adults that claim it is "too confusing" are just lazy, stubborn or both. Part-Time Maenad posted:Ugh, this is the worst. Also pretending they're too old to learn new things after age 45 or so. SwitchbladeKult fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 18:32
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Wasn’t there a similar change in how arithmetic was done back in the 60s or whatever and the same thing happened with frustrated old farts braying about how the new system was nonsensical gobbledygook? I remember Tom Lehrer wrote a song about it.
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Aug 7, 2019 18:52
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new math. i had teachers in the 90s who still complained about it, though i don't know what it actually means
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Aug 7, 2019 18:59
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ProperGanderPusher posted:I was poo poo at math too, largely because it I failed to see the point of algebra beyond memorizing a bunch of random formulas and using them for pointless exercises. History, English, and Latin were my jam and everything else could go to hell. I had a similar experience. I was AWFUL at math in High School. I went back to college after a long gap and grudgingly took the mandatory math classes, only to find out that they were actually interesting, just fun puzzles.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:04
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bad posts ahead!!! posted:new math. i had teachers in the 90s who still complained about it, though i don't know what it actually means yeah i grew up in the 80's and 90's and we did not have common core at all, but i definitely remember old people on tv complaning at the time about "the new math" and i never knew what they meant
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Aug 7, 2019 19:05
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new math was a temporary change in the curriculum that was experimented with briefly for a time in the 60-70s? that centered around teaching more abstract concepts at a much younger age. for example I believe introductory set theory was introduced early on at the grade or middle school level and it was done at the expense of more basic concepts like arithmetic and geometry that have much more applications to the real world. a number of scientists came out against it as a means of teaching mathematics, the most famous I know of was Richard Feynman. it was ultimately stopped on a wide scale
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Aug 7, 2019 19:08
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bad posts ahead!!! posted:new math. i had teachers in the 90s who still complained about it, though i don't know what it actually means Brief summary: The USA was shocked when the USSR put up the first satellite and first man in space. ("Those commies are kicking our asses in science! We need smarter kids to beat the Russkies in the future!" ) In response they revised the math curriculum in schools and introduced a whole lot of new ideas. The problem was that this was done too fast, so it was often taught by teachers who didn't really grasp the concepts themselves. Parents didn't know it either, so they couldn't help their kids with their homework and thought the whole system was bad. It was a mess, eventually dropped, and a whole generation ended up bad at math as a result. Edit: This sums up the feeling at the time:  Edit: Lactose is faster than me. Cessna fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 19:12
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Changing the education system in the US is herding cats, especially if those half those cats think what you propose is against their God, and the other half is making money off the way things work now.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:41
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The_Franz posted:A huge chunk of our 5th and 6th grade math curriculum was studying flashcards with equations like this on them with the goal of memorizing the answers. We then had timed tests on them where you had maybe 2-3 seconds to write down the answer and if you didn't have everything memorized you had no chance. I still have no idea what any of that crap was supposed to teach us, other than that math was stressful and sucked. I had poo poo like this in the first and second grades for addition and subtraction. Just sheets full of dozen of equations we had to do in timed drills and it gave me intense, blistering panic to the point I'd hid in my closet and cry instead of doing math homework. I managed to coast on rote memorization until algebra where they got out the graphs and points and letters and I no longer knew what going on, and it was incredibly frustrating because I tried and I should have been good, because I was honor roll and advanced placement classes at everything thing else. Our math teacher was actually the football coach and his method of teaching was "well what does the text book tell you? x goes there, because that's where it belongs? Why don't you get it?" I too was put into business math so I could graduate. At least I learned what interest and balance sheets were. I wish I could say when I went back to college in my late 20s I understood it, but I struggled with pretty basic stuff there too, like economics and accounting formulas.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:21
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Ralph Crammed In posted:I had poo poo like this in the first and second grades for addition and subtraction. Just sheets full of dozen of equations we had to do in timed drills and it gave me intense, blistering panic to the point I'd hid in my closet and cry instead of doing math homework. I managed to coast on rote memorization until algebra where they got out the graphs and points and letters and I no longer knew what going on, and it was incredibly frustrating because I tried and I should have been good, because I was honor roll and advanced placement classes at everything thing else. Our math teacher was actually the football coach and his method of teaching was "well what does the text book tell you? x goes there, because that's where it belongs? Why don't you get it?"  I recall having to finish the same sheets correctly 3 times in a row before being able to move on to the next tier. I think I managed to make it to tier 2, and everyone else was at 6+, with the highest being celebrated. Doing the math, this was 88/89 I think.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:29
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There's definitely a lot of bad teachers out there, but I'm more curious about who makes the curriculums. I assume not often someone who's good at or even cares about math and how it works! So when the person deciding how math gets taught doesn't understand math beyond "you out numbers in a formula and another number magically appears" then you probably aren't getting a great curriculum. E: to make this more on topic, one of my math teachers was a huge boomer. Also a gym / football coach, he would sometimes spend the entire period talking about his theories on the JFK assassination.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:49
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Around 90/91 for me. Even now I get uncomfortable thinking about those long sheets. My mom had some learn at home workbooks that sorta common core explained it, now that I've read what common core is, but I don't think she understood it too well either. I had such an aversion to math though so early in school it would have taken a lot to get me to have a healthy approach to it. I'm relived my husband had math as his best subject in school so when our son needs math homework help he can do it.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:50
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How did the soviet union teach math?
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Aug 7, 2019 20:55
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How did the soviet union teach math?
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Aug 7, 2019 20:55
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Methanar posted:How did the soviet union teach math? In Soviet Union, math taught them!
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Aug 7, 2019 21:02
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CodfishCartographer posted:There's definitely a lot of bad teachers out there, but I'm more curious about who makes the curriculums. I assume not often someone who's good at or even cares about math and how it works! So when the person deciding how math gets taught doesn't understand math beyond "you out numbers in a formula and another number magically appears" then you probably aren't getting a great curriculum. I work in educational publishing. There used to be three big publishers, now there are a lot more open source / mom and pop curriculum publishers. The big three have had some of the best phd's in the field writing the textbooks. These are names that teachers recognize and actually get excited about, people like Ron Larson or Kylene Beers. Large public school districts typically have a curriculum coordinator. They most likely have a masters degree and review a few options, before narrowing it down to 1 or 2 programs. From there a committee of teachers usually decide. For small districts and private schools it's usually the most senior teacher is told to go find a new math program. That or the principal takes care of it all. Content: Boomers love to watch 24 hours news networks.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:10
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boomers seem to love throwing temper tantrums at eating establishments
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Aug 7, 2019 21:15
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America loves memorization, it's common to hear that someone is a math genius because they're memorized pi up to ___ digits. Also, history is nothing except memorizing dates and maybe a few names
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Aug 7, 2019 21:27
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Boomers like putting those fake money "tips" for the staff instead of actual money
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Aug 7, 2019 21:28
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Kanine posted:boomers seem to love throwing temper tantrums at eating establishments Because they know the staff won't clap back or sock them. They don't try it on the street with randoms.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:47
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Slaan posted:Boomers like putting those fake money "tips" for the staff instead of actual money Those are Christians. But boomers are notorious for doing this poo poo. I used to work for a restaurant and ran out the door giving him back his fake money. I asked him if he uses that when the collection plate is passed along and called him an rear end in a top hat. Thoughts and prayers are not going to pay the bills. Thank god I got a higher education and walked away from that bullshit.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:51
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SwitchbladeKult posted:No, they hate it because it is different. This is stuff taught to elementary school kids. Adults that claim it is "too confusing" are just lazy, stubborn or both. It's not as simple as that. Your kid comes up to you needing help and you solve the math problem as you were taught, which is no longer the way things are done. Stuff like carrying the 1 is done differently now. If they have to show their work then Little Timmy gets marked down for doing it the wrong way and everyone gets frustrated. No one's 'wrong' in this case, it's just an inevitable side effect of progress. CodfishCartographer posted:There's definitely a lot of bad teachers out there, but I'm more curious about who makes the curriculums. I assume not often someone who's good at or even cares about math and how it works! So when the person deciding how math gets taught doesn't understand math beyond "you out numbers in a formula and another number magically appears" then you probably aren't getting a great curriculum. It varies by district and state, but usually there's a set of standards and the teacher has leeway on how they teach the material as long as it's adhering to standards. Your lesson plans will cite which standards you're teaching to cover your rear end with administrators. And yeah, they're bad teachers but that's usually because they don't know how to teach not because they don't know the material. The certification exam for elementary school just confirms you know everything up to 8th grade. The push for the last 15+ years has to been to standardize the instruction nationwide, but then Texas has to admit dinosaurs are real and no one wants that.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:25
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Barudak posted:Practical math as it turned out was nothing but "hey this is what compound interest is", "this is how taxes work", and "invest your money to beat inflation" so I have to give them credit they didnt lie that it was actually useful for real life. Many teachers felt the same way and it was always so frustrating that these types of life skills were only taught to students who went into Math Foundations or whatever. Thankfully in my province they changed the Social Studies 9 curriculum to include a unit on Financial Citizenship that addresses important things for students to know.
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Aug 7, 2019 23:17
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There’s a lot of money to be made on financial illiteracy. I wouldn’t expect such courses becoming common in public schools anytime soon. Like, my dad had no idea what an index fund was when I brought the subject up the other day, and he’s not otherwise BWM.
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Aug 8, 2019 00:53
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https://youtu.be/UIKGV2cTgqA
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Aug 8, 2019 02:00
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We could have a whole thread dedicated to "hosed up ways we were taught math in school"
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Aug 8, 2019 02:37
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We could have a whole thread dedicated to "hosed up ways we were taught math in school"
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Aug 8, 2019 02:58
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