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As someone who's never played 4e before I really want a guide to what to do to run a simple one shot. As far as what math to use and what one shots aren't garbage
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:08 |
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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:37 |
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Jarvisi posted:As someone who's never played 4e before I really want a guide to what to do to run a simple one shot. As far as what math to use and what one shots aren't garbage Monster manual 3
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:36 |
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Also Monster Vault, and I believe Dark Sun Creature Catalog. Monster Vault in particular will help you find the basic D&D monsters everyone craves, but now in new "Not a big fuckin' harmless bag of hit points" format.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:47 |
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theironjef posted:Also Monster Vault, and I believe Dark Sun Creature Catalog. Monster Vault in particular will help you find the basic D&D monsters everyone craves, but now in new "Not a big fuckin' harmless bag of hit points" format. Really if you just play 4e dark sun you'll have a good time To clarify why the above is recommended, 4e at launch had combats that took ages. At one point they realized that wasnt fun so they cut health down a lot and just made them mildly more dangerous to compensate
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:49 |
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theironjef posted:Also Monster Vault, and I believe Dark Sun Creature Catalog. Monster Vault in particular will help you find the basic D&D monsters everyone craves, but now in new "Not a big fuckin' harmless bag of hit points" format. When we played we came to the conclusion that whilst the idea of having mooks filling out the enemy ranks who instadie when you hit them was in principle a good idea, in practice they add sufficiently little to the combat that it wasn't really worth the time and effort fishing out tokens for them and setting them up on the map to begin with.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:54 |
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:To clarify why the above is recommended, 4e at launch had combats that took ages. At one point they realized that wasnt fun so they cut health down a lot and just made them mildly more dangerous to compensate Mostly, brutes' low attack bonuses were removed and damage was increased across the board. The "low" damage category that Soldiers used to use vanished. Elites and Solos lost their extra defense bonuses, so combat with them was less of a whiff-fest. The biggest design change was making sure Elite and Solo monsters had better tool-sets to deal with a party of 4 characters. (Previously, it really was just "more hit points" and maybe a reaction of some sort. I refer you to the 4e MM1 Purple Worm.) The only hit points that were modified at all was with solos, and that was knocking some down from 5x to 4x. Characters just had more tools to deal with those HP as, like, expertise bonuses and the like rolled out. Early monster math was real bad, particularly with Brutes and Soldiers, but monster design needed just as much refinement.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 16:59 |
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Warthur posted:How much scope is there to just drop minions from encounters? It can unbalance or shift the game in ways you might not recognize. A lot of classes has powers that key off enemies falling, and there are also classes that provide low damage over wide areas, almost specifically to counter minions. If players are aware in advance you'll probably see less controllers (except for the ones that can stunlock) and players generally avoiding the AOE options. Personally I love minions because they let players have guaranteed badass moments.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:10 |
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dwarf74 posted:This is a persistent myth, but HP were not cut down at all for the vast majority of monsters. Thank you for this clarification! I know from playing that the effect was 'game more fun' that's been hand waved as hp alone. Them realizing that hitting instead of missing is fun, and enemies that do things are more fun probably play a big part of that
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:21 |
The shark is so hungry or viscous that it launches itself at the Fighter, realizing too late that it's now beached. If you're fighting a regular fish, then fish are stupid and would probably beach themselves later anyway. "This power leads to goofy situations" is probably only an issue if you rigidly follow the description of a power instead of changing things to match the situation, or just not getting in a silly situation like fighting fish from the water's edge.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:25 |
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"Fish don't have feelings" - Kurt Cobain
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:28 |
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Admiral Joeslop posted:The shark is so hungry or viscous that it launches itself at the Fighter, realizing too late that it's now beached. The fish immediately pops up and starts flying around while you pull Water spells out of it for 45 minutes.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:38 |
theironjef posted:The fish immediately pops up and starts flying around while you pull Water spells out of it for 45 minutes. Jef, I fully respect and appreciate what you and Jon have done with your podcasts but I have to tell you that you're extremely wrong here. I already loaded up on every single spell in the game by playing cards for 30 hours. Incidentally, I always wanted a Blue Mage class back in the 3.5/4e days. Would be a nightmare, I imagine.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 17:49 |
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You know how you can tickle trout and grab them out of the water? Fighter just wiggles their fingers and the fish leaps towards them to get itself some of that.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:04 |
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Incidentally, I always wanted a Blue Mage class back in the 3.5/4e days. Would be a nightmare, I imagine. I just want a Final Fantasy ttrpg. FF1 is at least half stolen ideas from D&D, it’d be fun to see it go full circle. I know there is at least one fan made FF ttrpg, I should check it out sometime
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:10 |
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thetoughestbean posted:I just want a Final Fantasy ttrpg. FF1 is at least half stolen ideas from D&D, it’d be fun to see it go full circle. True to the genre Returners is like 1400 pages long and ridiculous.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:17 |
theironjef posted:True to the genre Returners is like 1400 pages long and ridiculous. How many different Bahamuts are there?
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:24 |
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I played and GMed FFD6 and it's pretty serviceable. It has a lot of clunk and balancing mistakes but I liked the monster creation rules. e: Here's a link if you want to try it. http://www.mediafire.com/file/yibrve1l1x65e3i/FFd6_v1.3.pdf/file Plutonis fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:29 |
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:Thank you for this clarification! I know from playing that the effect was 'game more fun' that's been hand waved as hp alone. Them realizing that hitting instead of missing is fun, and enemies that do things are more fun probably play a big part of that (It also might be partly because a bunch of people switched to the "MM3 on a Business Card" calculations which did, I think, end up with lower monster HP. But again, that's not an actual rule change.) I may do an effortpost later about the changes. They were all for the good, but this little bit of myth is extremely persistent.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:40 |
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theironjef posted:It's funny how the nerf to that power made it make less sense. Originally instead of a pull effect it forced enemies to shift towards you, and a shark wouldn't have a non-swim move speed so it wouldn't be able to. Also yeah regular animals that are in no way a threat are not valid targets for your powers so you can in fact not simply "come hither" a fish onto shore with Come And Get It (you make a really good Survival check instead).
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:44 |
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Only way I ever came up with to make a Blue Mage work is that they get a spell (/ability) list whose levels are balanced against corresponding monster levels or challenge ratings or what have you, like "this is a good ability for level X monsters to have", and when you play a Blue Mage the DM gets to add those abilities to their critters and it requires a whole lot of player/DM cooperation and trust.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:47 |
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My Lovely Horse posted:"come hither" a fish onto shore voulez-vous plage avec moi, ce soir
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 18:48 |
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Plutonis posted:I played and GMed FFD6 and it's pretty serviceable. It has a lot of clunk and balancing mistakes but I liked the monster creation rules. I've been running a FFD6 game for a few sessions now and it is a perfectly serviceable RPG. Thanks for sharing it around!
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:05 |
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I need to know more. I forget the Trollman's tortured logic, but he claimed the RAW a character in 4E would only ever be able to target themselves with their abilities, so the entire game is 'why are you hitting yourself?'
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:11 |
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My Lovely Horse posted:Come And Get It has always been a straight pull. Initially as an Effect with an attack after the pull, post-errata as a close burst attack vs. Will that pulled enemies on a hit, if I remember correctly. Post-final-errata, it became a Close Burst 3 attack vs. Will; if you hit, you pulled them 2, but only if they could end up adjacent to you. You then automatically did 1[w] damage to them if they do end up next to you. You can see how much more verisimilitudinous this is by how you can't automatically pull super-genius liches, and this errata single-handedly ended the verisimilitude front of the edition wars. (I blame Mearls.) e: To be clear, for a Fighter, this final version is arguably a buff rather than a nerf, or at worst a side-grade. The new version lets you Mark a whole room, basically, even if you can't pull them. And attacks vs. Will are much better than attacks vs. AC on like 95% of monsters, usually by +2 or better. The final damage is lower, but it's pretty negligible by mid-levels. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 9, 2019 |
# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:16 |
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dwarf74 posted:The 4e PHB version had an Effect, which automatically worked. And the wording was, indeed, clumsy in that enemies had to "shift 2" but only if they could end adjacent to you; there may have been earlier errata to turn this into a pull, before the final errata. After they got next to you, you made a 1[w]+Str attack against all enemies who ended up adjacent to you. I wonder if the Pathfinder 2e version of Come and Get It made it into the final printing.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:17 |
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https://twitter.com/jokers_trick/status/1159841517529255938?s=20
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:41 |
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dwarf74 posted:The 4e PHB version had an Effect, which automatically worked. And the wording was, indeed, clumsy in that enemies had to "shift 2" but only if they could end adjacent to you; there may have been earlier errata to turn this into a pull, before the final errata. After they got next to you, you made a 1[w]+Str attack against all enemies who ended up adjacent to you. First off, thank you from saving me from the task of taking pictures of my old-rear end book. And yeah, it's absolutely a buff, which I think is because Fighter comes from an early design iteration of 4e, where designers were still thinking that it would make sense for Defender role characters to just say "Nah, my character does damage instead."
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:44 |
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Did anyone get at Gencon get a chance to try Fiasco 2nd Edition? Interested in impressions, I'm still undecided about the Kickstarter.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:50 |
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Tekopo posted:you are missing out, the board wargames thread is great, where else can you read ASL psychos talk about their game in a mixture of boring legalese and something that you would hear from a numbers station? Hold up hold up are we calculatingon the IFT or the IIFT table?
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 19:59 |
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Huh, I really thought I had my own old-rear end book.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 20:07 |
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i bought gamma world 7e on ebay because i have a sickness. famine at far-go is weirdly expensive (someone sell me their copy?) but legion of gold is weirdly cheap. do i need the former to play with with the latter? also i should probably buy the drivethru booster cards, right? or is it ok without them? also, despite having a bunch of 4e books i have never run it. can i just lift some monsters from the dark sun creature catalog or the monster vault if i want to write my own adventures? i think gamma world might convince my group to try 4e. 5e is seriously boring me.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 20:12 |
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Old-rear end book found, gently caress me, that's some sloppy editing/playtesting. Someone let the shift version go through when there were forced movement mechanics? Small miracle this edition ever took off. I guess they did also have stuff like Dispel Magic and I shouldn't be surprised. Genuinely did not remember that, sorry folks.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 20:19 |
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My Lovely Horse posted:Old-rear end book found, gently caress me, that's some sloppy editing/playtesting. Someone let the shift version go through when there were forced movement mechanics? Small miracle this edition ever took off. Some of the weird nonsense even persisted through to the end of the edition - for example, up until the very end, a monster's Constitution score was used to calculate its hit points. Yes, in the edition which should have left out monster stats entirely, monsters got their Con score (or multiples of it for elite/solo) just like PCs did.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 20:43 |
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As a side note, because I've spent hours over the past few days trying to back-solve PF2e's monster maths, I'm pretty certain that Con does not contribute to hit points there. It does contribute to Fort saves and skill checks though. PF2e's monster maths is frustrating me a lot, because I can see that there's a formula behind some of those numbers (AC and hp, mainly) but there's enough hand-tuning on the bestiary monsters that I can't quite work out what it is.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 20:53 |
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ross the boss posted:i bought gamma world 7e on ebay because i have a sickness. famine at far-go is weirdly expensive (someone sell me their copy?) but legion of gold is weirdly cheap. do i need the former to play with with the latter? also i should probably buy the drivethru booster cards, right? or is it ok without them? Legion of Gold and Famine at Far-Go are really just big adventures with a few QOL upgrades. Famine includes 20 new archetypes and Legion 8, but Legion includes new random roll tables to help you roll up characters, including tables for if you don't have Famine. There's no reason not to just get the pdf of Famine.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 21:00 |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's a shame WOTC stopped using the book format they used for Gamma World 7e and 4e Essentials, it's the perfect format for RPG books
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 21:10 |
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Has anyone used Campaign Logger? It looks like a neat idea, but it's a subscription service with no trial period, divided between multiple sites and a subscription via an e-commerce hub I've never heard of, the creators don't answer on their Facebook and the only community link is to a dead Google+ site.
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 21:25 |
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potatocubed posted:As a side note, because I've spent hours over the past few days trying to back-solve PF2e's monster maths, I'm pretty certain that Con does not contribute to hit points there. It does contribute to Fort saves and skill checks though. I also like how they've fully embraced 5es idea of "let's take at will/encounter/daily powers and change the names to hide it" The rules would be infinitely improved if they cut out every mention of 10 minute rituals and meditation and just said "you refill your focus pool when you get a chance to catch your breath"
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 22:30 |
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 22:33 |
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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:37 |
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What fresh hell is this
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# ? Aug 9, 2019 22:37 |