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Every edition of D&D is bad. 4e is distinct for trying to actually focus its design on something, and eventually becoming pretty good.
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Aug 10, 2019 18:42
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My rule of thumb for a game like D&D is if the fighter excites me. If it doesn’t, it probably isn’t the game for me. 4e, Pathfinder 2e, and 13th Age are all really different but they all have fighters that look cool and fun to play
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Aug 10, 2019 18:59
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I think pure 4E Core is still a better game than pure 3.5 Core or at the very least doesn't have more weird edge cases and RAW-as-physics exploit opportunities.
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Aug 10, 2019 19:38
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My Lovely Horse posted:I think pure 4E Core is still a better game than pure 3.5 Core or at the very least doesn't have more weird edge cases and RAW-as-physics exploit opportunities. I'd rather play 3.5 than release 4e, at least the brokenness in 3.5 can be the fun kind when you are aware of it
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Aug 10, 2019 19:42
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Warthur posted:To an extent this is true of all editions - back to AD&D with or without Unearthed Arcana, or OD&D with or without Greyhawk - but 4E seems like the only edition where you genuinely have supporters of it saying "yeah, you need to junk the core DMG and MM and use later supplements to patch over the gaps there" - a game where its very core ended up denounced. e: I mean the only real problem with running essentials only is that the martial / caster divide got the Mearles treatment. e2: beaten on the last page Splicer fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 10, 2019 |
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Aug 10, 2019 19:57
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thetoughestbean posted:My rule of thumb for a game like D&D is if the fighter excites me. If it doesn’t, it probably isn’t the game for me. 4e, Pathfinder 2e, and 13th Age are all really different but they all have fighters that look cool and fun to play I do the same. If the 'my name is Brick, I've got a sword' guy is actually fun to play beyond 'I charge and do a full attack' that's often a good omen for game design in general, because it speaks to the devs designing things to be more active than just 'overcome DR, use big spells'.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:01
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Andrast posted:I'd rather play 3.5 than release 4e, at least the brokenness in 3.5 can be the fun kind when you are aware of it Dunno if that's a relevant comparison. Would you rather play 3.0 or 4.0? 4th edition never got a shot at a cleanup, instead someone's basement son wandered in and started breaking the game intentionally from the middle. True Portable Hole, a fighter that has no powers, etc.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:18
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theironjef posted:Dunno if that's a relevant comparison. Would you rather play 3.0 or 4.0? 4th edition never got a shot at a cleanup, instead someone's basement son wandered in and started breaking the game intentionally from the middle. True Portable Hole, a fighter that has no powers, etc. I never played 3.0 so I couldn't tell you
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Aug 10, 2019 20:19
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Andrast posted:I'd rather play 3.5 than release 4e, at least the brokenness in 3.5 can be the fun kind when you are aware of it Alright. Thanks.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:32
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The game was good at release (definitely better than 3.5) but my group soured on 4e really quickly because of the incredibly terrible adventures and the fact that the DMG did such a poor job explaining how to run the game (especially skill challenges). It's definitely a game that could have benefited from a proper 4.5 release even if it was only digital. As it was, Essentials (the RC and Monster Vault) did bring us back to the game for a little while.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:36
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the 4e DMG 2 is the only good DMG
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Aug 11, 2019 07:41
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I’ve just put up a new game that folks here might be interested in - Terra Incognita is a single-player dungeon builder, played with a deck of cards and some drawing tools, designed to make maps that’d look at home in Castlevania, Metroid, Hollow Knight etc. It was designed to make maps for my Castlevania-em-up Rhapsody of Blood, but it should work pretty well for making interesting environments for most dungeon crawlers. Here’s one of the maps I made when playtesting it, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ0FwfBr0mU If that sounds cool, you can pick it up for $5 on itch here: https://ufo-jay.itch.io/terra-incognita
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Aug 11, 2019 07:54
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Flavivirus posted:I’ve just put up a new game that folks here might be interested in - Terra Incognita is a single-player dungeon builder, played with a deck of cards and some drawing tools, designed to make maps that’d look at home in Castlevania, Metroid, Hollow Knight etc. It was designed to make maps for my Castlevania-em-up Rhapsody of Blood, but it should work pretty well for making interesting environments for most dungeon crawlers. Just got this, looks pretty neat, I'll need to find some playing cards so I can try this out(would be neat if you did an alternate version down the line for using a deck of Tarot Cards to generate maps with)
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Aug 11, 2019 11:07
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For me the biggest letdown about 4e was someone at WOTC getting terrified of piracy and dropping PDF support for the books, which made errata a million times more complicated than it needs to be, and means that if I ever lose my physical copy of Divine Power or Draconomicon 2, I'll have to burn my eyes on a horribly scanned blurry bootleg copy to check them. It's also a shame that they were very against changing core mechanics once problems with them were identified, so you had a lot of feats that were just fixes for glaring problems with the base class, giving rise to the term "feat tax". And obviously Essentials, but that's like saying the thing about Star Wars you like the least is the prequels. No poo poo.
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Aug 11, 2019 12:09
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drrockso20 posted:Just got this, looks pretty neat, I'll need to find some playing cards so I can try this out(would be neat if you did an alternate version down the line for using a deck of Tarot Cards to generate maps with) Thanks! Here's a quick and simple tarot hack: 1) Seperate out minor and major arcana, but mix The Fool and The World back into the minor deck. 2) Draw from the major deck to get an ambiance for a ward. 3) Draw from the minor deck to make your rooms: Swords count as spades (corridors), cups are hearts (dead ends), coins are clubs (crossroads) and wands are diamonds (connections to elsewhere). Instead of using the number to look up the room's feel, interpret the card's meaning. The Fool and The World make warp rooms, just like jokers in the standard version.
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Aug 11, 2019 13:32
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Lurdiak posted:For me the biggest letdown about 4e was someone at WOTC getting terrified of piracy and dropping PDF support for the books, which made errata a million times more complicated than it needs to be, and means that if I ever lose my physical copy of Divine Power or Draconomicon 2, I'll have to burn my eyes on a horribly scanned blurry bootleg copy to check them. It's also a shame that they were very against changing core mechanics once problems with them were identified, so you had a lot of feats that were just fixes for glaring problems with the base class, giving rise to the term "feat tax". they're selling pdfs now so you're safe if you ever lose your books lol
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Aug 11, 2019 16:36
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Why do I have to pay an extra tax on top of the price?
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Aug 11, 2019 16:40
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Flavivirus posted:I’ve just put up a new game that folks here might be interested in - Terra Incognita is a single-player dungeon builder, played with a deck of cards and some drawing tools, designed to make maps that’d look at home in Castlevania, Metroid, Hollow Knight etc. It was designed to make maps for my Castlevania-em-up Rhapsody of Blood, but it should work pretty well for making interesting environments for most dungeon crawlers. Looks great! Going to buy this now.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:37
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Since the superhero thread closed down, I guess I'll promote this here. I've made a lot of things for Marvel Heroic Roleplaying over the years. I really like the system. I've been posting them on this blog. I thought some people here might like them. Venomverse - A Marvel Heroic Roleplaying Event.  A fully laid-out and complete fan event for the Venomverse event.  DC Animated Heroic Roleplaying - Founding Leaguers A series of datafiles covering the founding leaguers from the DCAU or Timverse. They are all set at the beginning of Justice League Unlimited   Goku - Dragonball Heroic Roleplaying A series of datafiles covering Goku from his first appearance to Super. Cannon only. I eventually plan to do all the Z-Warriors, Bulma, and all the villains Valiant Heroic Roleplaying  Valiant Comics rebooted in 2011 with an awesome line of comics. But their roleplaying game by Catalyst studios is meh. This is a list of datafiles to cover their main heroes at the start of their journey. Currently in-complete.  X-O Manowar  Bloodshot  Archer  Armstrong  Woody Speaking of which, Valiant's RPG is GM-Less. So, I tried to port in GM-Less play to MHR. GM-Less Play in MHR And, of course, some datafiles for Marvel characters. All of them are from 2017.  Amazing Spider-Man (2015-2017) and Spider-Vehicles  Ironheart  Infamous Iron Man (Doctor Doom)  X-Men Blue Jean Grey  X-Men Blue Beast  X-Men Blue Cyclops  X-Men Blue Ice-Man  X-Men Blue Angel  X-Men Blue Wolverine  Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan)  Peter Parker (Identity Crisis)  Spinnerret (Mary Jane from Renew Your Vows)  Blue Marvel Covok fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 23:01
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I love me some MHR. I hated to see it go, as it was the first narrative game I felt like I really got, and I always love reading new datafiles.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:07
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Dawgstar posted:I love me some MHR. I hated to see it go, as it was the first narrative game I felt like I really got, and I always love reading new datafiles. Well, if you're interested, You can always check back at my blog from time-to-time to see some new files.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:11
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D&D is fine and all, but how do you feel about a two-player game based around making out with your own doppelganger???
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Aug 12, 2019 02:51
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Warthur posted:Actually, my mistake was probably using an edition I didn't play much during its lifetime and exposing my ignorance on that front. I think that's fair, and I'd say that ultimately 3e and 4e do both exist in the same sort of awkward rules limbo where new people run a very high risk of not having a good time at all without an experienced DM that's familiar with that specific edition's shortfalls. Ideally if they have a good DM, then they've patted the game into a more pleasing shape with the plethora of house rules, first party optional rules, and errata that have accumulated around either edition. While it was supported, I would say that 4e was easier to phase new players or would-be GMs into, but a lot of that has been lost with the removal of the WotC forums and the deletion of the D&Dinsider features. 5e's comparative dearth of major supplements does mean that new people and DMs aren't left feeling like there's a lot to "catch up" on.
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Aug 12, 2019 03:26
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Meinberg posted:D&D is fine and all, but how do you feel about a two-player game based around making out with your own doppelganger??? But that'd just remind me of work. (It looks great.)
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Aug 12, 2019 04:49
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Nuns with Guns posted:5e's comparative dearth of major supplements does mean that new people and DMs aren't left feeling like there's a lot to "catch up" on. "Not having endless supplement churn" isn't even a bad thing necessarily. The specific issue with 5E is that the core game itself is so anemic and sparse that a slow trickle of support feels less like an accomplishment and more like apathy.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:42
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Yeah 5e doesn't need a million supplements, but it definitely could use a steadier stream of them than it does have
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Aug 12, 2019 10:05
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I do wonder how much Critical Role is boosting the game and what 5E would be like if it weren't their game of choice (for whatever reason).
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Aug 12, 2019 11:37
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Nuns with Guns posted:5e's comparative dearth of major supplements does mean that new people and DMs aren't left feeling like there's a lot to "catch up" on. Dawgstar posted:I do wonder how much Critical Role is boosting the game and what 5E would be like if it weren't their game of choice (for whatever reason).
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Aug 12, 2019 11:48
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Angrymog posted:Why do I have to pay an extra tax on top of the price? Goodman Games are now including a .pdf download code for DriveThruRPG in the front of all physical copies they sell of their DCC/MCC/etc. core books and individual adventure modules, even adding them to reprints of their older releases. If they can make it work financially WOTC certainly can. Edit: My Lovely Horse posted:I wonder if Netflix and the Stranger Things creators are seeing a bit of WotC promo cash. mkultra419 fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 11:57
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Dawgstar posted:I do wonder how much Critical Role is boosting the game and what 5E would be like if it weren't their game of choice (for whatever reason).
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Aug 12, 2019 12:00
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It's a shame really, something PBTA would be a much better fit for their show. You can't really make "I hit for 16 damage, your go" into gripping watching.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:00
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Kai Tave posted:"Not having endless supplement churn" isn't even a bad thing necessarily. The specific issue with 5E is that the core game itself is so anemic and sparse that a slow trickle of support feels less like an accomplishment and more like apathy. It does lend some credence to the early spin that 5e was going to be a baseline structure you could bolt future rule supplements onto, like the proposed 4e-style tactical combat or other appealing aspects of prior editions, except then they never released any supplements that would cater to fans of specific 2e or 4e rules. Guess they have the DMs Guild to outsource that to now, and don't see a point in bothering further? My Lovely Horse posted:Anecdotal objection: I'm at best vaguely familiar with it but every time I read about it it's Unearthed Arcana this and something called "Volo's" that and that makes me not want to bother, along with its entire essence of being, whereas with errata I'm just like "errata, sure, makes perfect sense." The Unearthed Arcana is the new iteration of the D&D FAQ/Article section of the WotC website, like what they had available to the public in 3e and 4e. There's some half-baked rules clarifications, and public writeups of rules for new classes or class features or whatever. It has about as much respect and legitimacy as any given 3e preview article with a sample of some upcoming book, but it's also the only regular stream of errata so people who were hoping to fix problems with any given rule feel compelled to follow it. Volo's [Guide to Monsters] is the MM2 but with a fancy name.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:06
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mkultra419 posted:Goodman Games are now including a .pdf download code for DriveThruRPG in the front of all physical copies they sell of their DCC/MCC/etc. core books and individual adventure modules, even adding them to reprints of their older releases. If they can make it work financially WOTC certainly can. Just to be clear, I'm not whinging about the dollar itself, but about it adding it on afterwards after discovering that I'm in the UK. (Because our VAT laws still count ebooks as software rather than books)
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Aug 12, 2019 13:21
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Angrymog posted:(Because our VAT laws still count ebooks as software rather than books)
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Aug 12, 2019 13:25
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Gort posted:It's a shame really, something PBTA would be a much better fit for their show. You can't really make "I hit for 16 damage, your go" into gripping watching. This is why I haven't been able to get into any of the big name D&D podcasts/YouTube channels. The actual gameplay of the system isn't something that I enjoy playing and I can't think of anything more unfun than watching or listening to D&D combat.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:46
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Len posted:This is why I haven't been able to get into any of the big name D&D podcasts/YouTube channels. CR in the beginning had one dude who was that guy who forced the GM to roleplay going through his shopping list, which proves that barrel has an even lower bottom than you thought. Happily they kicked him out after a while because he was an awful person.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:02
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Gort posted:It's a shame really, something PBTA would be a much better fit for their show. You can't really make "I hit for 16 damage, your go" into gripping watching. The trick is that they cut that stuff out. Same as Harmon's Quest. These actual play web series play fast and loose with the rules.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:24
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Gort posted:It's a shame really, something PBTA would be a much better fit for their show. You can't really make "I hit for 16 damage, your go" into gripping watching. The best bits of D&D are the bits where you aren't actually playing D&D, and Critical Role is a shining example of that.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:25
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Sure, but PBTA would actually add something, rather than being something you need to subtract.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:28
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Gort posted:Sure, but PBTA would actually add something, rather than being something you need to subtract. Tbh, if I found these shows were partially scripted and they avoided those games for giving the game too much control of the story, I wouldn't be surprised.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:32
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