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Ogmius815 posted:Pizza-gate is “real”->the Russian interference story was a hoax->Bernie would have won. jesus, you are truly a diseased individual. Okay, so 1. No. 2. Where the gently caress was this skepticism for the last three years lmfao like for serious, do you require a written admission of Having Done Crimes from literally all parties involved? Because we actually have something very much like that, because these people were not expecting to have to hide their actions. If this same standard of proof was applied agnostically we could've saved a lot of loving time these last couple years! Much like Trump's primary defense to a collusion accusation was that neither him nor anyone in his employ had the cognitive capacity to collude with foreign powers, so too will a lot of democratic bundlers now have to claim they were just so inept and aloof and out of the social loop they were not aware of connections that reporters would casually joke about in archived, clearnet emails.  3. For literal years--actual, factual years--we could not discuss allegations of possible Russian interference in the Democratic primary without risking accusations of dreaded "Primary chat". We could not talk about elections-as-such but only Russian-interference-as-such because clearly the proof of that was overwhelming--its lack of consequence notwithstanding--that it was the truly gruesome stain on what was otherwise a pristine process. So now we're out of it. We're into 2020 chat now, and now that evidence is coming out about a ring of sexual slavery which implicates former and current presidents, PMs, aristocrats, entertainment personalities, people at the highest rungs of power on the left and the right in the USA, Spain, the UK, Israel, and on and on and on and on, NOW YOU REALLY WANNA GO BACK TO 2016. Now. Of all times! You're bursting at the seams to talk about the 2016 primaries right now! Man... that's.... really *convenient!*
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Aug 10, 2019 02:57
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Condiv posted:also, is "jeffrey epstein scandal == pizzagate" an actual thing to you ogmius? do you think the women coming forward claiming they were sex slaves are lying? honestly, the only people who should be truly relieved by this turn of events are the proprietors of Comet
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Aug 10, 2019 03:00
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Condiv posted:also, is "jeffrey epstein scandal == pizzagate" an actual thing to you ogmius? do you think the women coming forward claiming they were sex slaves are lying? Absolutely not. That dude seems guilty as hell. The thing that’s similar to pizzagate is trying to make the guilt stick to prominent establishment democrats on extremely shadowy ties to Epstein in a kind of wish fulfillment fantasy. Q is the same kind of thing too.
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Aug 10, 2019 03:01
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Ogmius815 posted:Absolutely not. That dude seems guilty as hell. The thing that’s similar to pizzagate is trying to tie Epstein to prominent establishment democrats on extremely shadowy ties in a kind of wish fulfillment fantasy. Q is the same kind of thing too. one of the most establishment of dems (bill clinton) hung out with epstein like crazy so it's probably not too crazy to claim that other establishment dems have ties to epstein too. i'm not certain that mark epstein was involved in his brother's child trafficking, but he seems a little entangled (benefitting from his brothers connections for real estate deals, renting out to his brother, well connected like his brother, etc). likewise, mark epstein's humpty dumpty institute seems like it would be a good source of the sex slaves jeffrey was dealing in, but again maybe he was totally unaware of what his brother was doing while at the same time benefiting from his brother's ties.
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Aug 10, 2019 03:09
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Ogmius815 posted:The thing that’s similar to pizzagate is trying to make the guilt stick to prominent establishment republicans on extremely shadowy ties to Russia in a kind of wish fulfillment fantasy. 
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Aug 10, 2019 03:09
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Condiv posted:one of the most establishment of dems (bill clinton) hung out with epstein like crazy so it's probably not too crazy to claim that other establishment dems have ties to epstein too. Epstein is on the board of directors and is not the chairman, nor a founder of the institute.
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Aug 10, 2019 03:17
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Condiv posted:also, is "jeffrey epstein scandal == pizzagate" an actual thing to you ogmius? do you think the women coming forward claiming they were sex slaves are lying? They have to be, would Bill Clinton be friends with a sexual predator? OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:The Qanon twitter thread in question then decides that a pediatrician is a pedophile because she runs a charity in Los Angeles that uses the word "Liddle" which means that it's a front because Adam Schiff represents LA and Donald Trump nicknamed Schiff "Liddle", ergo because Schiff is on the congressional advisory board for Mark Epstein's NGO this means clearly that the pediatrician is killing and raping children. Oh wow you've convinced me that using your property to traffic underage sex slaves is ok, A+ debating sir
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Aug 10, 2019 14:44
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Was Epstein murdered by Hillary Clinton? No.
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Aug 10, 2019 14:54
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https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1160172238475337728?s=20 epstein somehow managed to commit suicide despite being on suicide watch after his last attempt
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Aug 10, 2019 15:22
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Finally we can put all this awful business behind us, welp no need for all this evidence implicating political and business leaders anymore
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Aug 10, 2019 15:25
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Ogmius815 posted:Was Epstein murdered by Hillary Clinton? https://twitter.com/mmflint/status/1160198102864793600?s=21 https://twitter.com/mmflint/status/1160204374565707776?s=21
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Aug 10, 2019 16:11
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Ogmius815 posted:Was Epstein murdered by Hillary Clinton? I'm already seeing Twitter hot takes unironically saying Russia did it.
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Aug 10, 2019 16:13
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VitalSigns posted:Finally we can put all this awful business behind us, welp no need for all this evidence implicating political and business leaders anymore
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Aug 10, 2019 16:23
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glowing-fish posted:But they ignore the context of what happened, which was that in a country where rich and connected people often avoid justice, Jeffrey Epstein got caught. This is an important point, and only by ignoring the context of what was going on with Epstein, and what his arrest and (hopefully successful) prosecution mean. lmao are you ever right about anything
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Aug 10, 2019 16:39
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Main Paineframe posted:I'm already seeing Twitter hot takes unironically saying Russia did it. I love this since you’d think it would be in Russia’s interest to expose that the entire American ruling class are a bunch of pedophile goblins.
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Aug 10, 2019 17:46
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to paraphrase donald trump, i hope the russians hack and release some poo poo!! cause americans sure aren't getting to the bottom of this
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Aug 10, 2019 17:54
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https://twitter.com/swearsayer/status/1160176212699996161
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Aug 10, 2019 18:11
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottHech/status/1160180926334324737
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Aug 10, 2019 19:25
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https://mobile.twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1160214214004367365
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Aug 10, 2019 19:32
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A camera "malfunction" and the first ever "suicide" at MCC oh my god that's blatant. This is like Lee Harvey Oswald getting shot and the news media being like "woah... that guy just choked to death! Some suspect foul play"
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Aug 10, 2019 20:23
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https://mobile.twitter.com/btboxbaum/status/1160311163537776640
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Aug 11, 2019 00:38
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Aug 11, 2019 02:56
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God drat
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Aug 11, 2019 03:32
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https://mobile.twitter.com/CZEdwards/status/1160297568837832704 You’ll notice I’ve been posting a lot of tweets without my own commentary; that’s because I don’t know what to think at the moment. This thread makes some important points, though.
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Aug 11, 2019 05:06
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Willie Tomg posted:A sense of shame over how now that the Russiagate hobby horse has completely fallen through in the precise ways that skeptics have been hollering about for years Obviously 34 wasn't enough so how many arrests/guilty pleas does it take for an investigation to not "fall through?" 50? 100? Sounds like this investigation is going to have to reap some serious fruit to meet up to your high standards of legitimacy. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 08:48
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Volkerball posted:Obviously 34 wasn't enough so how many arrests/guilty pleas does it take for an investigation to not "fall through?" 50? 100? Sounds like this investigation is going to have to reap some serious fruit to meet up to your high standards of legitimacy. are you satisfied? cause if you're satisfied i'm satisfied. lets not talk about it again! we dont even have to talk about the difference between indictments and arrests or whatever, thats just going to be tedious. Mia Wasikowska fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 09:40
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When you've been reduced to yelling about how your conspiracy theory is obviously true because they got some people for lying to the investigators it's really time to wrap it up, but since both the Russia truthers and liberal media have invested too much into the story we'll unfortunately continue to be subjected to further dumbassery as they desperately scramble to save what little credibility they have left.
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Aug 11, 2019 09:46
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Anyone saying that the Trump administration for sure collaborated with the Russian government was going out on a limb to say the least given there was no direct proof from the get go, but every other aspect of the investigation was proven true. Russian intelligence sewed lies into American political discourse, and certainly pushed for Trump's election, and we learned a ton about the extent and the detail of how that happened as a result of the investigation. From the attempts to create turmoil by pushing for rallies at the same place at the same time through fake pages representing themselves as ideologues of opposing ideologies, to the hacking of the DNC emails and giving them to wiki leaks. A number of people broke laws through this process, and while a lot of them are Russians in Russia and likely won't end up serving any time, a number were in America and are facing charges for not registering as foreign lobbyists. And a bunch of dipshit advisers with 0 ethics getting pegged for loving up along the way while trying to cover their asses is a nice cherry on top. I'm satisfied in the investigation, but I'm pretty bummed about how broke brain Americans handled it. It was a perfect opportunity to discuss the effects of foreign money and influence in subverting American democracy these days, from Russia to Israel to the UAE, and how to start countering such things and combat the effects of lobbying in general post-citizens united. But as with everything in this shithole, it just became another outlet for tribal warfare between a bunch of partisan morons who are just smart enough to argue past one another, but not nearly smart enough to think for themselves, who turned the whole thing into a useless, detached slapfight. And it's looking quite likely the epstein investigation is heading for the same fate. Hopefully the justice system can make some more progress in curbing sex trafficking over the next few days and weeks and lock up some more pieces of poo poo involved in it, but as far as the American people are concerned, the whole thing is just shaping up to be a cudgel to beat Republicans or Democrats over the head with, depending on who you hate more. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 10:10
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tylersayten posted:God drat Man accostumed to billionaire lifestyle imprisoned on charges of pedophilia, rape and sex trafficking reported to be in good spirits.
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Aug 11, 2019 10:52
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Volkerball posted:I'm pretty bummed about how broke brain Americans handled it. It was a perfect opportunity to discuss the effects of foreign money and influence in subverting American democracy these days, from Russia to Israel to the UAE, and how to start countering such things and combat the effects of lobbying in general post-citizens united. That was never going to happen lol because the same figures pushing the Trump-Russia collusion conspiracy theory are owned by AIPAC, the Saudis, and private corporations. A Democrat tried to criticize other foreign influence in our politics, remember, and the same establishment figures yelling "Russia Russia Russia" screamed that Ilhan Omar was an antisemite for telling the truth about AIPAC Which has really been the whole problem from the beginning. If Democrats had reacted to Russian interference by taking a principled stand against foreign interference and corporate interference in our elections generally they could make the conversation about Trump being the corrupt sell-out he is. But they don't want to have that conversation because they want to be the corrupt sell-outs making bank, so instead they bet the house on finding direct proof of Trump conspiring with Putin and now that that didn't happen their credibility is in the toilet
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Aug 11, 2019 13:55
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Owling Howl posted:Man accostumed to billionaire lifestyle imprisoned on charges of pedophilia, rape and sex trafficking reported to be in good spirits. Yeah, under the circumstances it’s probably more evidence in favor of him being suicidal than against it.
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Aug 11, 2019 14:49
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https://twitter.com/luluramadan/status/1159950104406740992?s=21 Trump immediately blamed Clinton for Epstein’s death because he wants the narrative spotlight on Clinton rather than himself. I firmly believe there is evidence of Trump and Clinton raping kids somewhere (Epstein’s places were bugged ffs), and Trump is positioning himself to take down Clinton with him in the event the Dems/Media double down on it. Strategically, it’s almost as genius as it is diabolical. Owling Howl posted:Man accostumed to billionaire lifestyle imprisoned on charges of pedophilia, rape and sex trafficking reported to be in good spirits. Narcissists don’t kill themselves though?
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Aug 11, 2019 15:09
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Volkerball posted:Anyone saying that the Trump administration for sure collaborated with the Russian government was going out on a limb to say the least given there was no direct proof from the get go, but every other aspect of the investigation was proven true. Russian intelligence sewed lies into American political discourse, and certainly pushed for Trump's election, and we learned a ton about the extent and the detail of how that happened as a result of the investigation. From the attempts to create turmoil by pushing for rallies at the same place at the same time through fake pages representing themselves as ideologues of opposing ideologies, to the hacking of the DNC emails and giving them to wiki leaks. This is true but not in the way the Russiagaters thought it would be. The 'extent' of the Internet Research Agency's activities were completely incommensurate with the feverish claims that were relentlessly broadcast in the media. The alleged hack of the DNC would have been at least theoretically consequential to the election but since federal authorities were never even given access to the hacked server all we have to go on as far as attributions go are the statements of a private firm with a financial interest in appeasing the DNC and a noted track record of screwing up previous cyber attributions. We're left with at best a circumstantially coherent account that people now treat as proven fact. So of course folks will now repeat that it was "proven" that Russia influenced the election to some degree, even though this statement is intentionally vague and could describe anything and everything. If Russia spent one dollar on swaying the American electorate then that would technically count as election interference. If they spent a trillion dollars and personally paid off every one of Trump's debts that would also count as election interference. I doubt most Russiagaters will allow themselves to be pinned down regarding where on that spectrum their own beliefs are. So it's the perfect rhetorical fortress for Russiagaters to retreat into when all concrete claims have become unsustainable.
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Aug 11, 2019 15:43
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tylersayten posted:Narcissists don’t kill themselves though? Didn't claim he did? The idea that he was in good spirits is just bizarre.
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Aug 11, 2019 16:30
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tylersayten posted:Narcissists don’t kill themselves though? Sure they do. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/06...d=1565543723251 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5191918/
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Aug 11, 2019 18:18
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I'm in the 'wait and see what comes out' camp re: epstein, but I do find it troubling that the sockpuppet army that built the Qanon ARG seem to have had foreknowledge of epstein's terrible secrets. ???it is a mystery
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Aug 11, 2019 20:01
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Who now has all the leverage Epstein aggregated over the years on rich powerful people, would seem to be the important question.
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Aug 11, 2019 20:48
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Helsing posted:This is true but not in the way the Russiagaters thought it would be.  quote:The 'extent' of the Internet Research Agency's activities were completely incommensurate with the feverish claims that were relentlessly broadcast in the media. The alleged hack of the DNC would have been at least theoretically consequential to the election but since federal authorities were never even given access to the hacked server all we have to go on as far as attributions go are the statements of a private firm with a financial interest in appeasing the DNC and a noted track record of screwing up previous cyber attributions. We're left with at best a circumstantially coherent account that people now treat as proven fact. The justice department isn't a private firm, and it indicted a bunch of the people involved in hacking the email accounts of people involved with the clinton campaign, based on internet forensics. quote:For example, on or about March 19, 2016, LUKASHEV and his co-conspirators https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download quote:So of course folks will now repeat that it was "proven" that Russia influenced the election to some degree, even though this statement is intentionally vague and could describe anything and everything. If Russia spent one dollar on swaying the American electorate then that would technically count as election interference. If they spent a trillion dollars and personally paid off every one of Trump's debts that would also count as election interference. I doubt most Russiagaters will allow themselves to be pinned down regarding where on that spectrum their own beliefs are. So it's the perfect rhetorical fortress for Russiagaters to retreat into when all concrete claims have become unsustainable. I think it's funny that you're claiming that nobody knows the extent of Russian efforts here while simultaneously claiming that it was far less than was claimed by ~people~. We know the operating budgets of the two units involved in fancy bear, so it's a bit more concrete than "somewhere between $1 and one trillion dollars. Those budgets added up to a little over a million in US dollars per month. We know many of the accounts that were operated by the IRA by name, some of which had followers in the hundreds of thousands. We learned a lot about how this agency operated based on the sorts of things those accounts were doing. There's a ton of information on the details of all of this in the indictment for the Russians involved with the IRA. https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download And that's not getting into the whole mess with Cambridge Analytica and all of the things we've learned and are continuing to learn as a result of that investigation that could fill multiple books. It has been pretty clear from the get go that you have had 0 interest in this investigation beyond using it as a soapbox for alternative media punditry, so even pretending your "Russiagater" strawman was an accurate depiction of everyone following the story that was to the "right" of Max Blumenthal, it's not like you have any sort of high ground over it.
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Aug 11, 2019 20:51
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You will never convince me that there’s nothing shady about Epstein’s death Dunno whether or not I believe that someone went in his cell and mercd him but at the very least, the last person to see him alive left him with a sturdy sheet and a wink
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Aug 11, 2019 21:10
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tylersayten posted:Narcissists don’t kill themselves though? Narcissists kill themselves all the time, especially after dramatic losses.
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Aug 11, 2019 21:44
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