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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Collossus is canonically gay isn't he? That was Ultimate Colossus.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:49
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Collossus is canonically gay isn't he? No, just the Ultimate version.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:50
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"Only the ultimate version of collossus is gay" is a funny sentence
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Aug 12, 2019 17:51
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Ultimate Jean also invaded his privacy with respect to his queerness. So in conclusion all Jean's are bad.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:54
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I like my jeans. They fit good and make my butt look nice. 
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Aug 12, 2019 18:08
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The MCU is pretty happy to use elements of the Ultimate universe.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:09
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site posted:make the movie about illyana and laura and they become gfs at the end, go ahead and send me the cheque disney Hell ya. Illyana needs to just come out as gay as hell. Actually a movie about teen Laura escaping her lab and going looking for her kind wouid work.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:47
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Fangz posted:The MCU is pretty happy to use elements of the Ultimate universe. Maybe at the start? They've gotten pretty far away from that.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:54
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Rhyno posted:Maybe at the start? They've gotten pretty far away from that. I don't know, a lot of bits from the MCU Spider-Man have more in common with early Miles Morales than early Peter Parker. The younger May, Ned/Ganke, the shift from a sort of generic public highschool setting, etc..
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Aug 12, 2019 20:00
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Archyduchess posted:I don't know, a lot of bits from the MCU Spider-Man have more in common with early Miles Morales than early Peter Parker. The younger May, Ned/Ganke, the shift from a sort of generic public highschool setting, etc.. I'll give you Ned. They went with an even younger May than USM and I guess the school sort of but is that all you have? They went in a totally new direction with Peter being mentored by Tony Stark. From AoU forward the Ultimate influence pretty much faded away.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:29
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Lurdiak posted:It was handled so poorly. "But...But I've dated girls, doesn't that make me bise--" "NO. YOU WERE LYING TO YOURSELF. Ha ha, what even IS bisexuality, right?"
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Aug 12, 2019 21:50
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I mean yeah they're clearly not cribbing directly from the Ultimate titles (which is very good), but it also seems pretty obvious that it's one of the places (among many) they look at for inspiration (also good) despite how it ended, Ultimate X-Men was pretty decent for a lot of its run and there's no reason they can't/shouldn't draw some elements of it e: with regard to Colossus specifically, I think the more interesting question is the degree to which his future appearances will be informed by his portrayal in the Deadpool movies LGD fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 21:55
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Agaragon posted:"But...But I've dated girls, doesn't that make me bise--" Tbf dating girls when you're closeted gay doesn't make you bi
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Aug 12, 2019 22:30
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Cocks Cable posted:Ultimate Jean also invaded his privacy with respect to his queerness. So in conclusion all Jean's are bad. Let's not forget when she Freaky Friday'd Spidey and Wolverine leading to some very cringe worthy moments.
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Aug 12, 2019 23:19
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Jean did out Bobby so he'd stop sexuslly harassing Illyana, so that was a thing. Xmen should go to space in at least 1 of their movies. No time travel though, just space and maybe Excalibur level alternative realities.
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Aug 12, 2019 23:34
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Yeah happens all the time. Though Iceman is about 30 and has dated a lot of women and it's 2019 but whatever, it happens.
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Aug 13, 2019 00:13
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The narrative contrivances that were settled on to get Iceman out were deeply dumb but now that it happened I'm happy that an X-Men character with a not insubstantial profile in popular consciousness is gay. Angela and Sera and Koi Boy and Northstar are great but my in-laws and students and who knows, probably my dentist and therapist have heard of Iceman, and that kind of cultural penetration is valuable.
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Aug 13, 2019 00:26
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site posted:Tbf dating girls when you're closeted gay doesn't make you bi It doesn't make you not bi either.
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Aug 13, 2019 02:21
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Iceman being gay and having lived most of his life being so in the closet he dated women to cover it up is totally true to the experience of real gay men, and deserves to be a thing without concern trolling over bi erasure. Edit - I have also dated both men and women, and I do not consider myself bisexual. I am a lesbian through and through. Roth fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 03:07
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Roth posted:Edit - I have also dated both men and women, and I do not consider myself bisexual. I am a lesbian through and through. That's for Jean Grey to decide.
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Aug 13, 2019 03:19
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It's not that the life experience isn't valid so much as the story was written so poorly that nobody is going to think Marvel made Iceman suddenly gay absolutely not bi no siree because they were trying to take a nuanced approach or depict a more realistic closeted gay man.
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Aug 13, 2019 03:27
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yeah they could have handled that gracefully, but they didn't. if it was just bobby realizing it himself (over the course of a conversation or whatever) it'dve felt way different than a telepath going "wrong!" e: lmao i just looked and found out they had him go back in the closet as a heroic sacrifice. great. very cool eke out fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 03:32
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Well it's a good thing superhero comics lend themselves to having new writers come in that can reinterpret pre-existing characters and concepts into something way more interesting. Also a good thing that myself and Site were just responding to the idea that you have to be attracted women if you have dated women in the past, so I really don't get what you're trying to prove to me other than "comic book bad"
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Aug 13, 2019 03:40
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Lurdiak posted:It doesn't make you not bi either. This post is makes me want to literally reach through the internet and kill you, but im gonna try to be nice about it. Does Bobby identify as gay
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Aug 13, 2019 04:05
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Spacebump posted:Make MCU Angel from a super anti mutant MAGA type family that drank the koolaid until his mutation happened. Isn't that just Elixir?
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Aug 13, 2019 04:06
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site posted:This post is makes me want to literally reach through the internet and kill you, but im gonna try to be nice about it. Does Bobby identify as gay He does, yeah. Sina Grace's solo run was not my favorite thing on earth but it generally told decently down-to-earth, believable stories about a guy who definitely identifies as gay coming to terms with being out for the first time as an adult. The initial Bendis story about him coming out was dumb but he's been gay since then in stories of a much higher caliber so I'm not sure what people are fretting about. He's a gay man, full stop, and the character is better and richer for it. If you really want a bisexual male character, and who doesn't, Wolverine and Hercules are right there doing their beautiful thing.
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Aug 13, 2019 04:26
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I've been rereading some of the 90s X-Men stuff because just talking about it makes ya wanna reread it!...and what's interesting about the Iceman thing is that, the further back you go, the less of a "retcon" it actually is. Bobby's love life was just a big blank blot of angsty nothing for so long. At Scott and Jean's wedding I swear there's seriously an exchange that just sounds like "Why isn't your girlfriend here Bobby?" "Ah yes, my girlfriend Opal...yup...my total actual girlfriend who definitely exists and that I super have..." and then one time he kisses Cecilia Reyes as part of an undercover thing and that's...kinda it for the 90s. It wasn't until the 2000s that they started inundating him with, like, the exes and failed relationships that he's had up to that point and then a big chunk of the Austen years was just him being a giant rear end in a top hat that's jealous of Alex and Lorna all the time. A queer reading of Bobby's canon is totally, 100% possible. And I will actually go against the grain to say that the situation Bendis set up -- where young Bobby was out but old Bobby wasn't -- was actually super interesting. The problem is when you also have Bendis writing dialogue for the situation and so you end up with A) young Jean being completely, flippantly insensitive about the situation and B) "full gay."
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Aug 13, 2019 04:44
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Roth posted:Iceman being gay and having lived most of his life being so in the closet he dated women to cover it up is totally true to the experience of real gay men, and deserves to be a thing without concern trolling over bi erasure. It's not concern trolling you gigantic rear end in a top hat. site posted:This post is makes me want to literally reach through the internet and kill you, but im gonna try to be nice about it. Does Bobby identify as gay Bobby identified as straight, then was told he's gay. Then he tried to identify as bi, and was told again that he's gay. That's why it was bad. This is some incredibly basic poo poo and I'm being as polite about this as I can so threatening to kill me is not very productive. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 04:54
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The implication is Jean can read things he’s suppressing/denying. He’s a confused guy trying to rationalize. The line right after Jean says she doesn’t think so is him saying ‘yeah I know.’ It’s a lovely comic but it’s not erasing anything.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:16
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Lurdiak posted:It's not concern trolling you gigantic rear end in a top hat. Then what is it then? Bobby identifies as gay, but that's not enough for you because he dated women in the past like this isn't something that plenty of gay men have done.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:26
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Roth posted:Then what is it then? Bobby identifies as gay, but that's not enough for you because he dated women in the past like this isn't something that plenty of gay men have done. I mean, bi people don't really get much representation and the whole "oh, you're in denial" discourse actually comes from gay people quite a bit, so I can understand why poo poo can also read kinda bad there.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:40
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The issue, as far as I could tell, is that there were tons of bisexual readers who were offended at the prospect of Bobby's bisexuality being so casually dismissed in that outing. Considering that this fictional character has had real -- if crappy -- relationships with women before, him possibly being bisexual was a valid possibility. And remember that this was back in the day where bi-erasure was at its height, when the words bisexual were barely spoken in media, where being bisexual was still being tossed around as a stop-gap before coming out as full gay or full lesbian. Oh wait I mispoke, that wasn't back in the day, that's actually still today. And on the other side -- which, let me take a moment to emphasize, is actually my side -- you have a lot of readers saying, well actually, this in in fact how being gay is. Dating a lot of women before coming out as gay is 100% in-line with our experiences. Bobby's experience here sucks, but there wasn't anything dishonest about it and just because he dated women doesn't make him any more bi than it makes him straight. All in all the presentation of the story just made no one totally happy when -- to be frank -- it shoulda been really easy to do that. It's what happens when you leave something as pivotal as this sort of scene to a writer who, no matter how pure his intentions, just doesn't have the right sort of experience to be writing about it. And all in all I think all this hostility here right now is kinda misplaced and weird and we should probably take a step back before threatening each other or something?
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Aug 13, 2019 05:43
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Dias posted:I mean, bi people don't really get much representation and the whole "oh, you're in denial" discourse actually comes from gay people quite a bit, so I can understand why poo poo can also read kinda bad there. I agree, but nobody here is really contributing to that, and we're really just responding to the argument that because Bobby dated women previously he has to be bisexual. It's a character trait I relate to quite a bit, and having had people argue with me about my own identity because I dated a guy once or because I'm a trans woman and not cis, is a very real thing that I have experienced. It's a lovely comic, that much is obvious, but I think the critique about how Bobby must be bisexual because of his dating history reeks of casual homophobia.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:50
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Roth posted:I agree, but nobody here is really contributing to that, and we're really just responding to the argument that because Bobby dated women previously he has to be bisexual. It's a character trait I relate to quite a bit, and having had people argue with me about my own identity because I dated a guy once or because I'm a trans woman and not cis, is a very real thing that I have experienced. No one is arguing that, it's just that it's as BrianWilly said it's a lovely comic that actually manages to make everyone kinda upset. No need to say you wanna kill people because they got upset over it because it clearly is pretty bad in all senses.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:52
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Murder might be a bit much, but it was a worthless white noise post.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:55
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Aphrodite posted:Murder might be a bit much, but it was a worthless white noise post. Eh, if every post like that was worthless white noise let's just say a lot of people involved in this discussion wouldn't be around anymore.
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Aug 13, 2019 06:00
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I started watching The Boys, and it is VERY good, and it makes me VERY sad that we'll probably not be seeing Karl Urban in the MCU again. I mostly really like the casting they do in the movies, but unfortunately, that also means I'm really sad when an amazing actor does an amazing job in a role that is one-and-done. Give me more Executioner, please.
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Aug 13, 2019 06:34
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Jamesman posted:I started watching The Boys, and it is VERY good, and it makes me VERY sad that we'll probably not be seeing Karl Urban in the MCU again. Karl Urban as Nova, but he acts suspiciously similar to Judge Dredd he never takes the helmet off so nobody'll be like "wait that's executioner though"
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Aug 13, 2019 06:51
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They're casting gemma chan for a second time when she was just in captain marvel, hold out hope
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Aug 13, 2019 06:52
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Karl Urban doesn't gotta be in Marvel stuff if he doesn't wanna. I like the career choices he's been making so far.
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Aug 13, 2019 07:34
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