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Keetron posted:I got complimented last month for being a developer that reads a lot of code and then types only a tiny bit before making a PR. I did not dare to say I do all that reading to understand what I am changing as it is knowledge I still don't have after being there for about 8 months. Not knowing how everything works after 8 months is the norm, IMO. It takes a long time to get to the point where you know with confidence which parts your team's code need to be changed to accomplish some task.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:11
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Just  at this idea that there’s a job opening for every applicant or else the industry is hosed up. The whole premise is so flawed it’s not really worth engaging seriously.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:17
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School of How posted:Imagine a hospital in Aleppo, Syria. An airstrike just happened l my loving ao
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Aug 10, 2019 20:20
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Imagine four developers on the edge of a cliff. The interview process works the same way.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:30
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School of How posted:Imagine a hospital in Aleppo, Syria. An airstrike just happened, and a bunch of civilians were badly injured. So is this before or after you contributed to the codebase?
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Aug 10, 2019 20:35
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I wanted to get in a relationship, and I asked someone out. They said sure, let's start with a date. I said if we go through the effort of going on a date, will you at least sleep with me after and possibly move in together? They said no. I keep behaving that way with all the folks I asked out, and I keep having a very hard time finding my soulmate. 8 years ago I met someone who was plain content that I weren't a violent offender, and I can't figure out why this no longer is enough today. I believe the dating market is oversaturated, that people are too difficult, and I am here to convince you it is actually so.
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Aug 10, 2019 21:45
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MononcQc posted:They said sure, let's start with a date. I said if we go through the effort of going on a date, will you at least sleep with me after and possibly move in together? That's not equivalent. In a dating situation, the woman can force the guy to jump through hoops before the next date, but the guy can also make the woman jump through hoops too. Neither side has an advantage over the other. This is because 50% of the population is male, and 50% of the population is female. In an interview situation, if I ask the company to do for me an 8-hour take home project, what do you think the odds are they they will complete it for me? Hell no they won't complete it. This is because the company has the advantage since there are more programmers than there are jobs for programmers.
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Aug 10, 2019 22:26
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School of How posted:That's not equivalent. In a dating situation, the woman can force the guy to jump through hoops before the next date, but the guy can also make the woman jump through hoops too. Neither side has an advantage over the other. This is because 50% of the population is male, and 50% of the population is female. The company is the one with the money. You need to prove your value to them in order to get paid. Secondarily, there's enough open reqs out there for you to be picky about which company you work for provided you are able to prove your value. It's really not hard to understand.
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Aug 10, 2019 22:35
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rotor posted:Probably the first thing is to figure out what you want. Where do you want to be next year? In 5 years? Your mentor can just give you random advice but answering "how do I achieve X" is gonna be something you'll get better answers to. That is kind of what I was hoping for direction on. It is hard to make a choice when I don't have a clear view of the options (as they exist at this company). I could see myself going after any of architect, eng manager, or maybe even heading product side but I really don't know what existence is like down those roads.
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Aug 10, 2019 22:50
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Paolomania posted:That is kind of what I was hoping for direction on. It is hard to make a choice when I don't have a clear view of the options (as they exist at this company). I could see myself going after any of architect, eng manager, or maybe even heading product side but I really don't know what existence is like down those roads. these are all wildly different career paths and I would not choose one based on what career options are available at your current company.
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Aug 11, 2019 02:36
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A 45-minute online screen can tell you if the person is worth interviewing. An 8-hour assignment is rolling the dice on getting usable code for free, while digging for only candidates with no other prospects.
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Aug 11, 2019 04:28
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Guinness posted:Please please keep doing this. The worst thing is people just jumping right in to something they don't understand and making an overconfident mess of it. In an existing codebase you're likely reading 10x-100x more code than you are writing. It never really goes away, you just get a bit quicker at it as you gain familiarity. People I work with have heard this sentiment, so I've been getting some feedback that my PRs are too big (on an entirely new codebase).
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Aug 11, 2019 04:28
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No Pants posted:People I work with have heard this sentiment, so I've been getting some feedback that my PRs are too big (on an entirely new codebase). The ultimate tier is well-researched changes so small, they make the repo smaller. The famed Jeff Dean has deleted twice as many lines as he has added.
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Aug 11, 2019 04:43
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Stinky_Pete posted:The ultimate tier is well-researched changes so small, they make the repo smaller. The famed Jeff Dean has deleted twice as many lines as he has added. A PR that adds functionality with a net reduction in LOC is a nice feeling. I don’t usually have or take the time because I’m lazy and bad, but occasionally...very occasionally...ah, it feels good to do good work. Clocking out at 5 to cook dinner and drink beer also feels good and is easier, though.
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Aug 11, 2019 04:51
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No Pants posted:People I work with have heard this sentiment, so I've been getting some feedback that my PRs are too big (on an entirely new codebase). If it's new code and nobodys really depending on it yet then I think it's totally fine to play it a bit fast and loose with the change volume
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Aug 11, 2019 05:01
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Progressive JPEG posted:If it's new code and nobodys really depending on it yet then I think it's totally fine to play it a bit fast and loose with the change volume yeah I was just venting about a career where there's a lot of good advice that turns into arbitrary rules once the context is gone.
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Aug 11, 2019 05:18
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Guinness posted:LOC written/changed is a largely useless metric. I would say worse than useless. Anybody paying attention to that metric is going to be making warped decisions in light of it.
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Aug 11, 2019 21:13
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As a big fan of code generation, I am perfectly ok with my salary being tied to number of line changed or something equally stupid.
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Aug 11, 2019 21:30
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Oh hey, I just got one of those HackerX invites. I kind of want to go just to see what the people / companies are like.
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Aug 12, 2019 02:49
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:As a big fan of code generation, I am perfectly ok with my salary being tied to number of line changed or something equally stupid. Well yeah, it's that old 90's-era Dilbert from before he went insane - 'I'm gonna write me a minibus!'
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Aug 12, 2019 13:00
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Does anyone have advice on dealing with the ego challenges that come from having younger coworkers leveled higher than you? It’s really just a stupid ego thing, I have no reason to think anyone at any part of this has made a bad decision, but knowing that doesn’t make it just go away.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:55
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Secrets To Winning At Office Politics has been really helpful for me on overcoming my own emotional responses and a bunch of other stuff
spiritual bypass fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 22:19
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raminasi posted:Does anyone have advice on dealing with the ego challenges that come from having younger coworkers leveled higher than you? It’s really just a stupid ego thing, I have no reason to think anyone at any part of this has made a bad decision, but knowing that doesn’t make it just go away. Ego challenges like they think they're hot poo poo because they're younger and "above" you, or it being an issue of ego that you need to get over?
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Aug 12, 2019 22:43
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Doh004 posted:Ego challenges like they think they're hot poo poo because they're younger and "above" you, or it being an issue of ego that you need to get over? The latter.
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Aug 13, 2019 00:46
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raminasi posted:Does anyone have advice on dealing with the ego challenges that come from having younger coworkers leveled higher than you? It’s really just a stupid ego thing, I have no reason to think anyone at any part of this has made a bad decision, but knowing that doesn’t make it just go away. Find out how the 24 year old manager got promoted to his position. Most likely he got there because he's buddies with the CEO, or he's buddies with one of the CEO's buddies. In other words, he got there by networking. If that's the case, then it's likely that his mindset is that success only comes via networking, and the only way to move ahead in that situation is to network with him. Find out what his interests are, and then pretend those are also your interests. Try to talk with him at least once a day. Make sure to always laugh at his jokes. Bosses always give preferential treatment to their best friends.
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Aug 13, 2019 01:16
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"On the basis of nothing, assume this person and the person you work for are dicks, so be a dick, this will definitely not backfire"
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Aug 13, 2019 01:26
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As with all things in the oldie thread take what How says and do the opposite.
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Aug 13, 2019 01:35
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apseudonym posted:As with all things in the oldie thread take what How says and do the opposite. Here I have to disagree, it is just that he answers the wrong question. raminasi posted:Does anyone have advice on dealing with the ego challenges that come from having younger coworkers leveled higher than you? It’s really just a stupid ego thing, I have no reason to think anyone at any part of this has made a bad decision, but knowing that doesn’t make it just go away. Now that I hit 42 last week and I see more and more colleagues that are of a lesser age in higher ranked positions, I found solitude in reminding myself of the following: - It appears to require different skills than the one I have to rise ranks. By now I have no idea how to acquire those skills and I tried a ton already. I am happy I tried. - The work I do is fulfilling and pays handsomely while not leaving me exhausted at the end of the day. With small kids this is a great benefit. - Overcoming ego, basically jealousy, and being able to concede to the fact that other perform better than you is a great feeling. Compliment those around you if they perform well, everyone, at all levels. - It is a stupid meme but articulates the feeling I have many days so well:  ps: pick up a hobby such as cross-stitching or drawing or something creative that will create something tangible. It will make you feel better and you can still be a goonlord by stitching memes or harry potter stuff.
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Aug 13, 2019 06:54
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raminasi posted:The latter. It's a pretty coldly logical approach - but do consider that people younger than you both grew up more absorbed into technology but also with richer and more valuable resources available to them. If they're rising fast, it's possible that they simply got a better start. I mean, it's not universally that and nepotism or better social networking may be a part of it as well. But I first got interested in coding at a time when the only compiler available for the family computer cost a prohibitive amount so I *couldn't meaningfully code* until years later - when you could get a pared down version of Visual Studio with purchase of some books about C++. When there was an error, there was no StackOverflow, and since it was working in C++ - the code liked to blow up a lot because hands didn't get held. Nowadays you can get interested in coding at 9, have an infinite amount of resources, tutorials, answers, and libraries to build the Python app of your dreams and have all sorts of safety and comfort baked into the process. Equal passion, equal commitment, but the extra time spent learning how to build rather than how to debug esoteric errors on your own without help - it adds up and more realistically matches 'the modern work environment' when it comes to development.
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Aug 13, 2019 11:29
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Cuntpunch posted:It's a pretty coldly logical approach - but do consider that people younger than you both grew up more absorbed into technology but also with richer and more valuable resources available to them. If they're rising fast, it's possible that they simply got a better start. I'm 42. When I was 9 I could write the BASIC app of my dreams with as much safety and comfort was available at the time; no internet, but there were plenty of 'how to code' books with example source in them and so forth  My first proper native-code compiler cost £50 and, granted, it was for Modula-2 because a C compiler for the Atari ST cost twice as much but that wasn't, like, a ridiculously unachievable barrier. It's easy to be all like 'kids have it so easy these days' but it wasn't total stone knives and bearskins for anyone who was around for about the ZX Spectrum then on.
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Aug 13, 2019 12:25
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feedmegin posted:I'm 42. When I was 9 I could write the BASIC app of my dreams with as much safety and comfort was available at the time; no internet, but there were plenty of 'how to code' books with example source in them and so forth I am 42 and learned to really code about 5 years ago. Before that I meddled with BASIC (nothing ever worked) and later with HTML/PHP but that was minor editing of CMS software I used to run some site. Over the last decade the tooling has improved so dramatically that writing complex stuff is really, really easy compared to the old days where you needed so much endure and persistence only to wade through books and error messages. Yes, kids today have it easier, but so do we and there is no good reason to subject those who have it easy now to the horrors of yesteryear.
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Aug 13, 2019 13:20
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I've transitioned from routinely being the youngest member of a team to now among the oldest and what's mostly worked for me along the way is trying to remember what it was like for me having no mentors, not much support, but a fair bit of time to tinker around and explore when people weren't very interested in my opinions just because of seniority reasons. I do my best to try to not be some stodgy old-timer but helping people appreciate what they do have and to encourage creativity by trying something completely random and fun. Also seriously, decent CEOs probably surround themselves with a lot of people actually smarter than them - that doesn't make them more qualified to be CEO. As we've explored in this thread for the past 5+ pages, being skilled in engineering doesn't necessarily make you more effective as an engineer. Attaching your worth in any way to arbitrary capitalist measures like your level or company or compensation is not a road to mental wellness I've ever observed. I think it's completely dependent upon personalities involved is what I'm getting at. It's different if the younger person is cocky and really skilled than if the person is pretty humble and sort of like a Jeff Dean. I don't see this the same as in sports & entertainment where aging out can be actually bad.
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Aug 13, 2019 13:34
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Keetron posted:Here I have to disagree, it is just that he answers the wrong question. This is excellent advice. The one thing I'd add is that one of the best cures for jealousy is confidence in yourself and your own path. If you figure out what you want your career to look like and have a sense for what your progression can look like, it makes it easier to watch others follow their own path and succeed. E: necrobobsledder posted:I've transitioned from routinely being the youngest member of a team to now among the oldest and what's mostly worked for me along the way is trying to remember what it was like for me having no mentors, not much support, but a fair bit of time to tinker around and explore when people weren't very interested in my opinions just because of seniority reasons. I do my best to try to not be some stodgy old-timer but helping people appreciate what they do have and to encourage creativity by trying something completely random and fun. More excellent advice right here.
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Aug 13, 2019 13:39
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Keetron posted:ps: pick up a hobby such as cross-stitching or drawing or something creative that will create something tangible. It will make you feel better and you can still be a goonlord by stitching memes or harry potter stuff. I took up glassblowing for a while. It's a great exercise in developing patience, calm, and focus, because the results of a screwup range from "I got too eager too soon and melted my piece" to "hey honey, gonna be late for dinner, btw come see me in the burn unit." It also checks the goonlord box because giggling every time you year "glory hole" never, never gets old
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Aug 13, 2019 14:26
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raminasi posted:Does anyone have advice on dealing with the ego challenges that come from having younger coworkers leveled higher than you? It’s really just a stupid ego thing, I have no reason to think anyone at any part of this has made a bad decision, but knowing that doesn’t make it just go away. Pull up some of your high school classmates on Facebook and witness the path not taken
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Aug 13, 2019 14:51
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kitten smoothie posted:I took up glassblowing for a while. It's a great exercise in developing patience, calm, and focus, because the results of a screwup range from "I got too eager too soon and melted my piece" to "hey honey, gonna be late for dinner, btw come see me in the burn unit." hehe, blowing. Also: exercise will make you feel better. Do something that needs counting and giggle every time the number 69 comes up.
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Aug 13, 2019 15:21
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I took up pottery awhile back, and find that it's a great way to decompress. You can sit down at a wheel with a lump of clay and no idea what it's going to turn into, and just explore and play with shapes. If it doesn't work out, just let the clay dry out a bit and start over.
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Aug 13, 2019 15:25
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Keetron posted:Also: exercise will make you feel better. Do something that needs counting and giggle every time the number 69 comes up. Yeah, this too. I work from home and I bought one of those Peloton bikes not long ago. I now just block out 45 mins of gently caress-you time on my calendar so I can hop on it and ride, especially after meetings that I know will put me in a bad way. I forgot how refreshing it is to sweat out a shitload during the middle of the work day, then take an ice cold shower and head back to the desk. Incidentally, it's an unwritten convention at my company that it's totally okay to block out gently caress-you time on the calendar. Folks will just put an hour here or there with "do not book" and we respect it without questioning whether it's so you want to go dark and work, or why. It took me a while to not feel guilty doing it, but now I have absolutely zero compunction about it.
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Aug 13, 2019 16:02
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I marked 12:20 – 1:05 every day as a private event marked "Tentative" to stop my boss scheduling stuff that bumps right up against my lunchtime and it worked fine for a few months until yesterday, when Boss sent an invite for 1:00 – 2:00.  Now I have to decide whether it's worth it to click "Propose New Time" and suggest starting at 1:15 instead.
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Aug 13, 2019 16:43
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CPColin posted:I marked 12:20 – 1:05 every day as a private event marked "Tentative" to stop my boss scheduling stuff that bumps right up against my lunchtime and it worked fine for a few months until yesterday, when Boss sent an invite for 1:00 – 2:00. The weird thing in my experience is that supposing a certain level of seniority - dodging meetings or proposing new times seems to be met with more of a "he's a busy guy doing a lot of work" rather than "he's avoiding meetings or being greedy with his time." But I also interact with a lot of swedes, to whom the 1130-1230 hour is basically a sacrosanct period in which *nothing* shall happen without three months of forewarning.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:28
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